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Thread: USSR vs Yugoslavia in Eurobasket 2011.

  1. #41
    Senior Member NorCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post
    kukoc wasn't bench player in bulls. bench players were cafey and wenigton that didn't have big role in team. lot ofense was built trough toni hands. and before mj comback phill jackson pland to make toni bulls prime playmeker

    petrovic was benched in portland, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't play more. drexler was tellin portland lost grat player when they traded him. and fact he was 3rd best sg in nba leatter behind mj and clyde prves that.

    dino with 20-10 lead medicore celtics to playoffs befor his injury

    of corse magic helped divac, but if you didn't know divasc before going to nba was sometimes used as prime pg and ballhandler in partizan

    all this guys made it during period where europians were much less trusted and had to pruve much more than euros today

    of corse dream team was better, but defenetly this guys would have chance cought them unguarded
    I also think that Petrovic, Radja and Kukoc were underrated when they played in the NBA.

    I disagree that they would have caught the Dream Team by surprise only because Jordan and a couple of the other guys wouldn't have let it happen.

    There was more of a swagger back then of our players, they intended to show their dominance, kind of like Kobe brought to our Beijing team (when he knocked down Gasol to start the Spain/USA game). Its a little bit of an old school attitude.

    Even if lots of the US guys didn't know much about other teams in those '92 games they knew that Croatia was the biggest threat and they knew Kukoc and they went into that game more than other games with the purpose to dominate Croatia and Kukoc in particular.

    So, hypothetically speaking, I think our team would have been very prepared against a Yugoslavia team knowing that they would be the biggest threats.

  2. #42
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    The supposed overwhelming 92' Dream Team's advantage over other teams is way overblown today. The simple fact is that most of the teams didn't even try to stand up to them and the games resembled more of some All-Star exhibitions than true battles. Nobody had the balls to play hard defense on those NBA "gods", like it was thought of at those times. Some players were even asking autographs after the games like some children asking for a candy from their mother Everything started to change in 1996 Olympics and eventually that myth was destroyed in 2000 Sydney, when single Sharas shot could bring mighty "gods" to their knees (well, Tomjanovic was on his knees already, but some dubious late game calls from the refs and lithuanians choking at the free throw line saved their asses). And we all know about 2002, 2004 and 2006 already...

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    ^ no they don't stand a chance againt Dream Team. 50 percent, are you kidding me? That team did not even call a single timeout and beat everybody playing around. Jordan was not on attack mode , You know how strong is that team Drexler, Stockton, Malone Pippen and Robinson came off the bench. Petrovic was Drexler backup at Portland. Magic taught Divac at LA so many things. Kukoc was a bench player at Chicago. Dream Team can play their worst and still massacre those Yugos. Divac can't flop his way, Magic would look him into the eye and Divac will be nervous to even try.

    I think Spain and Yugo is good matchup. I favor Spain in a 7 game series but in one game anything can happen.
    Questions for you: Have you watched Yugoslavia play and how familiar are you with any of the players beside Kukoč, Divac, Petrović?
    I'm not convinced that you know enough about this topic.

    I agree with you that Dream team had incredible depth, surely the best basketball team this planet ever had and Yugoslavia would have hard time against them. But, I can't agree with you that Spain could beat Yugoslavia for the same reason Yugoslavia couldn't match Dream team and that's an incredible depth for European standards.

    Without Pau and Navarro, Spain is considerably weaker. These two give so much strength and they are a class above everyone on that team. The loss of Fernandez, Garbajosa or Calderon (or someone else, take a pick) is something they can cope with, as it was proven several times already.

  4. #44
    Senior Member NorCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    The supposed overwhelming 92' Dream Team's advantage over other teams is way overblown today. The simple fact is that most of the teams didn't even try to stand up to them and the games resembled more of some All-Star exhibitions than true battles. Nobody had the balls to play hard defense on those NBA "gods", like it was thought of at those times. Some players were even asking autographs after the games like some children asking for a candy from their mother Everything started to change in 1996 Olympics and eventually that myth was destroyed in 2000 Sydney, when single Sharas shot could bring mighty "gods" to their knees (well, Tomjanovic was on his knees already, but some dubious late game calls from the refs and lithuanians choking at the free throw line saved their asses). And we all know about 2002, 2004 and 2006 already...
    That's true that in '92 the other teams didn't seem to give a full effort but neither did the U.S. team.

