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Thread: fall of "yugoslavian" basketball

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picek View Post


    2. Croatia - kicked out from the tournament before the real tournament even started - is there really anything needed to say about our performance? o.k., it is not a medal contender team (eventhough I as a hardcore fan always believe in their potential and year after year I get more and more dissapointed) but being kicked out after group stage. unacceptable.
    yes, Tomas and Ukić were a loss but come on. every team has that. the biggest dissapointment of all yugoslavian teams... for sure and not only just for me.. what is even worse for basketball in Croatia they have lost all support even from those hardcore fans like I am..
    biggest issue: no team play, no set offence, unexisting defense. and the thing I hate the most simply no passion in the game, no heart..
    future: for the last 16 years our future was "bright" and for the last 16 year we managed to do nothing or almost nothing. we are claiming we have a bright future.. with no proper coaching both in NT and the clubs, with Radić at helm of our basketball there is simply no future..
    OG history: after two OG tournaments in the 90's Repeša took us to Beijing in 2008. but we are now out of the picture.. again.. oh well, I can atleast use the repeat button on the 1992. OG final tape over and over again..

    I'm not sure that croatia had so bright future in last 10 years. we always pretend that we have big talents that was ruined by radiic and our federation. but is it true? since 2002. and start of back to back u - 16 tournaments croatia before 2010. played only once 1/2 finals of u16 eurobasket. talented players win golds and not 6. or 8. or 12. places.

    in last 2 yeras we won back to back golds. now these player are REAL talents. we never have so much talented players packed in 2,3 years. and on top of that we have 2 projected superstars. and if you ask me, i am ready to bet that croatia will came close to repeat serbian 4 in row u 16 gold medals. we have realy great 96. and 97. generations.


    is radics guilty that tomic is 217 cm big girl, or that tomas have role player mentality. whether the feb president guilty that rubio became mediocre pleyer instead superstar? now look at the spanish bbal as for example. on the surface looks like perfect system. great senior team, lot of u medals, big talents.... but if u scratch surface there is pau gasol and big big hole. a team that needs big reffere help to win 1/4 finals, ready to lose of anyone. and exept purchased montenegrian there is no superstar talent.

    croatia have and always will have good players. but only teams with SUPERSTARS win medals continuously. we need our pau gasol to win eurobasket. system can produce good players but superstars are born to be superstars. you can not produce one. in 2011 we have better players then in 1992. or at lkeast bigger number of good players. but we dont have petro, kukoc and radja



    on topic. yougolavian basketball did not fall. she is "only" separated in 6 pieces. connect that pieces and you will have great bball nation

  2. #22
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    Bosnia once was THE factory of european basketball reasons that's not the case anymore are well known so I won't be repeating them.

    Well... The worst thing going on to ex-Yu are the coaches. Basicaly all the best coaches are abroad with only few of them as Pešić (Zvezda) or Sagadin (Helios) ever returning back to their native enviroments, while the ones "in a rise" as Džikić, Spahija or Zdovc are gone pretty fast. A lot of knowledge is getting lost this way, knowledge that would get passed down to players as well as the coaches.
    2nd worst thing is the weakness of the top clubs.
    Manager doing what's best for a player are fairytales I can't believe how many players actually believe. Some of the top talents get's sold to foreign clubs where they aren't receiving enough minutes (yet, their native players do) and unless they proove themselves a superstar material they will be treated as completely expendable.
    There is a long list of those youngsters leaving abroad too early, noone can claim some player would be a superstar if not leaving abroad too early, but might just be the case with some of them.

    Yet, as long as the club competitions as Adriatic league will keep improving, no need to worry imo.

  3. #23
    Senior Member UMUT_FB_LAL's Avatar
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    I don't have an attitude, but you should see Croatia reaching the 2008 games as an exception rather than a normality

    Serbia might've missed the Olympic games for the second time in a row, but the two tournament before this they were top 2 and top 4

    If 2009's Eurobasket would offer spots for the Olympics then they would be there, so you have to have some luck too.. It's the same Eurobasket, in 2009 it doesn't help you, in 2011 it does..

