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Thread: VTB League 2010-11

  1. #21
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaslover View Post
    My dear friend,something disturbs you in my post? Explain me please. Or you don,t believe that in one beautiful day VTB League eventually will REPLACE russian and lithuanian national leagues? We,ll see actually...
    Well my friend,it does disturb me if i think you can drink more than me,it does...
    other than that
    you represent nation of 300 millions against our 3 mil.With all your moneys it is me who should be worried.Yet...
    If you want to get personal,hit me with your tel number in private,we can discuss everything in my perfect russian that i speak

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by auris1 View Post
    Well my friend,it does disturb me if i think you can drink more than me,it does...
    other than that
    you represent nation of 300 millions against our 3 mil.With all your moneys it is me who should be worried.Yet...
    If you want to get personal,hit me with your tel number in private,we can discuss everything in my perfect russian that i speak
    Don,t pretend cleveler than you really are...
    What the d..k you mention the population of countries in this post? I don,t want to unite our leagues NO LESS THAN YOU. Believe me. I don,t want TO KEEP your grandees AT OUR EXPENSE. This picture we can see in VTB League now. Better to spend these money on the development of basketball in different regions of Russia.

  3. #23
    Senior Member archaz's Avatar
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    VTB will never replace lithuanian league , because they have EL place.
    + i dont see anything wrond if all russian clubs will play in VTB , its something more interesting then play 5-6 matches in their own league. Theres huge hole between 2-3 EL teams and for example others.
    Its normal to make one big tournament instead of old and stupid "own" leagues , look @ adriatic league .
    Its useless for big clubs to play in their domestic leagues, for example VEF will play with "second" roster in Latvian league , only from PO they will have full roster , same with both lithuanian teams in Baltic league.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaz View Post
    VTB will never replace lithuanian league , because they have EL place.
    + i dont see anything wrond if all russian clubs will play in VTB , its something more interesting then play 5-6 matches in their own league. Theres huge hole between 2-3 EL teams and for example others.
    Its normal to make one big tournament instead of old and stupid "own" leagues , look @ adriatic league .
    Its useless for big clubs to play in their domestic leagues, for example VEF will play with "second" roster in Latvian league , only from PO they will have full roster , same with both lithuanian teams in Baltic league.
    Imho, PRIORITY should always be your DOMESTIC league. I,m still waiting when our domestic league eventually will have no less than 14 clubs. It,s not a utopia,because a such huge country like Russia should have such a number of clubs. As for VTB League, let,s leave it for NOSTALGIC MEETINGS. I suppose this will be enough.

  5. #25
    Senior Member archaz's Avatar
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    Its utopia , because Russia dont have enough Russian players, first of all look @ your NT , theres no reserves , theres no "second" team , imho. Thats why you r playing 10 years with "russian" in team.
    If you want big league , such as ACB or something like that , u need some amount of good domestic players, who will be "kostyak" of all teams , in Russia theres 10 players , then comes big hole and comes again 10 players who are 10 times weaker then first.
    Ofc , theres other side, u can do this things like in Germany , 10 americans + from Serbia and one german, but thats not what did u mean.
    And ofc. you know better what's happening with sport in regions , always big problems with money, look @ your football league , when season starts everyone speaks about money problems , not sporting side. Tom , Samara etc.
    Latvia, Lithuania , Poland + Ukraine / Russian need each other. Russia has big money, but have only 4-5 teams in league , with money from Russia ( like in KHL ) we can give atleast 5 more good teams.

