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Thread: if usa invite all the talent into nt , can they win wc ?

  1. #41
    Senior Member alermac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SK rulez
    5. A coaching staff with Euro experience. D'Antoni, Blatt, why not an European coach that worked in USA (Ataman, Bauermann...)?
    Or maybe hiring an Euro coach for the NT, and letting him pick the players and train them, would be enough.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadMann
    i have watched some match dream team i played in barcelona , i found in 1992 eurteam also throw a lot of 3 point , and play zone defence , deferent betweet now and 1992 is that they throw 3 point much accurate . the style between dti and dt7 is very similar , only different is the individial ability between dt1 and dt7 , so i doult if usa have all the talent like cobe and others , can they win the wc ?
    First of all, there's no more dream team now.

    They don't deserve to be called one. I would agree that it's more a case of the rest of the world improving than us deproving though.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member robbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytoo
    They don't deserve to be called one. I would agree that it's more a case of the rest of the world improving than us deproving though.
    I agree. I watched some '92 games recently. Even in '92, the US had tough stretches where they were forced into a slow paced half court game. And they sometimes didn't look good there. But the opposition couldn't keep them at bay for 40 minutes (which Greece was able to do in 2006), as the US was superior in terms of athletic ability. They would only need two five-minutes-stretches, in which Magic, MJ, Sir Charles, Pippen would run the fastbreak and put 20 points between themselves and the opposition.

    Now that doesn't mean it is only the opposition that has changed. The '92-team had such smart, experienced players like Magic and Bird as team leaders. Can't compare that to '06.

  4. #44
    Senior Member bobo81's Avatar
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    I gotta question: Are Amare, Marion and Arenas still able to be on the team, even though they didnt play in the WBC06?
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  5. #45
    Banned turkishpower's Avatar
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    Of course USA can win the WC anytime. They always have the best chances to win the tournaments. Anybody saying NO is a moron.

  6. #46
    Senior Member wardjdim's Avatar
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    The U.S. can bring whoever they desire.

    The results are always to be noted on court. Once they appear ready and well-organized to win and given their talent superiority (I never doubted that they are the best team, talent-wise), they will win a world tournament again.

    But, the question that refers to the organization momentum is yet to be answered, so let's wait for a while (once again..).
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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    Some thoughts.
    USA wasn't prepared this summer to win the WC, because Coach K didn't know the names of the players of the other teams. And the system was completely wrong.
    1. USA played small-ball, with Howard as a C, Anthony as a PF, many times 3 guards on the floor. We've seen in the Europe Live, that placing a big man in the paint is lethal for the European teams (Dalembert has destroyed CSKA). I think that Kaman and Ben Wallace must be in the NT.
    2. They can't defend pick&roll. And they can't make adjustments in the tournament. They risked to lose against Italy, and they made the same errors against Greece. Greece is better than Italy, so they lost.
    3. Bring shooters. In NBA there are some spectacular shooters off the screens. I think that Kapono can make 10 3-pt goals in a game if he exits from a Wallace screen, and he shoots.
    4. Watch the ASGs. Some players (LBJ, Arenas, Anthony) are born for these games. You can't bring them in the FIBA competitions. You must make the team with Billups, Hamilton, Big Ben, Bowen, Stoudemire...players who want to win every game, and they don't want to play just for fun.
    5. A coaching staff with Euro experience. D'Antoni, Blatt, why not an European coach that worked in USA (Ataman, Bauermann...)?


    Very thoughtful, and probably the best assessment on the struggles of USA Basketball that I've read on this forum. There's no question that the administrators/managers at USA basketball still haven't found the right formula for building a successful team. I totally agree with you on most of what you wrote, especially on the lack of outside shooters and the poor defensive adjustments. If the US doesn't address these problems then the same struggles are going to occur tournament after tournament. The second wave of players that will be competing in this summer's Tournament of the Americas will definitely make the team better defensively and offensively. Check out the list on usabasketball.com.

  8. #48
    Senior Member HIGHLANDER's Avatar
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    What u say Federoy is right i think..they have not found the right formula.
    They need guys who will play the roll for the team.
    Perhaps a dominant big man, a couple of pure shooters, a couple of P.G's who can control the game and feed the ball to the right people, perhaps 1 or 2 go to guys (slashers), and some guys who can play defense to guard the best players of other teams.
    Having said that i don't think there is any coaches available from the states who know how to play international basketball. This will be the main downfall for me, because you can have the most talented line up in the world or the best teams of players who do a specific job for the team but if the coach don't know shit then you are screwed. I believe before, say 10 to 15 years ago the USA go send out any team and say, just go and ball, and they would win, but now the other countries have talent too as well as there own brand of basketball..

  9. #49
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    You asked if USA invites its talents. It depends if the talents will join. You just said invite you did not say join. hehehe JOKE
    Quote Originally Posted by BadMann
    i have watched some match dream team i played in barcelona , i found in 1992 eurteam also throw a lot of 3 point , and play zone defence , deferent betweet now and 1992 is that they throw 3 point much accurate . the style between dti and dt7 is very similar , only different is the individial ability between dt1 and dt7 , so i doult if usa have all the talent like cobe and others , can they win the wc ?

