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Thread: What does the Philippine team need to watch out for (vol III)

  1. #5181
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
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    Kahit 17 or 18 years old like Greg. Important thing is they adopt the Philippines as home, (play and live here long terrm) just like any migrant of refugee

    BTW a clear documented statement of confirming adoption of the Philippines as a minor or close to (teenager) by both player and parent is a very very strong evidence that FIBA will accept very strongly. Because it is consistent with the principles they're most interested in, Adoption of the country as their own.! (for all intent and purpose that's what a passport confirms from FIBAs perspective)

  2. #5182
    Senior Member mangangalakal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Kahit 17 or 18 years old like Greg. Important thing is they adopt the Philippines as home, (play and live here long terrm) just like any migrant of refugee

    BTW a clear documented statement of confirming adoption of the Philippines as a minor or close to (teenager) by both player and parent is a very very strong evidence that FIBA will accept very strongly. Because it is consistent with the principles they're most interested in, Adoption of the country as theirs
    so do you think we can still put Kouame as a local under the Slaughter exception? I don't think so.. FIBA'll think he's too old
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  3. #5183
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangangalakal View Post
    so do you think we can still put Kouame as a local under the Slaughter exception? I don't think so.. FIBA'll think he's too old
    If you read guidelines for exception, it's certainly worth a try. Note a certification of allegiance and adoption of the Philippines takes the place in lieu of a passport. Yes this certificate has already been done for Kouame at 18 years old
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  4. #5184
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    BTW one of the evidence for local eligibility is the date of when one applies for naturalization (expresses allegiance), it is not only the validity date of the passport that FIBA looks at.

    The time to process from intial application (18 years old- guidleine 3) to final confirmation of naturalisation (say at 22 yrs old) can be attributed to beucracy processing . In the period the applicant (Koame) is a full resident (guildline 1) and player (guidline 2) in the Philippines.
    Note the case of "Filipinos " being Ange guardians ( who is fatherless) from the age or 17 or 18, is quite a significant connection to the Philippines (guidline 3)...

    Please note these are mere guidelines not hard and fast rules

    just to be clear, Kourame hasn't been legally naturalize yet and the suggestions of getting an exception to play as a local are far from guaranteed , it definitly requires convincing and lobbying with FIBA but the good thing is there is good basis for argument consistent with the exception guildlines (1-3)that can be used for his case. Will FIBA ( decision maker) agree remains to be seen of course.

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    Here are the 3 guidlines the Sec general takes into account for exception for any player ,
    without presenting the respective passport with a date of issue before the player’s
    sixteenth birthday,
    requires a decision by the Secretary General confirming that he
    In taking this decision the
    Secretary General shall take into account the following criteria:
    1. the number of years during which the player has lived in the country, for the
    national team of which he wishes to play; (By 2021 Kouame would have lived in the Philippines for 5 years straight)
    2. the number of seasons during which the player has participated in domestic
    competitions in the country of the national team for which he wishes to play; ( 5 years )
    -3. any other criteria capable of establishing a significant link between the player and
    the country, for the national team of which he wishes to play. ( he is fatherless and has been adopted by the country - with the community being essentially his guardians from the age of 18 yrs old, he is a graduate of Philippine university institution , where the national laugauge is used for intruction, he and his mother have confirmed their intent to be naturalised and adopt the Philippines as their own at the age of 17 yrs old on - Oct 2016 )

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    MVP member of central board and host of 2023 WC with the support of Filipino in FIBA legal group should take this exception case ( within normal process) with the Sec general in 2021. from the standpoint of guidliness stipulated above there really is good basis for the exception..

    The request for Clarkson to play as a local ( which doesen't really have good basis using the guildliness (e.g. never lived in the country) can even be used as compromise - he takes the position of naturalize player..

    I know each player had an independent case, but here is the thing-- as these are guidlines not hard and fast rules... the proposal to play JC as NP and Kourme as a local is very compelling proposition to FIBA sec general that will be difficult to disapprove considering that it hits all the check boxes of promoting the sport in the region and putting a face in for the Philippines as host together with Rui for Japan.. " a very compelling proposal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    MVP member of central board and host of 2023 WC with the support of Filipino in FIBA legal group should take this exception case ( within normal process) with the Sec general in 2021. from the standpoint of guidliness stipulated above there really is good basis for the exception..

    The request for Clarkson to play as a local ( which doesen't really have good basis using the guildliness (e.g. never lived in the country) can even be used as compromise - he takes the position of naturalize player..

