Isiah and the Knicks

[mvblair]

i bet no one even trains anymore before Knicks games. Other NBA players call it a day-off when a game vs Knicks must happen, because there is nothing to try.

Check out the article I posted above. They haven't practiced in a month. Pitiful.

[Neozyrus]

At least they have tok the first step now. New management, new coach, and hopefully a brand new package of players signed with a plan.

Personally i would just keep 4/5 players of the actual roster, and then look for some good trades or, if the want a huge rebuilding, they could even buy the contracts of some players and just try to sign some of the great players that are gonna be in the market of free agents this summer.

[rikhardur]

Time for rebuilding now, I think the Knicks were just waiting for the regular season to end and sack him. They should've done it way before imo.

[Test]

Most expencive basketball club in history, also the most fuck*ed up club at the same time. Removing Isiah is only one first big step to revolution. Now another surgery need to be done - Remove cancer Marbury and please sent him to the PBA or whatever.. He ruined every team - this is the greatest example for kids - never be like marbury. This is proove that not only great basketball skills will make you valuable player.

But I have a sense that nothing will change until managers and GM's will die or retire. i bet no one even trains anymore before Knicks games. Other NBA players call it a day-off when a game vs Knicks must happen, because there is nothing to try.

[mvblair]

Isiah Thomas Fired as Coach -- April 18, 2008, By BRIAN MAHONEY, AP Basketball Writer

Isiah Thomas couldn’t win as coach with the players he assembled as president.

Now, he’s lost both jobs.

Thomas was fired as the New York Knicks coach Friday after a season of listless and dreadful basketball, a tawdry lawsuit and unending chants from fans demanding his dismissal.

Thomas lost a franchise record-tying 59 games this season, and along the way seemed to lose the support of his players, who didn’t always play hard for him the way they did last season...

Click on the above article for a full recap of the Knickerbocker's dreadful season.

My favorite NBA writer wrote this yesterday (it's worth reading the whole article):

Thomas Will Leave as More than a Joke -- Adrian Worjankowski, Yahoo! Sports, April 17, 2008

Isiah Thomas never did stop the relentless mythology of himself as the street fighter out of Chicago’s Westside. Through every indignity, he insisted that he was fighting for his job, his legacy, for a ticker-tape parade he still promised until the bitter end. Somewhere between delusion and delirium, the architect of a crumbled regime had never sounded so detached of reality.

...his way of saying that he made it out of New York alive, false bravado until he’s out the door. The final con job of Thomas’ disastrous run as Knicks president and coach has been that he wants to keep his job. Thomas is still getting the remainder of his $24 million contract extension. He’s done nothing to earn his pay but everything to protect future payments. The Knicks are 23-58 on the season now. Larry Brown will be rooting hard Wednesday night that Isiah doesn’t end up with one more victory than he did as Knicks coach two years ago.

Until Sunday, when Walsh happened to be in the gym, the Knicks hadn’t had a legitimate practice in a month. Shootarounds seldom lasted more than 15 or 20 minutes on gameday mornings. So much opportunity to develop the Knicks young players went to waste.

To the bitter end, Thomas was still selling. For a time, Dolan was the last man in New York buying it. Finally, Thomas lost him, too. These days, Thomas sounds like an old politician on the house floor, talking to an empty chamber just so his words will be recorded for the history books.

...Had they seen Isiah fighting, backing his empty words with deeds, maybe it would’ve been a little different. Yet it wasn’t 10 games into the season when his players privately told people that they could see his heart wasn’t in it, that he was barely trying to coach them. Everyone could see it. Most nights, he never climbed to his feet. He never coached. Lately, opposing scouts came to the Garden and declared the Knicks the hardest team in the league with which to file reports back to their teams.

“They haven’t run any plays in over a month,” one NBA scout said.

Said another scout, “In all of my years, I’ve never seen anything like it. If (Thomas) is trying to get fired, he’s doing a good job of it.”

....

I guess this is no surprise. Honestly, nobody is surprised that Isiah was fired. But look back at this stuff. He's bad. He's terrible. Scouts say he hasn't had plays. Players say he hasn't had practices. Everybody says he hasn't coached. Awful. Pitiful.

