What does the Philippine team need to watch out for (vol III)

[thatweirdguy]

Non-issue though. If he was that good, SBP would've and should've gotten him before 16. And if he got so much better at 19, he would've been our naturalized player instead of douthit or blatche. Same pa din, he can play as a local before 16 and as a naturalized at 19.

If he's really that good couldn't we just use an exemption to make his eligible to play as a local?

[DAdmiral]

Pero here’s the point I’m making. Under Philippine law, he’s naturalized. BUT, he fulfills the 3 FIBA rules for exemption: 1. Significant ties to the Philippines through his parents, 2) prolonged residency in the Philippines, and 3) multiple years playing in local Philippine leagues. So it’s the reverse of the case of most of our Fil-fors. Most of them are natural born under Philippine law but naturalized under FIBA rules. Tio is naturalized under Philippine law but natural born under FIBA rules.

Easy exception.. really, of course SBP still need to apply though, but why would they, when he's not a serious prospect. But anyway it gives u an idea why Kouame who is naturalized like Tio can potentially be exempted, of course assuming his residency and local domestic play is enough.
Do note Tio like Kouame is not a natural born Filipino by definition. (Parent was a citizen at birth). The fact that Tio has entncity and Kouame does not is not a factor at all.

[Sikatrix]

Instead of complaining about the hagop rule, why don't SBP just convince prospects to get a passport before 16? If no effort from SBP, then they are just like harvesting the fruit when already ripe without planting the seeds and taking care of the plant. If the player and family refuses, then they don't deserve to play for the flag, they only play when its the last option or given lots of money. I like this hagop rule because the SBP should do their jobs and the player should love playing for the country at a young age

Are you saying that players like Koon and Martin dont love the country at a young age? Sure ka diyan? Alam mo?

Are you also saying that only prospects we develop should play for Gilas, so players like AJ Edu are out of the picture?

[deku_midoriya]

Are you saying that players like Koon and Martin dont love the country at a young age? Sure ka diyan? Alam mo?

Are you also saying that only prospects we develop should play for Gilas, so players like AJ Edu are out of the picture?

If a kid is being asked to have a philippine passport at 16 in the hopes that he can play with gilas in the future and he still says no or his family says no, makes me question the basketball side of his patriotism. AJ Edu was recruited before 16, SBP gambled on the kid and he/his family committed.

I don't know why this hagop rule is too hard for us to comply? let's say sina JC, remy, and sage wala nang pag-asa ang mga yun... but moving forward, we just need SBP to do their jobs. Caelum harris is a good start. Let's move on. Marami pa naman sigurong fil-fors jan below 16.

[Sikatrix]

If a kid is being asked to have a philippine passport at 16 in the hopes that he can play with gilas in the future and he still says no or his family says no, makes me question the basketball side of his patriotism. AJ Edu was recruited before 16, SBP gambled on the kid and he/his family committed.

I don't know why this hagop rule is too hard for us to comply? let's say sina JC, remy, and sage wala nang pag-asa ang mga yun... but moving forward, we just need SBP to do their jobs. Caelum harris is a good start. Let's move on. Marami pa naman sigurong fil-fors jan below 16.

Sometimes they dont know about the Hagop rule. Other times they dont really have access to citizenship, Tyler Tio being a good example. You cant just assume they lack patriotism just because. You dont know them.

Also a kid being asked at 16 for a passport is ineligible. This is the entire Remy Martin problem.

[DAdmiral]

^^
By 2020 a decade after strictly implementing the U16 rule . That is no longer the case , that a good serious prospect is not aware of the rule. That is simply not the case anymore.

To answer Deku's question on why Hagop rule is so hard to comply with for some (like Sage)and yet so easy for some like Edu. Is simply this. The former do not have verified documents in order to confirm their rights to Philippine citizenship. And literally they have to make hokus pokus or extra ordinary legal facilitation to put their papers in order within the time frames (say 1 year after 15 birthday).
And the reason why Edu and the rest can , is it's easy for them to get a passport as their documents, mom is a citizen born in Philippines with a passport, with a confirmed registration of birth stating mom's Philippine citizenship.

Essentially it is this the Edu's have a confirmed legal parent as a citizen the other DO NOT!

