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Thread: Top Players at Olympic Qualifying Tournament

  1. #21
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    I don't understand how anyone could have Diogu on their list.
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  2. #22
    Dear Leader J-Mart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saalsapr View Post
    Im between the lines about who is a better pg between them.

    On one hand Barea shows more in the stats, as he had more assists and less turnovers than Arroyo back in Mar De Plata, but on the court the team seems to play better with Arroyo on the court. That could be because Arroyo is/was a better shooter than Barea, and almost shot 50% from the three point line in Fiba Americas 2011.

    I would put it like this

    Barea pg
    Arroyo sg

    Because when he wants to, Barea can be right now a better pg than Arroyo by creating space for the shooters with his drives. Carlos is getting slower, and his flashy passes are getting more uncommon to see.

    That being said

    Andres Rodriguez>>>>>>>>A&B as a pure pg. His stats in last years Fiba Americas and the past centrobasket speak for themselves.
    barea has better stats as pg because he hogs the ball. arroyo actually can run an offense.

    thats why the team plays better with arroyo and arroyo is a better pg despite barea having better numbers

  3. #23
    Senior Member sixama23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympiacos View Post
    Is Vazquez even as good as Zisis? I don't really think so.

    You are overrating Diogu and Aminu also. And Shved, it's hard to say. He certainly has the talent, but then again, he is a brainless player. I honestly don't think he's even the best Russian SG, as Fridzon is better than him.

    Klieza is about half as good now as he was in the days when he played with Olympiacos.
    You must be kidding me about Zisis and Vasquez

    Have you ever seen Vasquez playing? This kid is a true leader. Tremendous scoring and passing abilities...
    Zisis is just a role player. A good player but still a role player. He is a better defender than Vasquez but the Venezuelan is a much more talented player.

    I don't know if Shved is brainless. All I know is that he is the next big "over 6'6'' European guard.
    He is just 23 years older. I can't remember Papaloukas or Diamantidis being better than Shved at this age.

    I can't find in the tournament any SF who is better than Aminu...
    Diogu could have been a better player than he is now. His progress wasn't as good as it was expected. But still he has almost 7 years of NBA experience. If he was playing in Euroleague, he could have become a star-player.

    Kleiza is the most talented player that played in Greece the last 5 years...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGX View Post
    I don't understand how anyone could have Diogu on their list.
    A lot of guys from outside USA just automatically think anyone that played in the NBA is better than international players. The same way that most Americans think this. It's false of course. The difference is that a lot of Americans would have actually seen Diogu play. So that explains it.

    He's a good low post scorer though, but definitely overrated in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixama23 View Post
    You must be kidding me about Zisis and Vasquez

    Have you ever seen Vasquez playing? This kid is a true leader. Tremendous scoring and passing abilities...
    Zisis is just a role player. A good player but still a role player. He is a better defender than Vasquez but the Venezuelan is a much more talented player.

    I don't know if Shved is brainless. All I know is that he is the next big "over 6'6'' European guard.
    He is just 23 years older. I can't remember Papaloukas or Diamantidis being better than Shved at this age.

    I can't find in the tournament any SF who is better than Aminu...
    Diogu could have been a better player than he is now. His progress wasn't as good as it was expected. But still he has almost 7 years of NBA experience. If he was playing in Euroleague, he could have become a star-player.

    Kleiza is the most talented player that played in Greece the last 5 years...
    About Kleiza, he is about half as good now as when he played in Greece. This is not 2010. It's 2012. Things change.

    I'm not sure about guys like Pau and Navarro, if they really are old and not as good now. It might just be that Pau is tired, and we can't really know until we see Navarro after his foot is better.

    In the case of Kleiza it just is what it is. He's lost his athletic ability and he's a shell of what he used to be. It's just like comparing what Vasilopoulos used to be, to what he is now.

    Also, you are clearly overrating guys simply because they played in the NBA.
    Last edited by Olympiacos; 06-30-2012 at 07:35 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member sinobball's Avatar
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    Diogu is a pretty solid scorer around the basket (he only uses his right hand though), but has average athleticism (getting fatter?) and rebounding skills. Also too short to defend 7 footers. Depends on how you use him.
    aim low, score high

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    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympiacos View Post
    A lot of guys from outside USA just automatically think anyone that played in the NBA is better than international players. The same way that most Americans think this. It's false of course. The difference is that a lot of Americans would have actually seen Diogu play. So that explains it.

    He's a good low post scorer though, but definitely overrated in this thread.



    About Kleiza, he is about half as good now as when he played in Greece. This is not 2010. It's 2012. Things change.

    I'm not sure about guys like Pau and Navarro, if they really are old and not as good now. It might just be that Pau is tired, and we can't really know until we see Navarro after his foot is better.