    And I don't think the Olympic Games are the greatest basketball tournament, because 1: it isn't just for basketball, it is one of the many sports and 2: there are very few teams and not even the greatest twelve in the world, and great contenders can't be there because of a bad year

    The World Championship is a better tournament because it has more teams and muccchhh more cumulative quality, but the Olympics are the most prestigious one, because the Americans say so
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  4. #24
    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMUT_FB_LAL View Post
    Bosnia and Montenegro never were great, Macedonia is having its best year ever, Croatia hasn't been relevant since Drazen passed away, Slovenia contends in Eurobasket every once in a while and that's all they'll ever do..

    Yugoslavian basketball means Serbia..
    They reached the final in 2009 and the final four in 2010, just because they had a lesser year, which is completely normal, it doesn't mean bball is on the decline

    Very opportunistic thread


    since drazen past away croatia got 3 medals

    and i still wonder how it would look if we didn't have so many absentes and if our federation worked normally since radic got inte federation

    since 96. olympics croatia only in 05. played with full rooster where we were robbed big time

    and this could be team that would be contender till let say 2007

    just for sample 99. and 01. teams could look like

    mulamerovic, alanovic, giricek, perasovic, komazec, rimac, z. radulovic, marcelic, kukoc, n. radulovic, golemac, radja, vujcic, prkacin, tabak, kovacic

    insted lot of this guys players like henjak, jure ruzic, tomeljak, ivan donald maric

    slovenia wasn't strong during ex yugo, but since somwere 02-04., they are haveing probably most talent from all ex yugo teams, but they are consistantly underachiving

    most euro teams just started dealing with absentees of kind croatia, serbia, slovenia are dealing over 15 years
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  5. #25
    Senior Member UMUT_FB_LAL's Avatar
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    And excuse me if I seem to not give Bosnia or Croatia enough credit, I'm just 22
    Since I've been watching Serbia has been the greatest ex-Yu country, followed by Slovenia.. I know very little about the older times
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  6. #26

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    There is no fall in Yugoslavian basketball. Macedonia is here to help by winning the bronze medal

  7. #27
    Senior Member Picek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMUT_FB_LAL View Post

    The World Championship is a better tournament because it has more teams and muccchhh more cumulative quality, but the Olympics are the most prestigious one, because the Americans say so
    going offtopic..
    world championship has much more cumulative quality then what, OG?
    with three teams from Africa and 4 from Asia, really? cumulative quality...
    if you already want to compare quality then compare EC or FIBA Americas with OG.. but not world championship..
    btw. I'm not an american and I say olympics are more prestigious..
    probably every professional athlete on the world will say so as well..
    but I can see why you think differently so I won't continue with the debate over it..
    "Heja, heja Cibosi, hrabri kao vukovi,

    heja, heja cibosi, vodite nas k pobjedi. "

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post


    since drazen past away croatia got 3 medals

    and i still wonder how it would look if we didn't have so many absentes and if our federation worked normally since radic got inte federation

    since 96. olympics croatia only in 05. played with full rooster where we were robbed big time

    and this could be team that would be contender till let say 2007

    just for sample 99. and 01. teams could look like

    mulamerovic, alanovic, giricek, perasovic, komazec, rimac, z. radulovic, marcelic, kukoc, n. radulovic, golemac, radja, vujcic, prkacin, tabak, kovacic

    insted lot of this guys players like henjak, jure ruzic, tomeljak, ivan donald maric

    slovenia wasn't strong during ex yugo, but since somwere 02-04., they are haveing probably most talent from all ex yugo teams, but they are consistantly underachiving

    most euro teams just started dealing with absentees of kind croatia, serbia, slovenia are dealing over 15 years
    agree. we could only imagine what woult be if croatia played with ful roster between 1997. and 2001. ind ahat would happen if giricek, sesar, vujcic, prkacin and mulaomerovic have opportunity to learn from kukoc, radja, komazec... and in 2005. after lamonica and company robbery giricek and vujcic do same. and again planinic, pop, tomas, ukic... stayed alone without class players

  9. #29
    Senior Member UMUT_FB_LAL's Avatar
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    The World Championships have a higher number of quality teams, so the cumulative quality is greater

    And no, I do not think this because we were second last year, that way I can say that you defend the Olympics because of 1992, stop it five
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  10. #30
    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMUT_FB_LAL View Post
    I don't have an attitude, but you should see Croatia reaching the 2008 games as an exception rather than a normality

    Serbia might've missed the Olympic games for the second time in a row, but the two tournament before this they were top 2 and top 4

    If 2009's Eurobasket would offer spots for the Olympics then they would be there, so you have to have some luck too.. It's the same Eurobasket, in 2009 it doesn't help you, in 2011 it does..

