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Quarter-finals: Russia vs Lithuania

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  • #91
    Originally posted by auris1 View Post
    thirdly,i do not understand people who started to hate jasikevicius.
    it was catch 22 from the very beginning for him this year.
    If he had declined playing for NT team,imagine reaction of the press - traitor etc..
    So he played - his shot vs Puerto rico was crucial to get us to London- how about that?Do you,Lietuvis,remember this?
    I agree 100%. While he played poorly today, Jasikevičius deserves nothing but respect for the job he's done with Team Lietuva over the years. He ranks right up there with Sabonis as one of the top two Lithuanian basketball players of all time in my book.

    Originally posted by auris1 View Post
    Jasikevicius,Kaukenas,Broliai and Javtokas,plus probably Songaila will and should against/or willingly retire.
    I'm not so sure about either Kaukėnas or Javtokas retiring though. Kaukėnas was Lietuva's best player today. And without Javtokas the team defence was clearly inadequate this year. The younger centers can learn a lot from Javtokas.

    Originally posted by auris1 View Post
    Songaila was our best player in this tournament.
    I agree! Songaila played really well when called upon to do so. If only a couple more fellows had played as well as Songaila did today. It would have been a different game.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 08-08-2012, 07:36 PM.

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    • #92
      Well, I'm fine with the result but not with the way we played this game. Too much stupid turnovers, too much nervousness and suddenly our defense was constanrtly shifting from beastly form where Liths don't know what to do to complete lacklustre performance, f.e., leaving open players on the 3pt line and watching if they can nail the uncontested three. And don't forget that today there was a player playing for Lithuania in the red uniform - Alexei Shved. How much I hate this bastard! I'm extremely happy that this shit of a player would go to NBA where he really belongs - basketball IQ of neanderthal man or lower, king of turnovers and a player with NBAish star mentality who makes one contested shot after another when they aren't falling at all, 0/4 from the ft line is jast an icing on the cake. Shved (no matter his jump shot ability and decent dribbling) is a shitty player overall but this summer in NT he is simple hideous. He really needs to be beaten badly for this kind of performances. I really wish not to see this glamour bastard ever playing in Russian NT jerseys.
      Surprisingly enough the best for Lithuania were the good old Songaila and Kaukenas with Kleiza (and Saras - which is a not big surprise for me) playing awfully - I made some critical comments towards them both, especially towards the first, but now I see that this summer their individual talent, experience and understanding of the game were enough to be very helpful for the Lithuanian NT despite their obvious physical limitations. Mantas was contesting shittiness of Sharas level of play in the first half but compensate for it with great performance later hitting some crucial three-pointers and making his partners playing faster, harder and more reasonably. Overall, Lithuania played one of their better games here despite the fact that our team is definitely stronger and better organised play-wise and the fact that it all was close and the game result was decided almost down to the wire is another proof that Lithuania is a solid team.
      Kleiza is right in his comments after the game - among teams in the Olympiad Lithuania is 6th to 8th (alongside Brazil and Asutralia) so their result is pretty logical and I think that Lithuanian fans must not curse Kemzura or tear one's hair, they have some great overperformances in the past, now it's time for the performance adequate to their strength. And giving a tough fight to the two best teams here (with unconvincing Spain and old Argentina I think we are the second team strength-wise on this Tournament) is a good sign considering Team Lietuva's potential and having in mind that Valanciunas must play better having some experience gained and Motiejunas with Gecevicius can definitely upgrade this team's level of play.
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      • #93
        Originally posted by Terrorizer View Post
        And don't forget that today there was a player playing for Lithuania in the red uniform - Alexei Shved. How much I hate this bastard! I'm extremely happy that this shit of a player would go to NBA where he really belongs - basketball IQ of neanderthal man or lower, king of turnovers and a player with NBAish star mentality who makes one contested shot after another when they aren't falling at all, 0/4 from the ft line is jast an icing on the cake. Shved (no matter his jump shot ability and decent dribbling) is a shitty player overall but this summer in NT he is simple hideous. He really needs to be beaten badly for this kind of performances. I really wish not to see this glamour bastard ever playing in Russian NT jerseys.
        Yes, I really enjoyed seeing Shved play today. How he got out of David Blatt's doghouse and onto the court though is another story.