  6. #26
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaslover View Post
    Don,t pretend cleveler than you really are...
    What the d..k you mention the population of countries in this post? I don,t want to unite our leagues NO LESS THAN YOU. Believe me. I don,t want TO KEEP your grandees AT OUR EXPENSE. This picture we can see in VTB League now. Better to spend these money on the development of basketball in different regions of Russia.
    What a brilliant post.Riddled with mistakes in grammar and logic .And overuse of CAPS.Do not worry though.I am not going to bother you again

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaz View Post
    Its utopia , because Russia dont have enough Russian players, first of all look @ your NT , theres no reserves , theres no "second" team , imho. Thats why you r playing 10 years with "russian" in team.
    If you want big league , such as ACB or something like that , u need some amount of good domestic players, who will be "kostyak" of all teams , in Russia theres 10 players , then comes big hole and comes again 10 players who are 10 times weaker then first.
    Ofc , theres other side, u can do this things like in Germany , 10 americans + from Serbia and one german, but thats not what did u mean.
    And ofc. you know better what's happening with sport in regions , always big problems with money, look @ your football league , when season starts everyone speaks about money problems , not sporting side. Tom , Samara etc.
    Latvia, Lithuania , Poland + Ukraine / Russian need each other. Russia has big money, but have only 4-5 teams in league , with money from Russia ( like in KHL ) we can give atleast 5 more good teams.
    I,m sorry man, but i don,t agree with you when you compare (EVEN POTENTIALLY) KHL and VTB League because:
    1) KHL POSITIONING themselves as the best hockey league in europe and moreover, KHL is already a real alternative to the NHL. At least if we talk about hockey players salaries. But how,s going to positioning itself VTB League i can only guess, especially considering that VTB League has such authority rivals as the current euroleague and ACB.
    2) It,s no secret that in Russia hockey more than a game, but unfortunately we can,t say the same about basketball. Seems like not the best advertisement for potential sponsors, for long term investments. Such is the harsh reality...
    3) Attendance at the arenas. In KHL attendance is almost 100%, but if say truth about basketball, need to admit, that most probably only BC Zalgiris Kaunas can gather full arenas. Believe me.
    4) In KHL struggling for Gagarin Cup, so for me quite curious for what will be competing in VTB League? Maybe for 3-4 spots in the EL? An who gives a guarantee, that our richest clubs eventually don,t win all first 4 spots in EL? And what would be afterwards with Lithuania? In fact, nothing good. For their both giants it will be more than a tragedy.
    So imho, it,s quite doubtful compare KHL and VTB League, at least now. Anyway, i sincerely believe that the current system of the tournament IS OPTIMAL. But if once director and GM,s of VTB League invite Partizan, Cibona, Olimpija and Maccabi i,ll be only glad.

  8. #28
    Senior Member archaz's Avatar
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    overall agree , but i didnt mean , that VTB will be on same level with KHL.
    I meant that , from political side we can make big league for east Europe and it will work perfectly , i didnt want to compare both leagues from salary point or attendence. Its useless.
    But KHL is great project and VTB will be same , because we need each other.
    Theres no secret that in Baltics we have good level , but we dont have enough money , in Russia everything is different , for example , we didnt have hockey team in Riga , now , after money from Russia ( Dinamo budget is about 10 million ) and 70-80% comes from Russia , we have big team in big league and thats why we have big attendence , same will be in basketball , 3 years ago , when Barons had good team , attendence was about 7-8k , in that year they won Fiba Cup.
    Its not right to compare them from sporting side , but from organisation / agiotage arond league . In Latvia its huge , everyone is expecting to see Euroleague top-team in Riga, we are hungry.

    About slots , i dont see problems why EL cant give us about 4-5 places in Euroleague , i think theres no doubt that VTB League will instead of Russian league , Latvian etc. VEF Riga already will play only from PO in domestic league , its only start .
    About other teams, Valters said , that Maccabi already wanted to play in VTB this year , but VTB rejected them , because they want only east European teams.

