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Thread: Mark Cuban on WC-"the NBA is making a huge mistake"

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    Senior Member mktackabery's Avatar
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    Default Mark Cuban on WC-"the NBA is making a huge mistake"

    Mark Cuban, outspoken owner of the Dallas Mavericks, posted his thoughts yesterday on the participation of the NBA in the WC and other Olympic qualifying tournaments entitled "Lets Talk NBA & Olympics & WC ...again." As usual he boils things down to a financial equation. From a financial point of view (i.e., as the owner of a sports franchise) I can see some points, but I flat-out disagree with him on point 3 - I think how the U.S. performs in international competition matters.

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    Among the interesting things Cuban asserts: the U.S. Dream Team did not "ignite" international basketball, access to media, especially digital media, did. DVDs, videos, tapes, audio, internet, etc. Also basketball has been fueled by an influx of cash:
    Cash is king around the world, even in the most Communist of countries. As you can tell from the Olympics own site, they give out a TON of cash to international federations every year. The Olympics bring in 4 BILLION plus dollars every Olympic cyle. 92 percent of that money is distributed . International Federations that provide athletes to the Olympics get about $10mm each. Thats a lot of money to spend on developing their sport. On the flipside, its still relatively cheap to rollout a basketball and put up a basic hoop on a telephone pole.
    Lastly, he asserts that there is no other sport for a guy over 6'5" to play except basketball. (Like I said, Cuban boils this stuff all the way down to very simplistic points). But most interesting of all, he says that if anyone was really interested in national pride and making basketball an international sport, the U.S. would change their rules to mesh with international rules. But Americans only care if their NBA team wins, not if their country team wins. He asserts that if the WC was played and not a single NBA player participated, none of the above would change.

    Personally on the last point is where I disagree with Cuban the most. I could give a bleep about the NBA and I certainly don't feel passionate enough about any NBA team to care more about them than the national team. But I didn't feel as passionate about the U.S. team this year as I did about Turkey's team, and the reason is because I cared about a player on Turkey's team who plays for my college team, which I am passionate about. (I'll thumb-wrestle you if you dis my Wolfpack). Cuban boils basketball down to financials, and I think this is the biggest problem in the U.S. People would support the U.S. team, if anyone told any stories about the teams they were playing against, about the formation of the team itself, etc. etc. But the sports media in the U.S. this summer talked about U.S. football ad nauseum, and baseball. The World Cup of Soccer and curling in the Winter Olympics got more air time this year than the WC. If you are from the U.S., tell me I'm wrong.

    Anyway, I'm going on longer than I meant to . . . just wanted to see if anyone had any opinions on what Cuban said. Those are mine.
    Michelle Tackabery
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    Senior Member bobo81's Avatar
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    Whatever, Mark always has something cute to say. Most importantly, UM-Canes will whoop NC State's tail this season!
    "...I got the hand that will rock your craddle / cream you like cheese spread you on my bagel..." - Shaq

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    The NBA people talk about the development of basketball like if they were bringing Civilization to barbarian tribes who eat their children. Gimme a break, this is not a sport nobody cares about, like American football. There was already an International Federation of Basketball like 15 years before the NBA existed. We don’t need anybody to come to teach us how to bounce the freaking ball.

    No, the NBA has nothing to do with the development of basketball overseas, it’s not like we suddenly figured out how to play when we had access to the NBA, like if they had enlightened us or something.

    Now I have a question: For a guy who doesn’t know the game what’s the difference between a dunk by Lebron James and another one from Olimpio Cipriano? Is a 3 pointer by Joe Johnson different from a 3 point shot of Larry Ayuso? I don’t think so. Then I don’t see how watching the US team could arise a special interest for the game in countries where basketball is less popular, I mean, other than the interest aroused by the very World Championship.

    The point is the goal in sending the NBA players is not promoting basketball, but promoting the NBA itself. The problem is that, right now, the image of the US national team is below the level of quality the NBA brand advertises.
    Last edited by King Bowser Koopa; 09-04-2006 at 09:18 PM.

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    Senior Member bobo81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Bowser Koopa
    No, the NBA has nothing to do with the development of basketball overseas, it’s not like we suddenly figured out how to play when we had access to the NBA, like if they had enlightened us or something.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...ance&x=35&y=17
    "...I got the hand that will rock your craddle / cream you like cheese spread you on my bagel..." - Shaq

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    On The US media ignoring the World Championship, I subscribe what Sarcosochus wrote at the “Reader Comments”

    “The reason the World champs aren't big news in the US is simple: you all know you're losing, and are going to keep losing, and you cant handle it. So you downplay it and look away. Classic sour grapes, its as simple as that.”
    I would say the attitude of the American media towards the World Championship of basketball is similar to the way we, Europeans, affront the football (soccer in USA) Intercontinental Cup. The Intercontinental Cup, also known as the World Club Championship was a one match competition played each year, between the winner of the European competition (Champions League) and the winner of the South American competition (Copa Libertadores) with the purpose of determining who is the top club in the world.

