Semifinals: USA vs. Argentina

[NorCal]

I'm talking about staying humble and not humiliating your opponent. I have this stance with any team. Carmelo shooting another three from way behind just to prove what, he can score? That Argentina is too low level and he can do whatever he wants? This is what I'm talking about. Also bragging and beating your chest when you're 20+. What for? No team should disrespect the other this way. They should be happy about winning and being superior by far, not trampling on the other team.
I'm sorry, but no team/player behaving like this can ever get my respect.

Hey Rik,

I don't have a problem with Carmelo taking that three when he's on fire, simply from a game standpoint of "anything can happen". I've seen some uber-amazing comebacks in my life and even when the USA was up by 28 and then Argentina went on an 8-0 or 10-0 run I thought "get Lebron back in there". In single elimination games you can't hold anything back and if a guy like Carmelo is on fire, heck, take the shot and strengthen the lead.

That seems to be a totally different and separate point from the whole disrespect thing. For instance, when Carmelo yelled "Get the fuck out" or whatever he yelled on that rebound, that should not be a part of the sport. It doesn't bother me that much since I grew up playing with some guys that believe that acts like that are simply 'part of the game'. I wish it wasn't a part of the game, personally, I've never liked the 'macho' side of basketball, talking trash and putting down your opponents. Some of it is playful but sometimes it gets taken over the line and becomes disrespectful, IMO.

The chest thumping may look ugly to foreigners (and I'm not a big fan of it either as it seems to scream "look at me!!!!" instead of celebrating the lead or the great pass that got you the shot with your teammates) but it is not as ugly of a thing to Americans, I think it is a cultural thing. Kind of like when Chris Paul got mad at Pau Gasol during the NBA season because Pau touched Chris' head after a play. In American culture it is not normal for a man to touch another man's head unless he is intending to disrespect him in some way.

[Jokinen]

Can someone with more knowledge tell me how Argentina is doing on the youth end? Are they going to be completely gone from the elite or are they just taking a break for a bit before a new generation comes in?

I like to think that we are taking a break like you said. Threre is some young and interesting players comming like Gabriel Deck (top scorer of the 2012 U17WC), and Marcos Delia (6'10 PF) who played at the Nike Hoop Summit, Franco Giorgetti (6'9" SF) and Patricio Garino (6'7" G/F will play for George Washington U this year), this last three kids played in the argentinian U19 team that reached semifinals at the U19 World Championship last year. And there is some other born in 95, 96 and 97 with good potential but they are too young to tell.

I don´t think we have anyone as good as Manu comming, tho.

[Raze Lupin]

Hey Rik,

I don't have a problem with Carmelo taking that three when he's on fire, simply from a game standpoint of "anything can happen". I've seen some uber-amazing comebacks in my life and even when the USA was up by 28 and then Argentina went on an 8-0 or 10-0 run I thought "get Lebron back in there". In single elimination games you can't hold anything back and if a guy like Carmelo is on fire, heck, take the shot and strengthen the lead.


That seems to be a totally different and separate point from the whole disrespect thing. For instance, when Carmelo yelled "Get the fuck out" or whatever he yelled on that rebound, that should not be a part of the sport.

1) I totally agree! Argentina was still in this game. They shouldn't be under estimated.

2)Melo yelling "Get the fuck out" and being a little macho is mild. Its even more mild when put in the context of the events that happened the last time USA played Argentina. Remember Melo was hit in the testicles. Male bravado is a part of all the most popular sports in the world Especially sports that involve contact. I think it interesting how people pick and choose what is offensive. Then they hold players accountable to some ridiculous and hypocritical standard. many My fellow Americans are just as hard on our players as foreigners.

3)I also agree with you that much is lost in translation. Ruk believed Melo hitting a three during a competitive game was offensive enough to turn away. Yet I wonder did he turn away when Melo was hit in the groin. I've watched international sports for years. Many of the celebratory acts players do could be seen as a displays of arrogance. The last two USA NT are mildly behaved by international standards. The Kiwis do a traditional dance that shows strength and is meant to intimidate. Players cross themselves, yell, chest bump, slide on the ground, remove clothing, taunt, do choreographed dances. Again USA players are held to a ridiculous, hypocritical standard.

Speaking of clemency or a mercy rule. Did you watch the Euro 2012?? The final game was Italy vs Spain. Spain beat then 4-0. Italy looked like the weaker side the entire match. Was it necessary for Spain to score that 4th and final gold? Those are rhetorical questions of course. The score doesn't matter. Let the men play it out like men. Like someone else said its whatever.

[Federoy]

Hey Rik,

I don't have a problem with Carmelo taking that three when he's on fire, simply from a game standpoint of "anything can happen". I've seen some uber-amazing comebacks in my life and even when the USA was up by 28 and then Argentina went on an 8-0 or 10-0 run I thought "get Lebron back in there". In single elimination games you can't hold anything back and if a guy like Carmelo is on fire, heck, take the shot and strengthen the lead.

That seems to be a totally different and separate point from the whole disrespect thing. For instance, when Carmelo yelled "Get the fuck out" or whatever he yelled on that rebound, that should not be a part of the sport. It doesn't bother me that much since I grew up playing with some guys that believe that acts like that are simply 'part of the game'. I wish it wasn't a part of the game, personally, I've never liked the 'macho' side of basketball, talking trash and putting down your opponents. Some of it is playful but sometimes it gets taken over the line and becomes disrespectful, IMO.

The chest thumping may look ugly to foreigners (and I'm not a big fan of it either as it seems to scream "look at me!!!!" instead of celebrating the lead or the great pass that got you the shot with your teammates) but it is not as ugly of a thing to Americans, I think it is a cultural thing. Kind of like when Chris Paul got mad at Pau Gasol during the NBA season because Pau touched Chris' head after a play. In American culture it is not normal for a man to touch another man's head unless he is intending to disrespect him in some way.

Your point is well taken about the trash talking and woofing. Such behavior can quickly escalate out of control if your opponent takes it too personally. True story, when I was younger (a lot younger!), some friends, my brother and I got into a huge brawl with some guys at an indoor gym. We were playing 21 against a group strangers, and about five minutes into the game they started trash talking and playing physical. My brother took exception to some of the physical play, so he gets face-to-face with one of their guys and suddenly all hell broke loose. It took the gym's entire security team to separate all of us ridiculous, bawling teenagers! Certainly, there's a cautionary tale in that story about how trash talk can antagonize emotions that lead to verbal or physical confrontations.

But on the flip side, the NBA game, as with most leagues, is also about the "game within the game". Beating your opponent psychologically is as much a component to winning as the physical or strategic aspect. It's an age old tactic; get your opponent's emotions high to throw him/her off their game. So the woofing, chest-beating and histrionics becomes an extension of oneself just as performing a lay-up or backdoor cut is. Basketball is definitely not a gentlemen's game!