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Thread: Best european players of all time

  1. #41
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    oh yeah, but he is catalonian anyway

  2. #42
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    After Kostas Tsartsaris retirement we can say that he was the best power forward of his era in Europe.

    Gold Eurobasket Champion 2005
    Silver Mundobasket Champion 2006
    Euroleague rings 2007, 2009, 2011
    Greek Champion 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013
    Greek Cup Winner 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013

    (23 titles in his career)

  3. #43
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    The guy who has averages of 6,6 points and 3,9 rebounds in his Euroleague career is the best? I like him, he was integral part of that great Panthinaikos team, but he was a role player. Often times not even starting PF on his own team.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by trompas View Post
    After Kostas Tsartsaris retirement we can say that he was the best power forward of his era in Europe.

    Gold Eurobasket Champion 2005
    Silver Mundobasket Champion 2006
    Euroleague rings 2007, 2009, 2011
    Greek Champion 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013
    Greek Cup Winner 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013

    (23 titles in his career)
    LOL...

    18 titles out of 23 won in Greece with just 1 serious opponent (Oly)...

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxicity View Post
    LOL...

    18 titles out of 23 won in Greece with just 1 serious opponent (Oly)...

    Maybe you don't lol but troll.

    tell me the first. Lorbek? Smodis? Fotsis? Andersen?
    He was three-time euroleague winner and had two national medals. He was one of the leaders and basic part of the most successful team in Europe the last decade.

    The stats averages are not the only criteria to judge a player. Tsari had the brain, the right moves inside the court, the defense, assists, he could play well inside as well as behind the 3pt line and something that other players haven't: the rings.

    I don't say he was Karl Malone, but you could not find many power forwards in Europe to play the basketball like Tsari.

    Watch again the last game against the european champion Olympiacos in greek finals where pao made the sweep by 0-3 with home disadvantage. Check also the game against real in madrid this year and the final against csska.

    Have also in mind that scoring could be achieved better when you are a good player in an average or not in a good team. You can be key player that could play 30 min and score easily 20 points. Panathinaikos team is not a team that has one or two key players. PAO had at least 4 stars in his starter team every year. Batiste, Rebraca, Bodiroga, Diamantidis, Jasiskevicius, Spanoulis, Alvertis, Lakovic. The score was always divided.

    Take the example of Bobby Brown this year or Williams of Malaga. They are scorers but we all know that are more clowns than players.

    Finally, he stayed in the team although he had a lot of chances to go to another team. Even this year when PAO lost 10/12 players (all the players abandoned the team; even the coach obradovic). Only Tsartsaris and Diamantidis stayed. As true leaders. Protecting the green flag and helping Panathinaikos to win the double in Greek championship again. And if it wasn't the "war" between Bertomeu and panathinaikos (outside the courts), panathinaikos could easily win the crown this year. But referees had a different opinion in the first game against barca in top 8. Otherwise the series would be 0-3 (like with oly in the greek finals) and pao in the f4.

    He was a real leader. Rarely you can find such leaders. Perhaps Reyes for Real or Gerrard (liverpool) or Totti (Roma) for football.
    Panathinaikos must retire his jersey number (and diamantidis when will retire).

    bye

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxicity View Post
    LOL...

    18 titles out of 23 won in Greece with just 1 serious opponent (Oly)...
    This is only the case for the last couple of years. Before that the Greek competition was a lot stronger. With third ranked teams (Panionios, Aris, Marousi) competing in the EL succesfully and 4th and 5th ranked teams (Marousi, Aris, Makedonikos) making or winning the Uleb cup finals. A decade back AEK was a force in Europe too. Tsartsaris was part of Pao even then.
    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

  7. #47
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    Lorbek, Smodiš, Fotsis, Andersen, Turkcan, Kleiza, Khryapa, Tanoka Beard... and god knows I've forgoten so many names I'd be able to pull out of my head just a few years ago without Tsartsaris even remotely coming to my mind, basicaly even Kirilenko, Peković, Vujčić/Baston eventhough some played only a season/2 or some were borderline PF's...
    ...it's nice to see a gratitude from a devoted fan... but if he is the best power forward of his era in europe, than I'm sure Derrick Sharp has been the SG of the century if not millenium...
    give me a breeaak

    good player, contributed a lot to Pao's results, but don't overpush it like THAT...

