Originally posted by Trener
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Mark Cuban on WC-"the NBA is making a huge mistake"
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Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis
Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw
Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8
When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0
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Straight up, the best european players don't even play in the nba. A bunch sort of leak over every few years or so but 80% don't even play in the nba.
zisis
kakouzis
papaloukis
scola
kambala
diamantidis(this greek dude would shut kobe down, hell half of italy would shut kobe down, it's their roman attitude. they're dominant people that come from a great and powerful civilization. kobe only wishes he was italian)
navarro
galanda(torched team usa a few years ago. old now)
k. lavriinovic(torched team usa for 20+)
fernanadez
chatzivretas
reyes
jimenez
soragna(this guy would freakin own kobe as well)
marconato(owned duncan a few years ago)
sabonis came to the nba when he was aging and had ruined knees.
i could go on and list 50 more players from my stat sheet that have effing housed u.s. players
the u.s. is overrated. if all of the european teams put there best players together on one team, the u.s. would be losing by 30 ppg.
dirk was an experiment. he hadn't proved anything in europe before he came to the nba. there are many average euro players that could come to the nba now and take it over like dirk. it just depends on the team they land on and the situation.
euros come to nba for one thing these days and that is money. when that drys up, say goodbye to excitement and skill in u.s. bball.
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Originally posted by peckerStraight up, the best european players don't even play in the nba. A bunch sort of leak over every few years or so but 80% don't even play in the nba.
zisis
kakouzis
papaloukis
scola
kambala
diamantidis(this greek dude would shut kobe down, hell half of italy would shut kobe down, it's their roman attitude. they're dominant people that come from a great and powerful civilization. kobe only wishes he was italian)
navarro
galanda(torched team usa a few years ago. old now)
k. lavriinovic(torched team usa for 20+)
fernanadez
chatzivretas
reyes
jimenez
soragna(this guy would freakin own kobe as well)
marconato(owned duncan a few years ago)
sabonis came to the nba when he was aging and had ruined knees.
i could go on and list 50 more players from my stat sheet that have effing housed u.s. players
the u.s. is overrated. if all of the european teams put there best players together on one team, the u.s. would be losing by 30 ppg.
dirk was an experiment. he hadn't proved anything in europe before he came to the nba. there are many average euro players that could come to the nba now and take it over like dirk. it just depends on the team they land on and the situation.
euros come to nba for one thing these days and that is money. when that drys up, say goodbye to excitement and skill in u.s. bball.
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Originally posted by peckerzisis
kakouzis
papaloukis
scola
kambala
diamantidis(this greek dude would shut kobe down, hell half of italy would shut kobe down, it's their roman attitude. they're dominant people that come from a great and powerful civilization. kobe only wishes he was italian)
navarro
galanda(torched team usa a few years ago. old now)
k. lavriinovic(torched team usa for 20+)
fernanadez
chatzivretas
reyes
jimenez
soragna(this guy would freakin own kobe as well)
marconato(owned duncan a few years ago)
I think anyone can come up with a list that counters this one not only in talent and ability, but in sheer numbers of Euro players that have attempted the NBA. I am almost certain I could match your list solely with players from the former-Yugoslavia -- Divac, Rakocevic, Milicic, Stojakovic, Krstic, Ilic, Drobjnak, Radmanovic, Planinic, Carbarkapa, Danilovic, Sakovic, Jaric, Pavlovic, Rebraca and I am sure I missing another 3-5. Again, these are just former-Yugoslav players...
If I am not mistaken, Kambala tried out for a couple US teams and failed to make the grade, while Scola, Navarro, Zisis, and Fernandez are destined to try the NBA sometime. Whether they are successful is another question.
