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Thread: Greek NT 2011

  1. #1
    Senior Member wardjdim's Avatar
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    Default Greek NT 2011

    After 2 summers of complaining and asking for immediate refreshment, I'm convinced that the Greek team will not be qualifying for World competitions for a few years and will be getting to the Eurobaskets through qualification stages..

    This is, in my opinion, unavoidable. The new format of the Eurobasket is helping today's strong teams become stronger, but Greece is not a strong team. It is a small group of players (Zisis, Spanoulis, Bourousis, Sofo, maybe even Perperoglou) governing the team and maybe passive coaches will never be as passive as Kazlauskas, but they will never have the last word

    My proposition is of course, immediate refreshment, as mentioned before. This means that, as hard as it is, the above mentioned players should never play again for the NT and some other guys (ready or not in 2011, it doesn't matter, because Greece won't go anywhere even with the experienced ones) be there to become the future members

    17 names to follow in the next year.. Any coach who has the balls and isn't afraid of cutting the existing cast (the guys "taking over" from the two Greats, Papaloukas and Diamantidis), fearing he will lose his job, should not call them back and build over the following line:

    G- N. Calathes, Milosevic, Verginis, Sloukas
    G- Vasiliadis, Pappas, Bramos, Giannopoulos
    F- Papanikolaou, P. Calathes, Chrisikopoulos, Jankovic, Kaselakis
    F- Printezis, Kaimakoglou, Fotsis, Tsairelis
    C- Koufos, Mavroidis, Mavrokefalidis, Vouyoukas
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    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Most of these guys are still around their twenties. Theyre still way to young to experiment on. Besides, Greeks are late bloomers. You cant count on the young ones to steadily grow and become stars. Great players usually come out of nowhere when they reach the age between 23 and 26 years.

    Truth is that, based on Greeces talent, this is not a moment for a sweep. The Greek vets should complete the cycle until the next olympics in Londen.

    As crazy as it sounds, Papaloukas never mentioned that he wanted to retire from the NT and I hear rumors that they are trying to convince DD to play for two more years.

    With one of these two guards Greece is still one of the 4 strongest teams in the world.

    Besides, the latest is that Giannakis is about to take over the wheels again.

    GianakisGreece with the roster of the WC 2010 and a few changes, like including Koufos and Vassiliadis, is a medal contender in any tournament. Even if DD does not change his mind.
    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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    Senior Member qiangdade's Avatar
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    Why would anyone think that greece will take part in the 2012 olympics??? I will quote myself on that: Greece will not go to london

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    Senior Member fasoulaki's Avatar
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    I do not share your pessimistic attitude. Greece learned to play well against theoretically weaker opponents. Maybe they will not win a medal in the next EC but they will reach at least the fifth place which should be sufficient to qualify for the Olympics.

    This year many things went bad at the same time and the probability that this will happen again is very small.

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    Senior Member wardjdim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    As crazy as it sounds, Papaloukas never mentioned that he wanted to retire from the NT and I hear rumors that they are trying to convince DD to play for two more years.
    How ridiculous can anyone be to beg a very accomplished 34-year old and a similarly accomplished 31-year old to make an NT comeback under a new coach and with a very unpredictable balance within the team? How motivated will these players be to want to play again, after what happened to Diamantidis this summer? And let's not get into details about the potential relationships of some NT players after this summer and after this season, which will be a 2-team one, in a period that basketball teams will be ruined, players will not be paid, the Players' Union will have strikes, the NT members of the Union might threaten that they will not play in the Eurobasket (they've done that before, it's like a lock-out)?

    Do you think that such players will want to play in the NT under such circumstances? And for what reason? There is no motive at all... They won't exceed any expectation anyway by even winning the gold medal (when, even finishing 5th will be a success in the next Eurobasket)

    No point at all to discuss that matter, IMO
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    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Well, if all of these things you mention indeed happen, than maybe we can have a discussion, until then there is no point arguing conspiracy theories.

    The latest according to Vasilakopoulos is that Diamantidis will reconsider.
    http://sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBaske...as.538656.html

    Besides, I dont think that Diamantidis is that kind of player who thinks about his reputation if Greece succeeds or fails. Retiring at the age of 32 after the London Olympics seems pretty natural to me.

    Papaloukas may be indeed too old, but hes not needed anyway. Greece has enough options in DD, Span, Zisis, Calathes, Vassiliadis.
    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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    Senior Member Red 7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    Well, if all of these things you mention indeed happen, than maybe we can have a discussion, until then there is no point arguing conspiracy theories.

