Best national teams for FIBA Top 15

[PRSURF]

11. Puerto Rico
-2004 Olympic team
-1990 World Championship team
-1994 Goodwill Games/World Championship team

he '04 team, with their incredible win in the warm-ups against the US, was clearly the best PR team. Arroyo, "Piculin" Ortiz, Casiano, Dalmau, Hatton...great individuals who learned how to play on a team for one single tournament. If the PR players could do that every year, they would be amongst the top 5 national teams every year.

That game not was a warm up, that was a real official game bro, the first victory over a NBA team in the history of the Olympics games.

[Federoy]

The '88 team was far superior to the other teams, but it is disingenuous to call them "Russians." That's an easy argument to make for a very complicated situation. If it were genuine to call '88 "Russian," I would say '88 and '85 ('85 is almost getting into the "pre-modern" era, though) are the best, but the '07 Russian team was much better than '94. The '94 team just wasn't very good. They didn't deserve the Silver. There were a half-dozen better teams that didn't get the lucky breaks Russia had in the draw. Anyhow, it's an easy team to pick on.

That's a fair point. Politically it's difficult to argue that modern-day Russia and the former Soviet Union are one and the same. That 88 Soviet team featured more than just Russian players, so there is room for dispute if one wants to press the issue. However, I was trying to bridge the gap between those great Soviet teams of yester year and today's Russian national team. What does remain true is that the seat of government from the Soviet era (Moscow) remains for modern-day Russia, so on that basis, the republic still has a political connection to the past. The same can be said about Yugoslavia; past teams had Croats, Montenegrians, Bosnians and Serbs playing for the national team, so technically, modern-day Serbia is removed from its past also but its political seat (Belgrade) still remains.

Actually, the 2007/2008 Russian team didn't impress me at all. I thought their run through the 2007 Eurobasket final was a bit of a fluke, and their disappointing Olympic performance was proof of that. After recently reviewing the 1994 team on tape, they were actually well drilled and performed great as a unit. I think you're underrating them a bit by suggesting they didn't deserve silver. They only lost two games, both to the US (by only 17 points in pool play and 46 in the title game). Also, they beat Croatia in the semi-finals, which most "experts" believed was the second best team in the tournament.

At any rate, your thoughts are much appreciated.

[Mindozas]

This is somewhat controversial considering '92 "only" got the Silver and was demolished by Team USA, but that was a fantastic team. Nevertheless, I think it's an accurate ranking.

Don't know if I understood you correctly, but actualy Lithuania won the bronze in Barcelona'92 Maybe you mean silver, because the gold was reserved for USA already before the tournament, so other teams were participating only for silver as their top achievement, then it's ok As for semifinal, where Liths lost against "Dream Team" badly, to be fair, our team didn't try too hard, cause there were no chances to beat US what so ever. We just tried to keep our freshness before bronze medal game.
Regarding Liths best teams, IMO 1992 was the best, but f.e. our team in Athens'04 Olympics IMO was even better in comparing with the team, which won EC'03, I mean more matured as a team or players individualy, especialy Macas. That team was just perfect in every single way and one game spoiled it all, that semi against Italy and their terrific shooting, if I'm not wrong they hit 18 3pts shots out of 28 or smth. The one of the most heart breaking games ever. I believe that Lithuania might win the gold back then. In group games we beat USA and played IMO one the best games in our bball history against Greece (atleast for a 3 qtrs it was the bball that was simply perfect). Still 4th place was simply undeserved and not fair place for that team. It was really painful to watch that semi even now
Another LT NT that was great, but also one game took away from us probably atleast a medal, it was in 1999 EC. Sabas, Karnisovas + Zalgiris players, who won the Euroleague title that year, also young Saras. I remember how we beat Italy, which became champs later on, in second round of the competition, the win was so easy and great. And then came 1/4 and Spain... Poor game for Sabas and team generaly, only Saras few 3pts shots gave us hopes at the end, but still in last spaniards possesion we made a foul and Spain with free throws took the win by 2 points, Saras' last shot was missed. There was another big dissapointment in our bball history, neverthless we just trashed Turkey and Russia later and won a ticket to Sidney's Olympics.
So there were atleast two teams, which IMO could make it to Top3 if they were more succesfull, cause bball's quality and the players, which played back then were great.

[mvblair]

Actually, the 2007/2008 Russian team didn't impress me at all. I thought their run through the 2007 Eurobasket final was a bit of a fluke

Yes, it was a fluke, but it was an amazing fluke. It was like the Miami Heat in '06. I really don't think they were the best team that year, but they played amazingly well that final month and a half or so. Same thing with Russia in '07.