  10. #50
    Senior Member kukoc7's Avatar
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    USA current trouble with the international game can't be just because of the coaching. From what I've seen, today's players don't have the basketball IQ and the mental toughness of a Bird, Magic and Jordan (and every other player from that era). They can't adjust to the opponents without getting specific intructions from their coaches. Just watch how other teams go to the same play over and over again and look at the puzzled looks in the faces of the USA five on the floor. Sure, they are the best athletes out there. They can jump out of the building and dunk with such power, but it's their "smarts" that are clearly lacking.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kukoc7
    USA current trouble with the international game can't be just because of the coaching. From what I've seen, today's players don't have the basketball IQ and the mental toughness of a Bird, Magic and Jordan (and every other player from that era). They can't adjust to the opponents without getting specific intructions from their coaches. Just watch how other teams go to the same play over and over again and look at the puzzled looks in the faces of the USA five on the floor. Sure, they are the best athletes out there. They can jump out of the building and dunk with such power, but it's their "smarts" that are clearly lacking.
    true...
    if you want to succed in US, you have to (usually) score 35+ ppg in HS, to be noticed and later head to a good college, where you almost have to drop 20+ every night just to be considered as an NBA prospect (let alone more than that)... and imho that system alone is not really stimulative for actually learning more about the game. in majority of cases scoring is enough, while reading the defense, teamwork and all those small stuff get much less apreciation than they should... don't want to overgeneralise this though, but I get the feeling most US players lack that.
    Most euro bball school are much more stimulative for kids actually learning the game, they are expected to know all sorts of possibilities of different set plays at a very young age, while in ex-Yu playing by the book practically means everything in some cases too much improvisation can bench you for the whole season (I've tasted that )... you don't play by the book, you don't play at all, and i think that's the right mentality since bball is a team sport.
    and imho you really need those detailed analyse of the game very early for later to be able to adjust it automatically within second when needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

  12. #52
    Senior Member Czarkazem13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kukoc7
    USA current trouble with the international game can't be just because of the coaching. From what I've seen, today's players don't have the basketball IQ and the mental toughness of a Bird, Magic and Jordan (and every other player from that era). They can't adjust to the opponents without getting specific intructions from their coaches. Just watch how other teams go to the same play over and over again and look at the puzzled looks in the faces of the USA five on the floor. Sure, they are the best athletes out there. They can jump out of the building and dunk with such power, but it's their "smarts" that are clearly lacking.
    And low player IQ is due to bad coaching on every level. Players learning from sub-par HS coaches that want to save their jobs, AAU coaches that don't teach them how to play as a team instead use it to judge players individual stock. NBA coaches who rely to much on the athleticism of the players and play too much isolation plays. In the end, it all starts with coaching. Players need to be molded.

  13. #53
    Senior Member kukoc7's Avatar
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    Yes, you're right about it being a problem of coaching in "every" level. (Though, most successful college programs still advocate team ball.) But since we're talking of inviting players from the "highest" level, I'm addressing the problem there. Really, the problem is not the coaching at the highest level.

    Basically, the USA have a pool of coaches composed of the same coaches from the time that they were still dominant internationally. It's the pool of players that has changed. And these players lack the basketball IQ and court sense (that you can't really teach) that the previous players had. They rely too much on their athletecism.

  14. #54

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    i wish there will be a best of seven series for FIBA WC Finals between USA and any team. I think USA can get it without a doubt

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    Senior Member HIGHLANDER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonyito
    i wish there will be a best of seven series for FIBA WC Finals between USA and any team. I think USA can get it without a doubt
    Perhaps they would but this is International basketball not the NBA..

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER
    Perhaps they would but this is International basketball not the NBA..
    yeah but dont forget it will be a seven game series. there's a room for adjustment to whatever type of plays they may encounter.

    you lose game one, there will be game two and three for adjustment. besides, a seven game series is an endurance test and every NBA player have to play 82 games a yeaR

  17. #57
    Senior Member kukoc7's Avatar
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    With the kind of basketball IQ their players have these days, I don't think it would matter at all. The coaches can make the adjustments for the players before game time, but once the "internationals" make in-game changes the NBA stars would be all puzzled again.

    Another thing, NBA stars always call Europeans (and other foreign players ) in the NBA "soft". Yet when they play international ball they always complain that it's too physical.

    If it's endurance that they want to test they should just join a marathon or the iron man competitions.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kukoc7
    Yes, you're right about it being a problem of coaching in "every" level. (Though, most successful college programs still advocate team ball.) But since we're talking of inviting players from the "highest" level, I'm addressing the problem there. Really, the problem is not the coaching at the highest level.

    Basically, the USA have a pool of coaches composed of the same coaches from the time that they were still dominant internationally. It's the pool of players that has changed. And these players lack the basketball IQ and court sense (that you can't really teach) that the previous players had. They rely too much on their athletecism.
    You're putting the cart before the horse in your argument. Increased player IQ is the direct result of coaching and proper instruction. If players are not taught at an early age to think pass during a fastbreak, block out an opponent for a rebound, or run to the baseline for a lay-up, then you can't blame the players for lack of court awareness. By the time a player reaches his late-teens the bad habits have already set in, that's why its critically important that kids learn the proper techniques of basketball at an early age.
    Last edited by Federoy; 06-11-2007 at 05:33 PM.

  19. #59
    Senior Member kukoc7's Avatar
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    I don't think so. Like I said, successful college programs don't rely on individual talent but rather on teamwork, good court awareness and fundamentals. After college though, the players from these programs that have good basketball IQs and would have excelled in international ball are left behind, those who have the flare for the NBA style are the ones that are nortured and reared.

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