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Thread: The Filipinos' Lack of Height is the MAin Reason Why We Cannot Excel in BAsketball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikatrix View Post
    100% certain that any sudden death of the PBA would be very very bad for Philippine basketball.
    I don't think so bro. The death of the PBA would mean the rise of a new professional basketball league. Believe me, there will always be corporations/companies or parties who would want to be involved in professional basketball the moment PBA disbands. PBA's death would only mean the creation of a new pro league. I'm very sure of that. Basketball is too popular in the Philippines not to be taken advantage of as far as profit is concerned. While professional basketball is mainly about profit/money, the business side of basketball should not be abused or exploited. PBA has been exploiting & has abused the popularity of basketball in the country.

    I'm hoping for pro league that would run for a significantly shorter season than the PBA & would be a National team friendly pro league. While PBA's death would hurt Phi basketball for a brief period of time, in the long run it would benefit Phi basketball.
    Last edited by JAMSKIE; 11-04-2019 at 05:58 AM.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    No one is saying preperation for tournaments and time together with the national team is not a key important component for success, but in all honesty it is useless and won't be a sustainable solution not unless you fix the economic system of basketball in the country.
    You sight the issue of a prolonged (10 month) PBA season, why is that happening? Answer - it is because of the flawed eco system. It will always lead to that root of the problem, from high school players being withheld by schools to practice for youth teams all the way to pros being made available to prep, all points to the eco system as the flaw and root problem

    But I agree an interim (won't solve root issue) realistic step solution is non other than a NCC, Gilas 1, model, for greater impact it should focus on best high school graduates not college (Gilas 1). Yes absolutely hit and disrupt the college eco system if you have to. (college players as owned assets of schools is totally flawed)
    Wasn't that during the 2019 FIBA World Cup, you've been harping that other teams also didn't really have long period of preparation?

    While its true that most teams had only around 2 months or 1 & 1/2 month of preparation prior to the World Cup, the preparation that these teams had was accumulative, as I've pointed out in my previous post. Meaning these teams have been practicing/training/playing international basketball during the off-season of their respective pro leagues & they do it in a regular basis. Hence, if for instance Serbia has been doing that for 6 years, then Serbia had around 12 months or 1 year of solid preparation prior to the World Cup.

    Obviously, Gilas' preparation paled in comparison to that of other countries. The difference was glaring in so far as preparation is concerned.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Agree let them operate independently but stay a distance away from any national team involvement, they have seperate and conflicting mandates
    May I asked a question, how will you sustain realistically a national team that its player will not be involve with the PBA. How long will they be in service of the National Team. How can you keep them competitive? Do they have enough international tournaments to play for 240 days a year.

    I asked this because we had that with Gilas 1 and at the end we need PBA players to back them up and they all end up playing for PBA at the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    I don't think so bro. The death of the PBA would mean the rise of a new professional basketball league. Believe me, there will always be corporations/companies or parties who would want to be involved in professional basketball the moment PBA disbands. PBA's death would only mean the creation of a new pro league. I'm very sure of that. Basketball is too popular in the Philippines not to be taken advantage of as far as profit is concerned. While professional basketball is mainly about profit/money, the business side of basketball should not be abused or exploited. PBA has been exploiting & has abused the popularity of basketball in the country.

    I'm hoping for pro league that would run for a significantly shorter season than the PBA & would be a National team friendly pro league. While PBA's death would hurt Phi basketball for a brief period of time, in the long run it would benefit Phi basketball.
    I wish that will happen. But at the end of the day, we have only few billionaires in the country that will not have a problem losing 420K per player per month for basketball and marketing. I mean if PBA dies do you think MVP and SMC will not be involve in the newly created league. How do we know if SM, Ayala, Jollibee, Villars, etc.. will not act the same when they have a league of their own. I mean they all act the same when in comes to politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    I wish that will happen. But at the end of the day, we have only few billionaires in the country that will not have a problem losing 420K per player per month for basketball and marketing. I mean if PBA dies do you think MVP and SMC will not be involve in the newly created league. How do we know if SM, Ayala, Jollibee, Villars, etc.. will not act the same when they have a league of their own. I mean they all act the same when in comes to politics.
    I just see the new SMC management as too greedy. I think SMC management during the 90's & the 2000's was significantly better than the current SMC management.