    I know each player had an independent case, but here is the thing-- as these are guidlines not hard and fast rules... the proposal to play JC as NP and Kourme as a local is very compelling proposition to FIBA sec general that will be difficult to disapprove considering that it hits all the check boxes of promoting the sport in the region and putting a face in for the Philippines as host together with Rui for Japan.. " a very compelling proposal"


    I couldn't agree more. We get the best of both worlds. A a 6'10" athletic / young / coachable player and a 6'5" NBA-starting five caliber player. That's better than pursuing one or the other which SBP has been trying to do the past years.


    Now.... if only you, Analyzed, can tell that to SBP themselves given your connections and all. That would be swell rather than fall on the ears of helpless IBNers.
    '

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    Come to think of it... had SBP done their homework a long time ago on the guidelines, then maybe...just maybe.. they could have attempted to lobby Ben Mbala as a local having studied in DLSU. Yes, we all know he was a bit of a mercenary. But fact remains that there was a "chance" to have him play as a local.

    oh well... that's what happens when we have disorganized NSA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dunk_on_me View Post
    I couldn't agree more. We get the best of both worlds. A a 6'10" athletic / young / coachable player and a 6'5" NBA-starting five caliber player. That's better than pursuing one or the other which SBP has been trying to do the past years.


    Now.... if only you, Analyzed, can tell that to SBP themselves given your connections and all. That would be swell rather than fall on the ears of helpless IBNers.
    '
    Yes. We keep sending the same fuc*ing undersized pba players again and again for fiba tournaments. Kouame plus clarkson, together with the best young biggies like sotto and edu, have nothing to fear from a hachimura-led team. Add the most internationally-reliable shooters and playmakers from the pba like pringle and standhardinger, and you have nothing to fear from the best korean, iranian and chinese national teams. Only about 2 2way tall sgs/sfs preferably at least as athletic as thirdy are missing. Add another 2 tall reliable 3point specialists, and our nt will be competitive against australia.
    Last edited by ccharmed; 10-16-2019 at 03:58 AM.

  10. #5190
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunk_on_me View Post
    Come to think of it... had SBP done their homework a long time ago on the guidelines, then maybe...just maybe.. they could have attempted to lobby Ben Mbala as a local having studied in DLSU. Yes, we all know he was a bit of a mercenary. But fact remains that there was a "chance" to have him play as a local.

    oh well... that's what happens when we have disorganized NSA.
    no chance for SBP,to lobby Mbala because he's with a non-cooperative school and is a personal recruit of ECJ..
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  11. #5191
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    The Mbala situation is quite different, note prior to arriving in the Philippines he was basketball without Borders MVP, he then played in Cebu was it? Before joining Lasalle, so essentially he is a paid recruit.
    Read the story of Kouame, it wasn't like there were many takers or he was in demand prior to arriving in the Philippines, additionally he was 17, totally raw, no reputation. Fatherless, litterally like an orphan.. Not a job seeker. Not sure also if Mbala played for Cameroon as a youth player.
    Kourme even studied in a high school in Manila

    Basically Kouame in every essence is a homegrown educated, Filipino family nurtured and player developed teenager
    While Mbala was a made Cameroon player who took his talents to the Philippines

  12. #5192
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    Note also if the secretary General gives an exception to Kouame it does not set a bad precedent, it is not like other nations can follow and replicate the situation, it is like sige be my guess foster and adopt a 17 year old with no national youth team experience and develop him like for 5 years.
    No established baller from Western society will ever make that jump at such a young age (17)
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    ^Will be Fiba give an exception though since he has no filipino blood?

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Note also if the secretary General gives an exception to Kouame it does not set a bad precedent, it is not like other nations can follow and replicate the situation, it is like sige be my guess foster and adopt a 17 year old with no national youth team experience and develop him like for 5 years.
    No established baller from Western society will ever make that jump at such a young age (17)
    Was SBP specifically Barrios even know about that option, asking for an Exemption for Kuoame? If granted it will make Gilas competitive come 2023,especially of we get Clarkson as local... Imagine a starting 5 of Kuaome, Edu, Jollibee, Clarkson and Martin.... Pang laban na kahit sa Australia at France...