Stuart
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Originally posted by peckerzisis
kakouzis
papaloukis
scola
kambala
diamantidis(this greek dude would shut kobe down, hell half of italy would shut kobe down, it's their roman attitude. they're dominant people that come from a great and powerful civilization. kobe only wishes he was italian)
navarro
galanda(torched team usa a few years ago. old now)
k. lavriinovic(torched team usa for 20+)
fernanadez
chatzivretas
reyes
jimenez
soragna(this guy would freakin own kobe as well)
marconato(owned duncan a few years ago)
sabonis came to the nba when he was aging and had ruined knees.47-70
76-58
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Originally posted by bball1234I truly do believe that if international rules were followed in the states, that the US would fair much better int hese tournaments. ,
Another thing about this is that teh WC mean little to americans, most dont even really know that it went on unfortunantely. The olymipics are a bigger deal, but that shoudltn affect our winning.
You must believe:
a)the same players will still be the superstars under a new system, or
b) that a different group (or type) of players would end up representing the U.S. in the international tournaments. If you believe the latter, do you think the U.S. should still be the overwhelming favorite?
If you believe the former, tell us how the current U.S. players will adapt to the new system. You will have to convince us that Lebron will plant himself and hit open three pointers all day.
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Originally posted by WanekoInteresting point. Let me ask you, if the NBA adopted international rules, would Lebron James and Dwayne Wade still be the superstars they are? Or would they become just "good" or average players? You have to consider that first before you make your assumption.
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Originally posted by ZalgirinisSuperstars and etc labels are created by NBA media. What I could say that LeBron or Wade would be 70-80% of what they are if "star-treatment" wasnt so favored by NBA refs there. What would change adoption of international rules if NBA refs would still call those unexesting fouls on every move of superstar or dont call travelling?
It works too. My wife, who knows little about the game, can recognize Lebron's face on television, but doesn't know the name of the any of the teams.
Anyway, you're right, any change towards making the NBA more like the international game will have to include cracking down on the preferential treatment stars get from the refs, which has been going on for decades. I venture to say that they would lose a lot of fans that way. Not the real fans like the people who post here, but the fair weather fans who bring in a great chunk of the revenue for the league.
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Originally posted by WanekoAnyway, you're right, any change towards making the NBA more like the international game will have to include cracking down on the preferential treatment stars get from the refs, which has been going on for decades. I venture to say that they would lose a lot of fans that way. Not the real fans like the people who post here, but the fair weather fans who bring in a great chunk of the revenue for the league.
The flattening of media in the U.S. means anyone with a basic cable subscription can see two to five NBA games during the regular season without trying hard at all. If you have an extended cable or satellite connection like I do, you can catch almost any team, even on the opposite coast, and if you want to spend even just a little more money, you can see all the teams on a subscription. For the cost of one night of NBA basketball, I could subscribe and see every single game, every single team, on my television. An NBA all access pass, or whatever it's called, goes for about $160, which is the cost of a first-tier ticket at the Charlotte Bobcats. I can drive two hours to see the Bobcats, but I have only done so when I had free tickets provided to me by the television stations on which our law firm advertises. And I like the Bobcats, more or less. I prefer watching college ball, but I'm ready to get on the bandwagon if Morrison pans out.
Arena revenue comes from local businesses primarily which buy sky boxes and blocks of seats; ticket prices have to be extremely high to justify the cost of investment in the arenas the NBA wants; contracts are ridiculously large for players. Blaming all of this on individual play versus team play is short-sighted in my opinion. It's like the chicken and the egg argument. And I don't believe the refs show deferential treatment, either. It's simplistic to the extreme.Michelle Tackabery
Tackabery Chronicle
Durham, NC, USA
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Originally posted by mktackaberyAnd I don't believe the refs show deferential treatment, either. It's simplistic to the extreme.
No preferential treatment?
None whatsoever???
Really?
I believe you (Michelle) brought up a lot of valid arguments regarding the NBA and its sources of revenue and fair weather fans but the sentence quoted above renders, imo, your entire argument void and meaningless.Unicajism (or Unicajian Performance Fluctuation Syndrome: UPFS) in all its glory
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Originally posted by BillyAre you KIDDING me???
No preferential treatment?
None whatsoever???
Really?
I believe you (Michelle) brought up a lot of valid arguments regarding the NBA and its sources of revenue and fair weather fans but the sentence quoted above renders, imo, your entire argument void and meaningless.