    Honestly, my favorite team during the 90's was SMB with Samboy, Caidic & Calma. Right now, I hate SMB with so much passion
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by zairex View Post
    May I asked a question, how will you sustain realistically a national team that its player will not be involve with the PBA. How long will they be in service of the National Team. How can you keep them competitive? Do they have enough international tournaments to play for 240 days a year.

    I asked this because we had that with Gilas 1 and at the end we need PBA players to back them up and they all end up playing for PBA at the end.
    That is the biggest challenge SBP will face once it revives the Gilas-1 program. The lure of the PBA will always be an issue among our National team players.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    The reason why you or others have a difficulty seeing how this will happen is your thinking of things from a Philippine paradigm, one where a 100% of national team members play in the domestic league (primary the PBA), look at the composition of the top national teams not named the US, (most of members play in foreign eagues outside of the country), NZ, Australia and now we're seeing even Japan's best players play in leagues oversees.
    So to answer the question how do you sustain a Gilas 1 model? 1st of all I'm suggesting a different age group, (college age), not pro! or college graduates. (the opportunity of development is already limited after graduating from college, (remember guys NCC players Caidic, Lim etc where developed when they were in college not after!). TAB is developing college players not players who graduated, why? That is the greatest impact for developing
    People still don't get the paradigm that our over all eligible player talent is low.. That is the biggest reason for our results (not preperation), our output development is Low, no NBA players, No high div 1 rotation prospects or European league high prospects, mababa guys.
    When we do well it's because of talent--Blatche plays!

    The eco system would be the elite college age players train together as a team (long term training development team (18 to 21 yrs old), by 22 they would be so good that they will be pro foreign prospects, as such they would be playing in pro leagues abroad that run for 7 months, not 10 months.. When recalled for national team just like almost all elite national teams, it off season and they would just pick up things were they left off,
    Countless national teams, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia etc use this model, why won't it be any different for us.

    Basically you see those 3 guys in my avatar, they should be training together when available, when pro age (22) they should be of the level to get foreign league offers. Please not PBA only, if yun lang, we've failed! They haven't been developed to their potential. See the difference in paradigm!
    Last edited by analyzed; 11-04-2019 at 06:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    The reason why you or others have a difficulty seeing how this will happen is your thinking of things from a Philippine paradigm, one where a 100% of national team members play in the domestic league (primary the PBA), look at the composition of the top national teams not named the US, (most of members play in foreign eagues outside of the country), NZ, Australia and now we're seeing even Japan's best players play in leagues oversees.
    So to answer the question how do you sustain a Gilas 1 model? 1st of all I'm suggesting a different age group, (college age), not pro! or college graduates. (the opportunity of development is already limited after graduating from college, (remember guys NCC players Caidic, Lim etc where developed when they were in college not after!). TAB is developing college players not players who graduated, why? That is the greatest impact for developing
    People still don't get the paradigm that our over all eligible player talent is low.. That is the biggest reason for our results (not preperation), our output development is Low, no NBA players, No high div 1 rotation prospects or European league high prospects, mababa guys.
    When we do well it's because of talent--Blatche plays!

    The eco system would be the elite college age players train together as a team (long term training development team (18 to 21 yrs old), by 22 they would be so good that they will be pro foreign prospects, as such they would be playing in pro leagues abroad that run for 7 months, not 10 months.. When recalled for national team just like almost all elite national teams, it off season and they would just pick up things were they left off,
    Countless national teams, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia etc use this model, why won't it be any different for us.

    Basically you see those 3 guys in my avatar, they should be training together when available, when pro age (22) they should be of the level to get foreign league offers. Please not PBA only, if yun lang, we've failed! They haven't been developed to their potential. See the difference in paradigm!
    This model assumes that the players WILL SURELY be signed by foreign club teams which will enable them to play competitive pro ball. How sure are we that the Pinoy prospects we bring together under this model will be signed by pro leagues outside the PBA?
    "Never doubt that a small group of concerned citizens can change the world. Indeed it's the only thing that ever has..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    The reason why you or others have a difficulty seeing how this will happen is your thinking of things from a Philippine paradigm, one where a 100% of national team members play in the domestic league (primary the PBA), look at the composition of the top national teams named the US, (most of members play in foreign leagues outside of the country), NZ, Australia and now we're seeing even Japan's best players play in leagues oversees.
    So to answer the question how do you sustain a Gilas 1 model? 1st of all I'm suggesting a different age group, (college age), not pro! or college graduates. (the opportunity of development is already limited after graduating from college, (remember guys NCC players Caidic, Lim etc where developed when they were in college not after!). TAB is developing college players not players who graduated, why? That is the greatest impact for developing
    People still don't get the paradigm that our over eligible player talent is low.. That is the biggest reason for our results (not preperation), our output development is Low, no NBA players, No high div 1 rotation prospects or European league high prospects, maba guys.
    When we do well it's because of talent--Blatche plays!