        Russia's best players, Kirilenko and Mozgov, were the ones who made the difference today.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Hepcat View Post
          Yes. Alienating half the population of a country is never a good thing, particularly if you have any political ambitions.
          Thats what Kurtis is.

          He never beats around the bush. Is straight to the point and honest guy and thats not the best trait for anyone trying go somewhere higher.

          He is also very strict. I remember how Rytas once have beaten Sakalai by 47 points and all players were not allowed to leave the court and were forced to do 50 pushups each right after the game (with the camera's still being on). The reason was that Kurtinaitis told them to win by 50 and they failed by 3 points. If he were to become next oach he might as well be the most strict coach in our national team history (though I think the best coach is still Kazlauskas).

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Hepcat View Post
            Yes, I really enjoyed seeing Shved play today. How he got out of David Blatt's doghouse and onto the court though is another story.
            I think that he can get some national medal in Lithuania for his attempts to put you into the 6th successive Olympic semis Luckily, he wasn't completely successful.

            Originally posted by Hepcat View Post
            Russia's best players, Kirilenko and Mozgov, were the ones who made the difference today.
            Maybe, but Fridzon (a great player, btw) and Khryapa weren't that bad either and even Monya hit some important triple shots. So it was more of a team collective effort than some individual heroics. And I'm happy with that.
            2013/2014 IBN Euroleague Prediction Game Winner

            Thrash 'till Death!

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Terrorizer View Post
              So it was more of a team collective effort than some individual heroics. And I'm happy with that.
              I would have preferred to see some more individual heroics from Shved myself.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
                He is also very strict. I remember how Rytas once have beaten Sakalai by 47 points and all players were not allowed to leave the court and were forced to do 50 pushups each right after the game (with the camera's still being on). The reason was that Kurtinaitis told them to win by 50 and they failed by 3 points. If he were to become next oach he might as well be the most strict coach in our national team history (though I think the best coach is still Kazlauskas).
                What?! Sakalai is the team I like in Vilnius!

                Coaches like that are not a long-term proposition though. They're capable of turning underperforming teams around in the short-term, but after two or three years they burn the players out and kill their spirit. I'm not sure what would happen at the national team level though since the team is only together for a short period. But I'm afraid he might discourage players from coming out for the team.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Hepcat View Post
                  I'm not so sure about either Kaukėnas or Javtokas retiring though. Kaukėnas was Lietuva's best player today. And without Javtokas the team defence was clearly inadequate this year. The younger centers can learn a lot from Javtokas.
                  Well,Javtokas has been struggling with injuries for the last 2-3 seasons.
                  I do not think he is capable to play for NT just for this very same reason.Being 32 doesn't help his case either.
                  Or,he should not be considered for Nt for the reasons mentioned above.
                  Same goes with Kaukenas
                  The guy will be 37 any time soon now.
                  Draw the line. that's all.
                  And let that be a lesson to you all. Nobody beats Zalgiris 17 times in a row.

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                  • #99
                    Good luck watching those "neanderthals" with star mentality terrorizing poor mother Russia in finals Hope Putler don't beat Blatt and whole Russian team with his stick too badly after they lose final by 30 points.
                    Originally posted by Terrorizer View Post
                    I'm extremely happy that this shit of a player would go to NBA where he really belongs - basketball IQ of neanderthal man or lower, king of turnovers and a player with NBAish star mentality who makes one contested shot after another when they aren't falling at all, 0/4 from the ft line is jast an icing on the cake. Shved (no matter his jump shot ability and decent dribbling) is a shitty player overall but this summer in NT he is simple hideous. He really needs to be beaten badly for this kind of performances.

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                    • Originally posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
                      Thats what Kurtis is.

                      He never beats around the bush. Is straight to the point and honest guy and thats not the best trait for anyone trying go somewhere higher.

                      He is also very strict. I remember how Rytas once have beaten Sakalai by 47 points and all players were not allowed to leave the court and were forced to do 50 pushups each right after the game (with the camera's still being on). The reason was that Kurtinaitis told them to win by 50 and they failed by 3 points. If he were to become next oach he might as well be the most strict coach in our national team history (though I think the best coach is still Kazlauskas).
                      Why by 50? Would it have given them advantage or something? Or did they do something bad to arouse the wrath of Kurtis?

                      Jasikevicius,Kaukenas,Broliai and Javtokas,plus probably Songaila will and should against/or willingly retire.
                      I'd keep Songaila for emergencies. But if there will be a younger, better F/C than him, I'd pick that player instead.