THE NBA where hope never dies

[mvblair]

Am I obsessing?

Marbury Back in Starting Line-Up -- November 20, 2007, Brian Mahoney, AP

GREENBURGH, N.Y. (AP) -- Stephon Marbury was set to rejoin the New York Knicks' starting lineup Tuesday night, a week after he responded to a demotion by leaving the team for one game.

Marbury said he was told by coach Isiah Thomas at the beginning of the morning shootaround that he would start against the Golden State Warriors. Marbury was a reserve for three games, and the Knicks lost all of them to extend their losing streak to six....

Thomas said he expects Marbury to remain the starter, though Marbury said he wasn't told his return was permanent. But the Knicks desperately need some form of stability, having fallen to 2-7 and last in the Atlantic Division....

"In order to have progress and to move forward, sometimes you have to have some uncomfortableness between player and coach," Thomas said. "To get the most out of the player sometimes it's got to be a little bit uncomfortable, but that's the way it goes in sports. You've got to move on and you've got to get better.

"It's not going to always be a smooth, nice path of friendly relationships. Sometimes you're going to have some situations where it's testy, but for the most part you've got to get the player and you've got to get the team to improve and that's our goal."

....

Isiah is such a great motivator.

[mvblair]

Kenny Smith is a lousy writer that I can only provide snippets of what he wrote. Click the link for the whole article.

Marbury, Thomas Share the Blame -- November 19, 2007, by Kenny Smith, Yahoo! Sports

....There really isn't a circumstance where you can leave your team because of personal discontent. If you do, you lose the one thing that your teammates hold sacred – trust.

If your point is to prove that you deserve more playing time – or to prove you don't deserve to be demoted – you can do that only by playing hard and keeping your mouth shut....

So where does this leave the Knicks? In a very precarious position....

Why would you [Isiah Thomas take Marbury out the lineup after five games when it's apparent to most that Mardy Collins and Nate Robinson are nowhere close to his talent level? Why would you take him out the lineup when Zach Randolph has missed games because of family matters? ....

[mvblair]

I was not there, but Marbury must have started it all

Let's be fair and let Isiah and Marbury share the blame!

For some bizarre, inexplicable reason, Marbury came back to the team in Los Angeles and scored 13 points (on 33% shooting) in 33 minutes! Wow! Isiah Thomas is kissing him more than Magic Johnson!

Not Everyone on Knicks Is Happy with Marbury's Rerturn -- November 15, 2007, by John Ludden, Yahoo! Sports

......less than 24 hours earlier, when Isiah Thomas dispatched Jamal Crawford to find out how the players would react if and when Marbury rejoined the team, all of them voted against allowing him to play. Thomas, according to one person who spoke with Crawford, had pledged to hold out Marbury if even a single Knick didn’t want him on the court.

So how did Thomas react to the team’s unanimous vote?

He sat Marbury until late in the first quarter then played him nearly 34 of the game’s remaining 39 minutes.

The Knicks lost, of course......

......

“I’ve played with people I don’t like. I’ve won with people I don’t like,” Thomas said. “We’re a professional basketball team. My job is to try and win the basketball game.

“However I feel about a person, that doesn’t matter. We’re tying to win. Whatever happened in the past is in the past.”

That’s doubtful. Marbury said after the game that he’s “cool” and can “walk with my head up” and that “going forward, I’m fine.” problem is that many of his teammates aren’t fine. They’re fed up with him.

......


The Knicks let out a collective sigh of relief when told Marbury had left. For one night, at least, they didn’t have to stomach his selfishness.

......

Thomas said Marbury needs to provide leadership and defense to win back his starting job, and that should be good for a few more laughs. Leadership? From the guy who deserted his team? Even if Marbury left with Thomas’ permission, as Marbury claims, he still left.

......

....even Marbury’s harshest critics in the locker room don’t think he deserves full blame for the team’s 2-5 start. Too many players have played too poorly for it to be the fault of one.

.....the circus has stayed too long in New York, even if the rest of the NBA continues to find it entertaining.

.......

So, for now, the Knicks’ runaway train continues to careen off the tracks with Marbury and Thomas sharing the engineer’s chair. Everybody seems to be enjoying the ride except those actually on board.

