Eurobasket teams VS Euroleague teams

[warface]

Okur is by no means all-star caliber player, and Turkoglu so so.

I agree that Rudy is not a good ballhandler though, specially with his left hand he can barely bounce it twice in a row, that's his biggest flaw.

u might be joke okur named all-star and hedo must have been named

[penzias]

u might be joke okur named all-star and hedo must have been named

So did Jamal Magloire, and Mo Williams, and Theo Ratliff, and Tyrone Hill, and the list goes on.
Being nominated in a single all-star does not turn you in an all-star caliber player.

[Captain CAAAVEMAAAAANNN!!]

I agree that Rudy is not a good ballhandler though, specially with his left hand he can barely bounce it twice in a row, that's his biggest flaw.

Not true

[melizei]

So did Jamal Magloire, and Mo Williams, and Theo Ratliff, and Tyrone Hill, and the list goes on.
Being nominated in a single all-star does not turn you in an all-star caliber player.

You are saying that playing in all-star game doesn't make a player in all-star caliber?What should they do for being in all-star caliber? Memo is not like players as you said.Magloire,Ratliff played good just a season and they became an all-star.I suggest you to look Memo's statistics.Did he play good just a season?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mehmet_okur/career_stats.html

And comparing Rudy to Hedo and Memo?Are you kidding me? Read this news

http://dimemag.com/2009/07/rudy-fernandez-not-cool-with-hedo-to-portland-rumors/

Rudy accepts that Hedo is better than him.But you are not accepting.

[rokaldo]

You are saying that playing in all-star game doesn't make a player in all-star caliber?What should they do for being in all-star caliber? Memo is not like players as you said.Magloire,Ratliff played good just a season and they became an all-star.I suggest you to look Memo's statistics.Did he play good just a season?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mehmet_okur/career_stats.html

And comparing Rudy to Hedo and Memo?Are you kidding me? Read this news

http://dimemag.com/2009/07/rudy-fernandez-not-cool-with-hedo-to-portland-rumors/

Rudy accepts that Hedo is better than him.But you are not accepting.

Personally I would take Rudy over Hedo any time

[CG]

Very good player, would be stars for any euroleague team. But I think they wouldn't dominate as Gasol, Bryant, Nowitzki would.

Add Rudy to PAO, and you'll get a better team; add Gasol or Nowitzki to PAO, and well, you can imagine what could happen. Probably they would destroy every other team.

Maybe I am wrong, but I really think it would be that way.

Do you know that the last seasons there were rumors that PAO was interesting in Rudy?
And this year it seems that Dirk sayed that he would love to come to PAO if not this summer next year..
So you ll never know

nice topic by the way so my opinion is that teams like PAO,CSKA,BARCA would be top favorites to win eurobasket along with Gasol s Spain.All these euroleague teams have the tools to stop (in a way) PAU and qualify against them.Ofcourse Spain would be a heavy favorite too.So i consider both 4 teams in the same level.
From there i would put as candidates also REAL,MTA,OLY,SIENA,BASKONIA which probably would make big things as well.All those 8 teams are in a very high level and surely except Spain no other NT can reach (i mean from this specific eurobasket not hypothetically)
I am not mention Khimki,Malaga and Ulker very good level as well.
So without question Euroleague level especially this year is much much higher than Eurobasket with or without stars

[Morente]

It is really difficult to compare players like Rudy, Turkoglu and Okur. Different ages, different situations, diferent positions...

I don't see them in different leagues, obviously Okur and Turkoglu are more experienced and veteran players, but Rudy has a great future and have shown more playing at international and euroleague level.

I like Turkoglu game so much, but it took him 5 years on the NBA to produce slightly better numbers than Rudy is posting right now. But anyway, I think he is a player that is better than what his stats show, and now in his prime will be a great addition to Toronto that can take them to a different level cause he provides something they lacked badly last season.

On the other hand, Okur is a player I don't like so much for his game but really posted great numbers in Utah. Maybe if he played as power forward with a banger center inside his weakness could be more hidden; playing with Boozer and Millsap doesn't help him. I consider his all star appearence well deserved and not on the same level as Magloire or Ratliff.