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joško Poljak Fan View Post
    Lorbek, Smodiš, Fotsis, Andersen, Turkcan, Kleiza, Khryapa, Tanoka Beard... and god knows I've forgoten so many names I'd be able to pull out of my head just a few years ago without Tsartsaris even remotely coming to my mind, basicaly even Kirilenko, Peković, Vujčić/Baston eventhough some played only a season/2 or some were borderline PF's...
    ...it's nice to see a gratitude from a devoted fan... but if he is the best power forward of his era in europe, than I'm sure Derrick Sharp has been the SG of the century if not millenium...
    give me a breeaak

    good player, contributed a lot to Pao's results, but don't overpush it like THAT...
    none of them you mentioned (besides smodis) had the rings. also have in mind how many years played in europe. Tsartsaris was playing for 11 years.

    Andersen, Baston and Beard are not europeans. The thread is about european players.
    Pekovic & Vujčić are centers.

    For me the most talented pf so far the last decade who helped their teams having a leader role are:
    Tsartsaris,
    Smodis and then
    Lorbek although he hasn't the titles, he is the best in europe right now (Kleiza is better but he is playing in nba)

    the others although that they are/were good players they didn't have the trophies or they played on lower level teams and cannot be included in a list.

    That's my opinion. For me you cannot judge a player only by stats. The scoring in a team such as panathinaikos could be easily divided to many players. If you have lakovic, spanoulis, batiste, diamantidis, becirovic, tomacevic, siskauskas, fotsis, alvertis, kutluai in the same team along with Tsartsaris everyone could have an average of 7 points and all together 100.

    The role in their teams, the moves, positioning in the court, how easily can play the pick&pop/roll, the defense, assists (it's like personal scoring), the brain and how many turnovers are made, how many years consecutive played etc. are the right criteria.

    For example, Moses Malone was a good center, such as Robinson and Duncan. The last two however played over 10 years in San Antonio having the rings as well.

    I agree that Greek championship the last years is a party for two. However, until the early 00s AEK, ARIS, PAOK, Panionios, were difficult opponents to win even for the Panathinaikos dream team. Maroussi and Makedonikos were playing in Korac and Saporta Cup finals. AEK had a very good team with good numbers in euroleague some years ago. (euroleague is now a crap competition. I cannot understand why we should have every year 4 italian teams, 4 turkish teams etc. Wild cards should be stopped right now. A more fair system should be made, where teams should have their ranking (club level) for the draws, and the number of participants should be sorted out by countries' accumulated points like UEFA). Right now, even if a team finishes 8th in their national championship, could participate -with a wild card- in Euroleague. Greece deserves a third team in euroleague instead of a turkish one for example. Greek teams have won five out of the seven cups the last years. It's a pity for a nation with such success to have only two teams).

    bye
    Last edited by trompas; 06-15-2013 at 01:25 PM.

  9. #49
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    You are delusional. It`s the same as if saying that Robert Horry was better player then Karl Malone and Charles Barkley, because they don`t have titles.

    Btw, Lorbek is not anywhere near top of PF ladder in Europe at the moment. He is having terrible season, getting benched for Mavrokefalides and Wallace lately.

  10. #50
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    if we talk only in euroleague and europians then Khrjapa is the man of last seasons. Before him it was Smodis, Garbajosa and Klieza (when he was in europe). And even mr. unconsistacy Fotsis gets some credit over Tsartsaris...and so on and on

    Tsartsaris gets credit for being grat role player for long time. But here we don't talk about comparison Drexler and Jordan, but comparison of Derek Fisher with Jason Kidd. Tsartsaris is Derek Fisher in eurolegue among europians on PF spot. Great role player and important pice of championship team wich all championship teams have. But those guys can't be among best players because basketball is simple sport. There are always leaders and role players and those guys are divaded in those categories. Tsartsaris just like Jimenez can only be named best role players of their era
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

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