Has International Basketball Gotten Worse?

[Steadysoul]

Part of the discussion in some(can't really so most) places on the web about why USA Basketball isn't doing better is how international basketball hasn't actually gotten better. The data they use to back this up is so often detached from actual game results. Vox used number of international players drafted as a measure of international talent. 538 arrives to the conclusion by only using stats based on how much Team USA is winning versus how much they should be winning. I'm not entirely sure why they reached a conclusion that isn't at all connected to their data.
I would agree that some of the upper teams appear to be sunseting but I don't think the that's an indication of anything other than people getting old.

[CHBB]

Well your sources say everything. Neither of those sites actually know the sport.

But I have noticed some major international players are becoming much more like American prep school type ones. Ben Simmons and Exum for Australia are two of the best examples of this. Also, the players who come to the US or NBA or NCAA when younger don't always play with the same heart and discipline as in past decades.

[Mindozas]

Answering to thread question - yes. Golden era of internation bball was 00s with peaking or bein' at peak such international powerhouses like Spain, Argentina, Lithuania, Greece, Russia, France, even Germany led by Dirk or China by Yao could make some surprises here and there. Yugoslavia (Serbia/Montenegro) also had great team in the beginning of decade

[Victorious]

Some super teams from a decade ago are surely in their decline. Argentina reached their height between 2002-2008, Yugoslavia 1996-2002, Lithuania 2000-2005, Greece 2005-2009, Spain 2006-2012. Ever since, very few countries reached the level of the aforementioned teams. France could only beat a Spain in decline. Basically a weakened Spain team was the best team in international competition between 2013 and 2016.

The truth is that the above mentioned teams had an excellent set of players unrivaled by most teams today. Bodiroga, Jasikevicus, Ginobili, Prigioni, Papaloukas, Diamantidis, Spanoulis, Navarro, Gasol. Just to name a few. I don't think that current teams have many players like that. Aside from the ones that are still active and close to their expiration date. Only Teodosic comes close. Bogdanovic is no Bodiroga or Ginobili. Saric is no Gasol.

However I think things might change until the next Olympics.

[CHBB]

They aren't as good but they are more athletic. There might be less great prospects but the ones there are these days are much more physically able to stick in the US and be complete players.

[guilherme.rcf]

Some super teams from a decade ago are surely in their decline. Argentina reached their height between 2002-2008, Yugoslavia 1996-2002, Lithuania 2000-2005, Greece 2005-2009, Spain 2006-2012. Ever since, very few countries reached the level of the aforementioned teams. France could only beat a Spain in decline. Basically a weakened Spain team was the best team in international competition between 2013 and 2016.

The truth is that the above mentioned teams had an excellent set of players unrivaled by most teams today. Bodiroga, Jasikevicus, Ginobili, Prigioni, Papaloukas, Diamantidis, Spanoulis, Navarro, Gasol. Just to name a few. I don't think that current teams have many players like that. Aside from the ones that are still active and close to their expiration date. Only Teodosic comes close. Bogdanovic is no Bodiroga or Ginobili. Saric is no Gasol.

However I think things might change until the next Olympics.

100% agreed.

It is easy to realize that. Just try to make an all world team today and the one we would have in 2002-2012.

[Dtown]

Yes, but it's not in permanent decline or anything. I feel there are a number of teams that can become elite over the next four years.

[Mindozas]

It would be great to have decade like that in the future, but it won't happen. Even if by some kind of accident we'll have the same number of such high caliber players/stars, which I don't believe in, simply we don't have such number of tournaments where they could play in + there's no such dedication to NTs like before, when players were skipping NT tournaments only if injured. I'd be happy if we'd even stay at current level, I'm not even dreaming to have smth like 00s or even 90s

[Oly_fan]

I think most of top picks in this draft were foreign players. This talk is mostly due to rose-tinted glasses.

Argentina will probably not get a new Ginobili soon, neither will Spain find a new Gasol immediately (Lebron is 31 iirc and neither will the US just find a new Lebron lying around).
Other players will come about and become the next generation's leaders. Wiggins, Simmons, Antetokounmpo are all international prospects.

You can't say Bodiroga or Jasikevicius are better than any of the young prospects we have now because we haven't seen these young prospects mature yet.
Diamantidis and Spanoulis both played for small greek clubs until the age of 23-24.

[thespywhozaggedme]

They aren't as good but they are more athletic. There might be less great prospects but the ones there are these days are much more physically able to stick in the US and be complete players.

I'm not as politically correct as you so I will say exactly what you mean to say; there are more black international players, i.e. Adentekoumpo, Simmons, Exum, Gobert etc.

[CoachZ]

I'm not as politically correct as you so I will say exactly what you mean to say; there are more black international players, i.e. Adentekoumpo, Simmons, Exum, Gobert etc.

Not really. It's an issue of training and preparation. Many of the best physical training practices have been transferred from USA to the rest of Europe and now the athletes are much more explosive and prepared for NBA game. So the athletic gap is smaller than before.

[CHBB]

I'm not as politically correct as you so I will say exactly what you mean to say; there are more black international players, i.e. Adentekoumpo, Simmons, Exum, Gobert etc.

Literally nothing to do with what I said. I'm white and I'm as athletic as anybody I know. I'm not alone there, either.

It's about how you train.

[CHBB]

Not really. It's an issue of training and preparation. Many of the best physical training practices have been transferred from USA to the rest of Europe and now the athletes are much more explosive and prepared for NBA game. So the athletic gap is smaller than before.

Exactly. Thank you.

[thespywhozaggedme]

Literally nothing to do with what I said. I'm white and I'm as athletic as anybody I know. I'm not alone there, either.

It's about how you train.

PC nonsense. To deny that blacks overall are better athletes than whites is denial and indoctrination at its worst.

[CHBB]

PC nonsense. To deny that blacks overall are better athletes than whites is denial and indoctrination at its worst.

Or maybe I just know better than you do having grown up around and played against both. I've known white boys who aren't even 6 ft that can dunk regularly.