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**alermac** · 10-03-2007, 12:58 AM

This is great news for the Knicks. Now they have a chance to fire him and start all over again.

**mvblair** · 10-03-2007, 11:16 AM

You're terrible, Alermac.

Weeds in the Garden
by Adrian Worjankowski

...These jurors did basketball, did the NBA, a public service.

...The Knicks and Thomas lost the case, which isn’t surprising because they lose everything...

There’s a passive-aggressive way to how Thomas bullies people – that charming, radiant smile that turns into something far different behind closed doors, where for too long his motives have forever left people distrustful, even fearful, of him. Between his professional competency and his workplace behavior, it says so much about the Knicks that they’re still the one franchise in basketball that would even employ him to scout Siberia – never mind run and coach the Knicks.

...America already knows now: Between sexually harassing bosses, and star players treating young interns as sexual spoils of the job, you wouldn’t wish your worst enemy’s daughter to be trapped working there. “The Garden of Evil,” an ex-employee calls it. “They’ll take your soul away if you let them.”

Don’t suspend Thomas. That would be too easy. The better punishment for Thomas would be to make him stand in the Garden and face those fans that Browne Sanders said he trashed in meetings.

Make him stand there and lord over another lottery season with the highest payroll in the sport.

Make him coach a point guard, Stephon Marbury, who behaves like he belongs in Bellevue.

This is Thomas’ last job in basketball, last job of relevance anyway, and let it play out to the scorn of a fed-up New York. Under the weight of all this greed and hubris, a morally bankrupt franchise, and its face, collapsed in Manhattan. All together, the Knicks and Isiah Thomas had it coming.

I really want Stuart to respond to this thread, because I think he's an Isiah Thomas fan...

**mvblair** · 10-04-2007, 11:41 AM

Thomas Will Pay Later
by Sean Deveny

...Here are three things to know about this case, and how it will affect the future of Thomas, the Knicks and the league.

1. There will be no NBA penalty levied against Thomas or the Knicks. Why? Because the case filed against Thomas was a civil case, not a criminal case, and while the NBA's system of rules provides punishment (suspensions and/or fines) for guilty verdicts in criminal cases, it does not provide punishment in civil cases...

2. This will hurt in the long run. The Knicks, obviously, can afford $11.6 million...

The problems this case will leave behind can't be fixed with wins...It's going to hurt -- no matter what they say -- the players' view of Thomas. Their coach is on thin ice, and that's a very easy way to lose a team, ensuring more miserable losing...

3. Isiah Thomas will never get another NBA job. He will, eventually, be fired by the Knicks. And then, that's it. The curtain has been lifted on Thomas. He does, indeed, have a nice smile. He also has an incredible history of ineptitude.

He is not much of a coach. With the Pacers from 2000-01 through '02-03, he helped the team go from 41-41 to 48-34 in three seasons. But he could never win a playoff series, even in 2003, when his third-seeded Pacers lost to No. 6 Boston. Rick Carlisle got hold of what was, essentially, the same team and took it to 61 wins and the East final.

He is not much of an administrator. That much was clear back in the late 90s, when Thomas was the general manager of the Raptors. He made some nice draft picks, but he bungled the firing of first-year coach Brendan Malone. (That should sound familiar, at least to Don Chaney.) When it became clear he wasn't going to be made full owner in Toronto, Thomas went looking for another job, as a commentator on NBC. We can assume that this trial will torpedo Thomas' hopes for future TV gigs.

Thomas looking for another job sounds familiar to former owners of Continental Basketball Association teams. In 1999, they were sold a bill of goods by Thomas when they agreed to let him run the league, believing his promise that he would leverage his NBA contacts into making the CBA the NBA's official minor league. Instead, he ran the CBA into the ground, forcing the league to fold. And, just as the CBA was on the brink of destruction, where was its fearless leader? Interviewing for the Pacers coaching job. Classy...

Sean Deveny seems to want Isiah to fail because he's written two columns in three days about this. I want Isiah to be fired too, but I'm not going to obsess about it!

