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Thread: fall of "yugoslavian" basketball

  1. #81
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    it is funny that whole dinaric alps area are filled with tall people adn we still manage to find 3 shortest pg-s on tournament.

    we are joking that short people plays football and actually 99% of our football players ( national team ) are lot taller than our point guards

    it is embarrassing that we dont have much 190 cm+ point guards

  2. #82
    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by euskadi View Post
    it is funny that whole dinaric alps area are filled with tall people adn we still manage to find 3 shortest pg-s on tournament.

    we are joking that short people plays football and actually 99% of our football players ( national team ) are lot taller than our point guards

    it is embarrassing that we dont have much 190 cm+ point guards
    pg is position that asks lot of knowlege. it asks a lot of time and work for pg to realize what he has in him self. pg position is position with bigest competition in world. and there we suck

    some people say you need to born as pg wich is not truth. centars are born. guy grove to 210, you teach him 2-3 moves and you get your self centar. for pg that's not case
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

  3. #83

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    Bjelica would do a better job defending and rebounding at 3, 4 or 5 than either of Serbias current player are able to. Perhaps even on the guard positions.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by euskadi View Post
    it is funny that whole dinaric alps area are filled with tall people adn we still manage to find 3 shortest pg-s on tournament.

    we are joking that short people plays football and actually 99% of our football players ( national team ) are lot taller than our point guards

    it is embarrassing that we dont have much 190 cm+ point guards
    Well, at least you do have 3 PGs on your team... there are only 2 PGs worthy of that name in the whole of Lithuania (not counting unexperienced youth who may show something in the future)... It's embarassing we do not have any <190 cm point guards...

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post
    that is truth

    for what ever reason people who runn our basketball are 100% convinced our basketball school is great, always defend that with medals from yuth categories wich is product of talent and height domination more than good work. insted of consitantly impruving, ivolving good methods from other schools our leaders don't alow that. i posted same theory before this year u-19 wc about our game plan system from 99% coaches. 1-2 stars that can do what ever they wannt, 3-4 helpers and rest are bench warmers. buch of good prospects like very athletic olivari or marcinkovic were destroyed because all they did in zadar was watching prostran do what ever he wannts

    i think there was article about our 89. generation on ACB portal few years ago as wasted talent. metnionig how bad influace darko kuce has on our players...guess what, kunce is now istructor and director of all yuth categories in croatia

    and it's not that we don't have coaches. slavko trninic and miso starcevic are great yuth coaches, but they don't have place in our basketball or their methods because they are products of serbian aca nikolic basketball school

    unfortunally nothing can't change

    our federation has 21 regions, and their representitives are voating machines. all of them have some places in our basketball federations, geting good money for that. in return they vote for radic and his decsion. so despite evrey croat would point radic and co. as first to blame for situation he always gets 100% of votes.

    one itresting story. we have so called "expert advice", with some names like spahija, pavlicevic, anzulavoc...and they are in charge for electing coaches of nt's....whille radic defended him self he choose vrankovic because he knew anzulovic wouln't do anything, but wasn't sure about vrakovic. also stated he tought perasovic is not itrested in taking over nt when asked about him (actually he is, but is not member of any klan)....wich prety much says "expet advice" only votes for what he says

    so we can only hope saric, hezonja and other will somehowe develope properly. that's only hope and is very small hope based on previus expiriance
    Very interesting stuff. It's sad to see Trninic out of the current Croatian system (in the book Trninic is mentioned various times as one of the top, if not the best, talent developer in Yugoslavia, which virtually means in the whole Europe). Perasovic style is more "Serbian" than "Croatian", so it makes sense that he's not liked by the Federation.

    Juanan, the book's author, has eventually made the comparision of the couple Saric-Hezonja with Zemljic-Sesar, warning that it might happen the same to them. I don't like many things that are being done, like Hezonja doing whatever he wants in the U16 team or Saric playing entire games at the U19 WC just to learn afterwards that he has some back injury.

    Actually it's kind of funny that, after the globalization, the Croatian is the most recognizable youth school nowadays: you know their youth teams will play only 6-7 guys, the stars won't leave the court unless they are fouled out and they have almost complete freedom on court. It doesn't matter whether it's Cibona, Zadar or Zagreb. Everytime I see any of them it's the same.
    Last edited by Genjuro; 09-17-2011 at 05:29 PM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpekaustas View Post
    don't write nonsense. in ex yu teams the majority of players always came from croatia. in every single tournament more than 50% players were croats. now serbia is better, but that doesn't mean yugo basket means serbia
    his focus was only on recent results of Serbia (FR Yugoslavia/Serbia and Montenegro), so he is right in some way, but again Croatia have same potential as Serbia, just dont know what was problem to achieve some big results.
    This is the age we are currently living in, where war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery is freedom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Genjuro View Post
    Very interesting stuff. It's sad to see Trninic out of the current Croatian system (in the book Trninic is mentioned various times as one of the top, if not the best, talent developer in Yugoslavia, which virtually means in the whole Europe). Perasovic style is more "Serbian" than "Croatian", so it makes sense that he's not liked by the Federation.

