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Thread: if usa invite all the talent into nt , can they win wc ?

  1. #21
    Senior Member HIGHLANDER's Avatar
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    Default Everybody's missing 1 fundemental point

    Quote 'if U.S.A invite all talent ect..'
    It's not about inviting, they don't want to play.
    An old saying from my country in sports is "U PLAY FOR THE JERSEY" or the strip, for all u international crowd who might not know what jersey is.
    Those guys who don't want to play for the U.S think they are above the international competition and that is shameful and disrespecting to all international athletes in any sport.
    So as far as i am concerned u can only play who is in front of u and hard fact state that the U.S have not won any competitions for a while.
    So forget if's and but's and look at hard facts...

  2. #22
    Senior Member Waneko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER
    Quote 'if U.S.A invite all talent ect..'
    It's not about inviting, they don't want to play.
    An old saying from my country in sports is "U PLAY FOR THE JERSEY" or the strip, for all u international crowd who might not know what jersey is.
    Those guys who don't want to play for the U.S think they are above the international competition and that is shameful and disrespecting to all international athletes in any sport.
    So as far as i am concerned u can only play who is in front of u and hard fact state that the U.S have not won any competitions for a while.
    So forget if's and but's and look at hard facts...
    Hmmm

    Maybe they don't consider themselves American in the patriotic sense. If that were the case, is or is not the U.S. fielding their best team?

  3. #23
    Senior Member ros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waneko
    Hmmm

    Maybe they don't consider themselves American in the patriotic sense. If that were the case, is or is not the U.S. fielding their best team?
    The answer to this "why the US team didn't field their best players?" is very simple, FAME and MONEY... By saying best team you mean to say the "star" players? Fielding an all-star team doesn't necessarily mean a championship.
    Good players or effective players are those who need not take hold of the ball and show his dribbling wizardry before taking a shot.

    Carmelo, Dwayne, Lebron they're just a bunch of Jordan wannabes... They thought that athleticism can give them the gold. Think again..

  4. #24
    Senior Member Phantim3dx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ros
    The answer to this "why the US team didn't field their best players?" is very simple, FAME and MONEY... By saying best team you mean to say the "star" players? Fielding an all-star team doesn't necessarily mean a championship.
    Good players or effective players are those who need not take hold of the ball and show his dribbling wizardry before taking a shot.

    Carmelo, Dwayne, Lebron they're just a bunch of Jordan wannabes... They thought that athleticism can give them the gold. Think again..

    yeah i agree there all jordan wanna be's cuz there are only 2 mj's, michael jordan and magic johnson.

    but dribbling wont do it either. in fact dribbling is the last thing they need, they needed better passing and should have done less iso when they were on there end set up for the offensive play. not to mention they needed to hit those free throws better.

  5. #25
    Senior Member HIGHLANDER's Avatar
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    Default Jordans comments on Eurosport

    Jordans comments on the Eurosport website hits the nail on the head

  6. #26
    Senior Member Phantim3dx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER
    Jordans comments on the Eurosport website hits the nail on the head
    Got the link and posted a new thread about it, so discuss away
    Last edited by Phantim3dx; 10-19-2006 at 09:19 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member mavs128's Avatar
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    I think it's less a matter of chemistry and much more about our PGs. The US can put out an amazing roster of talent, but if they don't have TOP-NOTCH distributors on the team, it doesn't matter. There's no way the US team should EVER be giving the ball to Carmelo on the perimeter, having him go one-on-one against his defender and pull up for a long jump shot. They should be able to get much better shots than that.

    Guys like Deron Williams and Chris Paul are the future at PG for the Americans.

  8. #28
    Senior Member CG's Avatar
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    my reply to the topic

    NO
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  9. #29
    Senior Member HIGHLANDER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavs128
    I think it's less a matter of chemistry and much more about our PGs. The US can put out an amazing roster of talent, but if they don't have TOP-NOTCH distributors on the team, it doesn't matter. There's no way the US team should EVER be giving the ball to Carmelo on the perimeter, having him go one-on-one against his defender and pull up for a long jump shot. They should be able to get much better shots than that.

    Guys like Deron Williams and Chris Paul are the future at PG for the Americans.

    Is what you are talking about here not what chemistry is?

  10. #30
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    1. it's not the talent
    talent is undisputable.
    Discussions "if bringing" that star and that star are useless since it's turning attention away from the real problem of american basketball.