    But the problem is that our self-image of superiority in what respects to football clubs is deeply rooted. So people in Europe take it this way: if we win, it’s the indisputable proof that we have the best football clubs in the world. If we lose, it´s the indisputable proof that this tournament means nothing.

    Now, the Intercontinental Cup is ignored by European media even more than the World Championships are ignored by American media. But I see a parallelism here.

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    Senior Member Digdis's Avatar
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    Pasting here what I've posted in another thread (about whether team USA should replace its coach). I think my post is more relevant here. Some points I've posted are basically similar to what he said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digdis
    Hmmm... I don't think that the coach is the MAIN problem of team USA. I mean, of course his part in the relative failure of the team was substantial, but I think he's only a symptom. The main problem with team USA is their (lack of) commitment for this whole WC. I'm talking about the players, coach, management, NBA, media, people - everyone.
    Look at the facts:
    - The team only had 3 weeks to practice. Much less than other teams.
    - The team was far from including the best American players. I mean Wade-Anthony-James are legitimate all stars, but the rest are far from being the best.
    - You could see that the coach and players have never spent the time to learn the opponents. Carmelo Anthony, when asked about the greeks, told that "they have extremely long names". I think this attitude wasn't only his.
    - Media coverage. As the games were in Japan TZ, you wouldn't expect an intensive media coverage in the US, would you.

    I think that all of these are symptoms to the lack of commitment in the US for this championship (or any other international championships). Do you see an American player trading places with Gasol - winning the WC, but missing the first 3 months of the season due to the injury? Do you see the NBA cutting the season shorter to allow the NT to practice more for the WC? Do you see the people celebrating in the street after wining the WC, or crucifying the team after losing?
    Not saying that team USA can't take an international title from time to time. The amount of talent there should be enough for doing so each time. All they need is to commit for this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digdis
    Media coverage. As the games were in Japan TZ, you wouldn't expect an intensive media coverage in the US, would you.
    If that pretends to be a “We lose because we don’t care” excuse, it fails. “We don’t care because we lose” fits better.

    You could see that the coach and players have never spent the time to learn the opponents. Carmelo Anthony, when asked about the greeks, told that "they have extremely long names". I think this attitude wasn't only his.
    Well, ask Papaloukas about the Qatari players.

    The team was far from including the best American players. I mean Wade-Anthony-James are legitimate all stars, but the rest are far from being the best.
    I think we can call that the excuses infinite loop. We didn’t send our best players. Fair, bring your All Stars (Duncan, Marion, etcetera). We didn’t have a legitimate shooter. Ok, bring Joe Johnson. We didn’t have a point guard. Well, bring Chris Paul. We lack a scorer in the inside. Bring Elton Brand, then. We sent an all star team without role players. Fair. Bring Shane Battier. We didn’t send our best players…

    So you want an explanation, I have one: The NBA is not as superior as advertised. Live with that.

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    Senior Member Digdis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Bowser Koopa
    So you want an explanation, I have one: The NBA is not as superior as advertised. Live with that.
    Wasn't arguing whether the NBA was superior or not. Gasol, Spanoulis, Nowitzki & Ginobilli also play in the NBA, so what does it have to do with anything? My point is that one of the key factors in the success of any NT is its commitment for victory, and as you don't get it in the US team and surroundings, you will get a good reason for its relative failure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digdis
    Wasn't arguing whether the NBA was superior or not. Gasol, Spanoulis, Nowitzki & Ginobilli also play in the NBA, so what does it have to do with anything? My point is that one of the key factors in the success of any NT is its commitment for victory, and as you don't get it in the US team and surroundings, you will get a good reason for its relative failure.
    Both of you guys are absolutely correct as the NBA is not superior and we always have an excuse ready. As for Mark Cuban,you have to understand,Tach,that his opinion is shaped by his business interest, He doesnt like to see his "product" the NBA lose value as it does when its team members lose- especially to a great Greek team who arent part of his profit structure. US always made excuses when Soviet nations would beat us also.
    We d never admit that their research and training techniques were far superior. But, of course, Cuban is very smart businessman,obviously.

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    mktackabery, I absolutely agree with your conclusions.
    Do you believe that the NBA expansion to Europe or to Asia would provoke that the USA fans were identifying more with the NBA teams of his city or of his country?
    Would not be the NBA a hotter competition with "fights" among cities or among countries?
    I think that this is what the European clubs can contribute to the NBA; more identification with the shirt or with the emblem of the team.