                      Songaila consistently did a good job in this tournament. Kaukenas, Jasikevicius were too inconsistent and too slow. Javtokas, if in shape, would be needed for physical defense. The rest of the players (except for Jasaitis) would need to be under 30 to play.

                      This year: 4 players over 30, 8 players under 30.
                      Next year: 2 players over 30, 10 players under 30.

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                      • Originally posted by macleopard13 View Post
                        Why by 50? Would it have given them advantage or something? Or did they do something bad to arouse the wrath of Kurtis?
                        Because you need a challange. Against weaker teams in LKL you always know that unless something truly extraordinary happens they will win. Kurtinaitis likes to make it more challanging like the point difference or for example in one game against Marijampole Suduva Rytas were allowed to let Marijampole score 45 in a game and with 4:36 minutes to go in the last quarter Marijampole had a three and the result was 44, and boy you should have seen how every Rytas player were dying on court to not allow that single point. And the succeeded Marijampole couldnt score a single point during those 4 minutes straight and Kurtinaitis had to take whole team to a restaurant (him paying all bills of course).

                        Kurtinaitis loved doing such challanges like that. The result was that Rytas never lost against a weaker opponent and usually won by an impressive margin.


                        But he is very strict. Kemzura looks like a kitten compared to him.

                        On the other hand, Kurtinaitis differently from Kemzura is not afraid to play young players heavyy minutes. It was Kurtinaitis who made Gecevicius a leader of the team though he was still very young, he gave 17 year old Jonas in his debut game 25 minutes and he was constantly using young Buterlevicius and use him well (something that coaches after him were never able to do).

                        Kemzura in 2010 was forced to play with young core but when he has a choice he prefers going for more experienced players while Kurtinaitis is much more daring coach in that regard.

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                        • I too want to try Kurtinaitis,but some people just forgets some elements and are picturing only white (kurtinaitis) and black (kemuzra).Its just not right....They remember rytas coaching valanciunas,gecevicius,uleb cup.
                          But how do you think whos idea was to bring mazutis in 2009 to presure the guards? same situation with dainys in rytas team? yeah it was not butuatas idea,but kurtinaitisa.Are you sure kurtinaitis assitanst wont be butautas? they are working alot with each other,rimas went to chimki and give job to butautas in latvia team and so on.Do you want to see Kurtinaitis and butautas duet on our coaching staff again ? I just want to see one Rimas..They are saying his not affraid to play youngster i really not sure is correct.In rytas team he didnt have anything to lose because rytas didnt have alot of strong players,so he was playing everything he got there.I agree he got the best he could out of that team.But in national team situation is little bit different...Remember 2007? they without camp named 12 players and only made one substation maciulis in slanina out.But i dont remember any youngsters in 2007-2008-2009 teams that got alot playing time.I even remember coaches try to convince stombergas to comeback to natiuonal team at age of 34.I dont understand why some people are reapeting than kuirtinaitis will work only with younger players,he said many times in press THE BEST PLAYERS MUST PLAY...Are you sure he wont bring lavrinovic brothers or petravicius to a team for example ?

                          I always felt national team coach shuold stay 3-4 years and then you have change it,because players are not hearing him anymore after some years.I see only 3 candidates 1.Kazlauskas 2.Kurtinatis 3.Leave Kemzura .But most likely Sabas gonna take Kurtis.
                          Last edited by Shawshank; 08-09-2012, 09:41 AM.

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                          • Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
                            I too want to try Kurtinaitis,but some people just forgets some elements and are picturing only white (kurtinaitis) and black (kemuzra).Its just not right....They remember rytas coaching valanciunas,gecevicius,uleb cup.
                            But how do you think whos idea was to bring mazutis in 2009 to presure the guards? same situation with dainys in rytas team? yeah it was not butuatas idea,but kurtinaitisa.Are you sure kurtinaitis assitanst wont be butautas? they are working alot with each other,rimas went to chimki and give job to butautas in latvia team and so on.Do you want to see Kurtinaitis and butautas duet on our coaching staff again ? I just want to see one Rimas..They are saying his not affraid to play youngster i really not sure is correct.In rytas team he didnt have anything to lose because rytas didnt have alot of strong players,so he was playing everything he got there.I agree he got the best he could out of that team.But in national team situation is little bit different...Remember 2007? they without camp named 12 players and only made one substation maciulis in slanina out.But i dont remember any youngsters in 2007-2008-2009 teams that got alot playing time.I even remember coaches try to convince stombergas to comeback to natiuonal team at age of 34.I dont understand why some people are reapeting than kuirtinaitis will work only with younger players,he said many times in press THE BEST PLAYERS MUST PLAY...Are you sure he wont bring lavrinovic brothers or petravicius to a team for example ?

