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  • #31
    Originally posted by Toruko View Post
    You cant compare the defensive intensity of Jordans and Hakeems time. He is a good defender but there are others who dont give a shit about the regular season. Two of them are Lebron and Kawhi.

    Giannis and the Bucks can only show their worth in the playoffs. Regular season is just circus.

    My criterion is clear. The more skill set you put successfully on the court, the better you are. I cant take someone who cant shoot into the top 3 player list.
    This is all BS of course... utter nonsense!

    You should let the Serbians teach you some basketball basics instead of thinking the "traditional American NBA" which was based on the star players and had no coaching tactics designed before the games.

    Giannis only needs a better coach (not in culture but in actual game tactics abilities) behind him, a coach who would make full use of his abilities and would put together a roster which would really maximize Giannis' abilities and there would be a dynasty dominating everything in the NBA for the following seasons.

    Can the Bucks put together a Bogdanovic (at PG), Middleton (at SG), Bjelica (at SF), Giannis (at PF) and any Center able to have a physical game/ protect the rim for next season? This is the key which will unlock Giannis... Clearly the Bucks miss Brogdon from the previous season, Giannis needs more playmaking behind him.

    Originally posted by Toruko View Post
    My criterion is clear.
    Crystal... it's all BS!

    Comment


    • #32
      There you go!

      No need to be that angry and this is also not "how good is Giannis" thread and i surely dont need lessons from any Serb here.

      You are just a fanboy without any objectivity.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Toruko View Post
        There you go!

        No need to be that angry and this is also not "how good is Giannis" thread and i surely dont need lessons from any Serb here.

        You are just a fanboy without any objectivity.
        You surely need many basketball lessons from a nation which is teaching basketball all the rest of the world including the NBA...

        I'm "the fanboy without any objectivity" here ?

        You are arguing with everybody, not only posters here but the league itself in your desperate attempt to diminish Giannis and I'm the "fanboy"?

        Heck, the man was voted "the most wanted NBA player" by 75% of the governors out of all NBA teams in their preseason meeting this season and I'm the "fanboy"?, or is it you who thinks knows better than all, the governors, Shaq, Barkley, Kareem, KD himself and all posters here?

        You are laughable at buddy... a clown!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Buckalis View Post
          Why does it remind you this? He says nothing on opponents, or compares Giannis with his opponents.

          Exactly.



          You are no fun of his playing, because you are coming from a country with totally different basketball culture than how the game it is played in the NBA, albeit, I believe there is convergence of cultures happening as we speak.

          I mean in Serbia/ex-Yugoslavia, you always had great players but what made Serbian/Yugoslavian basketball great, was the team work which was (and still is) taught to these great players and differentiated them from the players in the NBA.

          However, the Bucks are also different in that respect from other NBA teams and while teams like the Lakers or the Clippers play more with the traditional NBA style, which is based on their Star Players making the difference, the Bucks have coach Bud who has been mentored by Pops (who in his turn was mentored by the greatest, Ivkovic and Obradovic) and therefore, Giannis is all about team work and team functioning to win.

          I guess what all this should come down to, is this:

          If the Bucks could have a better coach (not in culture, but in actual game tactics) than Bud, a top coach, like say Jeljko or Scariolo and if they could add some more play-making and shooting around Giannis, like say if they could add Bogdan and Nemanja this up coming off season (which should be feasible now that Vlade and Peja parted with the Kings and Bogdan is an RFA)...

