The Filipinos' Lack of Height is the MAin Reason Why We Cannot Excel in BAsketball

[sajubeads]

I just see the new SMC management as too greedy. I think SMC management during the 90's & the 2000's was significantly better than the current SMC management.

Honestly, my favorite team during the 90's was SMB with Samboy, Caidic & Calma. Right now, I hate SMB with so much passion

Its ths same rhing also in 90's...Come to think of it, SMB, 2 years removed from a Grandslam and with players like Don Ramon,NCAA stars and RP team members in1990 Samboy, Calma, Dignadice plus Teng, PUMAREN and 1991 MVP Ato Agustin able to get AllaN Caidic, the 1990 MVP in a trade exchanging him for SMBs first round pick 6-5 dont know the first name Valdez.... Iwan ko bakit di naging controversial yun at that time, mayne because ither teams are also competitive like the Puregoods team, the Shell, Alaska, Presto and Ginebra.

[zairex]

still of the opinion that the foundation of a strong national team is a strong national league. Unless we fix the league having a strong NT is difficult. Gilas 1 was the right solution & they should've played in the ABL or NBL instead

I agree. Our players will be notice more by international leagues if our national league is good and our nationa team performance is better. Gilas 1 to ABL and NBL is ok but the lure of playing for PBA and its fame is hard to resist.

[zairex]

Its ths same rhing also in 90's...Come to think of it, SMB, 2 years removed from a Grandslam and with players like Don Ramon,NCAA stars and RP team members in1990 Samboy, Calma, Dignadice plus Teng, PUMAREN and 1991 MVP Ato Agustin able to get AllaN Caidic, the 1990 MVP in a trade exchanging him for SMBs first round pick 6-5 dont know the first name Valdez.... Iwan ko bakit di naging controversial yun at that time, mayne because ither teams are also competitive like the Puregoods team, the Shell, Alaska, Presto and Ginebra.

I think Presto was fire selling of their players because they were disbanding in 1993 and was purchase by Sta Lucia. Sta Lucia could have a first five of Gerald Esplana, Allan Caidic, Vergel Meneses, Bong Hawkins and Zaldy Realubit if not for trading this players to different teams.I think it wasn't much controversial because all the team were able to get a player from Presto and people new that Presto was disbanding and Sta. Lucia was not going to retain much of the line up. If i remember only G. Esplana and Vergel Meneses was left of the team that were good players. Both were traded the same year.

I think Joseph Valdez was a rookie on the 1992 Presto team that had Allan Caidic still playing for them.

[JAMSKIE]

The reason why you or others have a difficulty seeing how this will happen is your thinking of things from a Philippine paradigm, one where a 100% of national team members play in the domestic league (primary the PBA), look at the composition of the top national teams not named the US, (most of members play in foreign eagues outside of the country), NZ, Australia and now we're seeing even Japan's best players play in leagues oversees.
So to answer the question how do you sustain a Gilas 1 model? 1st of all I'm suggesting a different age group, (college age), not pro! or college graduates. (the opportunity of development is already limited after graduating from college, (remember guys NCC players Caidic, Lim etc where developed when they were in college not after!). TAB is developing college players not players who graduated, why? That is the greatest impact for developing
People still don't get the paradigm that our over all eligible player talent is low.. That is the biggest reason for our results (not preperation), our output development is Low, no NBA players, No high div 1 rotation prospects or European league high prospects, mababa guys.
When we do well it's because of talent--Blatche plays!

The eco system would be the elite college age players train together as a team (long term training development team (18 to 21 yrs old), by 22 they would be so good that they will be pro foreign prospects, as such they would be playing in pro leagues abroad that run for 7 months, not 10 months.. When recalled for national team just like almost all elite national teams, it off season and they would just pick up things were they left off,
Countless national teams, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia etc use this model, why won't it be any different for us.

Basically you see those 3 guys in my avatar, they should be training together when available, when pro age (22) they should be of the level to get foreign league offers. Please not PBA only, if yun lang, we've failed! They haven't been developed to their potential. See the difference in paradigm!

Bro, why compare the situation in Phi basketball with that of other countries outside of Asia? I agree with the opinions of posters here, the only chance that Pinoy cagers would be able to play in the premier pro leagues of Australia, Europe or South America is if they are good enough to play as imports. In that case, do you think that an NBL-Australia team will get Junmar Fajardo as an import? Do you think that a pro team in Spain or France or Serbia will recruit a Rayray Parks to play for them as an import?

Come to think of it, how many Asian players from say Korea, China, Iran, Japan, Lebanon or Jordan are playing in the pro leagues of Europe, South America or Australia? Japan's Hachimura, watanabe, & Baba are in the NBA becoz they are good enough to make it to the world's No. 1 pro basketball league. But other than those 3 players mentioned are there any Japanese players who are playing in Europe, South America & Australia? Even a player as good as Hamed Hadadi has contented himself playing in Iran's domestic league & China's CBA after his stint in the NBA. Yi Jian Lian who also had stint in the NBA has contented himself playing in the CBA.