[Sikatrix]

^^
By 2020 a decade after strictly implementing the U16 rule . That is no longer the case , that a good serious prospect is not aware of the rule. That is simply not the case anymore.

To answer Deku's question on why Hagop rule is so hard to comply with for some (like Sage)and yet so easy for some like Edu. Is simply this. The former do not have verified documents in order to confirm their rights to Philippine citizenship. And literally they have to make hokus pokus or extra ordinary legal facilitation to put their papers in order within the time frames (say 1 year after 15 birthday).
And the reason why Edu and the rest can , is it's easy for them to get a passport as their documents, mom is a citizen born in Philippines with a passport, with a confirmed registration of birth stating mom's Philippine citizenship.

Essentially it is this the Edu's have a confirmed legal parent as a citizen the other DO NOT!

Maybe some but how about cases like Koon or Remy Martin? Were both aware before 16? Right now with FilAm Nation Select and Tumakbo we actually have a good program running that helps out the SBP but did we always have such programs? When was the shift?

EDIT: BTW, Obviously I think AJ is a proud pinoy and I have no problem with him. Just asking Deku if he has a problem with players not developed by the Philippines like AJ and he obviously dodged the question.

[DAdmiral]

No Martin did not have his papers at a state that confirmed he had rights to be a Philippine citizen, so could not act on getting a Philippine passport in time , even if he was aware of the rule

[DAdmiral]

Essentially this is the situation as we move further from 2010, we really no longer have an excuse from 2021 onwards.

We could use the i didn't know card , probably in 2010 to 2015 . But no longer
Of course we cannot use "our laws a beucracy make it too hard to fix papers " LOL, that's not FIBA’s fault and we look stupid if we use that , that's on us ..

[Sikatrix]

No Martin did not have his papers at a state that confirmed he had rights to be a Philippine citizen, so could not act on getting a Philippine passport in time , even if he was aware of the rule

So he was discovered after sixteen? How about Koon? Remy Martin's case is clearly someone who has a right to citizenship since his mother was born here and only immigrated as a teenager.

[Sikatrix]

Essentially this is the situation as we move further from 2010, we really no longer have an excuse from 2021 onwards.

We could use the i didn't know card , probably in 2010 to 2015 . But no longer
Of course we cannot use "our laws a beucracy make it too hard to fix papers " LOL, that's not FIBA’s fault and we look stupid if we use that , that's on us ..

Wait has this ever happened? Wherein a prospect is discovered and processing took too long? From what I know it can be sped up like it took Taylor Browne of Alaska a week and his mother had to regain citizenship too. Since it was one day before his 18th birthday, no SBP or Gilas considerations there just an embassy understating the deadline.

[Sikatrix]

I think the job of the SBP is to first identify prospects and second once a prospect 15 or under is identified, streamline the process. Ideally this is not the job of Tumakbo or FilAm Nation Select but since they are there, they should be used.

[tomcat]

^^
By 2020 a decade after strictly implementing the U16 rule . That is no longer the case , that a good serious prospect is not aware of the rule. That is simply not the case anymore.

To answer Deku's question on why Hagop rule is so hard to comply with for some (like Sage)and yet so easy for some like Edu. Is simply this. The former do not have verified documents in order to confirm their rights to Philippine citizenship. And literally they have to make hokus pokus or extra ordinary legal facilitation to put their papers in order within the time frames (say 1 year after 15 birthday).
And the reason why Edu and the rest can , is it's easy for them to get a passport as their documents, mom is a citizen born in Philippines with a passport, with a confirmed registration of birth stating mom's Philippine citizenship.

Essentially it is this the Edu's have a confirmed legal parent as a citizen the other DO NOT!

Crystal clear..

[DAdmiral]

I think the job of the SBP is to first identify prospects and second once a prospect 15 or under is identified, streamline the process. Ideally this is not the job of Tumakbo or FilAm Nation Select but since they are there, they should be used.

The SBP and others in the community have a working relationship with key contacts within some of the key consulates .
To further streamline the process, I think we need to design verification and processing rules that are efficient. This may require legislation.. the thing is the Philippine government is really not good in doing these things, we literally live in the old age.

[DAdmiral]

Wait has this ever happened? Wherein a prospect is discovered and processing took too long? From.

It actually has happened alot..I know of 3 personally. When I say happened, some basically just gave up cause it was too hard and long