**mvblair** · 10-09-2007, 12:16 PM

Sharpton Calls for Boycott

Al Sharpton is a New York City-based Reverand. He has been involved in many high-profile cases becasue he has a big "media presence" and seems to take an opinion on many stories in the news. He ran as a Democrat during the 2004 election.

Isiah Thomas Calls Al Sharpton - by KATHLEEN LUCADAMO and FRANK ISOLA, New York Daily News

As the Reverand Al Sharpton called for a Knicks boycott yesterday, the team's coach called him and denied insulting black women.

Isiah Thomas claimed lawyers doctored a tape of him saying it was worse for a white man to call a black woman a bitch than for a black man...

Sharpton said he wasn't sure he was buying the coach's explanation, but "I give him the benefit of the doubt."

Sharpton said he will speak further with Thomas, but will not call off the boycott if he thinks an apology is still needed.

Browne Sanders' lawyer, Kevin Mintzer, said yesterday that the entire tape was seven hours and the jury heard key excerpts. "There was no objection made to the clip by his many, many lawyers,"Mintzer said.

I hope Al Sharpton sticks to his guns here. The more and more I hear about this story, the more and more I think Isiah Thomas is in the wrong.

**mvblair** · 10-11-2007, 12:27 PM

Does anybody care?

Stern Trying to Avoid Comment- by CHRIS LEHOURITES, AP Sports Writer

LONDON (AP) -- David Stern still isn't ready to talk in detail about Isiah Thomas' sexual harassment trial.
...

"What I said then was that it was still under consideration," Stern said. "That there were many issues having to do with understanding the transcript, understanding what exactly the jury did and what role a possible appeal should play in considering this. And I further said I wanted to discuss it with the board of governors."
...

**mvblair** · 10-27-2007, 11:54 PM

So far, my attempts to get Stuart and any other Isiah Thomas fan to comment have been futile.

Stringer is Latest to Blast Thomas - October 27, 2007, by Alan Hahn

Rutgers women's basketball coach C. Vivian Stringer, whose team was the subject of the infamous "nappy headed ho's" comment by Don Imus, blasted Isiah Thomas on Friday for the comments he made regarding the use of the word "bitch" toward a woman during his video deposition in the Anucha Browne Sanders sexual harassment trial.

"I thought he lost his mind, honestly," Stringer told ESPN.

"You want to know what I really felt? It was disgusting," Stringer added. "What does he think? This was a woman first. He has no right to put her down and then think it's OK for me to put her down but it's not all right for a white man to put her down. What are you talking about? She is a human being, and as a female, and in particular as a black female, I took tremendous offense to that."

Thomas in the video deposition suggested that he would be more offended if a white man called a black woman a bitch than if a black man used the same word toward a black woman. "I'm sorry to say, I do make a distinction," Thomas said in the deposition.

Thomas has since clarified his statement by saying it was highly offensive for anyone to use that word toward a woman. He has said Sanders' lawyers edited the deposition to make his words seem worse.

After Friday's 102-86 loss to the Nets in the preseason finale at Madison Square Garden, Thomas reacted to Stringer's criticism with a similar appeal to the one he made to Rev. Al Sharpton after Sharpton threatened to call for a boycott of the Garden until Thomas publicly apologized.

"If she would like to hear the facts, and not the innuendos and edited portions of what I supposedly said, I'm not hard to find. It's easy to get what I said," Thomas said. "So don't speak from ignorance. Get the facts of what I said and not the portion that was taken out of context."

This idea that Thomas has that his statement "was taken out of context" is ridiculous. I can't think of any context in which what he said would be acceptable.

**mvblair** · 10-30-2007, 03:35 PM

After rough summer, Knicks' Thomas needs a winner to get fans off his back -- October 30, 2007 -- by BRIAN MAHONEY, AP Basketball Writer

There were a few minutes left when the boos started during a recent New York Knicks exhibition game.

That's a few minutes left BEFORE the game.

Isiah Thomas' name had just been announced during pregame introductions, and the reaction from the Madison Square Garden crowd wasn't surprising. Disgusted by the accusations against the coach in a sexual harassment trial and fed up with the string of losing seasons since his arrival, fans let the beleaguered Thomas have it.