    2. it's not the chemistry

    3. it's Stern turning NBA into Jersey selling company, with "star" system that is right now by far surpassed by other countries with actual teamplay.
    Changing mentality of game for one single tournament obviously won't work. NBA changing in the short term won't happen either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

  11. #31
    Senior Member alermac's Avatar
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    I think it's not about chemistry or talent. It's about playing styles, and for some reason NBA-succesful style and FIBA-succesful style are completely different (I guess the cause lies in some rules; like the NBA having a further 3P line, the illegal defense rule, the rebounding interference rule and NBA's "softer" refereeing). So, this is would I do if I were Colangelo:

    -Hire an American coach with long and recent or current FIBA experience, like Sam Vincent (Nigeria) or Paul Coughter (Lebanon). Not D'Antoni because his style has become too NBA-like.

    -Call several players with long and recent or current FIBA experience, priorizing those who don't absorb too much shooting on their teams and those who play for elite teams. My perfect example would be Anthony Parker, but there are many others. And have no doubt these guys would understand a lot better what it means to play for your NT.

    -Then add some NBA talent, priorizing those who could fit that FIBA style and team-oriented players. Battier was a good choice, and Brad Miller should have played much more.

    -And, at last, add one or two great scorers/shooters like Carmelo Anthony.

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    They need Bruce Bowen, a lockdown defender. They need more defense. After watching US get smoked by Greece, it reminded me my in-house team. We couldnt play D, couldnt shoot and we lost 97-51. We cant rely on shooting or outplaying offense because the world is getting better on how to stop us and how to break us down defensively.
    My Blog: http://wwoib.blogspot.com/


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    1992 African Basketball Championship -in Cairo, EGY
    1992 Euro Olympic Basketball Tournament -in Spain

  13. #33
    Senior Member Nikoo's Avatar
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    Why USA is losing
    -they carry to mani responsibility-winning, winning in class, entertaining(I mean every hall where USA is playing in PACKED-even against Senegal, Surinam or Albania)
    -They lost respect from RotW-heck when some 19 year old kid(Bellineli) is dunks and talks trash on USA team something is wrong.

    What to do:
    -Larry Bird-coach(international ref makes ticky-tacky call against USA, Bird shouts:hey ---- I'm Larry Bird and this isnt a friggn'foul. Next time-no call )
    -get some intimidators to put 19 year olds and euroleague 'stars' in place(elbows, hard fouls, undercuts on dunks and layups, etc)
    -Superstars must be hardned vets-Kobe, KG, TD, Shaq
    -more Detroit Pistons players
    -stop chucking 40 3 balls per game but get real shooters to break down zones in secs(Matt Carroll, Kaponovich, Ray Allen)

    Or select D-League All star team and let those guys to train whole year together and play them
    Last edited by Juan Carlos Nadal; 02-19-2007 at 01:18 PM.
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  14. #34
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    I agree on D-League part. If NBA players dont want to represent, get players who really want to and show the true meaning of playing FOR YOUR COUNTRY, NOT YOUR OWN SELFISH SELF.
    My Blog: http://wwoib.blogspot.com/


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    1991 South American Championships -in Valencia, VEN
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    1992 African Basketball Championship -in Cairo, EGY
    1992 Euro Olympic Basketball Tournament -in Spain

  15. #35
    Senior Member Czarkazem13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usausa
    I agree on D-League part. If NBA players dont want to represent, get players who really want to and show the true meaning of playing FOR YOUR COUNTRY, NOT YOUR OWN SELFISH SELF.
    What do you mean? There are plenty of NBA players that want to rep the U.S.A. jersey and for the country. A hand few of stars doesn't make the whole leage.

  16. #36
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    I don't think D-league teams or even all star would have any chance to be competitie against the top teams. the level is definately lower than the euroleague and you can't beat serious teams with that.

    the trouble is, US forgot how to play basketball to the extent their enormous talent advantage actually doesn't help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

  17. #37
    Senior Member Czarkazem13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matiz
    I don't think D-league teams or even all star would have any chance to be competitie against the top teams. the level is definately lower than the euroleague and you can't beat serious teams with that.
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matiz
    the trouble is, US forgot how to play basketball to the extent their enormous talent advantage actually doesn't help.
    Bad coaching and developing of players.

  18. #38
    Senior Member robbe's Avatar
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    The US have had almost every NBA superstar play in international competition in the last years. Besides Shaq and Kobe. Players like LeBron, Wade, Anthony, Howard, Bosh etc. dominate for their respective teams in the NBA.