  15. #5195
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    Quote Originally Posted by sajubeads View Post
    Was SBP specifically Barrios even know about that option, asking for an Exemption for Kuoame? If granted it will make Gilas competitive come 2023,especially of we get Clarkson as local... Imagine a starting 5 of Kuaome, Edu, Jollibee, Clarkson and Martin.... Pang laban na kahit sa Australia at France...
    That team won’t look filipino though hehehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    The Mbala situation is quite different, note prior to arriving in the Philippines he was basketball without Borders MVP, he then played in Cebu was it? Before joining Lasalle, so essentially he is a paid recruit.
    Read the story of Kouame, it wasn't like there were many takers or he was in demand prior to arriving in the Philippines, additionally he was 17, totally raw, no reputation. Fatherless, litterally like an orphan.. Not a job seeker. Not sure also if Mbala played for Cameroon as a youth player.
    Kourme even studied in a high school in Manila

    Basically Kouame in every essence is a homegrown educated, Filipino family nurtured and player developed teenager
    While Mbala was a made Cameroon player who took his talents to the Philippines
    This situation actually happens a lot in the US. A well-off family will foster/provide for a promising athlete (a lot of times from Africa). Like the movie "Blindside" (but he is from within US). From memory, I think Mo Bamba is a recent example. During summer tournaments, you would see these foreign-born athletes being accompanied by foster parents/guardians. Most of the time, these rich parents have their own children on the team and to make the team stronger, get one of these foreign prospects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenoloxy View Post
    ^Will be Fiba give an exception though since he has no filipino blood?
    From FIBAs perspective that (Blood) has no relevance. Read the guidelines, the only possibility is using it as one connection to the Philippines, however note FIBA puts more weight in connections associated to choice, such as education, language connection than it has with mere blood, please note also Kouame's guardians are every much more connected to the Philippines than a 2nd generation fil foreigner, the latter actually has little connection to the Philippines other than being brown, which has little relevance in FIBAs view
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  18. #5198
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    Quote Originally Posted by sajubeads View Post
    Was SBP specifically Barrios even know about that option, asking for an Exemption for Kuoame? If granted it will make Gilas competitive come 2023,especially of we get Clarkson as local... Imagine a starting 5 of Kuaome, Edu, Jollibee, Clarkson and Martin.... Pang laban na kahit sa Australia at France...
    Not sure how realistic all 5 can play, but here really is the point -- it really is only thruogh upgrade of talent level that you get more competitive. that is the bottom line-- Japan and other nations got better mainly due to upgrade of talent ( Rui. Watanabe, Baba) -
    Relying on the tier level of our current PBA players really isn't a "level " game changer.. It's only tru upgrade of your top tier ( Big 3 - world level (e.g JC, AJ etc) that you get an upgrade.

    I'd settle with a big 3 of Kourme, AJ and JC.. and just fill in the rest with remaining best ( Kai, Thirdy, kobe, Bolick , CJ, Kiefer , Dave - etc etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    The Mbala situation is quite different, note prior to arriving in the Philippines he was basketball without Borders MVP, he then played in Cebu was it? Before joining Lasalle, so essentially he is a paid recruit.
    Read the story of Kouame, it wasn't like there were many takers or he was in demand prior to arriving in the Philippines, additionally he was 17, totally raw, no reputation. Fatherless, litterally like an orphan.. Not a job seeker. Not sure also if Mbala played for Cameroon as a youth player.
    Kourme even studied in a high school in Manila

    Basically Kouame in every essence is a homegrown educated, Filipino family nurtured and player developed teenager
    While Mbala was a made Cameroon player who took his talents to the Philippines
    This is why I cringe whenever people talk about Kouame like he was a complete, Mbala-like player that Ateneo recruited.

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Not sure how realistic all 5 can play, but here really is the point -- it really is only thruogh upgrade of talent level that you get more competitive. that is the bottom line-- Japan and other nations got better mainly due to upgrade of talent ( Rui. Watanabe, Baba) -
    Relying on the tier level of our current PBA players really isn't a "level " game changer.. It's only tru upgrade of your top tier ( Big 3 - world level (e.g JC, AJ etc) that you get an upgrade.

    I'd settle with a big 3 of Kourme, AJ and JC.. and just fill in the rest with remaining best ( Kai, Thirdy, kobe, Bolick , CJ, Kiefer , Dave - etc etc.
    Not so high on Remy Martin? A starting 5 of Kuoame, Edu, Clarkson, Parks and Martin can put fear into the hearts of All As Pac team then Fajardo, Sotto, Paras, Perez and Kiefer as backup.. Add Rosario and Dave Ildefonso and youve got your 2023 team..

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