    The eco system would be the elite college age players train together as a team (long term training development team (18 to 21 yrs old), by 22 they would be so good that they will be pro foreign prospects, as such they would be playing in pro leagues abroad that run for 7 months, not 10 months.. When recalled for national team just like almost all elite national teams, it off season and they would just pick up things were they left off,
    Countless national teams, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia etc use this model, why won't it be any different for us.
    I respectfully disagree on some of your assessments. Firstly, of course you will look at this on a Philippine prospective, because its a factor and it will start from their.

    Second, I would love to see Pinoys playing in different leagues around the world but this will have so much challenges. For example, Thirdy Ravena, why would they hire him as a import for European teams or even a NBA D league. There is a cognitive bias of coaches around the world that a American Baller is way better than an Asian baller, even Europeans. With all of those ballers why pick a Pinoy who is undersized in his position.

    I mean look at Kai Sotto, he is our unicorn but not all are high on him. He has a long way in being the next Yao Ming of Asia Baller.

    Thirdly, Economics. Yao Ming was the only Asian to break out in the NBA. With his success, China get a lot of exposure with NBA. But the main thing was that the market of China is the next frontier of NBA and its players. That why NBA supports China and even India who has a NBA Academy set up their. Even with all of this, no Chinese as ever been exported to other international leagues and NBA and had an impact. While here in the Philippines we had 3 NBA stores and all of them are closed now, not even two years in operations. That's why NBA thou popular here, is not really profitable.

    The fastest way we will get exposure with NBA or any respectable international leagues if a Pinoy owns majority of a team and asked for tune up games.

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    still of the opinion that the foundation of a strong national team is a strong national league. Unless we fix the league having a strong NT is difficult. Gilas 1 was the right solution & they should've played in the ABL or NBL instead
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    I just see the new SMC management as too greedy. I think SMC management during the 90's & the 2000's was significantly better than the current SMC management.

    Honestly, my favorite team during the 90's was SMB with Samboy, Caidic & Calma. Right now, I hate SMB with so much passion
    Its ths same rhing also in 90's...Come to think of it, SMB, 2 years removed from a Grandslam and with players like Don Ramon,NCAA stars and RP team members in1990 Samboy, Calma, Dignadice plus Teng, PUMAREN and 1991 MVP Ato Agustin able to get AllaN Caidic, the 1990 MVP in a trade exchanging him for SMBs first round pick 6-5 dont know the first name Valdez.... Iwan ko bakit di naging controversial yun at that time, mayne because ither teams are also competitive like the Puregoods team, the Shell, Alaska, Presto and Ginebra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mangangalakal View Post
    still of the opinion that the foundation of a strong national team is a strong national league. Unless we fix the league having a strong NT is difficult. Gilas 1 was the right solution & they should've played in the ABL or NBL instead
    I agree. Our players will be notice more by international leagues if our national league is good and our nationa team performance is better. Gilas 1 to ABL and NBL is ok but the lure of playing for PBA and its fame is hard to resist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sajubeads View Post
    Its ths same rhing also in 90's...Come to think of it, SMB, 2 years removed from a Grandslam and with players like Don Ramon,NCAA stars and RP team members in1990 Samboy, Calma, Dignadice plus Teng, PUMAREN and 1991 MVP Ato Agustin able to get AllaN Caidic, the 1990 MVP in a trade exchanging him for SMBs first round pick 6-5 dont know the first name Valdez.... Iwan ko bakit di naging controversial yun at that time, mayne because ither teams are also competitive like the Puregoods team, the Shell, Alaska, Presto and Ginebra.
    I think Presto was fire selling of their players because they were disbanding in 1993 and was purchase by Sta Lucia. Sta Lucia could have a first five of Gerald Esplana, Allan Caidic, Vergel Meneses, Bong Hawkins and Zaldy Realubit if not for trading this players to different teams.I think it wasn't much controversial because all the team were able to get a player from Presto and people new that Presto was disbanding and Sta. Lucia was not going to retain much of the line up. If i remember only G. Esplana and Vergel Meneses was left of the team that were good players. Both were traded the same year.

