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Mark Cuban on WC-"the NBA is making a huge mistake"

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Trener
    Bodiroga simply amazing player

    Comment


    • #32
      Mi imamo svoga boga, on se zove Bodiroga.
      Demetrious "Primo Gavrorum Malleus" Diamantidis

      Thank you for all you have given me. 6*
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bxh4eYMxw

      Panathinaikos is not just a club. It's a religion.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

      When the OAKA foundations moved a couple metres
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbFl2mO8E0

      Comment


      • #33
        Straight up, the best european players don't even play in the nba. A bunch sort of leak over every few years or so but 80% don't even play in the nba.

        zisis
        kakouzis
        papaloukis
        scola
        kambala
        diamantidis(this greek dude would shut kobe down, hell half of italy would shut kobe down, it's their roman attitude. they're dominant people that come from a great and powerful civilization. kobe only wishes he was italian)
        navarro
        galanda(torched team usa a few years ago. old now)
        k. lavriinovic(torched team usa for 20+)
        fernanadez
        chatzivretas
        reyes
        jimenez
        soragna(this guy would freakin own kobe as well)
        marconato(owned duncan a few years ago)
        sabonis came to the nba when he was aging and had ruined knees.

        i could go on and list 50 more players from my stat sheet that have effing housed u.s. players

        the u.s. is overrated. if all of the european teams put there best players together on one team, the u.s. would be losing by 30 ppg.

        dirk was an experiment. he hadn't proved anything in europe before he came to the nba. there are many average euro players that could come to the nba now and take it over like dirk. it just depends on the team they land on and the situation.

        euros come to nba for one thing these days and that is money. when that drys up, say goodbye to excitement and skill in u.s. bball.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by pecker
          Straight up, the best european players don't even play in the nba. A bunch sort of leak over every few years or so but 80% don't even play in the nba.

          zisis
          kakouzis
          papaloukis
          scola
          kambala
          diamantidis(this greek dude would shut kobe down, hell half of italy would shut kobe down, it's their roman attitude. they're dominant people that come from a great and powerful civilization. kobe only wishes he was italian)
          navarro
          galanda(torched team usa a few years ago. old now)
          k. lavriinovic(torched team usa for 20+)
          fernanadez
          chatzivretas
          reyes
          jimenez
          soragna(this guy would freakin own kobe as well)
          marconato(owned duncan a few years ago)
          sabonis came to the nba when he was aging and had ruined knees.

          i could go on and list 50 more players from my stat sheet that have effing housed u.s. players

          the u.s. is overrated. if all of the european teams put there best players together on one team, the u.s. would be losing by 30 ppg.

          dirk was an experiment. he hadn't proved anything in europe before he came to the nba. there are many average euro players that could come to the nba now and take it over like dirk. it just depends on the team they land on and the situation.

          euros come to nba for one thing these days and that is money. when that drys up, say goodbye to excitement and skill in u.s. bball.
          This post is not very realistic. Kobe is the best player in the game at the moment. The closest thing we got to Michael Jordan. No, he'll never be Jordan, he's not that smart/popular but you got to realise he's is the BEST offensive talent in the game PERIOD! Of course international game is different and he wouldn't dominate like that because of zone defenses and different style, but a player that can put the ball in the basket from any situation is always helpful to a team. The NBA remains the dream of most players in Europe too, some are realistic and know they are not NBA type players so they make their careers in Europe and that's fine. Some others like Dirk HAD to go because they were too talented not to go. They had to do it for themselves and for the game itself!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by pecker
            zisis
            kakouzis
            papaloukis
            scola
            kambala
            diamantidis(this greek dude would shut kobe down, hell half of italy would shut kobe down, it's their roman attitude. they're dominant people that come from a great and powerful civilization. kobe only wishes he was italian)
            navarro
            galanda(torched team usa a few years ago. old now)
            k. lavriinovic(torched team usa for 20+)
            fernanadez
            chatzivretas
            reyes
            jimenez
            soragna(this guy would freakin own kobe as well)
            marconato(owned duncan a few years ago)
            80%, really?

