Greatest players you ever saw.

[KateTight]

I like these basketball players:
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Hakeem Olajuwon
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
LeBron James
Kevin Durant

[eshmawi]

I seen in a game live on court, Lebron James. LAST Year vs New York KNICKS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hhsgMDvuSM


Via watching on net tv .. ( from 1990s to this day)
1 - Lebron
2 - Jordan
3 - Shaq
4 - Duncan
5 - Olajuwon
6 - Kobe
7 - Curry
8 - Durant
9 - Nowitzki
10 - Garnett


Avoided ones I read on. but not watched. Kareem, Magic , russell etc.

[Straight forward]

Aside first 2, it goes in random order.

Jordan
James
Stockton
Bryant
Duncan
Pipen
Olajuwon
Leonard
Karl Malone
Klay Thompson (most underrated player in current NBA)

As I matured as a basketball fan, I learned to treat 2 ways players as the best players in the business and overall to value defence. No one dimentional players in my list.

[Erkan12]

Lol because winning popularity contests and being put into the perfect position to put up stats your whole career means you're a winner.

There's no such thing as a respectable commentator these days. Former players sure. But most commentators are just talking heads. With the exception of legends like Marv Alberts.

It's an odd claim to you because you seem to be all about hating on LeBron. But it's not an odd claim. It's how Kyrie has played every single game of his career.

It's an odd claim because no respectable commentator would say Kyrie Irving would damage Boston, and %99 of the supporters would say Kyrie would win the series for Boston. Only %1, whose are usually Lebron fans or Kyrie haters would say Kyrie would damage Boston. I mean it's just crazy to say that. It has nothing to do with hating Lebron, it's the fact. If Boston can carry the series to 7 games against a fully healty Lebron, then a superstar like Kyrie would end the series before even the seventh game. Not even talking about Hayward who is an all-star.

You're watching the current finals right? Why do you think Curry is performing better than previous finals? Because he doesn't need to waste his energy on Kyrie Irving on defense. That's how important Kyrie was.

[CHBB]

Can you show me a single reference for this odd claim? To say that Kyrie Irving would damage Boston instead of helping them to defeat Cleveland is crazy as far as I am concerned.

For your information ; Kyrie is 5 times all-star and 1 time all-nba team and he is just 26 years old. And many respectable commentators stated that he is a superstar.

Lol because winning popularity contests and being put into the perfect position to put up stats your whole career means you're a winner.

There's no such thing as a respectable commentator these days. Former players sure. But most commentators are just talking heads. With the exception of legends like Marv Alberts.

It's an odd claim to you because you seem to be all about hating on LeBron. But it's not an odd claim. It's how Kyrie has played every single game of his career.

[Erkan12]

Lol please. Kyrie would've probably cost his team the series with his stupid, lazy play.

Can you show me a single reference for this odd claim? To say that Kyrie Irving would damage Boston instead of helping them to defeat Cleveland is crazy as far as I am concerned.

For your information ; Kyrie is 5 times all-star and 1 time all-nba team and he is just 26 years old. And many respectable commentators stated that he is a superstar.

[CHBB]

Only because they were in the East and both Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward were injured.

Lol please. Kyrie would've probably cost his team the series with his stupid, lazy play.

[Erkan12]

Without Lebron, Cavs would be a lottery team this year. They are playing in the finals now. I think enough said.

Only because they were in the East and both Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward were injured.

[okanial]

Without Lebron, Cavs would be a lottery team this year. They are playing in the finals now. I think enough said.

[CHBB]

Bynum alone makes this argument moot. He and perimeter defense was the difference between the loss in '08 and the back-to-back wins in '09-10.

[usagre]

The only weak link in this is list is probably Chalmers, and even he was selected to all-rookie team in 2009.

Ray Allen ; 10 times all-star, 2 times all-nba team, and a hall of fame.
Chris Bosh ; 11 times all-star and 1 time all-nba team.
D-Wade; 12 times all-star, 1 time scoring champ, 3 times all defensive team, 8 times all-nba team ; a.k.a Superstar.
You forgot Shane Battier, who was a 2 times all-defensive nba.
And Mike Miller? 1 time best 6.man in nba.



Ron Artest ; 1 time all-star, 4 time all-defensive team, 1 time all-nba team
Fisher; despite being extremely useful ; 0 all-star appearence or any scaling through the nba, not even a single all-defensive team line-up.
Ariza; same. No all-star appearance or any award.
Odom; 1 time best 6.man in nba. That's all.
Pau Gasol; 6 times all-star, 4 times all-nba

The only star who could actually take place in Miami was Gasol, other than that Miami was way better than Lakers overall.