  9. #29
    Senior Member sagenas's Avatar
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    In VTB insterested many European teams but the biggest thing there is a money and strong opponents. In Lithuania, we're not looking at VTB as top league where we must win - VTB it's like good place to develop our players. For example, Lietuvos Rytas next year gonna have 14 players on their roster because they'll play in LKL, VTB, BBL (from PO) and Euroleague - the main thing is training against strong opponents. Our team youngsters will play in domestic leaague (LKL) and will get some time in VTB, but we have priorities - do as much better as we can in Euroleague and win LKL. By all meanings, it's good for our teams and no one is looking seriously at VTB. By the way, the only thing we don't like is because this tournament kinda "Ex-Soviet" type and believe me, how it looked when final four was in Kaunas Sports Hall where Žalgiris and CSKA played their legendary games and etc., the biggest guys from Russia talked in Russian language - everyone felt like it was that old old times, like we're in Soviet. So, that's the bad thing. Also I want to say that Jonas Vainauskas (Rytas GM) said that he asked to make English as a main tournament language because of the last thing (and as he said, it will as he asked).

    And for the end, VTB will never replace domestic leagues, it's just opportunity to develop our basketball teams even more. I hope Šiauliai may join VTB in future too.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagenas View Post
    In VTB insterested many European teams but the biggest thing there is a money and strong opponents. In Lithuania, we're not looking at VTB as top league where we must win - VTB it's like good place to develop our players. For example, Lietuvos Rytas next year gonna have 14 players on their roster because they'll play in LKL, VTB, BBL (from PO) and Euroleague - the main thing is training against strong opponents. Our team youngsters will play in domestic leaague (LKL) and will get some time in VTB, but we have priorities - do as much better as we can in Euroleague and win LKL. By all meanings, it's good for our teams and no one is looking seriously at VTB. By the way, the only thing we don't like is because this tournament kinda "Ex-Soviet" type and believe me, how it looked when final four was in Kaunas Sports Hall where Žalgiris and CSKA played their legendary games and etc., the biggest guys from Russia talked in Russian language - everyone felt like it was that old old times, like we're in Soviet. So, that's the bad thing. Also I want to say that Jonas Vainauskas (Rytas GM) said that he asked to make English as a main tournament language because of the last thing (and as he said, it will as he asked).

    And for the end, VTB will never replace domestic leagues, it's just opportunity to develop our basketball teams even more. I hope Šiauliai may join VTB in future too.
    I agree with you and i really hope that VTB League will never replace our domestic leagues. Moreover, for me would be more interesting to see junior tournament where we could see young guys from CSKA, Zalgiris, BC Khimki, LR, Partizan, Cibona, Budivelnik, VEF, Olimpija. Here at least we could see the INTRIGUE...

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaslover View Post
    I agree with you and i really hope that VTB League will never replace our domestic leagues. Moreover, for me would be more interesting to see junior tournament where we could see young guys from CSKA, Zalgiris, BC Khimki, LR, Partizan, Cibona, Budivelnik, VEF, Olimpija. Here at least we could see the INTRIGUE...
    Junior? Does every club have it? Rytas have quite nice junior team, which plays in the first domestic league. I bet they would win.

    And such tournament wouldn't be sponsored.

  12. #32
    Senior Member archaz's Avatar
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    yeah . And who will give money to these young teams ? Sponsors are not interested in such "product".
    VEF Riga has something similar to Rytas , they have 18 players in roster , 6 of them will play in Latvian league + some guys from 1st team will play + there will be guys who will be after injury to get into shape.
    They will concentrate on Uleb cup + VTB + some games in BBL. In Latvian league teams name will be VEF/Juniors , i think its future model , and lithunians can do same if EL will give advanced EL slots to VTB , i mean priority will become VTB , not LKL because of EL spot.
    Now we have 12 teams , i hope next year we'll have 16 teams and full 2 rounded system. Missing teams should be from Russia , mb 2-3 or all 4, i dont know situation in russian basketball , but yesterday i was watching Shirokovs interview ( VTB GM , who is interested , i can give link in russian lg ) he said , that there was big interest from ~4-5 teams to participate this year , but it was unreal , because , for example Ventpils dont have airport in their city, the nearest is Riga , so its about 200 km , same happened with Anwil, Tartu and i think 1 Ukrainian team , so , my lithuanian friend , its hard to believe ,that Saulai will play in VTB.