    You can say everything started to change in '96 but look at the average margin of victory of that U.S. team, it was something like 35-40 points a game. Even the most dominant European teams of all time never did that at the Olympics.

    Anyways, please don't misrepresent what I am trying to say. No one is saying the U.S. teams are currently unbeatable and of course the U.S. lost 7 games between 2002-2006 but to say that the Dream Team had a 50% chance of being beat by a full Yugoslavia team I think is incorrect.

  5. #45
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
    That's true that in '92 the other teams didn't seem to give a full effort but neither did the U.S. team.

    You can say everything started to change in '96 but look at the average margin of victory of that U.S. team, it was something like 35-40 points a game. Even the most dominant European teams of all time never did that at the Olympics.

    Anyways, please don't misrepresent what I am trying to say. No one is saying the U.S. teams are currently unbeatable and of course the U.S. lost 7 games between 2002-2006 but to say that the Dream Team had a 50% chance of being beat by a full Yugoslavia team I think is incorrect.
    yup, but in those days FIBA basketball was still in it's infant stages as compared to NBA - players were simply not prepared physically to deal with NBA superstars and their speed and athleticism. So not only 92 Dream Team had the best players, they also had the best athletes bar none. It's easy to look dominant when you have huge athletic advantage in every position on the floor anyway

  6. #46
    Senior Member NorCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    yup, but in those days FIBA basketball was still in it's infant stages as compared to NBA - players were simply not prepared physically to deal with NBA superstars and their speed and athleticism. So not only 92 Dream Team had the best players, they also had the best athletes bar none. It's easy to look dominant when you have huge athletic advantage in every position on the floor anyway
    Yep, agree. European basketball has come a long way in a relatively short amount of time.

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    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
    I don't think your hypothetical team would win more than 1 time out of 10 against the Dream Team. Of the ones I've seen play on the hypothetical '92 Yugoslavia team I like, but c'mon. The majority of those guys played at the '88 Olympics and they lost to the Soviets in the gold medal game and weren't winning games by anything close to Dream Team margins (40+ points) which has never been duplicated before or since in the Olympics.

    Also, the NBA and thus the Dream Team was going through what most experts believe to be the strongest period in NBA history. I've mentioned this in another post but every guy on that team outside of Drexler, Mullin and Laettner are now considered one of the top 30 players in the history of the NBA.

    I would pay good money to have seen the hypothetical matchup of Spain v Yugoslavia though.
    in 88. majority of them were kids

    89. and leatter didn't wining by 40, but with 15

    of corse, dream team would be better, but leats assume they started sleepey like in 92. finals. could then much deeper yugo team surprise
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  8. #48
    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    yup, but in those days FIBA basketball was still in it's infant stages as compared to NBA - players were simply not prepared physically to deal with NBA superstars and their speed and athleticism. So not only 92 Dream Team had the best players, they also had the best athletes bar none. It's easy to look dominant when you have huge athletic advantage in every position on the floor anyway
    petrovic mesured vertical in 89. was 1m, kukoc in games was dunking 360, duble pumps, aley ups etc. radja was dunking all over players, divac had no problem grabing rebound, drible evryone and dunk 1m in foul line, i know you remeber danilovic over sabonis, vrankovic had no problems blockin mj, whille zdovc was athetic as diamantidis today

    wtf. athleticisam you are talking about
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post
    kukoc wasn't bench player in bulls. bench players were cafey and wenigton that didn't have big role in team. lot ofense was built trough toni hands. and before mj comback phill jackson pland to make toni bulls prime playmeker

    petrovic was benched in portland, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't play more. drexler was tellin portland lost grat player when they traded him. and fact he was 3rd best sg in nba leatter behind mj and clyde prves that.

