Balkan League - Hapoel Tel Aviv & Hapoel Gilboa/Galil

[cscarlos]

You are telling me something new here cus until now I didn't know strength was a real issue with guards.
Also he is like 1.80 and something,that is also enough for PG.
Moran is very quick and like you said,with a great court vision,+ a leadership,
Exactly the things you need in a PG and that what he is.
Sure,all the nature stuff that you mention can help you be better player but when it comes to what is matter,Moran has it.
By the way you are keep saying that Moran had a chance in the preparation to Eurobasket although he barley got minutes from Shivak.
I know it was mistake.
He did a lot of mistakes in the Eurobasket, like,giving the opening PG spot to Gal Mekel who was terrible in the tournament or not use Nahimi like he should have or put Burstein in the roster.

Now let me go back to the origin of my post:
When it comes to the stronger league Israel is stronger than the Serbian league over all.
Even if there has a seasons when the top teams of serbia can be a small favorit agiants our top teams still overall our league is better (and I really don't think our top teams are weaker)
When it comes to the Israeli player vs the Serbian player I will not denay that Serbian player is better but not in hat big difference like you keep saying

[MaccabiTA]

You are telling me something new here cus until now I didn't know strength was a real issue with guards.
Also he is like 1.80 and something,that is also enough for PG.
Moran is very quick and like you said,with a great court vision,+ a leadership,
Exactly the things you need in a PG and that what he is.
Sure,all the nature stuff that you mention can help you be better player but when it comes to what is matter,Moran has it.
By the way you are keep saying that Moran had a chance in the preparation to Eurobasket although he barley got minutes from Shivak.
I know it was mistake.
He did a lot of mistakes in the Eurobasket, like,giving the opening PG spot to Gal Mekel who was terrible in the tournament or not use Nahimi like he should have or put Burstein in the roster.

Now let me go back to the origin of my post:
When it comes to the stronger league Israel is stronger than the Serbian league over all.
Even if there has a seasons when the top teams of serbia can be a small favorit agiants our top teams still overall our league is better (and I really don't think our top teams are weaker)
When it comes to the Israeli player vs the Serbian player I will not denay that Serbian player is better but not in hat big difference like you keep saying

First of all-of course strength is an issue with guards, it's an issue with every player actually and is very important for a player in modern basketball, no matter in what position he plays (obviously a center needs more strength than a guard but you know what I'm saying)
1.80+bamba is pretty short, even for a point guard. I checked for you a few in Euroleague teams for example Efes' first 2 PGs Ilievski 1.88, Tunceri 1.90, Panathinaikos DD 1.96, Calathes 1.98, Saras 1.93, Barcelona Huertas 1.90, Sada 1.92, in Maccabi Farmar 1.88, Yogev 1.89, Papaloukas 2.00 so you get the deal, Moran's 1.80 or 1.81 is short in modern basketball, it's quite obvious for anyone who watches Euroleague or any high-level competition.
Moran has good court vision and leadership but when you got no strength, no athleticism, no height and no stable shooting it's not enough in the highest level, it's great for the Israeli league but in the Euroleague he can be 3rd PG with 5-10 minutes if he's lucky to find a nice coach. He barely got minutes even though his competition was Gal f'in Mekel.. if he can't find minutes against this joke player when he's in the peak of his career, it says it all.
There were enough mistakes in the Eurobasket but I don't think he did many in the guards positions, our guards were simply weak beside from Yotam, and Nissim here and there, Roth wouldn't make it any better. Naimi has his better days but he also has many bad days, and when he has one he can ruin a team. Tal in the Eurobasket was sad to watch. that's all I can say.

When you compare the leagues it really depends, if you include Maccabi or not, but really let's not get into comparisons because that depends on personal point-of-view and we won't end this argument in the next decade..

[cscarlos]

my thoughts only, you think to highly about the euroleague.
even one-sided players with one or two qualities can successed. for example Lior Eliyahu and is unique throw (+atletizem) or guy pnini and his set shooting.(and many others that are not in maccabi that i cant remember).
you also to much depend your values for player on nature. so Moran is not a tall guard although he plays in the smallest position and he isnt that tiny, so he cant dunk so what? so he would do a lay-up. strength does matter but for him its not by that much like you says.
its also very clever for you to say that ''his shoot is not stable'' because if you would say that he is bad shooter you would be wrong.

Now, about the compartion of those two leagues i think i can have an opinion that is more objective do to facts, like:
the diffrence in budget.
the fact that if you put partizan you also should put maccabi.
the fact that our league is pretty much equal (in the levels) so the level does not fall to much from each team.
when in serbia they have alot of teams with almost all depend on locals we have athletic americans that make the advantage.
and so on.
over all if you looke in the all league vs the all league, our level is more high.