                            I always felt national team coach shuold stay 3-4 years and then you have change it,because players are not hearing him anymore after some years.I see only 3 candidates 1.Kazlauskas 2.Kurtinatis 3.Leave Kemzura .But most likely Sabas gonna take Kurtis.
                            Kurtinaitis was not the head-coach but an assistant coach. You can hardly blame him for Maciulis not playing or over benching Kalnietis those were Butautas decisions. Do not overestate the assistants coach role. He can suggest, maybe he did suggest playing Maciulis or Kalnietis, how do you know? The did not play but it was Butautas decision, not Kurtinaitis. There is a reason why there was one head-coach and not two at the same time because the final decision had to take head-coach despite multiple assistants all around him (Kurtinaitis was only one of the five assitants on that team).

                            Kurtinaitis did suggest Mazutis and he was bad but in all honesty he did look better during preparation games than Prekevicius so taking him in looked logical at that point, but Dainys? I actually liked Dainys. He was pretty fine in those minutes he got and he was even Rytas leader in preseason games. I was very fine with him taking Dainys, I dont see why you see that it was bad one? In my opinion it was actually a good decision.
                            Last edited by Darknemo2000; 08-09-2012, 10:05 AM.

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                            • Originally posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
                              Kurtinaitis was not the head-coach but an assistant coach. You can hardly blame him for Maciulis not playing or over benching Kalnietis those were Butautas decisions. Do not overestate the assistants coach role. He can suggest, maybe he did suggest playing Maciulis or Kalnietis, how do you know? The did not play but it was Butautas decision, not Kurtinaitis. There is a reason why there was one head-coach and not two at the same time because the final decision had to take head-coach despite multiple assistants all around him (Kurtinaitis was only one of the five assitants on that team).

                              Kurtinaitis did suggest Mazutis and he was bad but in all honesty he did look better during preparation games than Prekevicius so taking him in looked logical at that point, but Dainys? I actually liked Dainys. He was pretty fine in those minutes he got and he was even Rytas leader in preseason games. I was very fine with him taking Dainys, I dont see why you see that it was bad one? In my opinion it was actually a good decision.

                              Ofcourse all what was bad it was butautas,all what was good in 2009 its was kurtinaitis aha .I remember very clearly butautas many time came to kurtinaitis and were asking in game progress what to do...They both were discusiing what players use and what not its 99% .It wasnt than butautas decided and thats all.4 year ago Kurtinaitis were very skeptical about kalnietis in one intervew.Kurtinaitis and butautas never liked kalnietis,they always leave him on the beanch even in youths championship..they better use 2007 gustas 2008 prekevicius and 2009 mazutis....They took him,just because there werent anything more to take at that position and still he sitted on the bench.But when he played 10minutes against spain,he did more that mazutis in all tournament manage to do.Dont be naive ofcourse its was both coaches after discusions decisions,what player use and what not to.But ofcourse kurtinaitis now have more experience and are better coach,but all im saying dont picture black and white BECAUSE ITS NOT TRUE! Dainys isnt just Lrytas team material thats all. So if they though mazutis can help national team,dainys rytas,hmm so maybe they will think that some kind lkl player can be starting player for national team no ? Look at the 2005 U-20 teams of lithuania,i have feeling from t here gonna come more suprises,because butautas and kurtinaitis coach those teams.Players like kavaliaukas,alijevas,jomantas,babrauskas can have a chance again to wear national team yersey,but im just guesing