    dino with 20-10 lead medicore celtics to playoffs befor his injury

    of corse magic helped divac, but if you didn't know divasc before going to nba was sometimes used as prime pg and ballhandler in partizan

    all this guys made it during period where europians were much less trusted and
    had to pruve much more than euros today

    of corse dream team was better, but defenetly this guys would have chance cought them unguarded
    Sorry I've seen Radja play and he's good but he's not Barkley or Malone.
    Nique led Boston and Radja posted a very good 17 and 8 not 20 and 10 to overblow your argument. Celtics only went playoff once during Radja career and that was when Wilkins was there. But to compare him to Barkley and Malone give me a break.

    Petrovic could have been a great player but thats hypothetical. True he was the leader of the Nets who went to playoff twice in his career but lost in the first round and so was Reggie Lewis who actually get past first round and his team with a better record. Actually New Jersey have a better record after Petrovic and Anderson and Coleman became All Stars. And you can make an argument that Petrovic was the 3rd best shooting guard in his prime but I also can make an argument on Dumars.

    Sorry Kukoc was a good player but he was a role player in Chicago. Jordan and Pippen has won it before without him. He helped Chicago and he was very good in his role offf the bench. Also Dream Team was prepared for anything, they knew Kukoc was good so Pippen checked him and Kukoc was checkmated.

    And Divac was a solid player but not a franchise player who can lead his team his team into championship. Admiral can't even do it and and he was way better than Divac.

    These Yugos comparison to Dream Team is a joke. They will play Dream Team 10 times and they will lose 10 times by average of 30 points. On their best day they will lose 15 points and at their worst they will get beaten up like 50 points. If Jordan was motivated enough, there's no one on that Yugo squad can stop him.

  10. #50
    Senior Member wardjdim's Avatar
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    Ok, so just because we have in this forum people who haven't even watched the Yugoslavian team ever play, we will have to forget what common sense means

    The Yugoslavian NT before 1992 is either the best team of all-time, or top-3 at worse. The other two are USA 2008 and USA 1992, in no specific order. Focusing on individual talent and what the Yugoslavian players (who would beat the best Spain possible 8 out of 10 times) did in the NBA is something that has nothing to do with the discussion

    Southpaw, you just proved that if someone is from Philipinnes, they probably don't know much about basketball besides the NBA. Do you really understand the international rules? Have you watched this team playing?

    NorCal, if someone is from the US could be far from understanding international basketball and especially during the period that this Yugoslavian generation was in charge. Yugoslavia in 1988 got half of this roster at ages 20-21. I think that when they were 24-25, they were better. Anyway the 3-year period 1989-91 was 3 golds, no losses, pure dominance and seriously, below their true prime. Take all the talent in the world, even with a better coach than Chuck Daly and I am not sure you can beat a continuously developing generation and a team dominant for so long, with the "no-one can beat us" mentality altogether

    Anyway, it can be 50%, it can be longer, it can be less. But the discussion can only be on this level. Good note is that Serbia (World Champions 1998 and 2002, Euro Champs 1995, 1997, 2001) would stand no chance against them and same goes for Spain (World Champs 2006, Euro Champs 2009, 2001), despite both teams' great chemistry

    pohani komarac, Bodiroga is of course the 2nd best SF of the past 20 years in Europe, but back then, as a teen, you can't compare his value to Perasovic who was a scoring machine and also a great passer, approaching his peak. Still Bodiroga would make a 2nd Yugoslavia team for sure. Look at his stats during the 1991-92 season http://bit.ly/qSvr4a I think he would at least contend as a 12th player in this roster



    Regarding Toni Kukoc. In any other team, he would be a superstar. The fact that the Bulls didn't need him to be one to win so many titles proves their true value as a team. I pity the people who haven't seen him playing in Jugoplastika

    Radja was a 20-10 machine, regardless the defensive liability. All-star level player

    No need to get into further discussion about Savic or Zdovc and all the other players that the NBA fans don't know (not even by name). Just, when someone doesn't know a topic, hasn't watch a team playing or hasn't heard the names of the players, it's better not to post about it. A friendly tip
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Sorry I've seen Radja play and he's good but he's not Barkley or Malone.
    Nique led Boston and Radja posted a very good 17 and 8 not 20 and 10 to overblow your argument. Celtics only went playoff once during Radja career and that was when Wilkins was there. But to compare him to Barkley and Malone give me a break.