    And I don't think the Olympic Games are the greatest basketball tournament, because 1: it isn't just for basketball, it is one of the many sports and 2: there are very few teams and not even the greatest twelve in the world, and great contenders can't be there because of a bad year

    The World Championship is a better tournament because it has more teams and muccchhh more cumulative quality, but the Olympics are the most prestigious one, because the Americans say so
    sice last year absentess this year ec is higher than last year wc

    and if no nonsense caled willd card it should be croatia that should play in 2008., WC, not turkey

    croatia finished 7th in 05. after huge robbery vs. spain over turkey, and trashed turkey in their matchup. still from marketing reasons italy and turkey got WC, not Croatia

    so we were more relevant then Turkey in those years
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  11. #31
    Senior Member UMUT_FB_LAL's Avatar
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    What has that got to do with it though?

    I don't say anything about Turkey and just talk about the Balkan countries, where does this comparison with Turkey come from all of a sudden?
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  12. #32
    Senior Member NorCal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMUT_FB_LAL View Post
    I don't have an attitude, but you should see Croatia reaching the 2008 games as an exception rather than a normality

    Serbia might've missed the Olympic games for the second time in a row, but the two tournament before this they were top 2 and top 4

    If 2009's Eurobasket would offer spots for the Olympics then they would be there, so you have to have some luck too.. It's the same Eurobasket, in 2009 it doesn't help you, in 2011 it does..

    And I don't think the Olympic Games are the greatest basketball tournament, because 1: it isn't just for basketball, it is one of the many sports and 2: there are very few teams and not even the greatest twelve in the world, and great contenders can't be there because of a bad year

    The World Championship is a better tournament because it has more teams and muccchhh more cumulative quality, but the Olympics are the most prestigious one, because the Americans say so
    http://forums.interbasket.net/f71/wh...ded-wbc-14068/

    I think the only evidence that WBC is a better tournament has to do with the # of teams playing because it allows for more of the mid-level European teams to play. I can understand that argument but history still shows that the best European players play the years when Olympic qualifying spots are being fought for. Plus, the best players almost always play during the Olympics but the same is not true for the WBC.

  13. #33
    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMUT_FB_LAL View Post
    What has that got to do with it though?

    I don't say anything about Turkey and just talk about the Balkan countries, where does this comparison with Turkey come from all of a sudden?
    from WC comparison

    and if you go trouhout history croats and serbs dominate in ex yugo teams from 70is to 90is you would find players like like plecas, djerdja, skansi, solman, tvrdic, cosic, petrovic, radja, kukoc, komazec, vrankovic and so on as stars of ex yugo basketball....and from 70is, to 90is it's croatian teams that won 10 internationl titles, and played multiple finals. with smaller sucses bih was also big factor of ex yu basketball. so before you make some statment inform your self
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  14. #34
    Senior Member UMUT_FB_LAL's Avatar
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    Good points, especially about the greatest players
    WBC's cumulative quality is still higher, but the Olympics' average quality is better, mainly because of the best players showing up, although 25% of the teams will be mediocre at best: Tunisia, Asian champion and Great Britain (I still love you guys tho) and maybe Australia

    WBC is much bigger, OG is more exclusive and you're more privileged to be there

    The Olympics certainly have a greater weight, but is it a stronger tournament than the WBC? I think the answer is somewhere in the middle..
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    ^ Your insight is very good. Really though without intending to be dismissive, it's very complicated. You will find much diversity in opinion in each and every country except perhaps Slovenia. We are people that are just not inclined to unity. Unity is like some kind of submission for us. There is even a unique word in the Serbian language, "inat" that can help to understand us. One definition, "an attitude of proud defiance, stubborness and self-preservation - sometimes to the detriment of everyone else or even oneself."