  13. #33
    Senior Member sagenas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaz View Post
    yeah . And who will give money to these young teams ? Sponsors are not interested in such "product".
    VEF Riga has something similar to Rytas , they have 18 players in roster , 6 of them will play in Latvian league + some guys from 1st team will play + there will be guys who will be after injury to get into shape.
    They will concentrate on Uleb cup + VTB + some games in BBL. In Latvian league teams name will be VEF/Juniors , i think its future model , and lithunians can do same if EL will give advanced EL slots to VTB , i mean priority will become VTB , not LKL because of EL spot.
    Now we have 12 teams , i hope next year we'll have 16 teams and full 2 rounded system. Missing teams should be from Russia , mb 2-3 or all 4, i dont know situation in russian basketball , but yesterday i was watching Shirokovs interview ( VTB GM , who is interested , i can give link in russian lg ) he said , that there was big interest from ~4-5 teams to participate this year , but it was unreal , because , for example Ventpils dont have airport in their city, the nearest is Riga , so its about 200 km , same happened with Anwil, Tartu and i think 1 Ukrainian team , so , my lithuanian friend , its hard to believe ,that Saulai will play in VTB.
    Klimavičius (Šiauliai GM) said that guys from VTB offered them to play in VTB next season, but because of money reasons, roster and other stuff, they was thinking, what to choose - EuroCup or VTB and they chose EuroCup (prestige).

    By the way, why 200km bothers them? It's kinda short distance...for example, it's not the problem in BBL (yeah, I know about distances from other Russian cities), but it's just a few hours, that's isn't that much.

    Oh, LKL have Euroleague slot, so while Žalgiris have licence and Lietuvos Rytas wins LKL over them, then everything is ok. And...if Lietuvos Rytas won't win LKL, then they'll participate in Euroleague qullification. VTB could be like second option, but LKL always will be our priority (opposite is BBL...)

    What's about junior teams...we have Perlas who next season will be playing LKL and BBL, they're good and next season even can be 3rd in LKL (that would mean EuroCup), everyone sees Perlas with big potential. And Rytas have 14 players in their first team (some of them are young prospects), it's system like and I don't think many teams would be interested in that.

  14. #34
    Senior Member archaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagenas View Post
    Klimavičius (Šiauliai GM) said that guys from VTB offered them to play in VTB next season, but because of money reasons, roster and other stuff, they was thinking, what to choose - EuroCup or VTB and they chose EuroCup (prestige).

    By the way, why 200km bothers them? It's kinda short distance...for example, it's not the problem in BBL (yeah, I know about distances from other Russian cities), but it's just a few hours, that's isn't that much.
    I dont know, but as i said - it was Shirokovs words , maybe in future 200km will not bother them , but know, when teams are playing in 3-4 tournaments ,it's too phisically hard for players to fly to Riga and then drive 3 hours to Ventspils.

    About Eurocups prestige - too hard to believe , in VTB League u have 9-10 guaranteed high level games + from financial side they only wins, because theres system like in Champions League.

  15. #35
    Senior Member sagenas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaz View Post
    I dont know, but as i said - it was Shirokovs words , maybe in future 200km will not bother them , but know, when teams are playing in 3-4 tournaments ,it's too phisically hard for players to fly to Riga and then drive 3 hours to Ventspils.

    About Eurocups prestige - too hard to believe , in VTB League u have 9-10 guaranteed high level games + from financial side they only wins, because theres system like in Champions League.

    Well, no one order them to play in 4 tournaments. It's their own thing, they can do as they wish Like Lietuvos Rytas and Žalgiris gonna have more than 12 players because they'll play in many tournaments.