The harsh treatment may continue as long as the losing does, so the Knicks are confronted with a different type of challenge as they enter the season: Can they win enough to get the fans off their coach's back?

"I think we're going to be a good basketball team this year," Thomas said earlier this month. "I thought last year, before we were injured, we were a good basketball team. I don't see how we won't be a good basketball team this year."

Thomas was in good spirits that day, a rarity in recent weeks. He has otherwise often seemed like a man defeated -- which is exactly what he was in court on the day training camp opened without him.

A jury ruled that Thomas and Madison Square Garden had sexually harassed former team executive Anucha Browne Sanders, and Thomas was accused during the trial of using profanity around women and making derogatory statements about white season ticket holders.

The lawsuit was the last straw for many New Yorkers who already wondered why Thomas still has a job in the first place after the Knicks have failed to win a playoff game since his arrival as team president in December 2003. But even if the fans have given up on Thomas, the 15 players in the locker room still believe.

"He really knows talent," guard Jamal Crawford said. "He feels like when he gets guys together, he can put them on the same page. He feels like he has the skills to do that. A lot of guys can't do that. If anybody can do it, Isiah can do it. He demands respect. He treats everybody the same and that commands respect."

Thomas often did that with an engaging personality and a frequent smile or laugh. But he's been missing those around the media, choosing instead to answer in short sentences or cliches, sometimes looking at the floor instead of the questioner.

He coached last season under a mandate from owner James Dolan to show "evident progress" or be fired, and he responded by leading the Knicks to a 10-win improvement from the previous season, keeping them in the playoff race until the final month and earning a contract extension.

Neither Thomas nor the Knicks say his job is in jeopardy again as a result of the verdict, but only Dolan can decide, and he hasn't spoken since the trial. Still, knowing his actions helped cost his boss at least $11.6 million, it would probably help Thomas' standing if he delivers a winning team.

Luckily for Thomas, the part of his summer before the trial went well.

He made a good trade on draft night, picking up power forward Zach Randolph and swingman Fred Jones from Portland. Randolph averaged 23.6 points and 10.1 rebounds last season, and could be even better against the weaker competition he'll face in the Eastern Conference.

The Knicks' summer league team then went undefeated in Las Vegas, with Nate Robinson winning MVP honors. Renaldo Balkman also played on that team, and those two along with David Lee will make up the core of what should be an energetic and productive bench.

With the potential of a dominant frontcourt tandem of Randolph and Eddy Curry, who averaged 19.5 points last season, and enough other scoring from Crawford and point guard Stephon Marbury, the Knicks are capable of making a leap up the standings.

But Thomas already identified Boston, New Jersey and defending champion Toronto as the elite of the Atlantic Division. With at least three teams from the Central and another two or three from the Southeast also looking strong, there's no guarantee New York will be a playoff club.

"We're the underdogs right now," Randolph said. "We've got to work our way up, keep on getting better and don't worry about all those other teams. We've got to worry about ourselves."

The Knicks haven't won a playoff game since 2001, so Thomas isn't the only one in New York with a hole in his resume. Only the Grizzlies, who have never won a postseason game since coming into the league in 1996, and Atlanta (1999) have gone longer without a single playoff victory.

Crawford (452) and Curry (442) are the active leaders among regular-season games played without ever appearing in a playoff one, and Crawford says they've got to change that this year.

He also realizes something else must be different. With the trial coming just a year after the team's firing and refusal to pay the remainder of Larry Brown's contract, the Knicks have found ways to keep themselves newsworthy. But it's been a long time since they were relevant on the court, a problem the players want to do something about.

"I think it's definitely important," Crawford said. "Our fans have been really, really patient and everybody in the organization's been patient, but it's time to really step up."

Getting Zach Randolph certainly does help, but he's basically the same slow, plodding defender as Eddy Curry. Unfortunately, as this article says, the Knicks and Isiah will get more press about their off-court behavior than whatever little on-court success they have.

**Billy** · 10-30-2007, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by mvblair

Getting Zach Randolph certainly does help, but he's basically the same slow, plodding defender as Eddy Curry. Unfortunately, as this article says, the Knicks and Isiah will get more press about their off-court behavior than whatever little on-court success they have.