    Please, feel free to discuss politics at non basketball related forums.
    JPF
    Thanks for this domestic insight. I have often wondered about This Ex-yugo mentality BUT never understood why. I didn't know their was a name for it. I deal with many serbs and a few Bosnians, Croats at my University and now career. The "inat" attitude was apparent in most. Especially the men. I always wondered what was going on. Someone should write a book so westerners will know whats going on too

  16. #36
    Senior Member UMUT_FB_LAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post
    from WC comparison

    and if you go trouhout history croats and serbs dominate in ex yugo teams from 70is to 90is you would find players like like plecas, djerdja, skansi, solman, tvrdic, cosic, petrovic, radja, kukoc, komazec, vrankovic and so on as stars of ex yugo basketball....and from 70is, to 90is it's croatian teams that won 10 internationl titles, and played multiple finals. with smaller sucses bih was also big factor of ex yu basketball. so before you make some statment inform your self
    Yeah but I'm talking about what I've seen tho
    Since I've been watching I haven't seen that kind of success, you can't keep going back to 1994 and earlier if you are a great basketball country

    Since I've been watching Croatia hasn't been great except for 2005

    And not to take anything away from those victories, but prizes teams get in this era where basketball has become much more competitive, bigger and kinda global are much more impressing to me than those in the seventies when maybe five countries in Europe played basketball

    I do admire the fact that Croatians and Bosnians had such a big impact in those Yugo successes tho...

    And the fact that Croatia started winning all those medals immediately after it got independent is really impressive and says a lot

    But this century only Serbia and Slovenia have been factors, that's what I'm saying

    Didn't know inat was a Serbian word, we use that in Turkey too
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    I hope Yugoslav basketball will shine again Croatia has very good young generation and I am hopeful about them.Serbia? I don't know... Slovenia will be nothing in the future... Bosna is always looser Bosna... Macedonia?? Maybe after this championship they can attack... Kosovo?? Haha, I think we will have 2-3 players in our national basketball team who has Kosovar origin

  18. #38
    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMUT_FB_LAL View Post
    Yeah but I'm talking about what I've seen tho
    Since I've been watching I haven't seen that kind of success, you can't keep going back to 1994 and earlier if you are a great basketball country

    Since I've been watching Croatia hasn't been great except for 2005

    And not to take anything away from those victories, but prizes teams get in this era where basketball has become much more competitive, bigger and kinda global are much more impressing to me than those in the seventies when maybe five countries in Europe played basketball

    I do admire the fact that Croatians and Bosnians had such a big impact in those Yugo successes tho...

    And the fact that Croatia started winning all those medals immediately after it got independent is really impressive and says a lot

    But this century only Serbia and Slovenia have been factors, that's what I'm saying
    Didn't know inat was a Serbian word, we use that in Turkey too
    yes when talking nt results

    but because of so many absentes croatia was uncompetitive besides 05. and perhaps 08.-09. and 05. was only time we had full squad

    so no you can't say "yugoslavian" basketall is serbian, because at that period croatia and slovenia had player base to compete
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  19. #39
    Senior Member Picek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turk-jugoslav View Post
    Croatia has very good young generation and I am hopeful about them.D
    that is something that is often emphasized by our federation, coach, players..
    but fact is that this team that was playing at EC was 26 years old in average.
    it is probably "young" because most of them had small or none expirience of playing for NT..
    but that is because our coaches are always afraid to put young guns into action..
    even Repeša for whom I have a high oppinion didn't use Tomić at all eventhough at that time he was rocking ibeing 23 years old....
    meanwhile you have Rupnik, Murič, Dragič, (probably the only good thing that will stay behind Maljkovič is giving time to these youngsters) Valenciunas etc. who received playing time..
    "Heja, heja Cibosi, hrabri kao vukovi,

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    Just because Slovenians do not tend to overhype our youngsters at the age of 18 we will be nothing in the future? 91 and 92 generation are pretty promising, we'll get along no worries

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