          Then the Bucks would turn to a dynasty in the NBA which would last for as long as Bogdan's, Giannis' and Middleton's career would last... wouldn't they?
          No, you got me wrong. In fact I wanted to say that Giannis lacks some things I like at players (not depending if NBA or Euros). But that doesn't mean that he isn't overall a more valuable player than my favourite NBA players. I am well aware what kind of beast he is and he is undoubtfully a big force for every NBA team where he will play the next 10 years. I haven't to be a fan to acknowledge that he is a monster of a player and future hall of famer without any doubt. That's why I said that hate being spit on him is really embarassing. Giannis matures every season in a positive attitude, he is a great worker, after every summer he comes back stronger. Sure, people can complain about the change of his stroke after rookie season but I am with Shawshank's explanation that I would always build a team around a player that provides this kind of athleticism and focus of opponent's defense. Giannis shot 10-26 for 3 in 5 PO games in the bubble. Just for comparison: Kawhi 9-30. But yeah, people keep on spitting that Giannis is a bad shooter. People are tending to overvalue some things. Yes, he has weakspots but more than his shooting it's decision making in my opinion. But this comes with experience. I am sure Giannis will take titles in his career. Question is not if but when, where and how many.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Katastroika View Post
            No, you got me wrong. In fact I wanted to say that Giannis lacks some things I like at players (not depending if NBA or Euros). But that doesn't mean that he isn't overall a more valuable player than my favourite NBA players. I am well aware what kind of beast he is and he is undoubtfully a big force for every NBA team where he will play the next 10 years. I haven't to be a fan to acknowledge that he is a monster of a player and future hall of famer without any doubt. That's why I said that hate being spit on him is really embarassing. Giannis matures every season in a positive attitude, he is a great worker, after every summer he comes back stronger. Sure, people can complain about the change of his stroke after rookie season but I am with Shawshank's explanation that I would always build a team around a player that provides this kind of athleticism and focus of opponent's defense. Giannis shot 10-26 for 3 in 5 PO games in the bubble. Just for comparison: Kawhi 9-30. But yeah, people keep on spitting that Giannis is a bad shooter. People are tending to overvalue some things. Yes, he has weakspots but more than his shooting it's decision making in my opinion. But this comes with experience. I am sure Giannis will take titles in his career. Question is not if but when, where and how many.
            I didn't get you wrong, I understood it was "just a phrase" which not really meant what it said. I just took the opportunity and discuss how can Giannis' game/efficiency can be maxed...

            The thing is, that Giannis clearly lacks the playmaking that Brogdon was providing behind him a season earlier and additionally, the Bucks lack a big SF/PF so that they can alternatively play "3 towers on the floor" when the match ups require so... Matthews is a good defender, but he clearly is an "off the ball" guy, not a play-maker and that costs in Giannis ability to "pick and roll the ball" with the guards because the Bucks don't have the "2nd playmaker always on the floor" behind Giannis like they did last season, where they were rotating Hill on both Bledsoe and Brogdon so that two of them were always on the court.

            Additionally, if the Bucks would have a Bjelica/Gallinari kind of big SF/PF coming from the bench whenever the game requires "playing big", they would be able achieve two things:
            1. Have a threat in the opposite side of the court from which Giannis is occupying, which would lead in disabling the ability of the opponent's coach to "built a wall" in order to stop Giannis, because it would pull a big in the other side and also, the Bucks would be able to retain the 2nd play-maker behind Giannis by playing Middleton at 2.

            Comment


            • #36
              Guys I already told ya. This is not a Giannis Thread. If you have needs to talk about him, you are free to open one but this thread goes in the wrong direction.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Buckalis View Post
                I didn't get you wrong, I understood it was "just a phrase" which not really meant what it said. I just took the opportunity and discuss how can Giannis' game/efficiency can be maxed...

                The thing is, that Giannis clearly lacks the playmaking that Brogdon was providing behind him a season earlier and additionally, the Bucks lack a big SF/PF so that they can alternatively play "3 towers on the floor" when the match ups require so... Matthews is a good defender, but he clearly is an "off the ball" guy, not a play-maker and that costs in Giannis ability to "pick and roll the ball" with the guards because the Bucks don't have the "2nd playmaker always on the floor" behind Giannis like they did last season, where they were rotating Hill on both Bledsoe and Brogdon so that two of them were always on the court.