    In the case of Kleiza it just is what it is. He's lost his athletic ability and he's a shell of what he used to be. It's just like comparing what Vasilopoulos used to be, to what he is now.
    Wait a moment how many matches have you seen kleiza playing this 2012 ? Kleiza is 28 years old,at this age most of the players are the pick of their careers.Yes that injury slow him down,but next year he gonna be way stronger,this nba season was just insane game arfter game and Linas didnt have time to prepare his operated leg and ofcourse his not as in 2010..but common to compere him with vasilopoulus its funny,that guy even in his best years didnt play as good as kleiza is right now when not 100% ready...But there was in nba couple matches (20+) and this summer momemts when kleiza was on his "feeling moments" and than he can be best PF in europe.I dont agree that you calculating Kleiza already out at age of 28...You dont go from best euroleague player in 2 years to washed up player...

  7. #27
    Senior Member macleopard13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympiacos View Post
    A lot of guys from outside USA just automatically think anyone that played in the NBA is better than international players. The same way that most Americans think this. It's false of course. The difference is that a lot of Americans would have actually seen Diogu play. So that explains it.

    He's a good low post scorer though, but definitely overrated in this thread.



    About Kleiza, he is about half as good now as when he played in Greece. This is not 2010. It's 2012. Things change.

    I'm not sure about guys like Pau and Navarro, if they really are old and not as good now. It might just be that Pau is tired, and we can't really know until we see Navarro after his foot is better.

    In the case of Kleiza it just is what it is. He's lost his athletic ability and he's a shell of what he used to be. It's just like comparing what Vasilopoulos used to be, to what he is now.

    Also, you are clearly overrating guys simply because they played in the NBA.
    I have to agree with Shawshank here. Kleiza is off right now. But he played quite well in Toronto last season, hitting threes like he did in 2010 and playing solid D on average NBA players. That long break between the end of his season and the start of the national team camp is what messed him up. And he's still outta shape. But who knows, maybe when the actual games start, he'll step up his game .

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by macleopard13 View Post
    I have to agree with Shawshank here. Kleiza is off right now. But he played quite well in Toronto last season, hitting threes like he did in 2010 and playing solid D on average NBA players. That long break between the end of his season and the start of the national team camp is what messed him up. And he's still outta shape. But who knows, maybe when the actual games start, he'll step up his game .
    of course he will. i can bet on that. you cant expect him to play at his best in preperation games, especially after the number of injuries he recently had.

  9. #29
    Senior Member sixama23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympiacos View Post
    A lot of guys from outside USA just automatically think anyone that played in the NBA is better than international players. The same way that most Americans think this. It's false of course. The difference is that a lot of Americans would have actually seen Diogu play. So that explains it.

    Also, you are clearly overrating guys simply because they played in the NBA.
    I am not overrating anyone...
    The best players are playing in the NBA, that's the truth. It doesn't mean that everyone who plays in the NBA is better than any Euroleague player but the best are playing there. There are many times that even a mediocre NBA player can make the difference in Europe. Just like it happened with Dorsey this year.

    Also we are not comparing the players based on their clubs achievements but on their personal skills. Papanikolaou won the Euroleague as an Oly player but this doesn't mean that he is better player than all the others SFs in the OQT.

    I am following Vasquez's career since he was playing for Maryland. It's crazy to believe that Zisis is a better player than him. Just crazy...

    If comparing Zisis with Vasquez was just crazy, then I have nothing to say about comparing Kleiza with Vasilopoulos...

    Quote Originally Posted by sinobball View Post
    Diogu is a pretty solid scorer around the basket (he only uses his right hand though), but has average athleticism (getting fatter?) and rebounding skills. Also too short to defend 7 footers. Depends on how you use him.
    I agree with you but just remember that it's not the NBA over here. It's the OQT and we are comparing Diogu with players who will play in this tournament. Diogu is really undersized and average athlete for the NBA. But athleticism and size standards are different in Europe and International competitions than NBA standards. If Diogu was playing in Europe he wouldn't have any problem playing even as a center.

  10. #30

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    Any thoughts on First and Second Team Tournament Selections so far? Here are my 2 cents: (I am taking some liberties with positions to make it work)

    First Team
    Spanoulis
    Fridzon
    Kleiza
    Horford
    Ramos

    Second Team
    McCalebb
    Jasikevicius
    Aminu
    Kirilenko
    Mingas

    Honorable Mention: Cipriano, Diogu, Webster, Barea, Vasquez, Antic, Printezis, Martinez

  11. #31
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    The best team:
    1.Bo MaCcaleb(FYROM)
    2.Vasilis Spanoulis(Greece)
    3.Andrei Kirilenko(Russia)
    4.Linas Kleiza(Lithuania)
    5.Giannis Bourousis(Greece)
    The 2nd team:
    1.Nikos Zisis(Greece)
    2.Alexy Shved(Russia)
    3.Antonis Fotsis(Greece)
    4.Giorgos Printezis(Greece)
    5.Timofey Mozgov(Russia)