    I think Joseph Valdez was a rookie on the 1992 Presto team that had Allan Caidic still playing for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    The reason why you or others have a difficulty seeing how this will happen is your thinking of things from a Philippine paradigm, one where a 100% of national team members play in the domestic league (primary the PBA), look at the composition of the top national teams not named the US, (most of members play in foreign eagues outside of the country), NZ, Australia and now we're seeing even Japan's best players play in leagues oversees.
    So to answer the question how do you sustain a Gilas 1 model? 1st of all I'm suggesting a different age group, (college age), not pro! or college graduates. (the opportunity of development is already limited after graduating from college, (remember guys NCC players Caidic, Lim etc where developed when they were in college not after!). TAB is developing college players not players who graduated, why? That is the greatest impact for developing
    People still don't get the paradigm that our over all eligible player talent is low.. That is the biggest reason for our results (not preperation), our output development is Low, no NBA players, No high div 1 rotation prospects or European league high prospects, mababa guys.
    When we do well it's because of talent--Blatche plays!

    The eco system would be the elite college age players train together as a team (long term training development team (18 to 21 yrs old), by 22 they would be so good that they will be pro foreign prospects, as such they would be playing in pro leagues abroad that run for 7 months, not 10 months.. When recalled for national team just like almost all elite national teams, it off season and they would just pick up things were they left off,
    Countless national teams, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia etc use this model, why won't it be any different for us.

    Basically you see those 3 guys in my avatar, they should be training together when available, when pro age (22) they should be of the level to get foreign league offers. Please not PBA only, if yun lang, we've failed! They haven't been developed to their potential. See the difference in paradigm!
    Bro, why compare the situation in Phi basketball with that of other countries outside of Asia? I agree with the opinions of posters here, the only chance that Pinoy cagers would be able to play in the premier pro leagues of Australia, Europe or South America is if they are good enough to play as imports. In that case, do you think that an NBL-Australia team will get Junmar Fajardo as an import? Do you think that a pro team in Spain or France or Serbia will recruit a Rayray Parks to play for them as an import?

    Come to think of it, how many Asian players from say Korea, China, Iran, Japan, Lebanon or Jordan are playing in the pro leagues of Europe, South America or Australia? Japan's Hachimura, watanabe, & Baba are in the NBA becoz they are good enough to make it to the world's No. 1 pro basketball league. But other than those 3 players mentioned are there any Japanese players who are playing in Europe, South America & Australia? Even a player as good as Hamed Hadadi has contented himself playing in Iran's domestic league & China's CBA after his stint in the NBA. Yi Jian Lian who also had stint in the NBA has contented himself playing in the CBA.

    Let me ask you, how many Chinese, Korean, Iranian, Lebanese & Japanese players are playing in Europe, South America or Australia? The reality is, nearly all Asian players are playing in their own domestic leagues.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    The reason why you or others have a difficulty seeing how this will happen is your thinking of things from a Philippine paradigm, one where a 100% of national team members play in the domestic league (primary the PBA), look at the composition of the top national teams not named the US, (most of members play in foreign eagues outside of the country), NZ, Australia and now we're seeing even Japan's best players play in leagues oversees.
    So to answer the question how do you sustain a Gilas 1 model? 1st of all I'm suggesting a different age group, (college age), not pro! or college graduates. (the opportunity of development is already limited after graduating from college, (remember guys NCC players Caidic, Lim etc where developed when they were in college not after!). TAB is developing college players not players who graduated, why? That is the greatest impact for developing
    People still don't get the paradigm that our over all eligible player talent is low.. That is the biggest reason for our results (not preperation), our output development is Low, no NBA players, No high div 1 rotation prospects or European league high prospects, mababa guys.
    When we do well it's because of talent--Blatche plays!

    The eco system would be the elite college age players train together as a team (long term training development team (18 to 21 yrs old), by 22 they would be so good that they will be pro foreign prospects, as such they would be playing in pro leagues abroad that run for 7 months, not 10 months.. When recalled for national team just like almost all elite national teams, it off season and they would just pick up things were they left off,
    Countless national teams, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia etc use this model, why won't it be any different for us.

    Basically you see those 3 guys in my avatar, they should be training together when available, when pro age (22) they should be of the level to get foreign league offers. Please not PBA only, if yun lang, we've failed! They haven't been developed to their potential. See the difference in paradigm!