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                              • Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
                                Ofcourse all what was bad it was butautas,all what was good in 2009 its was kurtinaitis aha .I remember very clearly butautas many time came to kurtinaitis and were asking in game progress what to do...They both were discusiing what players use and what not its 99% .It wasnt than butautas decided and thats all.4 year ago Kurtinaitis were very skeptical about kalnietis in one intervew.Kurtinaitis and butautas never liked kalnietis,they always leave him on the beanch even in youths championship..they better use 2007 gustas 2008 prekevicius and 2009 mazutis....They took him,just because there werent anything more to take at that position and still he sitted on the bench.But when he played 10minutes against spain,he did more that mazutis in all tournament manage to do.Dont be naive ofcourse its was both coaches after discusions decisions,what player use and what not to.But ofcourse kurtinaitis now have more experience and are better coach,but all im saying dont picture black and white BECAUSE ITS NOT TRUE! Dainys isnt just Lrytas team material thats all. So if they though mazutis can help national team,dainys rytas,hmm so maybe they will think that some kind lkl player can be starting player for national team no ? Look at the 2005 U-20 teams of lithuania,i have feeling from t here gonna come more suprises,because butautas and kurtinaitis coach those teams.Players like kavaliaukas,alijevas,jomantas,babrauskas can have a chance again to wear national team yersey,but im just guesing
                                Sometimes you just have to give them a shot. Petravicius was literally unknown until he was 27 years old was noticed and given a shot.

                                Sometimes you have to take a risk and take those mediocre players in hopes you can find someone better, sometimes you end up with Mazutis, sometimes you end up with Petravicius.

                                Kurtinaitis was sceptical about Kalnietis and he had a good last game in that tournament and had a great 2010 but looking back at Kalnietis career can you honestly say that Kurtinaitis was completely wrong about him? A lot of the sings he said about Kalnietis are actually valid even to this very day.

                                He is right now our main PG but it doesnt mean he is a good PG.

                                One of the reason why Saras tired so much out was because Kalnietis sucked and Saras had to play more time than he initially expected to.

                                Kalnietis dribble is terrible. Absolutely terrible. Thats what Kurtinaitis said about Kalnietis and he was and is right. Pocius and Seibutis are better dribbling the court than him, as Kalnietis dribbles the ball way too high. He has a very inconsistent shot, one of the reasons why opponents leave him space to shoot from distance - you he can hit a couple but miss 6 at that just as well. Its worthy to take a gamble on such player.

                                Kurtinaitis thought he cant shoot at all, he wasnt right in that aspect, but three years ago Kalnietis was worser at shooting than he is now, and even now you dont want to see him shoot even wide-open.

                                Dainys was fine. What the hell you are talking about? Did you even watch Rytas games? They took Dainys as the 3rd PG, and he was good at it. 3rd PG. Not a leader, not even a 2nd PG, a 3rd. They did not want to take Kelys as a PG because 3PG just doesnt get much time and young players need to spend their time on court, not on the bench. Dainys was for that. he played 5-8 minutes per game, sometimes in LKL he had more in bigger games less or none and he was fine with that and was ok while playing. Thats what you ask from roleplay players like Dainys.

                                I was perfectly fine with him playing as he was and he certainly was better Rytas material than say Prekevicius or Kestutis Marciulionis.

                                Jomantas was fine. Sometimes Zalgiris fans are too stupid to remember that Jomantas was actually one of the leaders of the Maciulis, Kleiza generation. It was natural to try him, just of course not at PG position. He did however stopped Navarro in the last game against Spain but whenever he went off the court Navarro went on bombing us to death. It was a funny game in that retrospect.

                                Some Zalgiris fans point at statistics and say Jomantas played too much forgetting that there were such situations like against Spain where he was NT's best defender and had to stay on one or another player so that he doesnt start lightening it up.

                                Nowadays it doesnt look like Jomantas on NT would be a great idea but back then it was fine. It was like trying Ulanovas from our U-20 team. After all Jomantas back in his youth NT days was one of the leaders together with Kleiza and Maciulis (he could score back then) he was doing fine on men basketball, so much that Sagadin put a young Jomantas in the starting line-up due to his defense. But that is what probably ruined Jomantas.

                                Since back in sagadin days he realized that he can get plenty of playing time by just defending and completely threw out his scoring and focused on his D. Nowadays its hard to believe that Jomantas in youth teams had 20 and more point games or in Siauliai scoring 27 or 29 was natural for him.

                                And that 2009 years would have not been nearly as bad for him if they did not try to make a PG out of Sf. For Kurtinaitis it worked with Eidson (it was under Kurtinaitis and not under Sireika or Trifunovic that Eidson started to shine) but never with Jomantas.

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