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tasos Peiraias View Post
    The best team:
    1.Bo MaCcaleb(FYROM)
    2.Vasilis Spanoulis(Greece)
    3.Andrei Kirilenko(Russia)
    4.Linas Kleiza(Lithuania)
    5.Giannis Bourousis(Greece)
    The 2nd team:
    1.Nikos Zisis(Greece)
    2.Alexy Shved(Russia)
    3.Antonis Fotsis(Greece)
    4.Giorgos Printezis(Greece)
    5.Timofey Mozgov(Russia)
    Good selections, but I think a few more Greek players should be added.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by christodoulou76 View Post
    Good selections, but I think a few more Greek players should be added.
    Yeah I said not to add many Greeks...

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGX View Post
    I don't understand how anyone could have Diogu on their list.
    Second that. Such an untalented and stupid player. Adventuristic and at the same time sloppy as hell. It's not that surprising that after his NBA stint he came to low-level Chinese league and not to Europe.

    About symbolic teams after Group stage then I'll put it that way (also mixing positions in order to get all the best in the team):

    First team:
    Vassilis Spanoulis
    Vitali Fridzon
    Andrei Kirilenko
    Linas Kleiza
    Al Horford

    Second team:
    Sarunas Jasikevicius
    Bo McCaleb
    Derrick Obasohan
    Viktor Khryapa
    P.J. Ramos

    Honorable mention: Nathan Peavy, Georgios Printezis, Kostas Papanikolaou, Martynas Pocius, Al-Farouq Aminu, Tony Skinn, Oscar Torres, Alexander Kaun, Tai Webster, Jack Michael Martinez, Eulis Baez, Pero Antic, Olimpio Cipriano, Carlos Morais, Eduardo Mingas.

    All-disappointments team:
    Greivis Vazquez/J.J. Barea
    Alexei Shved/Carlos Arroyo/Rimantas Kaukenas
    Francisco Garcia
    Ike Diogu/Mika Vukona
    Josh Asselin/Jonas Valanciunas

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixama23 View Post
    I am not overrating anyone...
    The best players are playing in the NBA, that's the truth. It doesn't mean that everyone who plays in the NBA is better than any Euroleague player but the best are playing there. There are many times that even a mediocre NBA player can make the difference in Europe. Just like it happened with Dorsey this year.

    Also we are not comparing the players based on their clubs achievements but on their personal skills. Papanikolaou won the Euroleague as an Oly player but this doesn't mean that he is better player than all the others SFs in the OQT.

    I am following Vasquez's career since he was playing for Maryland. It's crazy to believe that Zisis is a better player than him. Just crazy...

    If comparing Zisis with Vasquez was just crazy, then I have nothing to say about comparing Kleiza with Vasilopoulos...



    I agree with you but just remember that it's not the NBA over here. It's the OQT and we are comparing Diogu with players who will play in this tournament. Diogu is really undersized and average athlete for the NBA. But athleticism and size standards are different in Europe and International competitions than NBA standards. If Diogu was playing in Europe he wouldn't have any problem playing even as a center.
    But you are overrating the NBA players. I wonder if you have ever even seen a Euroleague game, based on your comments. You sound like a clear 100% NBA only fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorizer View Post
    All-disappointments team:
    Greivis Vazquez/J.J. Barea
    Alexei Shved/Carlos Arroyo/Rimantas Kaukenas
    Francisco Garcia
    Ike Diogu/Mika Vukona
    Josh Asselin/Jonas Valanciunas
    Pretty good selections there.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorizer View Post

    All-disappointments team:
    Greivis Vazquez/J.J. Barea
    Alexei Shved/Carlos Arroyo/Rimantas Kaukenas
    Francisco Garcia
    Ike Diogu/Mika Vukona
    Josh Asselin/Jonas Valanciunas
    Fotsis should be added to this list. I hope he starts playing better soon!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by christodoulou76 View Post
    Fotsis should be added to this list. I hope he starts playing better soon!
    I guess he can be in the "did he even play" list? He's been invisible. I guess his ankle injury was much worse than they told us.

  18. #38
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    Horford is the MVP of the tournament

  19. #39

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    So no love for Ike Diogu ??? dude has been the best player on the Nigerian team
    Visit http://teamnigeriabasketball.com/ for Nigerian Basketball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotela View Post
    So no love for Ike Diogu ??? dude has been the best player on the Nigerian team
    I'm definitely impressed by him after watching his game against Greece. But in all honesty, the whole Nigerian team is playing well and Diogu has some flaws in his game. Overall, just a good player and could be on everyone's list if he plays well in the next 1/2 games.
    Lithuania > Serbia 5:2 in official games this century

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