Being a long time Blazers fan I have had a lot of unfortunate experiences watching Randolph and if there is one thing he is good at, its racking up stats without ever really making any difference on the court. As a fantasy player he is a great pick but as a lockerroom presence/team leader or as a franchise player he really, really sucks imo.

**mvblair** · 10-30-2007, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Billy

Being a long time Blazers fan I have had a lot of unfortunate experiences watching Randolph and if there is one thing he is good at, its racking up stats without ever really making any difference on the court. As a fantasy player he is a great pick but as a lockerroom presence/team leader or as a franchise player he really, really sucks imo.

And beyond that, his defense is really awful. I've never seen a player with his mass get pushed around so much in the post. Is that what you've seen too?

**jorje29** · 10-30-2007, 11:16 PM

isiah thomas will be past soon for the NBA

**Billy** · 10-31-2007, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by mvblair

And beyond that, his defense is really awful. I've never seen a player with his mass get pushed around so much in the post. Is that what you've seen too?

Yeah. it is amazing since he can do alot of damage on offence with his strength but on defence...well, lets just say that I believe bambi would protect the rim better than randolph.

Man, I remember those Starks and Mase led teams who would let no one walk away with an easy victory and then you comapre it to this sorry bunch.

How the mighty has fallen.

**mvblair** · 10-31-2007, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Billy

Man, I remember those Starks and Mase led teams who would let no one walk away with an easy victory and then you comapre it to this sorry bunch.

How the mighty has fallen.

Well, don't get too depressed.

Brandon Roy looks great. LaMarcus Aldridge is capable. And of course you've got that other fellow who is sitting out for the rest of the year...

NBA commissioner assails conduct of Knicks management -- AP, October 31, 2007

Even with the NBA season under way, commissioner David Stern hasn't forgotten the New York Knicks' embarrassing offseason.

In an interview broadcast Tuesday, Stern questioned the conduct of Knicks management, which lost a sexual-harassment case in early October.

Asked about the state of the Knicks, Stern told ESPN: "It demonstrates that they're not a model of intelligent management. There were many checkpoints along the way where more decisive action would have eliminated this issue."

Madison Square Garden chairman James L. Dolan, who hasn't spoken publicly since a jury ordered his team to pay $11.6 million to former Knicks' executive Anucha Browne Sanders, said in a statement Tuesday that "we have high regard for the commissioner.

"Right now, what we can all agree on is that the best thing for the Knicks is to get on the court and win some basketball games."

The Knicks open their season Friday at Cleveland.

Knicks coach Isiah Thomas was the primary defendant in the Browne Sanders lawsuit. He said he didn't hear Stern's comments but said Dolan spoke for the Knicks.

"Jim made a statement for the organization, and the statement speaks for itself," said Thomas, who has maintained his innocence since the lawsuit was filed last year.

In the past, Stern has not punished teams over civil judgments but he has not ruled out sanctions against the Knicks and Thomas. The Knicks have appealed the decision.

Stern said the case was "very much under review.

"I'm not considering any range of disciplinary action," Stern said, "but my powers are very broad if I choose to exercise them."

**mvblair** · 11-14-2007, 01:33 PM

Stephon Marbury skipped practice with the Knicks, who are on a brief West Coast trip. Marbury then jetted back to New York, "texting" reporters and telling them that he was given permission. The Knicks have listed Stephon Marbury as "AWOL" (away with-out leave, meaning he wasn't given permission to leave).

Guard Stephon Marbury Away Without Leave - November 13, 2007 - by Bob Baum, AP

PHOENIX (AP) -- Stephon Marbury has left the New York Knicks and there is no word on when, or even if, he might rejoin the team.

...Marbury's absence followed a story in Tuesday's New York Daily News indicating the Knicks were trying to reduce his role or get rid of him. A trade seems unlikely, because Marbury is scheduled to earn $42 million over the next two seasons...

And an editorial:

Marbury's Exit Could Lead to Thomas' Departure - November 13, 2007, by Adrian Worjankowski, Yahoo! Sports

So, Stephon Marbury walked out on the New York Knicks. He just packed his bags and bailed on Tuesday, catching a flight out of Phoenix for Planet Starbury. This is what happens to a franchise when it’s turned over to knuckleheads and con men. From within, it implodes.