    PD:"A Winter SuperGames, A Summer SuperGames every 4 years"
    Last edited by chez-martin; 09-05-2006 at 12:33 PM.

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    Senior Member mktackabery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trener
    Both of you guys are absolutely correct as the NBA is not superior and we always have an excuse ready. As for Mark Cuban,you have to understand,Tach,that his opinion is shaped by his business interest, He doesnt like to see his "product" the NBA lose value as it does when its team members lose- especially to a great Greek team who arent part of his profit structure. US always made excuses when Soviet nations would beat us also.
    We d never admit that their research and training techniques were far superior. But, of course, Cuban is very smart businessman,obviously.
    oh, absolutely, I just think he gets simplistic over it sometimes and it's "all about the money" with him, and obviously that's not the reason these players are in the games. I made the point on his blog that if he's so upset about having to give away his product (Dirk) for free, and risking him getting injured, then he should market it and try to get some leverage out of it. Instead, the NBA tries to ignore the games as much as possible . . . which is sad. I work in marketing, and if you take the purely financial position, they are losing a golden opportunity to market their teams and players even more on the world stage.
    Michelle Tackabery
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    Senior Member mktackabery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chez-martin
    mktackabery, I absolutely agree with your conclusions.
    Do you believe that the NBA expansion to Europe or to Asia would provoke that the USA fans were identifying more with the NBA teams of his city or of his country?
    Would not be the NBA a hotter competition with "fights" among cities or among countries?
    I think that this is what the European clubs can contribute to the NBA; more identification with the shirt or with the emblem of the team.


    PD:"A Winter SuperGames, A Summer SuperGames every 4 years"
    yes, definitely! agreed.
    Michelle Tackabery
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    Durham, NC, USA

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    Senior Member mktackabery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Bowser Koopa
    On The US media ignoring the World Championship, I subscribe what Sarcosochus wrote at the “Reader Comments”



    I would say the attitude of the American media towards the World Championship of basketball is similar to the way we, Europeans, affront the football (soccer in USA) Intercontinental Cup. The Intercontinental Cup, also known as the World Club Championship was a one match competition played each year, between the winner of the European competition (Champions League) and the winner of the South American competition (Copa Libertadores) with the purpose of determining who is the top club in the world.

    But the problem is that our self-image of superiority in what respects to football clubs is deeply rooted. So people in Europe take it this way: if we win, it’s the indisputable proof that we have the best football clubs in the world. If we lose, it´s the indisputable proof that this tournament means nothing.

    Now, the Intercontinental Cup is ignored by European media even more than the World Championships are ignored by American media. But I see a parallelism here.
    Yes, I see your point well. How can you measure your team's victory or loss if you don't know the full measure of your opponent?
    Michelle Tackabery
    Tackabery Chronicle
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    Senior Member kestas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mktackabery
    International Federations that provide athletes to the Olympics get about $10mm each.


    what federations: Olympic? ....maybe basketball (that would be plain absurd)?
    I seriously doubt Lithuania has ever recieved 10 mln USD from International Olympic Comitee just because we participate in the Games.

    am I hopelessly uneducated, or is Cuban writing complete bulls*it?

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    Senior Member kestas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chez-martin
    Do you believe that the NBA expansion to Europe or to Asia would provoke that the USA fans were identifying more with the NBA teams of his city or of his country?
    good point!
    indeed under the current sircumstances major NBA clubs losing to Euroleague clubs in friendly games that matter nothing would probably cause MUCH more interest and dissapointment among USA public than their NT failing to beat Greece or Spain or whatever even if that was during the Olympic games.
    therefore one must agree that the inniciatives like the NBA Europe Live! should grow considerably in the future (growth will depend on how soon and how often we will beat NBA representatives). sure, this puts international competitions in danger (possible substitution by global club competitions), but it's actually hard to say, what the polytical cituation will look in, say, 20 or 30 years.. it's so darn unpredictable.. sure, now I would like the international competitions of national NTs to go on forever, but heck knows how international communities will develop.

    btw, NBA Europe Live! last year it seemed that some of the teams that were included are really poor. and Kazan was one of them.. but look at them now: Lavrinovic twins, Cikalkin, Stombergas, Samoilenko with LTU NT coach Sireika and two of his assistants (Chomicius and Krapikas) at the helm. other players I have never heard of, but who cares I actually believe this team will have more chances to beat NBA club than Maccabi, who'll take part in a semi serious mini tournament along with CSKA as Euroleague finalists.
    Last edited by kestas; 09-05-2006 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Bowser Koopa
    So you want an explanation, I have one: The NBA is not as superior as advertised. Live with that.

