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Thread: Will 2014-2020 be as successful as 2006-2012 for Team USA?

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    Senior Member NorCal's Avatar
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    Default Will 2014-2020 be as successful as 2006-2012 for Team USA?

    Sorry for the long post, this is something I was thinking about today.......

    Team USA has put a nice bow on its 'Coach K/Jerry Colangelo' era with a record of 62-1 overall, 3 golds and 1 bronze. It feels like the USA will be moving into a new era and so my question is, will these next two World Cups and Olympics be as successful as the Coach K ones?

    My two cents- there are a lot of variables obviously with attempting to project that far out. However, my feeling is we will still be extremely successful and will/should be favored in every tournament for the next few years at least but matching the 62-1 record will be difficult. My reasoning:

    1) We are in a second golden age of talent for our team, this generation of players that graduated high school from '02 to '07 are great- Lebron, Wade, Howard, Paul, Bosh, Durant, Rose, Love, Carmelo, D-Will, Eric Gordon, Igoudala etc. Being a pretty avid follower of recruiting rankings and the AAU/high school circuit I just don't see quite as much talent coming through the pipeline right now. The '08 and on classes haven't been bad by my measure but they aren't quite at the same level and that's including the '13 and '14 classes in high school right now.

    2) Our core guys from the Coach K era- Lebron, Kobe, Carmelo, Paul, Wade really bought into the idea of playing multiple times with Team USA in order to establish more (a trend that was not as true back in the 90s and early 2000s)

    3) There is a decent amount of luck involved in going 62-1. We've had a number of games that were closely contested that could have easily been losses.

    The counter arguments to my points:

    1) Even though the players coming up may not be quite as talented as our current generation of players, our current guys- particularly Lebron, Howard, Paul, Durant, Rose and Love may be back in 2014 and/or 2016 to give a veteran presence while we integrate a new generation. Also, there may be a Chris Paul or Dwyane Wade out there- two guys who weren't near the top of their high school classes- they just haven't 'blown up' yet.

    2) Colangelo may have permanently made it cool to play for Team USA again and our subsequent generation of superstars may follow in the footsteps of Lebron and Co. by playing multiple times with Team USA over the course of many years.

    3) Luck favors the prepared and we are scouting and arming our teams with more helpful info about our opposition than ever before. Plus, we have resources that other nations don't have in this area.

    Other points: FIBA rules are slowly moving more towards NBA rules which favors our team, also, many of the other powerhouses- Argentina and Spain most notably- will most likely be on the decline as their key players are in their 30s.

    So what do you guys think- will we see success at the same rate as the Coach K era?

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    1) It's actually only the HS classes of 06-08 that were the Golden Age. The years before them were full of busts with guys like LeBron being the exception. Kids from 06-08 grew up different than kids before them did or kids after them will. Something about them made them the exception to every rule. They contributed as rookies and even starred if they were given a chance, improved quicker than most do in the NBA, and the majority of the players who got drafted in those years not only can put up big numbers when given the chance but they play the game the right way. It's not the hip hop generation.

    It's not just basketball. Kids from those high school classes are just different in general. I don't want to get into a long thing about it but a lot of contributing factors came together to make them who they are as a whole.

    Whether we see continued success or not will depend on whether or not the kids coming up now mature the way those before them did. I highly doubt you're going to get guys like Blake Griffin, John Wall, etc to play defense or do the right thing for the team. Even Durant has a little bit of immaturity to him but he just needed to mostly score this Olympics so his flaws didn't come out. There is currently nobody to replace LeBron and Kobe, and that's a problem.

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    Senior Member durden_tyler's Avatar
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    Will 2014-2020 be as successful as 2006-2012 for Team USA?