            I think anyone can come up with a list that counters this one not only in talent and ability, but in sheer numbers of Euro players that have attempted the NBA. I am almost certain I could match your list solely with players from the former-Yugoslavia -- Divac, Rakocevic, Milicic, Stojakovic, Krstic, Ilic, Drobjnak, Radmanovic, Planinic, Carbarkapa, Danilovic, Sakovic, Jaric, Pavlovic, Rebraca and I am sure I missing another 3-5. Again, these are just former-Yugoslav players...

            If I am not mistaken, Kambala tried out for a couple US teams and failed to make the grade, while Scola, Navarro, Zisis, and Fernandez are destined to try the NBA sometime. Whether they are successful is another question.

            Stuart
            http://www.facebook.com/interbasket
            http://www.twitter.com/interbasket
            http://www.interbasket.net

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by pecker
              zisis
              kakouzis
              papaloukis
              scola
              kambala
              diamantidis(this greek dude would shut kobe down, hell half of italy would shut kobe down, it's their roman attitude. they're dominant people that come from a great and powerful civilization. kobe only wishes he was italian)
              navarro
              galanda(torched team usa a few years ago. old now)
              k. lavriinovic(torched team usa for 20+)
              fernanadez
              chatzivretas
              reyes
              jimenez
              soragna(this guy would freakin own kobe as well)
              marconato(owned duncan a few years ago)
              sabonis came to the nba when he was aging and had ruined knees.
              Go and see your doctor. You need HELP
              47-70
              76-58

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by bball1234
                I truly do believe that if international rules were followed in the states, that the US would fair much better int hese tournaments. ,

                Another thing about this is that teh WC mean little to americans, most dont even really know that it went on unfortunantely. The olymipics are a bigger deal, but that shoudltn affect our winning.
                Interesting point. Let me ask you, if the NBA adopted international rules, would Lebron James and Dwayne Wade still be the superstars they are? Or would they become just "good" or average players? You have to consider that first before you make your assumption.

                You must believe:

                a)the same players will still be the superstars under a new system, or

                b) that a different group (or type) of players would end up representing the U.S. in the international tournaments. If you believe the latter, do you think the U.S. should still be the overwhelming favorite?

                If you believe the former, tell us how the current U.S. players will adapt to the new system. You will have to convince us that Lebron will plant himself and hit open three pointers all day.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Waneko
                  Interesting point. Let me ask you, if the NBA adopted international rules, would Lebron James and Dwayne Wade still be the superstars they are? Or would they become just "good" or average players? You have to consider that first before you make your assumption.
                  Superstars and etc labels are created by NBA media. What I could say that LeBron or Wade would be 70-80% of what they are if "star-treatment" wasnt so favored by NBA refs there. What would change adoption of international rules if NBA refs would still call those unexesting fouls on every move of superstar or dont call travelling?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Zalgirinis
                    Superstars and etc labels are created by NBA media. What I could say that LeBron or Wade would be 70-80% of what they are if "star-treatment" wasnt so favored by NBA refs there. What would change adoption of international rules if NBA refs would still call those unexesting fouls on every move of superstar or dont call travelling?
                    Yes, when I was thinking about the NBA adopting the international game, I included changing how fouls are called (which is very different), but I left out the superstar preferential element of it. Americans need individual heros, as it goes along with the cultural norm of the importance of individual achievement being above all else. So obviously David Stern and Co. figured out that marketing the game with individuals instead of teams makes the people more interested.

                    It works too. My wife, who knows little about the game, can recognize Lebron's face on television, but doesn't know the name of the any of the teams.