Today, Marbury.

Tomorrow, Isiah Thomas.

“I have one thing to say and that’s I got permission to leave,” Marbury countered in a text message Tuesday afternoon to the New York Post’s Marc Berman. “I would never leave my team on my own. What I’m telling you is that I got permission to leave from Isiah. He said I could go home.”

Well, Thomas left the impression on Tuesday morning at a shootaround that Marbury had left on his own, and that he had hoped his point guard would return for tonight’s game with the Phoenix Suns, or perhaps re-join the team in Los Angeles on Wednesday.

Surprise, surprise: Someone with the Knicks isn’t telling the truth.

“No, I’m not coming to L.A. as of now,” Marbury said in the text to the Post.

Who knows who’s fibbing here, and frankly, who cares anymore? As much as ever, Thomas and Marbury deserve one another. Once, these two turned together on former coach Larry Brown and Anucha Browne Sanders, the former Knicks employee who sued the team for sexual harassment. It was just a matter of time until they turned on each other.

Clearly, Thomas has decided to go after Marbury, and you have to wonder how much his owner, Jim Dolan, is behind this move. Thomas knew he’d have the public support for benching Marbury, but probably didn’t expect Marbury would create this circus by leaving the team.

Just Tuesday morning, the New York Daily News reported Marbury had been angry over learning he wouldn’t start against the Suns tonight. For most of his five seasons in New York, Marbury had been at odds with Thomas over how he was expected to play the point. Thomas wanted defense, passing and leadership. Marbury wanted to be Starbury. The Daily News even reported that there had been some discussion within the Knicks about ending Marbury’s tenure with the franchise, presumably through a buyout even before Marbury returned to New York on Tuesday.

Just one week ago, Marbury had played beautifully in a victory over the Denver Nuggets, and the frontline of Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry looked tough, and you thought, maybe, just maybe, there was something still redeemable in this wreckage. Yet, that’s all the Knicks have been built for under Thomas. Just flashes, never staying power.

Through it all, Marbury has reminded everyone that his ultimate motivation is never winning, never leading – never anything but living in his own bizarre world.

“It seems like he and I go through this every November, then a couple of weeks go by and we kind of kiss and make up, then we go back to the business of trying to win basketball games,” Thomas said.

That’s a load of garbage. This time, it’s different. And Thomas knows it. Marbury has always been on the edge, but he pushed the limits of his own strange self this past summer. First, there was an appearance on a New York sports talk show, where his speech was slurred and his presence discombobulated. And then, after testifying in the Thomas sexual harassment trial to having sex with a Knicks intern in a parked truck, Marbury pranced merrily out of the courtroom, singing to himself. As usual, Marbury made a humiliating episode worse with his indifference.

They can’t go on this way with Marbury. Once more, Thomas will have to walk into his owner’s office and tell him: Eat another contract. He has to go to the Garden’s Richie Rich, Dolan, and ask him to reach into his pockets to fix another one of Thomas’ mistakes.

All that’ll cost Dolan is the balance of a buyout on the $42 million owed Marbury over this season and next.

The possibility of a trade is relatively remote, but not impossible. Even so, it’s hard to imagine there’s a franchise willing to let him pollute it for the rest of this season, never mind another. If Marbury was in the final year of his contract, yes, there would probably be takers in a deal that would allow them salary-cap relief once his contract expired in 2009. Nevertheless, there could be teams willing to make a move for Marbury with the idea of buying him out immediately.

There was always this idea that somehow Marbury could change, grow up and transform his selfish self into a leader. He would speak of studying old point guard footage of Bob Cousy, but end up playing like World B. Free. He would tell his old coach with the Nets, Byron Scott, that he wanted to know everything about how Magic Johnson ran the Showtime Lakers, but his miserable, rainy disposition alienated teammates and isolated himself.