...and their disappointing Olympic performance was proof of that.

Yes.

After recently reviewing the 1994 team on tape, they were actually well drilled and performed great as a unit. I think you're underrating them a bit by suggesting they didn't deserve silver. They only lost two games, both to the US (by only 17 points in pool play and 46 in the title game). Also, they beat Croatia in the semi-finals, which most "experts" believed was the second best team in the tournament.

I simply haven't watched the tournament besides the Gold Medal game, so I probably shouldn't be commenting.

Don't know if I understood you correctly, but actualy Lithuania won the bronze in Barcelona'92

Yes, I meant to say "Bronze."

[skypacer]

In my opinion, Team Russia is underestimated.

[Jokinen]

1. Argentina
-2004 Olympic team
-2002 World Championship team
-2008 Olympic team

About Argentina I think that the 2002 WC team played the most beautiful basketball, even better than 2004, Manu got injured in Semifinals and you know, that last call... they couldn't get the championship loosing in OT against Bodiroga and Co. but anyway IMO that was the best Argentina of alltime

[mvblair]

About Argentina I think that the 2002 WC team played the most beautiful basketball, even better than 2004, Manu got injured in Semifinals and you know, that last call... they couldn't get the championship loosing in OT against Bodiroga and Co. but anyway IMO that was the best Argentina of alltime

'02 and '04 had basically the same roster. Perhaps '02 played the most "beautiful" basketball (certainly in the eyes of US fans who enjoyed marveling at their first glimpses of Ginobili. We'd seen Nocioni, Pepe and Wolkowyski before. Then this Ginobili stormed on the court and destroyed all opposing defenses. The '02 team was successful because of their shocking athleticism.

'04 had that athleticism and the defensive intensity that gave them the extra "umpf." A few of their players, like Pepe and Ginobili, put in two years in the NBA and left the league stronger and better. Scola also put in two more years in Spain and '04 included Herrmann, who might not have gotten many minutes, but played a wonderful, stout and strong game that summer.

'02 may have been more beautiful because of the novelty and shock, but '04 was a better prepared team.

[Federoy]

Argentina 2004 vs. Argentina 2002

2004 Roster
Emanuel Ginobili
Luis Scola
Andres Nocioni
Carlos Delfino
Hugo Sconochini
Walter Herrmann
Fabricio Oberto
Juan Ignacio “Pepe” Sanchez
Ruben Wolkowyski
Alejandro Montecchia
Gabriel Fernandez
Leonardo Gutierrez

Coach: Ruben Magnano

Serbia & Montenegro, 83-82, W
Spain, 87-76, L
China, 82-57, W
New Zealand, 98-94, W
Italy, 76-75, L
Greece, 69-64, W
United States, 89-81, W
Italy, 84-69, W

Record: 6-2
Result: gold medal
PS: 656 (82.0 APS)
PA: 610 (76.3 APA)

2002 Roster
Emanuel Ginobili
Luis Scola
Andres Nocioni
Fabricio Oberto
Hugo Sconochini
Ruben Wolkowyski
Juan Ignacio "Pepe" Sanchez
Alejandro Montecchia
Lucas Victoriano
Leandro Palladino
Leonardo Gutierrez
Gabriel Fernandez

Coach: Ruben Magnano

Venezuela, 107-72, W
Russia, 100-81, W
New Zealand, 112-85, W
China, 95-71, W
Germany, 86-77, W
United States, 87-80, W
Brazil, 78-67, W
Germany, 86-80, W
Yugoslavia, 84-77 (OT), L

Record: 8-1
Result: silver medal
PS: 828 (92.0 APS)
PA: 697 (77.4 APA)


*= italics indicates roster change

[Federoy]

About Argentina I think that the 2002 WC team played the most beautiful basketball, even better than 2004, Manu got injured in Semifinals and you know, that last call... they couldn't get the championship loosing in OT against Bodiroga and Co. but anyway IMO that was the best Argentina of alltime

Jokinen, the 2002 team is definitely worthy of praise. They played with great chemisty, passion and dicipline. Ginobilli was amazing in that tournament, and they have the dubious honor of being the first team to knock off a NBA-led US National Team (on their homecourt, no less), which is no small feat. And I'm willing to agree with you that the 2002 team looked and played better together than 2004.

However, there are two main reasons why I didn't put 02 ahead of 04.

1) Regardless of circumstances, 2002 came up short of being first by losing to Yugoslavia. Manu's injury and several questionable calls by the referees may have cost Argentina the gold, but rightly or wrongly, history judges the greatness of teams based on accomplishments, and unfortunately for the 2002 squad they failed to win gold. 2004 team won the gold medal which in my opinion gives them a slight edge.