    Yes basically because there's no all-world talent at the level of LeBron/Durant (so to speak the standard) from the other national teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHBB View Post
    1) It's actually only the HS classes of 06-08 that were the Golden Age. The years before them were full of busts with guys like LeBron being the exception. Kids from 06-08 grew up different than kids before them did or kids after them will. Something about them made them the exception to every rule. They contributed as rookies and even starred if they were given a chance, improved quicker than most do in the NBA, and the majority of the players who got drafted in those years not only can put up big numbers when given the chance but they play the game the right way. It's not the hip hop generation.

    It's not just basketball. Kids from those high school classes are just different in general. I don't want to get into a long thing about it but a lot of contributing factors came together to make them who they are as a whole.

    Whether we see continued success or not will depend on whether or not the kids coming up now mature the way those before them did. I highly doubt you're going to get guys like Blake Griffin, John Wall, etc to play defense or do the right thing for the team. Even Durant has a little bit of immaturity to him but he just needed to mostly score this Olympics so his flaws didn't come out. There is currently nobody to replace LeBron and Kobe, and that's a problem.
    Did you not see Durant consistantly make defensive plays every game?? He even did it in the 2010 WC. How many deflection, pokes, blocks and intimidations did Durant have. I've watched most US games in this tourney twice. Durants defense was great. His long arms in the passing lanes caused teams problems every game I watched. I'd go as far as saying Durant's defense in the gold medal game was a significant contributing factor to the win. From memory I'd say he had 2 blocks, 2 steals, 3 deflections and several great defensive plays.

    Also your underating the generation that has Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Stephen Curry. Just on charecter and commitment to improving alone I'd say USA has a chance against any team with the afformentioned players.

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    So long as playing for the National Team is the cool thing to do, and all credit to Colangelo and the players who made it so, then there will be the chance of dominance.

    2014 will be very interesting, the team we send has a high chance of being weaker than this team, while it would be surprising if Spain's stars didn't show up for their own world cup. History would also be on the line as no team has ever repeated as Olympic champions and World Champions, in other words won four straight global tournaments.
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    I for one am very excited for the probable names in Team USA's 2014 squad. Colangelo stated that several names from the USA Select Team are in consideration for the said year / tourney. Leading the charge is Kyrie Irving, who the US almost lost to Australia.

    Also, the prospect of welcoming back Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, James Harden and Anthony Davis Jr. is certainly a morale booster wherein they have earned a summer off next year.

    Then Team USA could welcome back Derrick Rose alongside hopefuls like Lamarcus Aldridge.
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    I think the succes of team USA 2014-2020 will depend on the new generation of international teams because the US will remain more or less on the same level. The succes of Argentina and Spain are based on veterans like Gasol, Navarro and Ginobili. Sure they have a lot of other decent teammates who can beat most good teams, but these players essentially make the difference for these powerhouses. That said, it seems that their good years are probably over, which means that Argentina and Spain won't be regular medal candidates anymore. The first signs of their decline are already obvious, Argentina did not win a medal this year and Spain had a really hard time making the finals. Without Gasol they wouldn't have made it, just like in 2010.

    Russia, Greece and Serbia are teams which have the rosters to become better and dominate in Europe. IMO they will be the biggest threats for team USA during the coming four years. After that it's hard to tell. But it's a good thing that many federations are forced to change their rosters because of aging players. Internationall basketball needs to give the next generations a chance. Looking at how basketball is evolving globally, logic says that they will be better than the previous generations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHBB View Post
    1) It's actually only the HS classes of 06-08 that were the Golden Age. The years before them were full of busts with guys like LeBron being the exception. Kids from 06-08 grew up different than kids before them did or kids after them will. Something about them made them the exception to every rule. They contributed as rookies and even starred if they were given a chance, improved quicker than most do in the NBA, and the majority of the players who got drafted in those years not only can put up big numbers when given the chance but they play the game the right way. It's not the hip hop generation.

    It's not just basketball. Kids from those high school classes are just different in general. I don't want to get into a long thing about it but a lot of contributing factors came together to make them who they are as a whole.