                Additionally, if the Bucks would have a Bjelica/Gallinari kind of big SF/PF coming from the bench whenever the game requires "playing big", they would be able achieve two things:
                1. Have a threat in the opposite side of the court from which Giannis is occupying, which would lead in disabling the ability of the opponent's coach to "built a wall" in order to stop Giannis, because it would pull a big in the other side and also, the Bucks would be able to retain the 2nd play-maker behind Giannis by playing Middleton at 2.
                It is very doubtable that a second playmaker is necessary in those cases. I mean, yeah, it never is bad to have someone for (sorry for modern word) "secondary creation" but in fact the receipe for the Bucks is pretty simple. Spread - encircle Giannis with 4 good shooters and look that wings and forwards are good rebounders. I agree that a player like Bogdanovic really would look interesting in combination with Giannis. Or someone like SGA with a little better shooting maybe even more. But it wouldn't change much. I also doubt that Giannis would like that he is not the absolute primary solution in setting and running the offensive sets. He is not selfish but he is a strong Alfa. I consider the Bucks roster management very interesting and positive because they chose players that exactly live and like their roles. The better the players get in order of creating the more they want the ball in their hands. That's a fact that you shouldn't underestimate.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I think current Giannis' main issue is not even his shooting, but his overall lack of skills when compared to other MVP level players like Lebron or Kawhi. Folks love to emphasize how Lebron always dominated only thanks to his otherwordly athleticism, but the guy was incredibly skilled and a true floor general from very young age...hell, he was Cavs main PG as an 18 year old rookie straight out of high school lmao. Giannis never seems and still doesn't look as natural and fluid as other great players - everything comes forced and quite unnatural with him, including his biggest weakness of course, which is shooting

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Katastroika View Post
                    It is very doubtable that a second playmaker is necessary in those cases. I mean, yeah, it never is bad to have someone for (sorry for modern word) "secondary creation" but in fact the receipe for the Bucks is pretty simple. Spread - encircle Giannis with 4 good shooters and look that wings and forwards are good rebounders. I agree that a player like Bogdanovic really would look interesting in combination with Giannis. Or someone like SGA with a little better shooting maybe even more. But it wouldn't change much. I also doubt that Giannis would like that he is not the absolute primary solution in setting and running the offensive sets. He is not selfish but he is a strong Alfa. I consider the Bucks roster management very interesting and positive because they chose players that exactly live and like their roles. The better the players get in order of creating the more they want the ball in their hands. That's a fact that you shouldn't underestimate.
                    I think you are wrong on the necessity the Bucks have on a second playmaker behind Giannis, just look at his efficiency when Matthews is on the floor and then when Matthews isn't but a playmaker plays the 2 alongside the PG... Numbers don't lie, Giannis efficiency shoots off the roof when Matthews sits.

                    I didn't mention Bogdan because he would be a better choice from S.G.Alexander or other... I have a tendency to suggest only feasible roster changes that are possible to happen...

                    S.G.A isn't in the market, nor I believe the Thunder have any intentions on parting with him, other playmakers who are possible to be in the market and would fit well alongside Giannis, could be Beal or even better CP3, but they are way out financially for the Bucks to add, therefore I suggested Bogdanovic because him parting with the Kings is the most probable scenario after Divac/Stojakovic have resigned and I'm sure that if Bogdan will walk out, Nemanja will surely want to follow him to his new destination.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Buckalis View Post
                      I think you are wrong on the necessity the Bucks have on a second playmaker behind Giannis, just look at his efficiency when Matthews is on the floor and then when Matthews isn't but a playmaker plays the 2 alongside the PG... Numbers don't lie, Giannis efficiency shoots off the roof when Matthews sits.

                      I didn't mention Bogdan because he would be a better choice from S.G.Alexander or other... I have a tendency to suggest only feasible roster changes that are possible to happen...

                      S.G.A isn't in the market, nor I believe the Thunder have any intentions on parting with him, other playmakers who are possible to be in the market and would fit well alongside Giannis, could be Beal or even better CP3, but they are way out financially for the Bucks to add, therefore I suggested Bogdanovic because him parting with the Kings is the most probable scenario after Divac/Stojakovic have resigned and I'm sure that if Bogdan will walk out, Nemanja will surely want to follow him to his new destination.
                      I don't know Bucks cap situation but Bogdan will receive a heavy contract next season. If possible, why not. Sounds lile win-win. Anyways, first of all I am curious if Gisnnis intension is to play in Wisconsin forever. I hope so. Would rise his legacy even more.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Katastroika View Post
                        I don't know Bucks cap situation but Bogdan will receive a heavy contract next season. If possible, why not. Sounds lile win-win. Anyways, first of all I am curious if Gisnnis intension is to play in Wisconsin forever. I hope so. Would rise his legacy even more.


                        Under the circumstances, I believe that the Kings will want to move Bogdan on a "Sign and trade" agreement so that they won't lose him for nothing on a contract offer from another team that they won't be able to pay.

                        The Kings have of course the right to match any contract offer, but if Bogdan is offered more than 20M or similar, the Kings will be in a very difficult financial position to match that, because they also have Holmes to renew and then Fox expires a season later... Therefore I believe they will have to agree on a S&T for Bogdan.