I'm presuming (dangerous word) preferential treatment is 100% deferment to them; they couldn't possibly treat them all like emperors and always give them their way. Of course they sometimes get calls, so do coaches, and a lot of times refs just don't see them play dirty or get away with things, but they have to have some balance. and I know I've seen instances where refs pick on a player on purpose to knock him down a peg or two, which God knows, in the NBA a lot of players should have happen more often.
Hey, I'm no NBA apologist. Watch the ACC. Then you can complain that the refs always give Coach K preferential treatment.Michelle Tackabery
Tackabery Chronicle
Durham, NC, USA
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Originally posted by mktackaberyI disagree strongly with this. NBA revenue mainly comes from national advertisers - sponsorships - television contracts; and most exposure for teams comes through television. Fair weather fans watch it on tv and don't have to even go to the arenas; even if they wanted to they couldn't afford it.
The flattening of media in the U.S. means anyone with a basic cable subscription can see two to five NBA games during the regular season without trying hard at all. If you have an extended cable or satellite connection like I do, you can catch almost any team, even on the opposite coast, and if you want to spend even just a little more money, you can see all the teams on a subscription. For the cost of one night of NBA basketball, I could subscribe and see every single game, every single team, on my television. An NBA all access pass, or whatever it's called, goes for about $160, which is the cost of a first-tier ticket at the Charlotte Bobcats. I can drive two hours to see the Bobcats, but I have only done so when I had free tickets provided to me by the television stations on which our law firm advertises. And I like the Bobcats, more or less. I prefer watching college ball, but I'm ready to get on the bandwagon if Morrison pans out.
Arena revenue comes from local businesses primarily which buy sky boxes and blocks of seats; ticket prices have to be extremely high to justify the cost of investment in the arenas the NBA wants; contracts are ridiculously large for players. Blaming all of this on individual play versus team play is short-sighted in my opinion. It's like the chicken and the egg argument. And I don't believe the refs show deferential treatment, either. It's simplistic to the extreme.
As for the contracts being rediculously large, I disagree. Why shouldn't the players get what the market will bear?
As for the refs, the treatment they give stars is so obvious that broadcasters routinely point it out. And when they do, it isn't out of protest. It's quite clear that they condone it.
If you don't think the individual style of play plays a role in the U.S. not winning international tournaments, then what do you think it is?Last edited by Waneko; 09-20-2006, 01:52 PM.
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Originally posted by WanekoIf you don't think the individual style of play plays a role in the U.S. not winning international tournaments, then what do you think it is?
Of course it would be better basketball IMHO but the NBA doesn't owe anyone better basketball, they owe shareholders and owners and players, and for players to work, they have to play in the system, and without some system there is no basketball . . . in Cuban's terms there is no upside to a true international league that would include the U.S. . . . I guess that's the problem.Michelle Tackabery
Tackabery Chronicle
Durham, NC, USA
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Originally posted by mktackaberyThis may strike you as simplistic, but in my terms it's a marketing problem - share of voice - international basketball does not have the market share in the U.S., and the employers (NBA teams) are not vested in giving them any. From their point of view, why should they (Cuban's point)? They market their product aggressively, they lock their players in with big contracts, (separate issue, I'm all for paying people what they are worth, but I don't care what you do, no one is worth millions of dollars for athletics and I am not disparaging anyone's talent), long exhausting seasons - what's the return for sharing their players with international fans?
Of course it would be better basketball IMHO but the NBA doesn't owe anyone better basketball, they owe shareholders and owners and players, and for players to work, they have to play in the system, and without some system there is no basketball . . . in Cuban's terms there is no upside to a true international league that would include the U.S. . . . I guess that's the problem.
The feelings that get hurt when the U.S. loses tend to be the folks who think the U.S. should be able to win every game. It is they who has to demand a different product from the NBA or they should stop watching. I don't see that happening though because too many folks still insist the NBA is by far the most superior league despite NBA players not winning the gold. As a form of denial it might even draw Americans closer to the NBA than before, you never know.
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