                    Anyway, you're right, any change towards making the NBA more like the international game will have to include cracking down on the preferential treatment stars get from the refs, which has been going on for decades. I venture to say that they would lose a lot of fans that way. Not the real fans like the people who post here, but the fair weather fans who bring in a great chunk of the revenue for the league.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Waneko
                      Anyway, you're right, any change towards making the NBA more like the international game will have to include cracking down on the preferential treatment stars get from the refs, which has been going on for decades. I venture to say that they would lose a lot of fans that way. Not the real fans like the people who post here, but the fair weather fans who bring in a great chunk of the revenue for the league.
                      I disagree strongly with this. NBA revenue mainly comes from national advertisers - sponsorships - television contracts; and most exposure for teams comes through television. Fair weather fans watch it on tv and don't have to even go to the arenas; even if they wanted to they couldn't afford it.

                      The flattening of media in the U.S. means anyone with a basic cable subscription can see two to five NBA games during the regular season without trying hard at all. If you have an extended cable or satellite connection like I do, you can catch almost any team, even on the opposite coast, and if you want to spend even just a little more money, you can see all the teams on a subscription. For the cost of one night of NBA basketball, I could subscribe and see every single game, every single team, on my television. An NBA all access pass, or whatever it's called, goes for about $160, which is the cost of a first-tier ticket at the Charlotte Bobcats. I can drive two hours to see the Bobcats, but I have only done so when I had free tickets provided to me by the television stations on which our law firm advertises. And I like the Bobcats, more or less. I prefer watching college ball, but I'm ready to get on the bandwagon if Morrison pans out.

                      Arena revenue comes from local businesses primarily which buy sky boxes and blocks of seats; ticket prices have to be extremely high to justify the cost of investment in the arenas the NBA wants; contracts are ridiculously large for players. Blaming all of this on individual play versus team play is short-sighted in my opinion. It's like the chicken and the egg argument. And I don't believe the refs show deferential treatment, either. It's simplistic to the extreme.
                      Michelle Tackabery
                      Tackabery Chronicle
                      Durham, NC, USA

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by mktackabery
                        And I don't believe the refs show deferential treatment, either. It's simplistic to the extreme.
                        Are you KIDDING me???

                        No preferential treatment?

                        None whatsoever???

                        Really?

                        I believe you (Michelle) brought up a lot of valid arguments regarding the NBA and its sources of revenue and fair weather fans but the sentence quoted above renders, imo, your entire argument void and meaningless.
                        Unicajism (or Unicajian Performance Fluctuation Syndrome: UPFS) in all its glory

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Billy
                          Are you KIDDING me???

                          No preferential treatment?

                          None whatsoever???

                          Really?

                          I believe you (Michelle) brought up a lot of valid arguments regarding the NBA and its sources of revenue and fair weather fans but the sentence quoted above renders, imo, your entire argument void and meaningless.
                          oh come now, Billy, isn't that throwing the baby out with the bath water? I didn't say no preferential treatment or that they never got preferential treatment, just that it's simplistic to think that they just get away with whatever they want and that's the way it is.

                          I'm presuming (dangerous word) preferential treatment is 100% deferment to them; they couldn't possibly treat them all like emperors and always give them their way. Of course they sometimes get calls, so do coaches, and a lot of times refs just don't see them play dirty or get away with things, but they have to have some balance. and I know I've seen instances where refs pick on a player on purpose to knock him down a peg or two, which God knows, in the NBA a lot of players should have happen more often.

                          Hey, I'm no NBA apologist. Watch the ACC. Then you can complain that the refs always give Coach K preferential treatment.
                          Michelle Tackabery
                          Tackabery Chronicle
                          Durham, NC, USA

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by mktackabery
                            I disagree strongly with this. NBA revenue mainly comes from national advertisers - sponsorships - television contracts; and most exposure for teams comes through television. Fair weather fans watch it on tv and don't have to even go to the arenas; even if they wanted to they couldn't afford it.