    If the NBA is not superior than let me ask you a question. Why do all of the internaitional superstars go to teh NBA? Look, I think you can agree with me most of the best international stars find their way to teh NBA. (Gasol, Nowitiziki, Yao, ginobili, nocioni, even some greeks are following the trend) SO, how is Ball overseas superior to the NBA if all of your stars are playing in the NBA? the NBA is clearly superior, but its a different type of basketball, even in college, even in high school, even in youth leagues, the games different here in the US. THe matter of the fact is that the Americans arent as familiar with international play as all these other teams are because their leagues follow internationl rules. I truly do believe that if international rules were followed in the states, that the US would fair much better int hese tournaments. , HOw cdan you expect to teach a team the ins and outs of playing and attacking a zone and learing international ball in 3 weeks when other teams have beeen exposed to this kind of play for their whole lives? it isnt realistic. Another thing about this is that teh WC mean little to americans, most dont even really know that it went on unfortunantely. The olymipics are a bigger deal, but that shoudltn affect our winning. that being said, weve fialed to win the gold int eh olympics what, 1ce? in all of histroy..I think the us wil be back on track in 08 olympics,. I odnt understnad though, how greece comes out firing against the US 63%? then doenst even score 50 points against spain? i dont get it how can they go from so terrific to so pathetic? but how was US even 6 points within with theyre poor shooting..I tihnk US needs to learn to play D, theyll score, top scorers in tourney, gotta play D htough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bball1234
    If the NBA is not superior than let me ask you a question. Why do all of the internaitional superstars go to teh NBA? Look, I think you can agree with me most of the best international stars find their way to teh NBA. (Gasol, Nowitiziki, Yao, ginobili, nocioni, even some greeks are following the trend) SO, how is Ball overseas superior to the NBA if all of your stars are playing in the NBA? the NBA is clearly superior, but its a different type of basketball, even in college, even in high school, even in youth leagues, the games different here in the US. THe matter of the fact is that the Americans arent as familiar with international play as all these other teams are because their leagues follow internationl rules. I truly do believe that if international rules were followed in the states, that the US would fair much better int hese tournaments. , HOw cdan you expect to teach a team the ins and outs of playing and attacking a zone and learing international ball in 3 weeks when other teams have beeen exposed to this kind of play for their whole lives? it isnt realistic. Another thing about this is that teh WC mean little to americans, most dont even really know that it went on unfortunantely. The olymipics are a bigger deal, but that shoudltn affect our winning. that being said, weve fialed to win the gold int eh olympics what, 1ce? in all of histroy..I think the us wil be back on track in 08 olympics,. I odnt understnad though, how greece comes out firing against the US 63%? then doenst even score 50 points against spain? i dont get it how can they go from so terrific to so pathetic? but how was US even 6 points within with theyre poor shooting..I tihnk US needs to learn to play D, theyll score, top scorers in tourney, gotta play D htough.

    The pick and roll killed the US the whole game and thats the defense they play 82gamees a year BUT because the Greek team was SUPERIOR and could actually execute and read when the defense switches , steps out ,
    goes under the screen, goes over the screen ... things the NBA misses every night.. they could score very easily....
    I ve coached in the US for 20years and every team I coached knew about zone defenses again it s a matter of teamwork that NBA doesnt even
    recognize.....Funny how Lebropn James looked very human in the WC.....Hmmm makes you wonder about NBA.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trener
    Funny how Lebropn James looked very human in the WC.....Hmmm makes you wonder about NBA.....
    Not really, how could u say NBA isnt superior when international stars such as dowitziki, Gasol, Manu, Yao, Noccioni, etc got oplay in the NBA. The NBA has the best players in the world no question, all these players do tehir hting during teh WC, so u rsyaing hte league with all the top players isnt superior?

    Lets not forget how young lebron is compared to his competition.....

    Just answer how teh NBA isnt superior with all the international stars you claim make it inferior?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bball1234
    Not really, how could u say NBA isnt superior when international stars such as dowitziki, Gasol, Manu, Yao, Noccioni, etc got oplay in the NBA. The NBA has the best players in the world no question, all these players do tehir hting during teh WC, so u rsyaing hte league with all the top players isnt superior?

    Lets not forget how young lebron is compared to his competition.....

    Just answer how teh NBA isnt superior with all the international stars you claim make it inferior?
    What makes it inferior is the standard of play...now its 2steps before they put the ball one the floor..carrying with the ball...change of pivot foot on post moves and no whistle... mystery fouls to get Lebron and DWade to the foulline....lousy lousy passing... always uncontested dunks...Did you see any of that when US went hard to the rim to slam? No There actually was defense and we bricked most of the freethrows... They wont allow a real ZONE in the NBA becasue it would change the whole league..it wouldnt be OK idunk on you and then you dunk on me we ll both on ESPN..NBAsets the tone for all US basketball.. Watch NCAA now you ll see pivot foot changes and no call and the rest

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