    The latest according to Vasilakopoulos is that Diamantidis will reconsider.
    http://sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBaske...as.538656.html

    Besides, I dont think that Diamantidis is that kind of player who thinks about his reputation if Greece succeeds or fails. Retiring at the age of 32 after the London Olympics seems pretty natural to me.

    Papaloukas may be indeed too old, but hes not needed anyway. Greece has enough options in DD, Span, Zisis, Calathes, Vassiliadis.
    Vasiliadis is so overrated! I feel like people need to categorise him as a scorer just cause he is such a poor defender. Nevermind. Unfortunately, we are kind of lacking in the PG position... we need DD and Papaloukas imo, and they can be good for us for the next two years (until London).

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    Senior Member Luz for 3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    Most of these guys are still around their twenties. Theyre still way to young to experiment on. Besides, Greeks are late bloomers. You cant count on the young ones to steadily grow and become stars. Great players usually come out of nowhere when they reach the age between 23 and 26 years.
    Imo, the quality of the players are the main factor regardless the age. We have some examples of that, Serbian NT and Ricky Rubio. If this new greek generation has some very good players, I think they should make part of the next rosters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    As crazy as it sounds, Papaloukas never mentioned that he wanted to retire from the NT and I hear rumors that they are trying to convince DD to play for two more years.

    With one of these two guards Greece is still one of the 4 strongest teams in the world.
    I hate when the players don't understand their time is over. It happens commonly on basketball and football. I call it selfishness, when a 34/35 years old man is occupying a place someone younger could fill.

    Quote Originally Posted by fasoulaki View Post
    I do not share your pessimistic attitude. Greece learned to play well against theoretically weaker opponents. Maybe they will not win a medal in the next EC but they will reach at least the fifth place which should be sufficient to qualify for the Olympics.

    This year many things went bad at the same time and the probability that this will happen again is very small.
    5th place guarantees the presence in the Olympic Qualifying Tournament, not in the Olympics.
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    Senior Member wardjdim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    Papaloukas may be indeed too old, but hes not needed anyway. Greece has enough options in DD, Span, Zisis, Calathes, Vassiliadis.
    You are confused

    Diamantidis doesn't want to play for the NT
    Spanoulis and Zisis don't want to play either. They just want to play to a fantastic team that they are the leaders

    All these players are out
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    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wardjdim View Post
    You are confused

    Diamantidis doesn't want to play for the NT
    Spanoulis and Zisis don't want to play either. They just want to play to a fantastic team that they are the leaders

    All these players are out
    They want to play. All of them do, but they want to rest every now and then.
    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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    Lmfao at Kaselakis and Tsairelis being Nt material.

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    Senior Member serbianhoops's Avatar
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    It will be a great opportunity for Vasleiadis (finally!), Sloukas and Pappas.

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    Bourousis is only 27 year old I dont know why you want him off the NT team Yes he had a bad WC but he's still most skilled Greek big man. Somebody needs to tell him that his primary job is to play in the paint I think he will do just fine with Ivkovic.
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    Senior Member qiangdade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    They want to play. All of them do, but they want to rest every now and then.
    You really don't have any idea what is going on backstage, do you?

    Anyway, only the finalists of the eurobasket will qualify for the olympics and some further placements will take part in the olympics qualifying round. Either case Greece will not go to London. So quit dreaming...

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    I would "defend" the greek NT against the laughable "why would you think Greek NT will be in london???" and the rather unimaginably wrong starting post (cut off the NT spanouli? bourousi?? lol...), but I don't really feel like I have to.

    Every team can have a bad year, but just in case you still wonder why Greece is a strong team, why Greece will be in London and why Greece will surely be a medal contender, check out Greek NT's history from 1987 up till now.

    Greece was, is, and will be one of the strongest basketball teams in the world.

    After two gold european medals, one silver world medal, one silver european medal, one bronze european medal countless 4th positions, some 5th ones and of course the occasional dips when the team was going through the, completely normal for any NT, transition phase, over a period of 23 years speak for themselves.

    And don't get me started on the medals the younger greek NTs got and are getting. Even this year we got the silver.

    How many years of constantly being in the elite of world basketball are needed to consider Greece a strong team by some? more than 23? 50? 100?

    Bah, I think you will still be bitter.

    PS : The whole conversation reminds me fondly of a spanish friend that was in Greece for some days last month. We talked about how the Spanish NT beat us 6 times in a row. And then I kindly reminded him that before that winning streak, Greece had it's own against Spain in a similar fashion beating them 5-6 times in a row. That was before 2002. So, some people will only see what they want to see, no matter what.