Let me ask you, how many Chinese, Korean, Iranian, Lebanese & Japanese players are playing in Europe, South America or Australia? The reality is, nearly all Asian players are playing in their own domestic leagues.

[Juan Lun]

The reason why you or others have a difficulty seeing how this will happen is your thinking of things from a Philippine paradigm, one where a 100% of national team members play in the domestic league (primary the PBA), look at the composition of the top national teams not named the US, (most of members play in foreign eagues outside of the country), NZ, Australia and now we're seeing even Japan's best players play in leagues oversees.
So to answer the question how do you sustain a Gilas 1 model? 1st of all I'm suggesting a different age group, (college age), not pro! or college graduates. (the opportunity of development is already limited after graduating from college, (remember guys NCC players Caidic, Lim etc where developed when they were in college not after!). TAB is developing college players not players who graduated, why? That is the greatest impact for developing
People still don't get the paradigm that our over all eligible player talent is low.. That is the biggest reason for our results (not preperation), our output development is Low, no NBA players, No high div 1 rotation prospects or European league high prospects, mababa guys.
When we do well it's because of talent--Blatche plays!

The eco system would be the elite college age players train together as a team (long term training development team (18 to 21 yrs old), by 22 they would be so good that they will be pro foreign prospects, as such they would be playing in pro leagues abroad that run for 7 months, not 10 months.. When recalled for national team just like almost all elite national teams, it off season and they would just pick up things were they left off,
Countless national teams, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia etc use this model, why won't it be any different for us.

Basically you see those 3 guys in my avatar, they should be training together when available, when pro age (22) they should be of the level to get foreign league offers. Please not PBA only, if yun lang, we've failed! They haven't been developed to their potential. See the difference in paradigm!

Even if we train our elite college players whenever they are available, that won't be enough, after training they'll just come back to lower level competition with their respective local teams, whatever they learned will be forgotten. Our future national team needs to be trained the right way at an early stage. I say let Ateneo recruit the best college players. let Tab mold them for 4 years so as they can get a good foundation, after UAAP, they can go to TNT with DICkels for continuation. At least that way we may produce hopefully at least a handful of "Superstar" players that play the right way.

[analyzed]

This model assumes that the players WILL SURELY be signed by foreign club teams which will enable them to play competitive pro ball. How sure are we that the Pinoy prospects we bring together under this model will be signed by pro leagues outside the PBA?

First if they fall short of the high target (foreign league) at least they will be better players. The goal is to improve individual development output. Which is beind and needs to get better, it really is the only way to get to a higher level (look what has brought Japan to another level)

I firmly believe our talent individual output needs players who are good enough to play in foreign leagues. As lamas said more Japanese players need to play oversees.
It is really the only way to level up.
Impacts of preperation etc will be limited, if Japan did not have their 3 NBA players and Div 1 rotation players, no amount of preparation will get them to the next level

So you're right absolutely that is the assumed requirement if a nation cannot produce players to get offers in foreign leagues, then yeah, wala talaga! We won't get significantly better results, just some moral victories here and there.

[analyzed]

Bro, why compare the situation in Phi basketball with that of other countries outside of Asia? I agree with the opinions of posters here, the only chance that Pinoy cagers would be able to play in the premier pro leagues of Australia, Europe or South America is if they are good enough to play as imports. In that case, do you think that an NBL-Australia team will get Junmar Fajardo as an import? Do you think that a pro team in Spain or France or Serbia will recruit a Rayray Parks to play for them as an import?

Come to think of it, how many Asian players from say Korea, China, Iran, Japan, Lebanon or Jordan are playing in the pro leagues of Europe, South America or Australia? Japan's Hachimura, watanabe, & Baba are in the NBA becoz they are good enough to make it to the world's No. 1 pro basketball league. But other than those 3 players mentioned are there any Japanese players who are playing in Europe, South America & Australia? Even a player as good as Hamed Hadadi has contented himself playing in Iran's domestic league & China's CBA after his stint in the NBA. Yi Jian Lian who also had stint in the NBA has contented himself playing in the CBA.

Let me ask you, how many Chinese, Korean, Iranian, Lebanese & Japanese players are playing in Europe, South America or Australia? The reality is, nearly all Asian players are playing in their own domestic leagues.

Yes, and if you noticed the biggest barometer of improvement is when national team players get to the level to play oversees, that is indeed the milestone one needs to level up, kung hindi, then simply we won't get significant improvement. It will just be inconsistent results.

[analyzed]

It's really simple, the title of the thread is Pinoys need to be taller to excel. I would correct that it should be Pinoy players need to level up and produce more talented players to be of the level of get offer overseas. IF NOT THEN RESULTS ARE EXPECTED WE WON'T BE AS GOOD AS NATIONS THAT HAVE THOSE LEVEL OF PLAYERS. Ganoon lang ka simple.