    Juanan, the book's author, has eventually made the comparision of the couple Saric-Hezonja with Zemljic-Sesar, warning that it might happen the same to them. I don't like many things that are being done, like Hezonja doing whatever he wants in the U16 team or Saric playing entire games at the U19 WC just to learn afterwards that he has some back injury.

    Actually it's kind of funny that, after the globalization, the Croatian is the most recognizable youth school nowadays: you know their youth teams will play only 6-7 guys, the stars won't leave the court unless they are fouled out and they have almost complete freedom on court. It doesn't matter whether it's Cibona, Zadar or Zagreb. Everytime I see any of them it's the same.
    here is another part of my theory

    as 2nd thing you can recognize croats is? choking and not playing to win


    well maybe it's some part of mentality, but not 100% lot of it it's created. i'm sure because i see our kids lot of times performing when it matters.

    most of it it's more created, then "born with"

    for sample ukic, tomas and tomic had same treatment in zagreb and split in senior basketball, or bogdanovic this year. they were marked as projects to sell. it wasn't matter do they win, lose, playe bad. only it was important to pump their stats. whille also getting some help from refs. so not that you get only uderdeveloped players who can't fit in normal system for 3-4 years, you also created double loosers. they get used to loosing. nobady can tell me it's their mentality because they had no problems winnig gold when were kids. it's their teached mentality. as for double loosers, other group of players, "helpers", are teached just to step beside when it mathers. if you watched how 94. u-16 almost collapsed in semis when saric fouled out. nobady can't tell me that mavra, brzoja, bundovic and others are that bad they couldn't close +15 2 min. before end. it's just they didn't know how to behive without saric.

    very quick way to create underachivers, chokers and losers
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veliki_AS View Post
    Marko Vranjkovic (born in 1990, from Maribor, now playing for Helios Domzale) is prototype of next modern forward in Slovenia. Much more than Muric brothers because of his versatility (also his former club Primorac Branik was junior champion in Slovenia against Muric's Parklji Ljubljana) . He has been on injury list almost complete last year, hidden from the eyes of public and his health will be main factor in future.
    In youth categories played under the rim until his 15 year, then famous Mario Primorac started to transform him into forward. Some see him as a legitimate next Nachbar, not Smodis
    The only huge problem is that his next coach is Zmago Sagadin, who is not optimal coach for developing such a players at all. Remember, Bostjan Nachbar in 1998 left Olimpija Ljubljana (coached by Sagadin) in the middle of season, then he returned to Maribor and later next year he ended on loan from Benneton in Pivovarna Lasko (coached by Ales Pipan)
    He demands loads of work and reportedly he managed to "convience" majority Helios's youngsters to stay after 6 hours of practice and work on their own afterwards. At least from that perspective Sagadin isn't exactly the worse for youngsters.
    ...I am anxious to see how the season will go. Sagadin can be a nutcase... but compared to Rade Mijanović and U20, I believe these kids (including Vranjkovič) will be more than happy with Zmago

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohani komarac View Post
    here is another part of my theory

    as 2nd thing you can recognize croats is? choking and not playing to win


    well maybe it's some part of mentality, but not 100% lot of it it's created. i'm sure because i see our kids lot of times performing when it matters.

    most of it it's more created, then "born with"

    for sample ukic, tomas and tomic had same treatment in zagreb and split in senior basketball, or bogdanovic this year. they were marked as projects to sell. it wasn't matter do they win, lose, playe bad. only it was important to pump their stats. whille also getting some help from refs. so not that you get only uderdeveloped players who can't fit in normal system for 3-4 years, you also created double loosers. they get used to loosing. nobady can tell me it's their mentality because they had no problems winnig gold when were kids. it's their teached mentality. as for double loosers, other group of players, "helpers", are teached just to step beside when it mathers. if you watched how 94. u-16 almost collapsed in semis when saric fouled out. nobady can't tell me that mavra, brzoja, bundovic and others are that bad they couldn't close +15 2 min. before end. it's just they didn't know how to behive without saric.

    very quick way to create underachivers, chokers and losers
    partially i agree with you. croatian "system" develops one dimenzional players with bad habits. developing players with defect.

    but I do not agree that our players do not care about winning. they want to win. tomics problem is not that but 12 yo old girls body. ukic problem is that he never develops playmaking skills

    and I will never agree that ukic and tomas are losers and underachivers. actually croatia never had team that had imperativ to win medal. so 6. place is not underachiving. and if you think that 6. place is underachiving then i recommend you to watch this tournament again ukic is only player that has will to play game vs russia for world championship in 2009. from this point ukic results are overachiving.