    Petrovic could have been a great player but thats hypothetical. True he was the leader of the Nets who went to playoff twice in his career but lost in the first round and so was Reggie Lewis who actually get past first round and his team with a better record. Actually New Jersey have a better record after Petrovic and Anderson and Coleman became All Stars. And you can make an argument that Petrovic was the 3rd best shooting guard in his prime but I also can make an argument on Dumars.

    Sorry Kukoc was a good player but he was a role player in Chicago. Jordan and Pippen has won it before without him. He helped Chicago and he was very good in his role offf the bench. Also Dream Team was prepared for anything, they knew Kukoc was good so Pippen checked him and Kukoc was checkmated.

    And Divac was a solid player but not a franchise player who can lead his team his team into championship. Admiral can't even do it and and he was way better than Divac.

    These Yugos comparison to Dream Team is a joke. They will play Dream Team 10 times and they will lose 10 times by average of 30 points. On their best day they will lose 15 points and at their worst they will get beaten up like 50 points. If Jordan was motivated enough, there's no one on that Yugo squad can stop him.

    what a bad post, by someone who watches only nba did you herd about krešo ćosić? probably best european center ever? he never played in nba (although he was drafted) and he was like another universe to all other european players in his time, much biger talent then gasol, but you can't compare nba standards to european players from 20, 30 years ago and now. kukoč, petrović and rađa if they play now would certainly be in nba all star team every year

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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpekaustas View Post
    what a bad post, by someone who watches only nba did you herd about krešo ćosić? probably best european center ever? he never played in nba (although he was drafted) and he was like another universe to all other european players in his time, much biger talent then gasol, but you can't compare nba standards to european players from 20, 30 years ago and now. kukoč, petrović and rađa if they play now would certainly be in nba all star team every year
    Give me a break, if Europe was so good then why would someone like McAdoo on a tail end of his career led a team to a Euroleague Title with a 26 and 10. Sorry the gap wad so much wider in the 80s and 90s. And I also forgot Nique did the same thing at the twilight of his career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Give me a break, if Europe was so good then why would someone like McAdoo on a tail end of his career led a team to a Euroleague with a 26 and 10. Sorry the gap wad so much wider in the 80s and 90s.
    betwen who?

    yugoslavian basketball was 20 years ahed of his time if not more

    we are not talking about europe, but yugoslavia in that period

    since we can compare nba today and from that time let's chack some facts from nba's most physical era (not inputing subjectivive opinion)

    petrovic 20+ pt scorer in lower level playoff team
    kukoc 13+4+4 in greatest team ever
    radja 20+10 in week team
    divac 13+9 during most of his career
    danilovic 12-14 in lover level playoff team

    vrakovic, paspalj, tabak, djorjevic didn't have much impact

    well, i don't see any team today with such "nba depth"

    and how much euro basketball was ahed of europe says that bench warmer zdravko radulovic was 30+ player during 90is.

    not to metnion players like komazec or bodiroga

    so "week euro basketball" doesn't stand for that team

    same as for cosic. cosic was 30 years ahed of his time. he had milion dollar ofer in 70is from lakers, but didn't wannt to play in nba because he couldn't play for yugoslavia. same would go for drazen dalipagic
    Last edited by pohani komarac; 09-23-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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    Senior Member wardjdim's Avatar
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    Regarding Kukoc in 1987, 5 years before 1992, when he was 19. Miles away from his prime. This is hardly a role player
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP5K7...1&feature=fvwp

    pohani komarac, don't reply to this poster by backing up Yugoslavia. There is no point. We are here to make arguments, not to doubt the facts. It's obvious this doesn't know much about the sport or his knowledge is one-sided. No reason to explain the obvious, as nowadays there is very good and free global information. If he wants to learn some things about the sport, I am sure he will find the right way to do it. We can also wish him good luck and remind him that basketball is a team sport where the main things to combine are good organization, individual talent, work and team chemistry. It is not only one of them, as some people in this world tend to think
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    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Sorry I've seen Radja play and he's good but he's not Barkley or Malone.
    Nique led Boston and Radja posted a very good 17 and 8 not 20 and 10 to overblow your argument. Celtics only went playoff once during Radja career and that was when Wilkins was there. But to compare him to Barkley and Malone give me a break.