    Whether we see continued success or not will depend on whether or not the kids coming up now mature the way those before them did. I highly doubt you're going to get guys like Blake Griffin, John Wall, etc to play defense or do the right thing for the team. Even Durant has a little bit of immaturity to him but he just needed to mostly score this Olympics so his flaws didn't come out. There is currently nobody to replace LeBron and Kobe, and that's a problem.
    I think you are mistaken about the Golden Generation, especially if we are talking about which high school classes have contributed players to Team USA. The '07 class is great- Rose, Gordon, Griffin, Love- a very strong class. But '06 only gave us Durant and '08 is nothing special. Lebron, Carmelo, Paul, Williams, Bosh, Howard and a number of other NBA stars all graduated between '02-'05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    So long as playing for the National Team is the cool thing to do, and all credit to Colangelo and the players who made it so, then there will be the chance of dominance.

    2014 will be very interesting, the team we send has a high chance of being weaker than this team, while it would be surprising if Spain's stars didn't show up for their own world cup. History would also be on the line as no team has ever repeated as Olympic champions and World Champions, in other words won four straight global tournaments.
    Yeah, I have this feeling that 2014 if going to be a very difficult tournament for us to win. Spain will be extremely motivated to win and I still believe most of our guys from the '12 team will not commit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    I think the succes of team USA 2014-2020 will depend on the new generation of international teams because the US will remain more or less on the same level. The succes of Argentina and Spain are based on veterans like Gasol, Navarro and Ginobili. Sure they have a lot of other decent teammates who can beat most good teams, but these players essentially make the difference for these powerhouses. That said, it seems that their good years are probably over, which means that Argentina and Spain won't be regular medal candidates anymore. The first signs of their decline are already obvious, Argentina did not win a medal this year and Spain had a really hard time making the finals. Without Gasol they wouldn't have made it, just like in 2010.

    Russia, Greece and Serbia are teams which have the rosters to become better and dominate in Europe. IMO they will be the biggest threats for team USA during the coming four years. After that it's hard to tell. But it's a good thing that many federations are forced to change their rosters because of aging players. Internationall basketball needs to give the next generations a chance. Looking at how basketball is evolving globally, logic says that they will be better than the previous generations.
    I agree 100% I also think Brazil, France and Turkey will be strong in the next 4 years.

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    Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis come to mind. And Durant and Love are still young, I would expect a lot from them, especially from Durant, he has potential to be the world MVP IMHO.
    Also, would Rajon Rondo come aboard this boat? This would be a terrific reinforcement. But a lot will depend on how the team will be run from now onwards, perhaps more on this part than on the player part, I guess.


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    Quote Originally Posted by VIRIATO View Post
    Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis come to mind. And Durant and Love are still young, I would expect a lot from them, especially from Durant, he has potential to be the world MVP IMHO.
    Also, would Rajon Rondo come aboard this boat? This would be a terrific reinforcement. But a lot will depend on how the team will be run from now onwards, perhaps more on this part than on the player part, I guess.


    Paulo
    If my memory serves me, Rondo had bad feelings for Team USA after being cut from the 2010 WC team (and he might have had some issues while with the team if I remember right). So it doesn't look like he'll ever represent us which is too bad, I think he's underrated.

    I don't see Durant and Love committing to the 2014 team because they already won a WC. The three guys you listed though- Griffin, Irving and Davis- I think those guys will be our main pieces for the 2014 team. I'm just guessing at a roster. This is based off of the history that USA guys have shown of not participating at a WC after having played in one previously or if having played at the previous Olympics. The roster is also made up of many guys that played for the USA select team which 'feeds' into our national team:

    PGs- Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Jrue Holiday
    Wings- Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson
    Bigs- Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, Derrick Favors

    I know that's not a full team so here are some wildcards for the team:

    James Harden- like Davis, did not play much on Team USA this year and is very young. He doesn't have a WC so he may want to go for one. If so, he'd probably be a starter on this team.