When I mentioned them earlier in this thread I was not saying that they aren't good players, just that they wouldn't impact an Euroleague team the same way a Gasol or a Nowitzky really would. Just look at how they have played for Turkish NT, when they were together team was really worse, and this year that only Hedo has been playing he wasn't a key factor for them. They are obviously not difference makers in international level.

Maybe I have been wrong writing the name of 2 turkish players, since there are many that would be great additions for an Euroleague team but not making that difference, which was my point.

And I still think that Eurobasket > Euroleague, maybe this Eurobasket has been a bad example because team have not been very lucky recruiting their stars, but put the best NT that any of the top 8 team this Eurobasket could put together, make them play together for a year with a decent coach in Euroleague, and I guarantee you that they will be at least 6 of the top 8 teams.

Just 2 examples:

Spain:

PG: Calderon, Ricky, Lopez
SG: Navarro, Llull
SF: Rudy, Mumbrú
PF: Garbajosa, Vazquez
C: Gasol, Marc, Reyes

Slovenia:

PG: B. Udrih, Lakovic
SG: Dragic, Vujacic
SF: Nachbar, D. Lorbek, Milic
PF: Smodis, Slokar
C: E. Lorbek, Nesterovic, Brezec

Serbia:

PG: Teodosic, Vujanic
SG: Rakocevic, Tripkovic
SF: Stojakovic, Pavlovic, Tepic
PF: Radmanovic, Velickovic, Macvan
C: Krstic, Milicic

Post me an Euroleague team that could beat those teams or recruit that kind of players.

[Captain CAAAVEMAAAAANNN!!]

But there are Euroleague teams that look like Eurobasket dream teams. For example Barça has Rubio, Navarro, Lakovic, Ilyasova and Lorbek. And we are not counting their American stars. The talent pool for the reachest Euroleague teams is bigger than the one for second tier Eurobasket countries, IMO.

[Perseus1966]

It is really difficult to compare players like Rudy, Turkoglu and Okur. Different ages, different situations, diferent positions...

I don't see them in different leagues, obviously Okur and Turkoglu are more experienced and veteran players, but Rudy has a great future and have shown more playing at international and euroleague level.

I like Turkoglu game so much, but it took him 5 years on the NBA to produce slightly better numbers than Rudy is posting right now. But anyway, I think he is a player that is better than what his stats show, and now in his prime will be a great addition to Toronto that can take them to a different level cause he provides something they lacked badly last season.

On the other hand, Okur is a player I don't like so much for his game but really posted great numbers in Utah. Maybe if he played as power forward with a banger center inside his weakness could be more hidden; playing with Boozer and Millsap doesn't help him. I consider his all star appearence well deserved and not on the same level as Magloire or Ratliff.

When I mentioned them earlier in this thread I was not saying that they aren't good players, just that they wouldn't impact an Euroleague team the same way a Gasol or a Nowitzky really would. Just look at how they have played for Turkish NT, when they were together team was really worse, and this year that only Hedo has been playing he wasn't a key factor for them. They are obviously not difference makers in international level.

Maybe I have been wrong writing the name of 2 turkish players, since there are many that would be great additions for an Euroleague team but not making that difference, which was my point.

And I still think that Eurobasket > Euroleague, maybe this Eurobasket has been a bad example because team have not been very lucky recruiting their stars, but put the best NT that any of the top 8 team this Eurobasket could put together, make them play together for a year with a decent coach in Euroleague, and I guarantee you that they will be at least 6 of the top 8 teams.

Just 2 examples:

Spain:

PG: Calderon, Ricky, Lopez
SG: Navarro, Llull
SF: Rudy, Mumbrú
PF: Garbajosa, Vazquez
C: Gasol, Marc, Reyes

Slovenia:

PG: B. Udrih, Lakovic
SG: Dragic, Vujacic
SF: Nachbar, D. Lorbek, Milic
PF: Smodis, Slokar
C: E. Lorbek, Nesterovic, Brezec

Serbia:

PG: Teodosic, Vujanic
SG: Rakocevic, Tripkovic
SF: Stojakovic, Pavlovic, Tepic
PF: Radmanovic, Velickovic, Macvan
C: Krstic, Milicic

Post me an Euroleague team that could beat those teams or recruit that kind of players.