    Even if we train our elite college players whenever they are available, that won't be enough, after training they'll just come back to lower level competition with their respective local teams, whatever they learned will be forgotten. Our future national team needs to be trained the right way at an early stage. I say let Ateneo recruit the best college players. let Tab mold them for 4 years so as they can get a good foundation, after UAAP, they can go to TNT with DICkels for continuation. At least that way we may produce hopefully at least a handful of "Superstar" players that play the right way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mangangalakal View Post
    This model assumes that the players WILL SURELY be signed by foreign club teams which will enable them to play competitive pro ball. How sure are we that the Pinoy prospects we bring together under this model will be signed by pro leagues outside the PBA?
    First if they fall short of the high target (foreign league) at least they will be better players. The goal is to improve individual development output. Which is beind and needs to get better, it really is the only way to get to a higher level (look what has brought Japan to another level)

    I firmly believe our talent individual output needs players who are good enough to play in foreign leagues. As lamas said more Japanese players need to play oversees.
    It is really the only way to level up.
    Impacts of preperation etc will be limited, if Japan did not have their 3 NBA players and Div 1 rotation players, no amount of preparation will get them to the next level

    So you're right absolutely that is the assumed requirement if a nation cannot produce players to get offers in foreign leagues, then yeah, wala talaga! We won't get significantly better results, just some moral victories here and there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Bro, why compare the situation in Phi basketball with that of other countries outside of Asia? I agree with the opinions of posters here, the only chance that Pinoy cagers would be able to play in the premier pro leagues of Australia, Europe or South America is if they are good enough to play as imports. In that case, do you think that an NBL-Australia team will get Junmar Fajardo as an import? Do you think that a pro team in Spain or France or Serbia will recruit a Rayray Parks to play for them as an import?

    Come to think of it, how many Asian players from say Korea, China, Iran, Japan, Lebanon or Jordan are playing in the pro leagues of Europe, South America or Australia? Japan's Hachimura, watanabe, & Baba are in the NBA becoz they are good enough to make it to the world's No. 1 pro basketball league. But other than those 3 players mentioned are there any Japanese players who are playing in Europe, South America & Australia? Even a player as good as Hamed Hadadi has contented himself playing in Iran's domestic league & China's CBA after his stint in the NBA. Yi Jian Lian who also had stint in the NBA has contented himself playing in the CBA.

    Let me ask you, how many Chinese, Korean, Iranian, Lebanese & Japanese players are playing in Europe, South America or Australia? The reality is, nearly all Asian players are playing in their own domestic leagues.
    Yes, and if you noticed the biggest barometer of improvement is when national team players get to the level to play oversees, that is indeed the milestone one needs to level up, kung hindi, then simply we won't get significant improvement. It will just be inconsistent results.
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    It's really simple, the title of the thread is Pinoys need to be taller to excel. I would correct that it should be Pinoy players need to level up and produce more talented players to be of the level of get offer overseas. IF NOT THEN RESULTS ARE EXPECTED WE WON'T BE AS GOOD AS NATIONS THAT HAVE THOSE LEVEL OF PLAYERS. Ganoon lang ka simple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangangalakal View Post
    still of the opinion that the foundation of a strong national team is a strong national league. Unless we fix the league having a strong NT is difficult. Gilas 1 was the right solution & they should've played in the ABL or NBL instead
    Its not just the professional leagues, we have to fix our high school and collegiate programs first since we arent developing world class talent in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    I don't think so bro. The death of the PBA would mean the rise of a new professional basketball league. Believe me, there will always be corporations/companies or parties who would want to be involved in professional basketball the moment PBA disbands. PBA's death would only mean the creation of a new pro league. I'm very sure of that. Basketball is too popular in the Philippines not to be taken advantage of as far as profit is concerned. While professional basketball is mainly about profit/money, the business side of basketball should not be abused or exploited. PBA has been exploiting & has abused the popularity of basketball in the country.

    I'm hoping for pro league that would run for a significantly shorter season than the PBA & would be a National team friendly pro league. While PBA's death would hurt Phi basketball for a brief period of time, in the long run it would benefit Phi basketball.


    If you think PBA is a little political,wait until there's a new league they will create their own rules,no.1 no FilAms,local born Pinoys,no imports,etc.etc.It will be MPBL 2.0 and I'm willing to bet that politicians will use the popularity of that league for their own populist agenda.

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