[LuDux]

Marbury Fined $180,000 for Missing Game -- November 14, 2007,

That's nothing. That's like sexually harassing 1/65th of Anucha Browne Sanders

[rikhardur]

I was not there, but Marbury must have started it all

[mvblair]

Were Thomas and Marbury fist-fighting on the plane!? This is getting better than "Desperate Housewives!"

Marbury Fined $180,000 for Missing Game -- November 14, 2007, by Brian Mahoney, AP

NEW YORK (AP) -- The New York Knicks fined Stephon Marbury more than $180,000 for skipping Tuesday night's game at Phoenix, the latest clash between the team's star point guard and coach Isiah Thomas.

The Knicks sent Marbury a letter informing him of the fine....

...Marbury played poorly down the stretch in New York's 75-72 loss to Miami on Sunday, and the Daily News reported Tuesday the Knicks were trying to reduce Marbury's role or get rid of him entirely.

That created tensions between Marbury and Thomas -- neighbors in Westchester County who share the same agent. The two reportedly even fought on the plane to Phoenix, which the Knicks denied.

"There is no truth to that whatsoever," said Knicks spokesman Jonathan Supranowitz, who was on the flight.

[mvblair]

Sean Deveany blames Isiah:

Thomas is All Too Willing to Sacrifice Marbury -- November 14, 2007, by Sean Deveany, Sports Illustrated

Stephon Marbury, the player, has been vastly overrated for years now, the kind of me-first point guard that frustrates coaches, frustrates teammates and frustrates those who prefer to watch basketball rather than Globetrotter-esque, one-on-one demonstrations.

Stephon Marbury, the man, isn't very impressive, either, having pouted his way out of Minnesota because Kevin Garnett got too much attention, declaring himself the "best point guard in the NBA", and getting into locker-room fights with teammates. The revelation that Marbury, who is married, had sex with a Knicks intern in the back seat of his truck outside a strip club in 2005 was one of the creepier points of the Anucha Browne Sanders case this summer.

Given that history, it's easy to see why Marbury has been dumped by three franchises in 11 years, and could be on the brink of being dumped by yet another. But if you want to point a finger here, don't do it at Marbury. Do it at someone even less admirable -- Knicks coach Isiah Thomas.

Marbury went AWOL Tuesday after hearing that Thomas planned to move him to the bench for a game in Phoenix that night. Which raises a question: What, exactly, did Marbury do to deserve this?

...

It was a difficult summer for both Marbury and Thomas. Then the season got rolling and, despite the late-game meltdown against the Heat, Marbury was not playing terribly. All the sudden, after five games, Thomas decides that he is going to replace Marbury? Hmm. Why? Do the Knicks have some All-Star-in-waiting point guard on the bench? Who is it that Thomas simply must put in the starting lineup? Tell us, please

...

In the end, this Marbury mess is not so much about Marbury as it is about Thomas. The guy is desperate. You don't just trash your starting lineup after five games. But Thomas' job is very much in peril, and it's looking more and more like the Knicks will be a 35-win team no matter how Thomas juggles the pieces.

...


In the meantime, Thomas has again sold out someone else for his own benefit. That's pretty much been his M.O. throughout his entire post-playing life. The Marbury mess has created a sideshow big enough to hide the fact that the team is 2-4 and will probably be 2-7 when it gets back from its Western road trip. But now, Thomas can sell team honcho James Dolan (who is one shockingly gullible fellow) on the notion that the Knicks will get it together once they can find a suitable trade or buyout for Marbury. Thomas can buy himself some time, possibly to find some other gullible employer and make his escape from New York look like it was his choice.

If Thomas can rescue some of his dignity at the expense of Marbury, one of his most loyal followers, he'll most certainly do so.

[mvblair]

Stephon Marbury skipped practice with the Knicks, who are on a brief West Coast trip. Marbury then jetted back to New York, "texting" reporters and telling them that he was given permission. The Knicks have listed Stephon Marbury as "AWOL" (away with-out leave, meaning he wasn't given permission to leave).

Guard Stephon Marbury Away Without Leave - November 13, 2007 - by Bob Baum, AP

PHOENIX (AP) -- Stephon Marbury has left the New York Knicks and there is no word on when, or even if, he might rejoin the team.