    Well, you know...EuroCup have good teams, everyone just are looking differently at EuroCup and VTB. I don't know many people who look at VTB as "very good tournament" and etc. It's just things like that. I don't know details, I'm just sayin' what I've heard.

  16. #36
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaz View Post
    because we need each other.
    Theres no secret that in Baltics we have good level , but we dont have enough money ,
    What?
    is it a secret for you to reckon?
    But let me help you - apart from Zalgiris and Lrytas ,and that it is,there is no "we" in Baltic's good level.Just 2 Lithuanian teams- so stop that -we - baltic -decent- teams- shit.
    There are no teams from latvia or estionia as in team or as a country to compare to the level of decent

  17. #37
    Senior Member archaz's Avatar
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    Ofc, with russian money we'll not have decent team and for all Russia it's better to stay and play in their own shitty league with stupid limit and overpaid domestic players. We see how much new players they have, thats why there's always actual question about new american guy with passport.
    In hockey we already proved that with money from Russia we can achieve something.
    Batutin clearly million times said ,that its not interesting to play in Russia league , because theres only 2-3 opponents , the Russian players stays in Russia ,because they get overpaid with this stupid limit , theres no progress at all.
    Look @ Monya , he was NBA level players, then he got contract in Dynamo for about million dollars , now he's worth in Europe about 10k ?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaz View Post
    Ofc, with russian money we'll not have decent team and for all Russia it's better to stay and play in their own shitty league with stupid limit and overpaid domestic players. We see how much new players they have, thats why there's always actual question about new american guy with passport.
    In hockey we already proved that with money from Russia we can achieve something.
    Batutin clearly million times said ,that its not interesting to play in Russia league , because theres only 2-3 opponents , the Russian players stays in Russia ,because they get overpaid with this stupid limit , theres no progress at all.
    Look @ Monya , he was NBA level players, then he got contract in Dynamo for about million dollars , now he's worth in Europe about 10k ?
    My friend, maybe we have quite overpaid players, but Latvia except Biedrins,Valters and Blums has only MEDIOCRE players at all. Current qualifying games your NT just confirmed that one more time...

  19. #39
    Senior Member archaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaslover View Post
    My friend, maybe we have quite overpaid players, but Latvia except Biedrins,Valters and Blums has only MEDIOCRE players at all. Current qualifying games your NT just confirmed that one more time...
    From last EC we have only 2 players left - Freimanis and Kalve , who were last guys in team.
    Then, this year we dont have 10 ( ! ) best players , who said "no" to NT or r disq.
    And in the end, it was Russia who won us in EC in nervous end ? With McCarty who scored more than 20 points ?
    Yes , we dont have branded name in Europe , but dont say they are poor if your NT won only because of one american.

    About qual, put "Hvostovs" , "Shveds" etc as team leaders , who are playing 30+ mins and see the result.

  20. #40
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    I think Russian basketball is being kind of misjudged generally.In the past and nowadays as well.
    IN Lithuania we have only a basketball - that is it.In Russia ,on the other hand,basketball is behind football and ice hockey in terms of importance,plus let's do not forget handball and volleyball.PLus all individual sports like athletics,swimming or chess,etc winter sports,you name it...All them expected to deliver medals.NO more,no less.
    And basketball delivers - man got gold in euro 07,and i think woman basketball is the best example -in Europe's championships they had 7 medals in the last 15 years.
    http://www.fibaeurope.com/pageID_OZl....nfID_381.html
    Plus Olympics and world championships i did not look up for.
    How about youths ? They do get medals on regular basis as well.
    So all well then?
    I do not think so
    Russia (man) have never been favourites to win anything since soviet times
    - although they did so ,probably because nowadays they have too much money and they want results straight away on club level.
    (And every time CSKA wins,all the other heads roll).
    Anyway,for once,i think this competition might be useful for Russians to get and sustain decent level throughout without getting heads chopped for loosing it as it deems to be not that important
    gee,too tired to go on

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