    Lamarcus Aldridge- he may be too old or not able to make the 2016 team so this may be his final chance to make a USA team. If he did play he would provide veteran leadership

    Demarcus Cousins- he may make the team but as always, he has the attitude 'issue' that surfaced a little bit at the Team USA v Select Team scrimmages. I'm not sure the '14 team would take more than 3 bigs so he would be out if Davis/Griffin/Favors made the team, he'd probably be behind Aldridge too, I'm guessing

    Eric Gordon/Rudy Gay/Stephen Curry- three guys that played on the 2010 team but aren't quite at the level to make an Olympics team. If they enjoyed playing in 2010 and are healthy in 2014 they may try out. Given the roster I had above, we could use their shooting.

    Greg Monroe/Kenneth Faried/Ryan Anderson/Roy Hibbert/Javale McGee/Jeremy Lin- these guys would all fit well with a Team USA but weren't a part of the select squad.

    Rookies- Damian Lillard/Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/Bradley Beal- 3 talented guys who I think will be solid contributors this year and beyond in the NBA, if they developed well over the next 2 years they could be on the 2014 team
    Last edited by NorCal; 08-14-2012 at 06:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by durden_tyler View Post
    Will 2014-2020 be as successful as 2006-2012 for Team USA?

    Yes basically because there's no all-world talent at the level of LeBron/Durant (so to speak the standard) from the other national teams.
    Neither does the US. There's nobody to replace LeBron, not even Durant, and not Kobe either. There's a ton of "maybes" but so many immature players with attitude and entitlement problems these days that they may never grow up enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raze Lupin View Post
    Did you not see Durant consistantly make defensive plays every game?? He even did it in the 2010 WC. How many deflection, pokes, blocks and intimidations did Durant have. I've watched most US games in this tourney twice. Durants defense was great. His long arms in the passing lanes caused teams problems every game I watched. I'd go as far as saying Durant's defense in the gold medal game was a significant contributing factor to the win. From memory I'd say he had 2 blocks, 2 steals, 3 deflections and several great defensive plays.

    Also your underating the generation that has Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Stephen Curry. Just on charecter and commitment to improving alone I'd say USA has a chance against any team with the afformentioned players.
    He didn't lock down anybody, which LeBron does night in and night out. Anybody can make defensive plays when they've got the skill and athleticism Durant has. That's not "great" defense. Great defense is what LeBron and Iguodala play.

    That's the generation I'm talking about. It's my generation. Durant's from the '06 class. Westbrook from the '07, Love from the '06, Rose from the '07, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CKR13 View Post
    I for one am very excited for the probable names in Team USA's 2014 squad. Colangelo stated that several names from the USA Select Team are in consideration for the said year / tourney. Leading the charge is Kyrie Irving, who the US almost lost to Australia.

    Also, the prospect of welcoming back Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, James Harden and Anthony Davis Jr. is certainly a morale booster wherein they have earned a summer off next year.

    Then Team USA could welcome back Derrick Rose alongside hopefuls like Lamarcus Aldridge.
    Kyrie Irving should be playing for Australia though, shouldn't he?

    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
    I think you are mistaken about the Golden Generation, especially if we are talking about which high school classes have contributed players to Team USA. The '07 class is great- Rose, Gordon, Griffin, Love- a very strong class. But '06 only gave us Durant and '08 is nothing special. Lebron, Carmelo, Paul, Williams, Bosh, Howard and a number of other NBA stars all graduated between '02-'05.
    Completely wrong there.

    06, 07, and 08 produced the least amount of busts in probably a decade. You keep mentioning a handful of players out of multiple classes as proof those classes were great? They are the EXCEPTION. Only Durant? '08 nothing special? You can't be serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raze Lupin View Post
    I agree 100% I also think Brazil, France and Turkey will be strong in the next 4 years.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by VIRIATO View Post
    Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis come to mind. And Durant and Love are still young, I would expect a lot from them, especially from Durant, he has potential to be the world MVP IMHO.
    Also, would Rajon Rondo come aboard this boat? This would be a terrific reinforcement. But a lot will depend on how the team will be run from now onwards, perhaps more on this part than on the player part, I guess.