...Marbury's absence followed a story in Tuesday's New York Daily News indicating the Knicks were trying to reduce his role or get rid of him. A trade seems unlikely, because Marbury is scheduled to earn $42 million over the next two seasons...

And an editorial:

Marbury's Exit Could Lead to Thomas' Departure - November 13, 2007, by Adrian Worjankowski, Yahoo! Sports

So, Stephon Marbury walked out on the New York Knicks. He just packed his bags and bailed on Tuesday, catching a flight out of Phoenix for Planet Starbury. This is what happens to a franchise when it’s turned over to knuckleheads and con men. From within, it implodes.

Today, Marbury.

Tomorrow, Isiah Thomas.

“I have one thing to say and that’s I got permission to leave,” Marbury countered in a text message Tuesday afternoon to the New York Post’s Marc Berman. “I would never leave my team on my own. What I’m telling you is that I got permission to leave from Isiah. He said I could go home.”

Well, Thomas left the impression on Tuesday morning at a shootaround that Marbury had left on his own, and that he had hoped his point guard would return for tonight’s game with the Phoenix Suns, or perhaps re-join the team in Los Angeles on Wednesday.

Surprise, surprise: Someone with the Knicks isn’t telling the truth.

“No, I’m not coming to L.A. as of now,” Marbury said in the text to the Post.

Who knows who’s fibbing here, and frankly, who cares anymore? As much as ever, Thomas and Marbury deserve one another. Once, these two turned together on former coach Larry Brown and Anucha Browne Sanders, the former Knicks employee who sued the team for sexual harassment. It was just a matter of time until they turned on each other.

Clearly, Thomas has decided to go after Marbury, and you have to wonder how much his owner, Jim Dolan, is behind this move. Thomas knew he’d have the public support for benching Marbury, but probably didn’t expect Marbury would create this circus by leaving the team.

Just Tuesday morning, the New York Daily News reported Marbury had been angry over learning he wouldn’t start against the Suns tonight. For most of his five seasons in New York, Marbury had been at odds with Thomas over how he was expected to play the point. Thomas wanted defense, passing and leadership. Marbury wanted to be Starbury. The Daily News even reported that there had been some discussion within the Knicks about ending Marbury’s tenure with the franchise, presumably through a buyout even before Marbury returned to New York on Tuesday.

Just one week ago, Marbury had played beautifully in a victory over the Denver Nuggets, and the frontline of Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry looked tough, and you thought, maybe, just maybe, there was something still redeemable in this wreckage. Yet, that’s all the Knicks have been built for under Thomas. Just flashes, never staying power.

Through it all, Marbury has reminded everyone that his ultimate motivation is never winning, never leading – never anything but living in his own bizarre world.

“It seems like he and I go through this every November, then a couple of weeks go by and we kind of kiss and make up, then we go back to the business of trying to win basketball games,” Thomas said.

That’s a load of garbage. This time, it’s different. And Thomas knows it. Marbury has always been on the edge, but he pushed the limits of his own strange self this past summer. First, there was an appearance on a New York sports talk show, where his speech was slurred and his presence discombobulated. And then, after testifying in the Thomas sexual harassment trial to having sex with a Knicks intern in a parked truck, Marbury pranced merrily out of the courtroom, singing to himself. As usual, Marbury made a humiliating episode worse with his indifference.

They can’t go on this way with Marbury. Once more, Thomas will have to walk into his owner’s office and tell him: Eat another contract. He has to go to the Garden’s Richie Rich, Dolan, and ask him to reach into his pockets to fix another one of Thomas’ mistakes.

All that’ll cost Dolan is the balance of a buyout on the $42 million owed Marbury over this season and next.

The possibility of a trade is relatively remote, but not impossible. Even so, it’s hard to imagine there’s a franchise willing to let him pollute it for the rest of this season, never mind another. If Marbury was in the final year of his contract, yes, there would probably be takers in a deal that would allow them salary-cap relief once his contract expired in 2009. Nevertheless, there could be teams willing to make a move for Marbury with the idea of buying him out immediately.