From the day Thomas traded for Marbury in 2004, the Knicks enabled his sense of entitlement, the fantasyland he had concocted in his mind where he was forever the over-hyped prodigy out of Coney Island. All along, Marbury had been trained to believe that basketball was a business where you took and took, and never gave back. At the core, point guards need to be givers, and Marbury is the ultimate taker.

He has fantastic street smarts, real intelligence and always gave people what they wanted to hear to buy himself more time: regular revelations of epiphanies. Once, it was wearing an orange jump suit in a short prison sentence for a DUI in Phoenix, and then the trade to his hometown Knicks, the chance to learn to be a point guard under Thomas and Brown, and this summer, those embarrassing episodes had Marbury declaring that he had changed again by finding God.

For now, anyway, Marbury will be Thomas’ scapegoat. This isn’t his fault, the way that the blame for Brown didn’t fall on him. The Knicks are just five games into the season, and they’re in chaos, full crisis mode. Marbury has walked out the door, and probably played his final game with the Knicks.

Today, Marbury.

Tomorrow, Thomas.

Wow. It gets even better:

Marbury: "I got so much on Isiah" - Yahoo! Rumor, November 14, 2007

The New York Daily News reported Wednesday that New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury told teammates on a charter flight: "Isiah has to start me," Marbury fumed, according to the Daily New source. "I've got so much (stuff) on Isiah and he knows it. He thinks he can (get) me. But I'll (get) him first. You have no idea what I know."

Marbury was talking about New York Knicks GM/Coach Isiah Thomas.

Marbury made his decision to return to home to New York once he was informed on the charter plane Monday afternoon that he would not be starting against the Phoenix Suns.

Source: New York Daily News

**mvblair** · 11-14-2007, 06:08 PM

Sean Deveany blames Isiah:

Thomas is All Too Willing to Sacrifice Marbury -- November 14, 2007, by Sean Deveany, Sports Illustrated

Stephon Marbury, the player, has been vastly overrated for years now, the kind of me-first point guard that frustrates coaches, frustrates teammates and frustrates those who prefer to watch basketball rather than Globetrotter-esque, one-on-one demonstrations.

Stephon Marbury, the man, isn't very impressive, either, having pouted his way out of Minnesota because Kevin Garnett got too much attention, declaring himself the "best point guard in the NBA", and getting into locker-room fights with teammates. The revelation that Marbury, who is married, had sex with a Knicks intern in the back seat of his truck outside a strip club in 2005 was one of the creepier points of the Anucha Browne Sanders case this summer.

Given that history, it's easy to see why Marbury has been dumped by three franchises in 11 years, and could be on the brink of being dumped by yet another. But if you want to point a finger here, don't do it at Marbury. Do it at someone even less admirable -- Knicks coach Isiah Thomas.

Marbury went AWOL Tuesday after hearing that Thomas planned to move him to the bench for a game in Phoenix that night. Which raises a question: What, exactly, did Marbury do to deserve this?

...

It was a difficult summer for both Marbury and Thomas. Then the season got rolling and, despite the late-game meltdown against the Heat, Marbury was not playing terribly. All the sudden, after five games, Thomas decides that he is going to replace Marbury? Hmm. Why? Do the Knicks have some All-Star-in-waiting point guard on the bench? Who is it that Thomas simply must put in the starting lineup? Tell us, please

...

In the end, this Marbury mess is not so much about Marbury as it is about Thomas. The guy is desperate. You don't just trash your starting lineup after five games. But Thomas' job is very much in peril, and it's looking more and more like the Knicks will be a 35-win team no matter how Thomas juggles the pieces.

...

In the meantime, Thomas has again sold out someone else for his own benefit. That's pretty much been his M.O. throughout his entire post-playing life. The Marbury mess has created a sideshow big enough to hide the fact that the team is 2-4 and will probably be 2-7 when it gets back from its Western road trip. But now, Thomas can sell team honcho James Dolan (who is one shockingly gullible fellow) on the notion that the Knicks will get it together once they can find a suitable trade or buyout for Marbury. Thomas can buy himself some time, possibly to find some other gullible employer and make his escape from New York look like it was his choice.

If Thomas can rescue some of his dignity at the expense of Marbury, one of his most loyal followers, he'll most certainly do so.

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