    Paulo
    Rondo would do absolutely nothing for Team USA. He makes dumb plays, is good offensively yes but he plays no defense and only goes for steals. He is exactly what I'm talking about when I refer to immature players. A lot of players from his age group are immature for whatever reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
    If my memory serves me, Rondo had bad feelings for Team USA after being cut from the 2010 WC team (and he might have had some issues while with the team if I remember right). So it doesn't look like he'll ever represent us which is too bad, I think he's underrated.

    I don't see Durant and Love committing to the 2014 team because they already won a WC. The three guys you listed though- Griffin, Irving and Davis- I think those guys will be our main pieces for the 2014 team. I'm just guessing at a roster. This is based off of the history that USA guys have shown of not participating at a WC after having played in one previously or if having played at the previous Olympics. The roster is also made up of many guys that played for the USA select team which 'feeds' into our national team:

    PGs- Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Jrue Holiday
    Wings- Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson
    Bigs- Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, Derrick Favors

    I know that's not a full team so here are some wildcards for the team:

    James Harden- like Davis, did not play much on Team USA this year and is very young. He doesn't have a WC so he may want to go for one. If so, he'd probably be a starter on this team.

    Lamarcus Aldridge- he may be too old or not able to make the 2016 team so this may be his final chance to make a USA team. If he did play he would provide veteran leadership

    Demarcus Cousins- he may make the team but as always, he has the attitude 'issue' that surfaced a little bit at the Team USA v Select Team scrimmages. I'm not sure the '14 team would take more than 3 bigs so he would be out if Davis/Griffin/Favors made the team, he'd probably be behind Aldridge too, I'm guessing

    Eric Gordon/Rudy Gay/Stephen Curry- three guys that played on the 2010 team but aren't quite at the level to make an Olympics team. If they enjoyed playing in 2010 and are healthy in 2014 they may try out. Given the roster I had above, we could use their shooting.

    Greg Monroe/Kenneth Faried/Ryan Anderson/Roy Hibbert/Javale McGee/Jeremy Lin- these guys would all fit well with a Team USA but weren't a part of the select squad.

    Rookies- Damian Lillard/Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/Bradley Beal- 3 talented guys who I think will be solid contributors this year and beyond in the NBA, if they developed well over the next 2 years they could be on the 2014 team
    Rondo got cut because he's awful. He played like crap and tried to lie and say he had a personal reason but he got cut flat out. How can you call the most overrated player in the NBA underrated? They talk about him EVERY DAY, and constantly praise him! How does that constitute being underrated?

    Durant probably won't play at WC but he'll definitely play in Rio. No way in hell Wall starts over Jrue Holliday. Wall is nothing but a more skilled, more athletic version of Rondo. Not really going to comment on the rest because there's just way too many unknowns between now and 2014.

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    Senior Member NorCal's Avatar
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    '08 was nothing special when compared to other classes. Do you even know who was in those classes? Maybe we should clarify something- When you say those '06-'08 classes are the golden generation do you mean as feeder classes into Team USA or into the NBA in general? You're not being very clear.

    Also I'd like to hear your case as to why Rondo is the most overrated player in the NBA.
    Last edited by NorCal; 08-14-2012 at 11:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHBB
    Kyrie Irving should be playing for Australia though, shouldn't he?]Kyrie Irving should be playing for Australia though, shouldn't he?
    He should have represented Australia had he chosen to, prior to being a member of the 2010 USA U18 and 2011 U19 USA squads. Irving does not know FIBA qualifications pertaining to citizenship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
    '08 was nothing special when compared to other classes. Do you even know who was in those classes? Maybe we should clarify something- When you say those '06-'08 classes are the golden generation do you mean as feeder classes into Team USA or into the NBA in general? You're not being very clear.