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    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qiangdade View Post
    You really don't have any idea what is going on backstage, do you?

    Anyway, only the finalists of the eurobasket will qualify for the olympics and some further placements will take part in the olympics qualifying round. Either case Greece will not go to London. So quit dreaming...
    I dont know whats going on inside their heads, but at least I draw a logical conclusion. Basketball is these players mind and soul. They played the game since childhood dreaming to be part of the NT and represent their country. Why would some player in his twenties not want to play in the National Team. The main reason (if any) is to get a summer off in order to avoid injures and to rest.

    Other than that, who is to say that they dont want to play for the NT?

    Αnyway, don't want to get too much into this.
    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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    Senior Member Khalid80's Avatar
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    Does the situation look that bad and bleak for the Greek NT? (or is it a bit exaggerated)

    I know the loss of Diamantidis after he announced his retirement from the NT is irreplacable but u guys always find a way to get back especially considering and as previously mentioned Greece has always been able to have new competitive teams for the U19 and U17 World Championships that were competing for the medals.

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    Senior Member fasoulaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luz for 3 View Post
    5th place guarantees the presence in the Olympic Qualifying Tournament, not in the Olympics.
    Exactly! Even the 6th place in the upcoming EC 2011 grants participation in the Olympic qualifying tournament from which 4 or 3 teams will qualify depending if GB gets a direct spot as host nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by wardjdim View Post
    Spanoulis and Zisis don't want to play either. They just want to play to a fantastic team that they are the leaders
    Both players if in good shape can be a leader of the fantastic team the greek NT is.

    Quote Originally Posted by qiangdade View Post
    You really don't have any idea what is going on backstage, do you?
    Feel free to enlighten us!
    Last edited by fasoulaki; 09-21-2010 at 09:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardusted View Post
    I would "defend" the greek NT against the laughable "why would you think Greek NT will be in london???" and the rather unimaginably wrong starting post (cut off the NT spanouli? bourousi?? lol...), but I don't really feel like I have to.

    Every team can have a bad year, but just in case you still wonder why Greece is a strong team, why Greece will be in London and why Greece will surely be a medal contender, check out Greek NT's history from 1987 up till now.

    Greece was, is, and will be one of the strongest basketball teams in the world.

    After two gold european medals, one silver world medal, one silver european medal, one bronze european medal countless 4th positions, some 5th ones and of course the occasional dips when the team was going through the, completely normal for any NT, transition phase, over a period of 23 years speak for themselves.

    And don't get me started on the medals the younger greek NTs got and are getting. Even this year we got the silver.

    How many years of constantly being in the elite of world basketball are needed to consider Greece a strong team by some? more than 23? 50? 100?

    Bah, I think you will still be bitter.

    PS : The whole conversation reminds me fondly of a spanish friend that was in Greece for some days last month. We talked about how the Spanish NT beat us 6 times in a row. And then I kindly reminded him that before that winning streak, Greece had it's own against Spain in a similar fashion beating them 5-6 times in a row. That was before 2002. So, some people will only see what they want to see, no matter what.
    Relax mang, Greece has played before below our supposed "standards". 11 years ago we finished last and in the next in the 9th position. Every country does that, even Serbia and Lithuania who supposedly produce more talents than the rest of the teams. It's the normal circle of the european basket, especially when you keep the same team for half a decade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remon View Post
    Relax mang, Greece has played before below our supposed "standards". 11 years ago we finished last and in the next in the 9th position. Every country does that, even Serbia and Lithuania who supposedly produce more talents than the rest of the teams. It's the normal circle of the european basket, especially when you keep the same team for half a decade.
    I am relaxed, is any post above a certain number of lines limit showing someone as not being relaxed? :P

    On subject, what you say of course is true but it only proves what I say

    We went through a changing team phase and the cost was of course some bad places, for a couple of tournaments, then up to the top again. It is the normal for many great NTs.

    What people don't really understand is that this phase has been going on since the last tournament, and was going on through this world tournament.

    The only thing that makes a great and strong NT, is duration, to last and constantly play for the top. Our NT proved that it is such a team (of course with the now and then "dips" and bad places, that's only normal).

    So, maybe the OP should come here and tell us what the first 6 teams of the next eurobasket will be, since he knows so well that Greece won't be there.

    I would love to see it posted, so that I can bookmark the page and quote it for you in a year from now. I can assure you it will be very very funny.

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