    Petrovic could have been a great player but thats hypothetical. True he was the leader of the Nets who went to playoff twice in his career but lost in the first round and so was Reggie Lewis who actually get past first round and his team with a better record. Actually New Jersey have a better record after Petrovic and Anderson and Coleman became All Stars. And you can make an argument that Petrovic was the 3rd best shooting guard in his prime but I also can make an argument on Dumars.

    Sorry Kukoc was a good player but he was a role player in Chicago. Jordan and Pippen has won it before without him. He helped Chicago and he was very good in his role offf the bench. Also Dream Team was prepared for anything, they knew Kukoc was good so Pippen checked him and Kukoc was checkmated.

    And Divac was a solid player but not a franchise player who can lead his team his team into championship. Admiral can't even do it and and he was way better than Divac.

    These Yugos comparison to Dream Team is a joke. They will play Dream Team 10 times and they will lose 10 times by average of 30 points. On their best day they will lose 15 points and at their worst they will get beaten up like 50 points. If Jordan was motivated enough, there's no one on that Yugo squad can stop him.
    before colman and anderson developed nets had 1-11 without petro when he was injured

    anway

    who said radja was better than malone, divac than robinson and so on?

    sure dream team was hell better, nobady questions that. just that team for sure could suprise dream team if they uderestimate them like they uderestimate croatia during start of finals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post
    betwen who?

    yugoslavian basketball was 20 years ahed of his time

    and cosic was 30 years ahed of his time. he had milion dollar ofer in 70is from lakers, but didn't wannt to play in nba because he couldn't play for yugoslavia
    Another tale. How the heck Cosic got offered 1 million when Lakers best player Kareem was only making 700,000 a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post
    before colman and anderson developed nets had 1-11 without petro when he was injured

    anway

    who said radja was better than malone, divac than robinson and so on?

    sure dream team was hell better, nobady questions that. just that team for sure could suprise dream team if they uderestimate them like they uderestimate croatia during start of finals.
    Anderson was also injured on 1-11.

    Also college players surprised the Dream Team halfway but they still got massacred.

    One dude said 50 % of Yugos chance? So in another way it is evenly match. In what world are they evenly match.

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    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Anderson was also injured on 1-11.

    Also college players surprised the Dream Team halfway but they still got massacred.

    One dude said 50 % of Yugos chance? So in another way it is evenly match. In what world are they evenly match.
    was i that dude?
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    Quote Originally Posted by wardjdim View Post
    Regarding Kukoc in 1987, 5 years before 1992, when he was 19. Miles away from his prime. This is hardly a role player
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP5K7...1&feature=fvwp

    pohani komarac, don't reply to this poster by backing up Yugoslavia. There is no point. We are here to make arguments, not to doubt the facts. It's obvious this doesn't know much about the sport or his knowledge is one-sided. No reason to explain the obvious, as nowadays there is very good and free global information. If he wants to learn some things about the sport, I am sure he will find the right way to do it. We can also wish him good luck and remind him that basketball is a team sport where the main things to combine are good organization, individual talent, work and team chemistry. It is not only one of them, as some people in this world tend to think

    Against what competition? I've seen college players who dominated college like Adam Morrison but they coould not do it in the NBA.

    Are you saying Dream Team can't play team ball and have chemistry. Sorry none of these players are the Iverson, Marbury type of players who need to dominate the ball to be effective.
    Last edited by Southpaw; 09-23-2011 at 09:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Another tale. How the heck Cosic got offered 1 million when Lakers best player Kareem was only making 700,000 a year.
    that wasn't for one year
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