    I don't think bringing Kobe or Shaq in would change anything. I'd always say the leading NBA players are the best in the world making bad shots, but they're not capable enough creating good looks. I mean, if you can make a 24ft fadeaway with 3 hands in your face four out of ten times, like Kobe does, thats impressive. But it isn't as effective as finding the cutter for an open layup eight out of ten times.
    The US' bad pick and roll defence was decisive in the semis, and it's no coincidence. I see only one player in the NBA running the pick and roll as good as Euroleague playmakers like Prigioni do, thats Steve Nash. And no one in the league is able to defend that high Nash-Stoudamire/Diaw screen and roll. That is usually even more dangerous in international play, because of the ability to knock down the three. That's another difference to NBA play.

    I don't think there is a short term solution. Perhaps, yes, some European coaches in the NBA could show how international ball is played. And I don't want to sound cynically. International basketball has been learning from the US for decades. Perhaps it's time now to give some knowledge back.

    That doesn't mean the US can't win in Beijing. They're in the mix, and they have always been. 6th in 2002, 3rd in 2004, 3rd in 2006 - if you try to see it objectively, these are good results. Only 3,4 teams are that stable. It's just that a gold medal is all that counts in the US.
    Last edited by robbe; 02-20-2007 at 01:32 PM.

  19. #39

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    Some thoughts.
    USA wasn't prepared this summer to win the WC, because Coach K didn't know the names of the players of the other teams. And the system was completely wrong.
    1. USA played small-ball, with Howard as a C, Anthony as a PF, many times 3 guards on the floor. We've seen in the Europe Live, that placing a big man in the paint is lethal for the European teams (Dalembert has destroyed CSKA). I think that Kaman and Ben Wallace must be in the NT.
    2. They can't defend pick&roll. And they can't make adjustments in the tournament. They risked to lose against Italy, and they made the same errors against Greece. Greece is better than Italy, so they lost.
    3. Bring shooters. In NBA there are some spectacular shooters off the screens. I think that Kapono can make 10 3-pt goals in a game if he exits from a Wallace screen, and he shoots.
    4. Watch the ASGs. Some players (LBJ, Arenas, Anthony) are born for these games. You can't bring them in the FIBA competitions. You must make the team with Billups, Hamilton, Big Ben, Bowen, Stoudemire...players who want to win every game, and they don't want to play just for fun.
    5. A coaching staff with Euro experience. D'Antoni, Blatt, why not an European coach that worked in USA (Ataman, Bauermann...)?

  20. #40
    Senior Member Phantim3dx's Avatar
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    a wise statement robbe.

    yeah i can see how stable the results are from your point of view i guess its in the american bloodline that we want to win and be very competitive. as we have a saying here "go big or go home" and i guess this is why we are so concerned about gold in a sport we dominated for a long time, for us to fall down a few notches, i guess it makes us bloody a bit but more so to be back on top.

    "Perhaps it's time now to give some knowledge back."
    yes definitely its a give and take relationship as I see it, and the fundamentals of basketball the US does need to re learn and realize what theyve lost a loooong time ago. we do need to adapt to intl basketball. see u guys in beijing.

    im in beijing by the way. this place is rockin!

    Quote Originally Posted by robbe
    The US have had almost every NBA superstar play in international competition in the last years. Besides Shaq and Kobe. Players like LeBron, Wade, Anthony, Howard, Bosh etc. dominate for their respective teams in the NBA.

    I don't think bringing Kobe or Shaq in would change anything. I'd always say the leading NBA players are the best in the world making bad shots, but they're not capable enough creating good looks. I mean, if you can make a 24ft fadeaway with 3 hands in your face four out of ten times, like Kobe does, thats impressive. But it isn't as effective as finding the cutter for an open layup eight out of ten times.
    The US' bad pick and roll defence was decisive in the semis, and it's no coincidence. I see only one player in the NBA running the pick and roll as good as Euroleague playmakers like Prigioni do, thats Steve Nash. And no one in the league is able to defend that high Nash-Stoudamire/Diaw screen and roll. That is usually even more dangerous in international play, because of the ability to knock down the three. That's another difference to NBA play.

    I don't think there is a short term solution. Perhaps, yes, some European coaches in the NBA could show how international ball is played. And I don't want to sound cynically. International basketball has been learning from the US for decades. Perhaps it's time now to give some knowledge back.

    That doesn't mean the US can't win in Beijing. They're in the mix, and they have always been. 6th in 2002, 3rd in 2004, 3rd in 2006 - if you try to see it objectively, these are good results. Only 3,4 teams are that stable. It's just that a gold medal is all that counts in the US.

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