2) The level of competition was considerably more difficult in 2004 as opposed to 2002. The only quality victories Argentina registered in 2002 was against Germany, a decent opponent but not a great one. In 2004, they beat some great teams on their way to gold: the defending world champions Serbia & Montenegro, the hometown Greeks, the bronze winning Americans and the brillant, overachieving Italians. Even in defeat, they only lost to Italy by one point in pool play and were beaten by a quality Spanish team.

[J-Mart]

IMO people are really overrating the PRNT 2004
Beated the US, yeah, but besides that??


Lost to Lithuania, Italy, Greece and beating Australia and Angola is not exactly an accomplishment.

On the other hand...

The 2002 NT beated Spain, Yugoslavia, Brazil, Turkey, even after suffering the absence of Casiano and Colon, the injury to Shariff Fajardo and the grueling schedule (every PR game was a hard fought physical fight except against Lebanon)

4. Jose "Piculin" Ortiz
5. Rick Apodaca
6. Luis Allende
7. Carlos Arroyo
8. Jerome Mincy
9. Christian Dalmau
10. Elias "Larry" Ayuso
11. Antonio "Puruco" Latimer
12. Rolando Hourruitiner
13. Felix Javier Perez
14. Richie Dalmau
15. Daniel Santiago


Puerto Rico
-1990 World Championship team
-1994 Goodwill Games/World Championship team
-2002 World Championship team

[Mindozas]

IMO people are really overrating the PRNT 2004
Beated the US, yeah, but besides that??


Lost to Lithuania, Italy, Greece and beating Australia and Angola is not exactly an accomplishment.

In 2004 Olympics in the start of the tournament PR NT was amazing, I mean not only results, but the quality of their play. Amazing win over US and really great performance against Lithuania. I don't know what happened later and why their playin' quality went down, but if they'd play like they did in the start, they could have reach high place in Athens, atleast they could beat Italy in quaterfinals for sure. Maybe they just reached the peak of their shape too early or smth

[J-Mart]

In 2004 Olympics in the start of the tournament PR NT was amazing, I mean not only results, but the quality of their play. Amazing win over US and really great performance against Lithuania. I don't know what happened later and why their playin' quality went down, but if they'd play like they did in the start, they could have reach high place in Athens, atleast they could beat Italy in quaterfinals for sure. Maybe they just reached the peak of their shape too early or smth

We were not as good as the 1st game made us look. For PR to stay competitive, Arroyo had to play 38 minutes per game, it took a toll on him. His backups were not adequate, Apodaca got injured, Piculin was not even the shadow of what he was, PJR was too young to be there, Reef Fajardo and Dalmau were there... a lot of things were wrong with that team. The defesive effor was not there, there was no rebounding.

IMO, the 2003 team that won centrobasket and qualified to the olympics was a better one. they were on the verge of elimination, beated venezuela by 25 in a half, dominican republic, brazil, those 3 in straight days lost twice to USA (by 26 and by 16) and then abused Canada.

[Jokinen]

Jokinen, the 2002 team is definitely worthy of praise. They played with great chemisty, passion and dicipline. Ginobilli was amazing in that tournament, and they have the dubious honor of being the first team to knock off a NBA-led US National Team (on their homecourt, no less), which is no small feat. And I'm willing to agree with you that the 2002 team looked and played better together than 2004.

However, there are two main reasons why I didn't put 02 ahead of 04.

1) Regardless of circumstances, 2002 came up short of being first by losing to Yugoslavia. Manu's injury and several questionable calls by the referees may have cost Argentina the gold, but rightly or wrongly, history judges the greatness of teams based on accomplishments, and unfortunately for the 2002 squad they failed to win gold. 2004 team won the gold medal which in my opinion gives them a slight edge.

2) The level of competition was considerably more difficult in 2004 as opposed to 2002. The only quality victories Argentina registered in 2002 was against Germany, a decent opponent but not a great one. In 2004, they beat some great teams on their way to gold: the defending world champions Serbia & Montenegro, the hometown Greeks, the bronze winning Americans and the brillant, overachieving Italians. Even in defeat, they only lost to Italy by one point in pool play and were beaten by a quality Spanish team.

Oh, yeah I just wanted to point that the 2002 gave the best show, and played better basketaball, but I agree with you and nobody can deny that the 2004 will be remembered as the best team mostly by the fact of winning a gold in Olympics and the strongest opponents.

[FRANKY 13]

I think that Greece in the 2006 WC had a far superior team than in the 2005 EC.