You are being extremely misleading by giving me their career accomplishments and resumes. It’s who they were those years and how they played that is relevant. Dwyane Wade 2012-2013 is not superstar Dwyane Wade from earlier in his career. Bosh was at his best in Toronto when he was the first scoring option and was exposed as a limited player when he became the third option and was forced to do other things. Ray Allen was a year away from retirement. Mike Miller ? He was pretty much a non-factor on those teams. And like I stated earlier Pau Gasol was in his prime and arguably the best big in the game during those years. So yeah on paper if you stack up career resumes it looks lopsided but reality tells a different story. It’s like saying LeBron had help in his fist Cav tenure because he played with Shaq. Or the 2004 Lakers were the greatest team ever assembled because they had Karl Malone and Gary Payton. It doesn’t work that way.

If I am drafting out of those guys at that time, again at that time being critical to what we are discussing here,

Pau is number one, then
2- Wade
3- Bosh
4- Odom
5- Artest

Then after that you are talking a lot lower quality.

[Erkan12]

Upon further review here are the numbers and you tell me.

Heat ‘12-13 key players playoff numbers

Wade. 19.4-4.9-4.6
Bosh. 12.8-7.5-1.1. (Also missed many games due to injury)
Chalmers 10.3-3.0-3.5
Ray Allen only ‘13. 10.2-2.8-1.3

The only weak link in this is list is probably Chalmers, and even he was selected to all-rookie team in 2009.

Ray Allen ; 10 times all-star, 2 times all-nba team, and a hall of fame.
Chris Bosh ; 11 times all-star and 1 time all-nba team.
D-Wade; 12 times all-star, 1 time scoring champ, 3 times all defensive team, 8 times all-nba team ; a.k.a Superstar.
You forgot Shane Battier, who was a 2 times all-defensive nba.
And Mike Miller? 1 time best 6.man in nba.

‘09-‘10 Lakers

Pau Gasol. 18.9-11.0-3.0
Lamar Odom 11.0-8.9-1.9
Ron Artest. ‘10 only. 11.2-4.0-2.1
Trevor Ariza. ‘09 only. 11.3-4.2-2.3
Fisher. 9.2-2.3-2.5
.

Ron Artest ; 1 time all-star, 4 time all-defensive team, 1 time all-nba team
Fisher; despite being extremely useful ; 0 all-star appearence or any scaling through the nba, not even a single all-defensive team line-up.
Ariza; same. No all-star appearance or any award.
Odom; 1 time best 6.man in nba. That's all.
Pau Gasol; 6 times all-star, 4 times all-nba

The only star who could actually take place in Miami was Gasol, other than that Miami was way better than Lakers overall.

[usagre]

Can you tell me;

2012/2013 Miami without Lebron
2009/2010 Lakers without Kobe

Which teams are better?

Upon further review here are the numbers and you tell me.

Heat ‘12-13 key players playoff numbers

Wade. 19.4-4.9-4.6
Bosh. 12.8-7.5-1.1. (Also missed many games due to injury)
Chalmers 10.3-3.0-3.5
Ray Allen only ‘13. 10.2-2.8-1.3

‘09-‘10 Lakers

Pau Gasol. 18.9-11.0-3.0
Lamar Odom 11.0-8.9-1.9
Ron Artest. ‘10 only. 11.2-4.0-2.1
Trevor Ariza. ‘09 only. 11.3-4.2-2.3
Fisher. 9.2-2.3-2.5

And game 7 is also interesting to look at.

Kobe was awful going 6-24 including 0-6 from three and had 23-15-2 and was bailed out by late big shots by Artest
Who had 20 points and Gasol had 19 points and 18 rebounds.

LeBron was brilliant in game 7 going for 37-12-4 and shooting 5 threes.
Wade stepped up for support and had a good game going for 23 and 10 and Battier as well but Bosh and Ray Allen who hit the big shot in game 6 were invisible with a combined 0 points.

[CHBB]

Yeah maybe a little better but both are streaky and Lebron seems to be improving. But that’s not nearly enough to rate him better.

And people seem to conveniently forget that his shooting dipped his last year or so in Cleveland because his body changed and he couldn't really be that G/F anymore. He was still adapting to it almost the entire time he was in Miami, and doing so with a selfish teammate.

And lol no problem. Hope you have a speedy recovery. Had a few nagging injuries in my life but no surgery so far luckily *knocks on wood*

[usagre]

I want to thank Erkan and CHBB for engaging me in some conversation as I am out of commission and resting all day from minor surgery. Not as minor as Kyrie’s nose job but minor nonetheless. It has helped me get through the day.