[Final] Game 90/A: Spain - France

[Flo]

I don't think France will win tomorrow. There's still a big gap with Spain. It's narrowing, but it's there. Against Russia, we had difficulties to be quick on 3pts shooters, and Spain has the most powerful weapons here. We might be punished

But maybe at the Olympics, France will have a stronger team, with hopefully Pietrus, Beaubois, Bokolo, Diot.

That should be a great game though, if France starts well and confident

[Dtown]

Spain wins, though I expect it to be much closer than that pathetic display before. France has earned my respect, but I just don't think they're on Spain's level. An upset could still happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Deschain]

Have you seen Batum playing during the tournament? Has any other NT a SF with his skills? Isn't he an above average player



Shame for european basketball is having fans like you that only appreciate chess basketball, lay-ups and 3pointers and disrespect athletic basketball like the one played by France...

What did you mean with 'unwillful'?

Batum can only dunk and shoot an open three. Features which are very valuable in NBA Live 2001.

I mean, they are easily resolved against an organized opponent because they are tactically and mentally inferior to that opponent. They can only stay that level as long as they can play their basketball.


Why are the coaches like Pesic, Messina, Obradovic, Ivkovic, Pianigiani, Repesa, Blatt, Kazlauskas, Gershon or even Scariolo regarded highly in Europe? What's the meaning of coaching if basketball means to dunk after a pass?

If I wanted to see dunks and ballhandling moves, I'd go and watch streetball, where there's no spark of intelligence.

Basketball is a team sport. What's the meaning of having useless peons to wait in the offence when they all could have a role in the offense?

[Deschain]

NBA basketball has been the most successful. USA gettin the bronze was a failure while Turkey would dream to get a Olympic medal in basketball.

Basketball is most popular in US. (not the most popular sport in US) They have an established growth program and they have the 3rd most population on Earth as a country.

How can this suggest that raw talents and basketball brains are non existant in Europe? And how can this Dunk basketball attract them to play as they should?

[Hater]

Scariolo is the only one who can make France win.

[Luíz for 3]

Batum can only dunk and shoot an open three. Features which are very valuable in NBA Live 2001.

Ok! Can you please name another SF, in Europe, better than Batum?

I mean, they are easily resolved against an organized opponent because they are tactically and mentally inferior to that opponent. They can only stay that level as long as they can play their basketball.

Looks like they could play their basketball all tournament long since they reach the final and the basketball masterminds that you named failed to stop a bunch of dunkers and the high jumpers

[Adon]

Ok! Can you please name another SF, in Europe, better than Batum?

Kirilenko

[Deschain]

Ok! Can you please name another SF, in Europe, better than Batum?




Looks like they could play their basketball all tournament long since they reach the final and the basketball masterminds that you named failed to stop a bunch of dunkers and the high jumpers

Rudy, Hedo, Kirilenko, Khryapa, Monya, San Emeterio, (Omit the NBA'ers, if you want "in europe") and I can count more. And even more with players who can play at SF. -If we can determine betterness linearly.


I told how they reached the final.
Having two good guards is enough for the final with the teams' current condition.

How many teams are in full strength this year? Spain had won the gold even before the tournament started

Turkey and Lithuania destroyed France last year when they only lacked Parker. France can't do that when the situation is reverse.

[Jon_Koncak]

Batum can only dunk and shoot an open three. Features which are very valuable in NBA Live 2001.

You know who else can dunk and shoot an open three?About ehm..every professional basketball player above let's say 1.90..Mike Bramos can dunk and can shoot an open three,same goes for let's say Cenk Akyol or Germany's Schweitelm..how come aren't these players starters in NBA and Batum is?In other words,i don't know what in the world you're talkin about.

[Luíz for 3]

Kirilenko

I agree. But Kirilenko is an NBA style player. Athletic and quick, dunks the ball and blocks many shots, all the attributes Deschain doesn't like.

Rudy, Hedo, Kirilenko, Khryapa, Monya, San Emeterio, (Omit the NBA'ers, if you want "in europe") and I can count more. And even more with players who can play at SF. -If we can determine betterness linearly.

Kirilenko yes. Hedo maybe (more experient). The others no way.

How many teams are in full strength this year? Spain had won the gold even before the tournament started

Turkey and Lithuania destroyed France last year when they only lacked Parker. France can't do that when the situation is reverse.