                        The situation is like this, the Kings could offer up to 13.5M annually which is Bogdan's maximum contract eligibility and did offer that much, but Bogdan reject it because (like you said) he is expecting to get more and he will! The thing is that due to the pandemic the cap has been restricted for the next season and salaries are expected to be lesser than expected too, but also, if Bogdan is moved on a S&T, then the Kings can't trade him wherever they have the best return from , but Bogdan has to agree on his new destination! It simply means that if the Kings will have the best offer from (say) the CAVs, Bogdan can refuse and then the S&T can't happen.

                        I also believe that Bogdan will take a bit less than the maximum he can get provided that:
                        1. The team he ends up with is a title contender.
                        2. Bjelica comes with him.

                        Therefore I believe that although Bogdan can get up to 20-22M annually, he will agree on a bit less (17-18M) if the previous mentioned are fulfilled and the Bucks can afford that much + Nemanja's salary.

                        It makes sense, doesn't it? I mean BB is at an age were if he signs a 4 years contract, it may be his last chance to go for an NBA title and then, he is like brothers friends with Nemanja, despite the 3.5 years age difference that separates them.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Buckalis View Post
                          Under the circumstances, I believe that the Kings will want to move Bogdan on a "Sign and trade" agreement so that they won't lose him for nothing on a contract offer from another team that they won't be able to pay.

                          The Kings have of course the right to match any contract offer, but if Bogdan is offered more than 20M or similar, the Kings will be in a very difficult financial position to match that, because they also have Holmes to renew and then Fox expires a season later... Therefore I believe they will have to agree on a S&T for Bogdan.

                          The situation is like this, the Kings could offer up to 13.5M annually which is Bogdan's maximum contract eligibility and did offer that much, but Bogdan reject it because (like you said) he is expecting to get more and he will! The thing is that due to the pandemic the cap has been restricted for the next season and salaries are expected to be lesser than expected too, but also, if Bogdan is moved on a S&T, then the Kings can't trade him wherever they have the best return from , but Bogdan has to agree on his new destination! It simply means that if the Kings will have the best offer from (say) the CAVs, Bogdan can refuse and then the S&T can't happen.

                          I also believe that Bogdan will take a bit less than the maximum he can get provided that:
                          1. The team he ends up with is a title contender.
                          2. Bjelica comes with him.

                          Therefore I believe that although Bogdan can get up to 20-22M annually, he will agree on a bit less (17-18M) if the previous mentioned are fulfilled and the Bucks can afford that much + Nemanja's salary.

                          It makes sense, doesn't it? I mean BB is at an age were if he signs a 4 years contract, it may be his last chance to go for an NBA title and then, he is like brothers friends with Nemanja, despite the 3.5 years age difference that separates them.
                          Yeah, this amount is mentioned in Serbia constantly. 17-18m. I am pretty sure he will leave Sacramento. It's not even about matching the potential offer. If he wants to leave, SAC will let him leave as they heavily overpaid Buddy Hield with a 95m contract so they don't have even will to keep two high volume and high contract players on the same position. It will interesting to see where he will go.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Katastroika View Post
                            Yeah, this amount is mentioned in Serbia constantly. 17-18m. I am pretty sure he will leave Sacramento. It's not even about matching the potential offer. If he wants to leave, SAC will let him leave as they heavily overpaid Buddy Hield with a 95m contract so they don't have even will to keep two high volume and high contract players on the same position. It will interesting to see where he will go.
                            I can see many teams which will be interested on the Bogdan + Nemanja duo, but I think if the Bucks will decide to make an offer, it will be hard for Bogdan to refuse cause out of the title contenders next season, the two LA teams won't be able to pay for both, Denver is unlikely to be able and contend for the title for next (another) season, UTAH has Bojan and Mitchel and therefore Bogdan will have to come from the bench (he won't agree on that) and Dallas can't really construct a competitive offer that the Kings would consider.

                            Out of the Eastern teams, Toronto can't make an offer because they have all their veterans expiring, Heat is like Toronto financially and Boston is over the apron as well as has 3 picks on the draft.

                            Therefore I think that if the Bucks will show interest, it is very probable that he and Nemanja will join Giannis in MIL for the next season.

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