    Also I'd like to hear your case as to why Rondo is the most overrated player in the NBA.
    Not even remotely true. I'm talking about the players, period. Whether they play in the NBA or for Team USA, those three classes are the best in decades. Considering that's roughly my age group, I know very well who was in those classes thanks.

    He gets called one of the best point guards in the league when he's not even remotely a point guard. He could barely even score until this year, and even still he has yet to play in a situation where he actually gets guarded on every play, he plays no defense and only goes for steals, he makes every play harder than it has to be and does nothing but try to draw attention to himself and show off his nonexistent streetball skills.

    That's why.

    Quote Originally Posted by CKR13 View Post
    He should have represented Australia had he chosen to, prior to being a member of the 2010 USA U18 and 2011 U19 USA squads. Irving does not know FIBA qualifications pertaining to citizenship.
    Ryan Richards is supposedly going to play for Jamaica though even though he played for GB prior to this. Can't Kyrie do the same thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHBB View Post
    Not even remotely true. I'm talking about the players, period. Whether they play in the NBA or for Team USA, those three classes are the best in decades. Considering that's roughly my age group, I know very well who was in those classes thanks.

    He gets called one of the best point guards in the league when he's not even remotely a point guard. He could barely even score until this year, and even still he has yet to play in a situation where he actually gets guarded on every play, he plays no defense and only goes for steals, he makes every play harder than it has to be and does nothing but try to draw attention to himself and show off his nonexistent streetball skills.

    That's why.

    Ryan Richards is supposedly going to play for Jamaica though even though he played for GB prior to this. Can't Kyrie do the same thing?
    I can see that there have been a number of good players in those classes but to say that they are the best for Team USA simply isn't true. The best in decades? Wow........and..........no.

    And I guess we'll agree to disagree about Rondo. The guy who led the league in assists is "not even remotely a PG"? And how is he "not guarded on every play"? That simply is not true. I think you are misinterpreting defenders backing off of him because of his broken jumper with not defending him. He's a very good rebounder for his size and is the glue that makes that Celtics offense go. Plus, he comes up big in playoff games all the time. I partially agree with you about the going for steals but I would reel back your comment and say he 'goes for steals too often' instead of 'plays no defense and only goes for steals'. He's a disruptor on the defensive side of the ball which, historically, it has been shown that most teams need one guy who disrupts and plays the passing lanes to be successful. His win shares, wins against replacement player, defensive win shares, assist %, Player Efficiency Rating all say he is a very good player. And you have it wrong that he couldn't score until this year, that's backwards. He actually scored more and was more efficient 2-3 years ago.

    I admit that he's actually taken a step back in the last year on the offensive end, IMO. But many of your claims about him, well, the evidence just isn't there to back it up. I think the guy is a top 20 player in the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHBB View Post
    Ryan Richards is supposedly going to play for Jamaica though even though he played for GB prior to this. Can't Kyrie do the same thing?
    We could also argue the case of Roy Hibbert who wanted his release from Jamaica's national basketball federation to be able to suit up for Team USA. FIBA Article 3-23 says otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKR13 View Post
    He should have represented Australia had he chosen to, prior to being a member of the 2010 USA U18 and 2011 U19 USA squads. Irving does not know FIBA qualifications pertaining to citizenship.
    He didn't play for the U19, only U18. Players certainly have switched but it would require approval from FIBA and in practice probably USA Basketball as well. IMO if he was going to try to switch to Australia it would have happened this year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGX View Post
    He didn't play for the U19, only U18. Players certainly have switched but it would require approval from FIBA and in practice probably USA Basketball as well. IMO if he was going to try to switch to Australia it would have happened this year.
    Wait... Now I'm confused.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz3JxwXshbE
    http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/pla...Men/index.html



    I remember now, U19, Kyrie Irving could not suit up.
    Sacramento Kings
    HERE WE STAY UNTIL THE COWBELLS COME HOME

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