The same old story, the absentees... Please, this EC brought almost every european player. Considering title contenders, NT's like Slovenia, Greece or Lithuania were the most affected with this issue. Turkey missed Erden, France missed Mahinmi or Turiaf...
If Spain eventually win tomorrow the championship, it's not due to the others absentees, it's due to one of the best teams european basketball has ever seen...

[Raze Lupin]

You have no respect....

Batum can only dunk and shoot an open three. Features which are very valuable in NBA Live 2001.

I mean, they are easily resolved against an organized opponent because they are tactically and mentally inferior to that opponent. They can only stay that level as long as they can play their basketball.


Why are the coaches like Pesic, Messina, Obradovic, Ivkovic, Pianigiani, Repesa, Blatt, Kazlauskas, Gershon or even Scariolo regarded highly in Europe? What's the meaning of coaching if basketball means to dunk after a pass?

If I wanted to see dunks and ballhandling moves, I'd go and watch streetball, where there's no spark of intelligence.

Basketball is a team sport. What's the meaning of having useless peons to wait in the offence when they all could have a role in the offense?

In football Brazil and Germany are both have legendary histories. They also play very different styles. Brazilians are known for their creative plays and fancy dribbling/foot work. Germans are more known for their system of play. Both are respected. I believe your view of "proper" basketball is very narrow. You claim one style of basketball is "intelligence" while over simplifying another style of play. Your view of Basketball is to narrow. The world of basketball is larger than your view. Remember this is an "international" competition so there will be different styles of play.

1. First you are over simplifying the French team. You show a weak understanding of game philosophy, strategy and match-up tactics. Rule 1 is play to your personal strength and your opponents weakness.

2. If the French were so easy to deal with by so called superior "tactical" opponents it would have happened. France has only lost 1 game. Looking at the French numbers you see they have + ratings in all the important stats on both defense and offense. They play good basketball.

3.Ball handling is a fundamental part of basketball. From killer crossovers to Euro-step. Protecting the ball is fundamental. If you don't respect ball handling skills then you can not appreciate basketball. Dunking is scoring if its there take it. Criticizing a team for having superior ball handling skills is kind of silly.

You have no respect for basketball....

[Luíz for 3]

In football Brazil and Germany are both have legendary histories. They also play very different styles. Brazilians are known for their creative plays and fancy dribbling/foot work. Germans are more known for their system of play. Both are respected. I believe your view of "proper" basketball is very narrow. You claim one style of basketball is "intelligence" while over simplifying another style of play. Your view of Basketball is to narrow. The world of basketball is larger than your view. Remember this is an "international" competition so there will be different styles of play.

1. First you are over simplifying the French team. You show a weak understanding of game philosophy, strategy and match-up tactics. Rule 1 is play to your personal strength and your opponents weakness.

2. If the French were so easy to deal with by so called superior "tactical" opponents it would have happened. France has only lost 1 game. Looking at the French numbers you see they have + ratings in all the important stats on both defense and offense. They play good basketball.

3.Ball handling is a fundamental part of basketball. From killer crossovers to Euro-step. Protecting the ball is fundamental. If you don't respect ball handling skills then you can not appreciate basketball. Dunking is scoring if its there take it. Criticizing a team for having superior ball handling skills is kind of silly.

You have no respect for basketball....

Great great great comment

[damelo]

I wouldn't count the previous game against Spain too much for my analysis, for obvious reasons. I will insist that a good % of long range shoots (not only 3pointers) is the key to win this game.

Well, I completely agree. the 5-6 and more meters jumpers are key to France sucess.

I do not think you have to throw to trash everything we saw in the previous Spain vs France game, especially concerning what it shows in terms of match-ups.