There was always this idea that somehow Marbury could change, grow up and transform his selfish self into a leader. He would speak of studying old point guard footage of Bob Cousy, but end up playing like World B. Free. He would tell his old coach with the Nets, Byron Scott, that he wanted to know everything about how Magic Johnson ran the Showtime Lakers, but his miserable, rainy disposition alienated teammates and isolated himself.

From the day Thomas traded for Marbury in 2004, the Knicks enabled his sense of entitlement, the fantasyland he had concocted in his mind where he was forever the over-hyped prodigy out of Coney Island. All along, Marbury had been trained to believe that basketball was a business where you took and took, and never gave back. At the core, point guards need to be givers, and Marbury is the ultimate taker.

He has fantastic street smarts, real intelligence and always gave people what they wanted to hear to buy himself more time: regular revelations of epiphanies. Once, it was wearing an orange jump suit in a short prison sentence for a DUI in Phoenix, and then the trade to his hometown Knicks, the chance to learn to be a point guard under Thomas and Brown, and this summer, those embarrassing episodes had Marbury declaring that he had changed again by finding God.

For now, anyway, Marbury will be Thomas’ scapegoat. This isn’t his fault, the way that the blame for Brown didn’t fall on him. The Knicks are just five games into the season, and they’re in chaos, full crisis mode. Marbury has walked out the door, and probably played his final game with the Knicks.

Today, Marbury.

Tomorrow, Thomas.

Wow. It gets even better:

Marbury: "I got so much on Isiah" - Yahoo! Rumor, November 14, 2007

The New York Daily News reported Wednesday that New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury told teammates on a charter flight: "Isiah has to start me," Marbury fumed, according to the Daily New source. "I've got so much (stuff) on Isiah and he knows it. He thinks he can (get) me. But I'll (get) him first. You have no idea what I know."

Marbury was talking about New York Knicks GM/Coach Isiah Thomas.

Marbury made his decision to return to home to New York once he was informed on the charter plane Monday afternoon that he would not be starting against the Phoenix Suns.

Source: New York Daily News

[mvblair]

Man, I remember those Starks and Mase led teams who would let no one walk away with an easy victory and then you comapre it to this sorry bunch.

How the mighty has fallen.

Well, don't get too depressed. Brandon Roy looks great. LaMarcus Aldridge is capable. And of course you've got that other fellow who is sitting out for the rest of the year...

NBA commissioner assails conduct of Knicks management -- AP, October 31, 2007

Even with the NBA season under way, commissioner David Stern hasn't forgotten the New York Knicks' embarrassing offseason.

In an interview broadcast Tuesday, Stern questioned the conduct of Knicks management, which lost a sexual-harassment case in early October.

Asked about the state of the Knicks, Stern told ESPN: "It demonstrates that they're not a model of intelligent management. There were many checkpoints along the way where more decisive action would have eliminated this issue."

Madison Square Garden chairman James L. Dolan, who hasn't spoken publicly since a jury ordered his team to pay $11.6 million to former Knicks' executive Anucha Browne Sanders, said in a statement Tuesday that "we have high regard for the commissioner.

"Right now, what we can all agree on is that the best thing for the Knicks is to get on the court and win some basketball games."

The Knicks open their season Friday at Cleveland.

Knicks coach Isiah Thomas was the primary defendant in the Browne Sanders lawsuit. He said he didn't hear Stern's comments but said Dolan spoke for the Knicks.

"Jim made a statement for the organization, and the statement speaks for itself," said Thomas, who has maintained his innocence since the lawsuit was filed last year.

In the past, Stern has not punished teams over civil judgments but he has not ruled out sanctions against the Knicks and Thomas. The Knicks have appealed the decision.

Stern said the case was "very much under review.

"I'm not considering any range of disciplinary action," Stern said, "but my powers are very broad if I choose to exercise them."

[Billy]

And beyond that, his defense is really awful. I've never seen a player with his mass get pushed around so much in the post. Is that what you've seen too?

Yeah. it is amazing since he can do alot of damage on offence with his strength but on defence...well, lets just say that I believe bambi would protect the rim better than randolph.

Man, I remember those Starks and Mase led teams who would let no one walk away with an easy victory and then you comapre it to this sorry bunch.

How the mighty has fallen.