    cratia do not have medal team, or we do not have team with imperativ of win medal. but with great coach and full roster ( ukic, tomas, planinic, rozic, radosevic, loncar, maybe banic ) croatia could fight for medal. but we need to have big coach. coach who wants to winn and knows how to do that. i think napoleon once said: "better to have army of mouses with lion general, then army of lions with mouse general". so even if u are right, with good general ( coach ) we can change players mentality

  10. #90
    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMUT_FB_LAL View Post
    The World Championship is a better tournament because it has more teams and muccchhh more cumulative quality, but the Olympics are the most prestigious one, because the Americans say so
    That's absurd. There are plenty of people worldwide who recognize the Olympic tournament as the more prestigious of the two, primarily because it's the older, more established tournament, gets more participation from "A-list" players, and most importantly, it condenses the best national teams from every region into a solid 12 team field. (Unlike the WC, where you get a hugh drop-off in talent from the middle-bottom tier teams which waters down competitiveness.)

  11. #91
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    Great article in NIN magazine about Danilović and a personal overview on his career. He said one very interesting thing, a great example why we had such great players and why ex-Yu will struggle to make such a great player again.
    "Cak i moji roditelji su osetili da je taj covek pravi i da se na njega mogu osloniti kad sam ja, tada sedamnaestogodisnjak, u pitanju. Duletov, skoro slucajan, dolazak u moju kucu u Sarajevu bio je prekretnica u karijeri i prelasku u 'Partizan'. Pre toga upozorio me je da postoje teskoce sto se tog transfera tice, jer bez ispisnice kluba iz kojeg dolazim ne mogu zvanicno igrati u novom klubu godinu dana. To nije promenilo moju odluku. Presao sam u 'Partizan' za par patika, smestaj i hranu ne postavljajuci nikakve uslove. Moji nisu bili za to. Mama se bunila, a caleta sam brzo pridobio."

    Tada je naucio da trenira po sedam-osam sati, da ustaje rano, da prihvata savete samo od onih koji su se kao dobronamerni vec dokazali. "Dule je u tom trenutku za mene bio i otac i trener, covek koji me je formirao u igrackom i ljudskom smislu. Od njega sam naucio da posvecujem puno paznje individualnom radu. Shvatio sam da u sportu, kao i u bilo kojoj profesiji, talenat nije nista bez rada. Ponekad cak ni to nije dovoljno jer, jednostavno, mozete da nemate srece."
    "Even my parents felt that this man is genuine and that I, as seventeen-year-old, can rely on him. Dule's almost accidental arrival to my home in Sarajevo was a turning-point for my career and for my move to Partizan. Before it happened, he warned me that there are difficulties with the transfer, because without the release papers from my old club I could miss next season without playing officially for the new club. It didn't affect my decision. I moved to Partizan for a pair of sneakers, accommodation and food, without asking any question. My parents opposed the idea. Mom protested, but I convinced my father quickly."

    Then he learned to train for seven or eight hours, to get up early, to accept advice from those who have already proven as bona fide. "Dule was both father and coach for me at that time, the man who helped me form as a person and as a player. I learned from him to devote myself to individual practice. I realized that in sports, as in any other profession, talent means nothing without practice. Sometimes even that is not enough, simply because you can run out of luck."
    Dule is Duško Vujošević, of course.

  12. #92
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    yes Cibosu, that's true... basketball now is so poor that I watch only old Yugoslav games. in my opinion, only Teodosic could play old league.
    as I'm also from Croatia, I can say that 1995 episode of leaving the podium put curse in our basketball and basketball gods remember it, not allowing us to win anymore...

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    perhaps true for euskadi. but...
    only serbian coaches from ex-yugoslavia are lions...

  14. #94
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    i think that basketball and all cheap talks about it is complete nonsense after fall of Yugoslavia. during the Yugoslav period, everyone (except USA and USSR) was miles beyond. today we have situation that Spain is powerhouse.
    Navarro??? - he is fine player, but could play in Rabotnički or Borac Čačak in ex-Yu league. he would be nice as floor cleaner for Kićanović or Delibašić...
    to Pimpekaustas - yes, many Croatian players played for an ex-Yu team, but Serbia produced more stars over the years...

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by souly View Post
    i think that basketball and all cheap talks about it is complete nonsense after fall of Yugoslavia. during the Yugoslav period, everyone (except USA and USSR) was miles beyond. today we have situation that Spain is powerhouse.
    Navarro??? - he is fine player, but could play in Rabotnički or Borac Čačak in ex-Yu league. he would be nice as floor cleaner for Kićanović or Delibašić...
    to Pimpekaustas - yes, many Croatian players played for an ex-Yu team, but Serbia produced more stars over the years...
    you lost your mind
    Jordi Bertomeu sucks!

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