In the previous game, I still don't think anybody entered the court thinking he would play to loose. I really think the Gasols were playing seriously, and we saw in the following games they are not so high. Pau is not anymore scoring with 80%+ accuracy. Which is what makes him unstoppable.
They did not defend so well on both Traoré and Séraphin. So, i do think these guys can provide good minutes if needed. And may be as useful as Noah in such a context, because France will need to be able to provoke fouls if they can, especially from Marc and Pau. Then, I guess they can deal with Ibaka or Reyes decently.
For sure, if Pau recovers his confidence... It'll be tough.
On the outsides, France have very good one on one defenders. They will probably hold on for a few minutes Navarro. But the whole game? this guy can be very cold, it happened before, but, not so often. And in this team, there are other guys that can take the relay if he is cold. If I was coaching Spain, I'd try to get some actions going early on for Rudy. He can be at Navarro's level, he has been a few years ago before going to Portland. he is not a 3, he is a pure 2. Because they might need him.
On France side, let's first talk Batum: He has been good so far. He made the open 3s(that is the most important, the contested ones... This team should not take one!), made midranges shots, from high post coming out of screens, and has been efficient rebounding, penetrating, etc... Well, he might be limited, but what he does, he does well. Gelabale may play. He brings the same kind of stuff Batum brings. He simply did not get the chance to show it in the NBA. But was respected in Real when he was still very young. De Colo, I hope he continues the same way he is playing recently. He brings his experience of ACB/EL game, and his natural talent to score. he learnt how to organize a team in Europe. He manages to play with Parker now, and both having close profiles, they can be very dangerous if able to share the ball correctly. They have been in these last games. Maybe Llull is a better match up against him than Navarro, for Spain.
Parker is playing freely, without any injury. He's just doing what he knows to do. His match-up with Calderon is interesting, but I don't think it is key to this game, since Calderon is excellent to print rythm, but the Spanish team plays too much on their troika, and will not limit Parker enough.

So, the keys should be:
- Outside shooting for France: It will not be a problem. Lots of players hit the 5m jump shots regularly in this team, including centers traoré and Séraphin.
- rebounding: Spain is very tall, with backcourt players taking rebounds(Rubio, San Emeterio and Sada if they play). France has shown ability to beat taller teams in rebound(Russia, Turkey), thanks to great athleticism and second time rebounds(the first guy kicks the ball out of the tall opponent, then a second one controls, it needs everybody to be aware, and slows down next possession). The one who wins this battle probably takes the game.
- The Fire Factor: Most probably Navarro, maybe Rudy, or the whole Spanish Team. If they manage to get one of these incredible passages, there is no way you beat them if the game is close. France has been a good 3rd quarter team so far, but Spain has been stellar in these 3rd quarters, especially Navarro. If he takes fire again, he is the MVP. Else, it should be McCalebb.

[adamosmaki]

in scariolo we trust.

Allez les bleus,you can do it.

more likely in king Juan Carlos we trust

[damelo]

Basketball is most popular in US. (not the most popular sport in US) They have an established growth program and they have the 3rd most population on Earth as a country.

How can this suggest that raw talents and basketball brains are non existant in Europe? And how can this Dunk basketball attract them to play as they should?

Look, every body agrees that in France, for most of the deceny, we had an issue in formation of young ballers. Too much stress was put on athleticism, while not enough on offensive fundamentals. It brought excellent youth teams results, with players dominating their opponents physically, but who, for a large part of them, were not able to translate to Pro Ball.
That's why, despite the presence of a Federal school of basketball for players from 16 to 18, playing in 3rd div by decree of the Federation, some of the new talents did not go through this formation. Batum, De Colo, Causeur(who only joined national club at 16, before he was playing for his village at department level), Beaubois went through the club formation, and maybe translated better to the Senior level.
Yet, amongst these players, some are incredibly gifted athletically!
Batum goes so high, that he dunks easily over a defender where a less athletical player may not be able to dunk the ball. And so what? He should just make a lay-up?
Batum followed in France a trajectory close to Gallinari in Italy. At the same age, they were the official leaders of their teams, just before going to NBA. To reach this position, you have to be able to do more than ,just dunking or shooting open 3s. He has the fundamentals. He knows what his role is. And he does what he came here for.
Spain also has its dunking freak. Rudy calmed down, but when he was younger in Badalona, he had his backdoor alley-oop every game. It was showtime! He was taking 3s after dribbling 12 seconds during a possession.

Dunking is just a weapon in the game of a basketball player. Some players can't shoot the 3s, some can't dunk? Would Shaq whine and say it's unfair that RayRay makes 3s all the time?

And actually, Europeans proved as good as Americans when it comes to dunking. Check the Slam Nation and the contests organized by Kadour Ziani.