[Sikatrix]

still of the opinion that the foundation of a strong national team is a strong national league. Unless we fix the league having a strong NT is difficult. Gilas 1 was the right solution & they should've played in the ABL or NBL instead

Its not just the professional leagues, we have to fix our high school and collegiate programs first since we arent developing world class talent in the first place.

[ARMIR]

I don't think so bro. The death of the PBA would mean the rise of a new professional basketball league. Believe me, there will always be corporations/companies or parties who would want to be involved in professional basketball the moment PBA disbands. PBA's death would only mean the creation of a new pro league. I'm very sure of that. Basketball is too popular in the Philippines not to be taken advantage of as far as profit is concerned. While professional basketball is mainly about profit/money, the business side of basketball should not be abused or exploited. PBA has been exploiting & has abused the popularity of basketball in the country.

I'm hoping for pro league that would run for a significantly shorter season than the PBA & would be a National team friendly pro league. While PBA's death would hurt Phi basketball for a brief period of time, in the long run it would benefit Phi basketball.

If you think PBA is a little political,wait until there's a new league they will create their own rules,no.1 no FilAms,local born Pinoys,no imports,etc.etc.It will be MPBL 2.0 and I'm willing to bet that politicians will use the popularity of that league for their own populist agenda.

[paulrenzo]

It's really simple, the title of the thread is Pinoys need to be taller to excel. I would correct that it should be Pinoy players need to level up and produce more talented players to be of the level of get offer overseas. IF NOT THEN RESULTS ARE EXPECTED WE WON'T BE AS GOOD AS NATIONS THAT HAVE THOSE LEVEL OF PLAYERS. Ganoon lang ka simple.

My 2 cents on this: we actually had decent height in the last u19 Worlds, but still didn't perform as well as we thought. I know there are a lot of factors behind this, but I think we can safely say that solving our height problems will not improve our chances to win as much as we thought.

[C2Hamm]

Even if we train our elite college players whenever they are available, that won't be enough, after training they'll just come back to lower level competition with their respective local teams, whatever they learned will be forgotten. Our future national team needs to be trained the right way at an early stage. I say let Ateneo recruit the best college players. let Tab mold them for 4 years so as they can get a good foundation, after UAAP, they can go to TNT with DICkels for continuation. At least that way we may produce hopefully at least a handful of "Superstar" players that play the right way.

Then we dont have a national program. Just get players to MVP group. If he goes what do we do?
Plus, are we 100% sure we cant train anyone to become atleast usable in other leagues? If we fail first couple of years, are you saying we cant improve and the whole thung is a failure?

Thing is, if we do any changes, we should have a reasonable timeframe and goals to it. I think any big change will only be felt probably 5 to 10 years from when it starts. We may see some good signs along the way but we are talking about continuity and sustainability. How are we going to assess that if we only ride the change for a couple of years?

[analyzed]

Then we dont have a national program. Just get players to MVP group. If he goes what do we do?
Plus, are we 100% sure we cant train anyone to become atleast usable in other leagues? If we fail first couple of years, are you saying we cant improve and the whole thung is a failure?

Thing is, if we do any changes, we should have a reasonable timeframe and goals to it. I think any big change will only be felt probably 5 to 10 years from when it starts. We may see some good signs along the way but we are talking about continuity and sustainability. How are we going to assess that if we only ride the change for a couple of years?

Totally agree with this, it's a long tern real national team development program (not for 22 year olds whose best years to develop are behind)

Yes it will take time, the thing is we have to put things (Programs) to be moving in the right direction

[mangangalakal]

Then we dont have a national program. Just get players to MVP group. If he goes what do we do?
Plus, are we 100% sure we cant train anyone to become atleast usable in other leagues? If we fail first couple of years, are you saying we cant improve and the whole thung is a failure?

Thing is, if we do any changes, we should have a reasonable timeframe and goals to it. I think any big change will only be felt probably 5 to 10 years from when it starts. We may see some good signs along the way but we are talking about continuity and sustainability. How are we going to assess that if we only ride the change for a couple of years?

5 to 10 years? The Japanese Football Association has a 100-year plan. lol

[mangangalakal]

First if they fall short of the high target (foreign league) at least they will be better players. The goal is to improve individual development output. Which is beind and needs to get better, it really is the only way to get to a higher level (look what has brought Japan to another level)

I firmly believe our talent individual output needs players who are good enough to play in foreign leagues. As lamas said more Japanese players need to play oversees.
It is really the only way to level up.
Impacts of preperation etc will be limited, if Japan did not have their 3 NBA players and Div 1 rotation players, no amount of preparation will get them to the next level

So you're right absolutely that is the assumed requirement if a nation cannot produce players to get offers in foreign leagues, then yeah, wala talaga! We won't get significantly better results, just some moral victories here and there.

I get the point, my concern is that if our players fail to get signed overseas, where should they play to keep their edge? The only solutions I can think of are strong domestic league, ABL, NBL, CBA or stick to overseas and scrape the Euro domestic leagues... if we can do it in football (Daisuke Sato in Romania, other Azkals in Malaysia, Thailand), why not in basketball, no? Too bad KBL does not have quotas for Asian imports..