PAO and OSFP can beat Serbia(without Peja) and Slovenia.

[robbe]

But there are Euroleague teams that look like Eurobasket dream teams. For example Barça has Rubio, Navarro, Lakovic, Ilyasova and Lorbek. And we are not counting their American stars. The talent pool for the reachest Euroleague teams is bigger than the one for second tier Eurobasket countries, IMO.

Exactly. It is also bigger than for most [not all] top tier Eurobasket teams.

It is also a paradox that Morente mentions the chemistry issues Turkey had when both Okur and Turkoglu were playing, and then posts the "full-strength" Slovenia and Serbia rosters, including guys like Vujacic, Milicic, Rakocevic, Radmanovic etc., as examples of strong Eurobasket teams.

For me, Spain and maybe Lithuania at full strength [which, being realistic, won't happen with Siskauskas retired, Ilgauskas never there, Macijauskas injured and Saras getting old] would be elite title contenders on the same level as the elite Euroleague powerhouses.

[rayo1985]

i think: eurobasket < nba < euroleague

[mark123]

Exactly. It is also bigger than for most [not all] top tier Eurobasket teams.

It is also a paradox that Morente mentions the chemistry issues Turkey had when both Okur and Turkoglu were playing, and then posts the "full-strength" Slovenia and Serbia rosters, including guys like Vujacic, Milicic, Rakocevic, Radmanovic etc., as examples of strong Eurobasket teams.

For me, Spain and maybe Lithuania at full strength [which, being realistic, won't happen with Siskauskas retired, Ilgauskas never there, Macijauskas injured and Saras getting old] would be elite title contenders on the same level as the elite Euroleague powerhouses.

Serbia wouldnt be a Euroleague title contender with Stojakovic,Radmanovic,healthy Vujanic,Milicic,Rakocevic,Kecman ???
Maybe we would even take Obradovic as our coach

[FIBA Europe Basket]

He holds the record for most made threepoints as rookie.

Let's compare their stats in their 1st NBA season:

Rudy: 25 mpg, 10.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 2 apg
Hedo:17 mpg, 5.3 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1 apg
Okur: 19 mpg, 6.9 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1 apg

We can clearly see that Okur and Hedo are much better. In fact, why does Rudy even play basketball? After watching Okur and Hedo playing he sohuld retire due to shame.

But only in NBA, because in Eurobaskets they are his bitches

Okur is way better than Rudy. It's not even a discussion. Hedo and Rudy is more debatable. Hedo is more talented and that is without any doubt, but I would rather have Rudy on my team. Hedo loses just as many games as he wins, if not more. But certainly he is a lot more skilled than Rudy.

I don't think you can even compare Okur and Rudy. Okur is just way better.

[MirkoD]

And I still think that Eurobasket > Euroleague, maybe this Eurobasket has been a bad example because team have not been very lucky recruiting their stars, but put the best NT that any of the top 8 team this Eurobasket could put together, make them play together for a year with a decent coach in Euroleague, and I guarantee you that they will be at least 6 of the top 8 teams.
Just 2 examples:

Spain:

PG: Calderon, Ricky, Lopez
SG: Navarro, Llull
SF: Rudy, Mumbrú
PF: Garbajosa, Vazquez
C: Gasol, Marc, Reyes

Slovenia:

PG: B. Udrih, Lakovic
SG: Dragic, Vujacic
SF: Nachbar, D. Lorbek, Milic
PF: Smodis, Slokar
C: E. Lorbek, Nesterovic, Brezec

Serbia:

PG: Teodosic, Vujanic
SG: Rakocevic, Tripkovic
SF: Stojakovic, Pavlovic, Tepic
PF: Radmanovic, Velickovic, Macvan
C: Krstic, Milicic

Post me an Euroleague team that could beat those teams or recruit that kind of players.

Exactly. I believe, that added NBA pool of players in NTs is crucial.
They give a lot of quality.
That is BIG difference between Euroleague and Eurobasket.

Recipe for Slovenia:
just add some really good coach (ouyes...i dream Obradovic )
and you have team, to be true contester for 1st place.
Eurobasket or Euroleague .