                            The flattening of media in the U.S. means anyone with a basic cable subscription can see two to five NBA games during the regular season without trying hard at all. If you have an extended cable or satellite connection like I do, you can catch almost any team, even on the opposite coast, and if you want to spend even just a little more money, you can see all the teams on a subscription. For the cost of one night of NBA basketball, I could subscribe and see every single game, every single team, on my television. An NBA all access pass, or whatever it's called, goes for about $160, which is the cost of a first-tier ticket at the Charlotte Bobcats. I can drive two hours to see the Bobcats, but I have only done so when I had free tickets provided to me by the television stations on which our law firm advertises. And I like the Bobcats, more or less. I prefer watching college ball, but I'm ready to get on the bandwagon if Morrison pans out.

                            Arena revenue comes from local businesses primarily which buy sky boxes and blocks of seats; ticket prices have to be extremely high to justify the cost of investment in the arenas the NBA wants; contracts are ridiculously large for players. Blaming all of this on individual play versus team play is short-sighted in my opinion. It's like the chicken and the egg argument. And I don't believe the refs show deferential treatment, either. It's simplistic to the extreme.
                            Sorry, I didn't mean to indicate that the revenue came directly from the fair weather fans. Of course the NBA gets their revenue from sponsorship and televesion, but my point was that they wouldn't if the game didn't appeal to the masses, as opposed to just basketball junkies. Without the fair weather fans the television ratings would be lower and that would mean less tv money and less advertising bucks.

                            As for the contracts being rediculously large, I disagree. Why shouldn't the players get what the market will bear?

                            As for the refs, the treatment they give stars is so obvious that broadcasters routinely point it out. And when they do, it isn't out of protest. It's quite clear that they condone it.

                            If you don't think the individual style of play plays a role in the U.S. not winning international tournaments, then what do you think it is?
                            Last edited by Waneko; 09-20-2006, 01:52 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Waneko
                              If you don't think the individual style of play plays a role in the U.S. not winning international tournaments, then what do you think it is?
                              This may strike you as simplistic, but in my terms it's a marketing problem - share of voice - international basketball does not have the market share in the U.S., and the employers (NBA teams) are not vested in giving them any. From their point of view, why should they (Cuban's point)? They market their product aggressively, they lock their players in with big contracts, (separate issue, I'm all for paying people what they are worth, but I don't care what you do, no one is worth millions of dollars for athletics and I am not disparaging anyone's talent), long exhausting seasons - what's the return for sharing their players with international fans?

                              Of course it would be better basketball IMHO but the NBA doesn't owe anyone better basketball, they owe shareholders and owners and players, and for players to work, they have to play in the system, and without some system there is no basketball . . . in Cuban's terms there is no upside to a true international league that would include the U.S. . . . I guess that's the problem.
                              Michelle Tackabery
                              Tackabery Chronicle
                              Durham, NC, USA

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by mktackabery
                                This may strike you as simplistic, but in my terms it's a marketing problem - share of voice - international basketball does not have the market share in the U.S., and the employers (NBA teams) are not vested in giving them any. From their point of view, why should they (Cuban's point)? They market their product aggressively, they lock their players in with big contracts, (separate issue, I'm all for paying people what they are worth, but I don't care what you do, no one is worth millions of dollars for athletics and I am not disparaging anyone's talent), long exhausting seasons - what's the return for sharing their players with international fans?

                                Of course it would be better basketball IMHO but the NBA doesn't owe anyone better basketball, they owe shareholders and owners and players, and for players to work, they have to play in the system, and without some system there is no basketball . . . in Cuban's terms there is no upside to a true international league that would include the U.S. . . . I guess that's the problem.
                                You're right that the NBA doesn't owe anything to the international game. I don't make any association with player salaries and whether they should feel obligated to play for team U.S.A. The players should do it for national pride, nothing more.

                                The feelings that get hurt when the U.S. loses tend to be the folks who think the U.S. should be able to win every game. It is they who has to demand a different product from the NBA or they should stop watching. I don't see that happening though because too many folks still insist the NBA is by far the most superior league despite NBA players not winning the gold. As a form of denial it might even draw Americans closer to the NBA than before, you never know.

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