[goga78]

my thoughts only, you think to highly about the euroleague.
even one-sided players with one or two qualities can successed. for example Lior Eliyahu and is unique throw (+atletizem) or guy pnini and his set shooting.(and many others that are not in maccabi that i cant remember).

There are for sure players of non-EL level playing there, also one-dimensional players but I wouldn't put Eliyahu and Pnini in the same category. Lior is one of the best offensive forwards in the lewague. He is tall, he can put the ball to the floor, score off the drive or by posting up and making a half-hook. He is a walking mismatch on his position. Pnini can play two positions with more or less success and his shooting is clutch. Even if you are a role player, you have to do your role perfectly. Moran Roth can make many things well but he isn't perfect for the EL. He, like Meir Tapiro, needs a team for himself, where he has all playmaking freedoms and extended playing time. That's the reason why he failed in the NT. He cannot produce in short streaks. Yes, he is quicker than Mekel and gets rid of the ball faster. But he is physically less strong and smaller in his stature. Mekel was preferred for defensive purposes. At the same time, I found the choice of players somewhat strange. But there is an abundance of good guards in Israel, so someone had to stay out or hardly get minutes.

[MaccabiTA]

my thoughts only, you think to highly about the euroleague.
even one-sided players with one or two qualities can successed. for example Lior Eliyahu and is unique throw (+atletizem) or guy pnini and his set shooting.(and many others that are not in maccabi that i cant remember).
you also to much depend your values for player on nature. so Moran is not a tall guard although he plays in the smallest position and he isnt that tiny, so he cant dunk so what? so he would do a lay-up. strength does matter but for him its not by that much like you says.
its also very clever for you to say that ''his shoot is not stable'' because if you would say that he is bad shooter you would be wrong.

Now, about the compartion of those two leagues i think i can have an opinion that is more objective do to facts, like:
the diffrence in budget.
the fact that if you put partizan you also should put maccabi.
the fact that our league is pretty much equal (in the levels) so the level does not fall to much from each team.
when in serbia they have alot of teams with almost all depend on locals we have athletic americans that make the advantage.
and so on.
over all if you looke in the all league vs the all league, our level is more high.

First of all, about the first part of your post read Goga's answer, but guys like Guy and Lior showed their superiority to the rest of the Israeli NT players in the summer (maybe Halperin was in the same group) so comparing them to a player like Roth that didn't even deserve minutes in the preparation games is a joke.
Now to the height issue, if you think that the only thing where height matters is dunking then you, my friend, are a joke. height just like strength matters a lot on defense and also on offense, if you're guarded by a guy who's 10-15cm taller that's a huge disadventage, it makes it harder to score over him and harder to find the open man and give him the ball, on defense shots can be taken on your face, you'll be posted up on by stronger and taller guards and you'll give opponent guards an easy job of finding the open man, these extra centimeters have been Papaloukas' secret.. his height+great court vision let him find the open man with ease.
Don't get me wrong, when I said his shot isn't stable I didn't mean 'it's good but not stable' I actually meant that not only is it average at best but it's also unstable. he's not a bad shooter but far from being a good shooter too.

[cscarlos]

Of course I didn't meant just dunking it was an example that for everything that nature give you their is a replacement. You lil bit short so you put more effort on D. You don't have strength so you try to hide it.
Play your strength.
Maybe Lior was a bad example but like I said you think to highly about the EL.

[[M-120]]

23/11/2011
Galil Gilboa 76 - 67 BC Rilski Sportist

24/11/2011
Hapoel Tel Aviv 75 - 68 KK Ulcinj

[cscarlos]

Its also should be mention that the 2 israeli teams are in first place.

[ironwill23]

Its also should be mention that the 2 israeli teams are in first place.

everyone knew it would be like this with galil-this league its not for her level to my opinion. but HTA does fit to this league, I think that hapoel will to the final but lose there to Galil(so, but galil is too much for them).

[cscarlos]

we really dont think much about the balkan league huh? lol..we are sorry Shtrix or how you say his name

[cscarlos]

someone got lazy
Hapoel wins vs Mostar from bosnia 85-67

[cscarlos]

HTA wins in the cup vs Galil....
surprise....

[ironwill23]

HTA wins in the cup vs Galil....
surprise....

yes, there was a grest performance of matan and yonatan-i was underestimate HTA, if you play like you played against GG you have a chance.

[[M-120]]

Since Hapoel Galil & Gilboa has secured a spot in Final Four, and Hapoel Tel Aviv is still in quaterfinal. So if, Hapoel Tel Aviv win the 3rd game against Riskil Sportist, does that means HTA will meet HGG in the semifinal? Or they cant meet each other in the semi final because they are from the same country, Israel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_BIBL_season#Quarterfinals_2

If so, then it's pretty sux. Would love to see two Israeli teams in top 2 (Gold and Silver medals)

[[M-120]]

Hapoel Tel Aviv and Hapoel Galil Gilboa will play each other in Balkan Final Four semifinal!