2010 WC absentees

[Franz]

i don't tink so

they have lot of talents from 88. to 92. generations, so maybe lithuanians will have small drop, but in few years the should be back

By no means am I saying they won't recover from their current situation but as right now and next year, they will probably be the 7-8 best team in Europe, outside of the top 10 in the world.

I wouldn't expect Lithuania to be competitive again until 2013 or 2014.

[g.g]

That Greece team included players who were too young and inexperienced (Vasilopoulos and Bourousis) or to slow (nightmare Papadopoulos).

Now Bourousis and Sofo have become solid centers. Vasilopoulos and Zisis can not be guaranteed a place in the NT roster even though they've become better. And players who no longer play for the team have been replaced with younger ones with equal (if not more) talent. Like Printezis for Dikoudis.

Roster wise, I think Greece of 2010 can assemble the most talented Greek team ever, but the chemistry is much more important and that is still a question mark. If coach Kazlauskas does a good job, Greece IMO should be right under Spain and USA.

Right on! I also believe that Greece 2010 has the strongest roster ever; Sofo & Bourousis are by far the best center due Greece ever had while I believe Printezis time has arrived. IMHO he is the most talented small forward in Europe. He was almost "there" and Spain worked magic on him.
My only concerns as you put it is Kazla/chemistry. I would had love Papaloukas to be there but it doesn't really matter.His time is over and Greece had/has to learn without him.
PS: Am really looking forward to see the new blood like Papas, Vasiliadis, Papanikolaou and Calathes if they make it to final squad.

[Jon_Koncak]

Not even Printezis' mother would call him the most talented forward in Europe.For starters he's not the best forward of his club(that would be Joel Freeland)

[g.g]

Not even Printezis' mother would call him the most talented forward in Europe.For starters he's not the best forward of his club(that would be Joel Freeland)

How can you compare them? Printezis is simply extraordinary

[arturcia]

I don't see Lithuania recovering anytime soon. I see a lot of teams in Europe overtaking them by next year such as Croatia, France, and Germany.

Sad times for Lithuania basketball.

France - agree, Croatia - maybe, Germany - no way!

[FIBA Europe Basket]

This will probably be the Greek roster:

PG Diamantidis/Zisis/Calathes
SG Spanoulis/Vasileiadis
SF Perperoglou/Printezis
PF Fotsis/Kaimakoglou
C Bourousis/Schortsanitis/Vougioukas

Or if not that then Calathes out and Tsartsaris in. Although it would be betetr to have Papaloukas instead of Calathes because Calathes isn't ready for this level yet, I don't think it's that big of a deal that Papaloukas isn't playing.

Vasilopoulos is injured and I doubt he plays

Honestly, Pelekanos and Mavroeidis are bigger absences than Papaloukas IMO. But it would have been nice if since Papaloukas isn't playing that instead of Calathes they picked someone like Charalampidis or Papamakarios. An experienced guard that is actually ready for such a level.

Anyway, this will be the most talented Greek roster ever along with the 2008 roster. But we have to remember that up until that time the 2008 Greek team was the best roster ever and it failed. They finished 5th when they should have at absolute worst been 3rd. That was a result of poor coaching.

Even though Greece's roster will be without any doubt top 3 in this tournament it still is the issue of coaching. Kazlauskas did a better job last sumemr than Giannakis had in the past but he still didn't do a good job. And Kazlauskas has some very questionable player selections as he is leaving off some of the best players for no explainable reason and instead choosing guys like Koufos (who declined) and Calathes that are not good enough that they should be there yet.

So Greece has the roster to medal anywhere from gold to bronze with or without Papaloukas (although it would be easier with him), but the coaching is still suspect IMO.

[Straight forward]

Right on! I also believe that Greece 2010 has the strongest roster ever; Sofo & Bourousis are by far the best center due Greece ever had while I believe Printezis time has arrived. IMHO he is the most talented small forward in Europe. He was almost "there" and Spain worked magic on him.
My only concerns as you put it is Kazla/chemistry. I would had love Papaloukas to be there but it doesn't really matter.His time is over and Greece had/has to learn without him.
PS: Am really looking forward to see the new blood like Papas, Vasiliadis, Papanikolaou and Calathes if they make it to final squad.

Again and again...

[Genjuro]

I don't agree at all about Greece having their most talented roster ever.

You guys hugely underrate Papaloukas. He was once the top European player not in the NBA, perhaps even the top European guard at some point. Having a deeper team (and still this is highly debatable) does not make up for his absence. I clearly prefer the 2006 version.

However, considering how weak this WC is looking in advance, anything can happen in terms of results.

[FIBA Europe Basket]

I don't agree at all about Greece having their most talented roster ever.

You guys hugely underrate Papaloukas. He was once the top European player not in the NBA, perhaps even the top European guard at some point. Having a deeper team (and still this is highly debatable) does not make up for his absence. I clearly prefer the 2006 version.

However, considering how weak this WC is looking in advance, anything can happen in terms of results.

Just because Papaloukas is not playing does not change that the 2010 Greek team should be considerably stronger on paper than the 2006 Greek team was. But the games are not played on paper.

The 2006 team was a lot more experienced and had more players with big game experience. However, without any doubt this summer's team should be more talented as long as Kazlauskas does not go crazy with the selections.

He already left off good veteran players like Charalampidis, Pelekanos, Mavroeidis, Papamakarios that all deserved to be called before guys like Calathes, Papanikolau, Pappas (I mean Papanikolau.. seriously?) so it's really hard to know what the guys is thinking.

But provided he does not go crazy with the player selections then Greece's team will be much more talented this summer than the 2006 team was. With or without Papaloukas. I'm not saying necessarily better, but the argument about talent - it's not even close.

Bourousis -> Papadopoulos (frankly not even close IMO)

Sofo now -> Sofo then

Spanoulis now -> Spanoulis then

Diamantidis now -> Diamantidis then

Vasileiadis -> Chatzivrettas

Printezis -> Dikoudis

Kaimakoglou -> Kakiuozis

Zisis now -> Zisis then (plus he didn't even play past the group stage in 2006 due to the Varejao elbow)

Perperoglou -> Vasilopoulos

Fotsis now -> Fotsis then (some may argue that but Fotsis is finally mentally tough now as a player and he wasn't back then)



That leaves Tsartsaris. Well back then he was better than he is now. So if he is o the team that's a spot down. But I would expect Vougioukas to replace him. IMHO right now,

Vougioukas -> Tsartsarris was then, or at least he is more productive, maybe not as talented as Tsartsaris, but he's a lot more productive than Tsartsaris ever was.

I guess some might argue about Kaimakoglou and Printezis being better than Dikoudis and Kakiouzis but IMO that's only ACB fans that would come up with such opinions. Anyone that follows Greek basketball knows those guys are way more talented and capable players than Kakiuozis and Dikoudis are. And certainly Kakiouzis and Dikoudis were among the best players in Europe back then.

But Kaimakoglou and Printezis are in a completely different level from then in talent and ability, at least to me they are.

Coaching wise Kazlauskas -> Giannakis

Of course, as I said, Kazluaskas isn't exactly that good of a coach himself either IMO. But he is still better than Giannakis is.

That leaves then probably Calathes and Papaloukas. Well no doubt that back then Papaloukas was better than Calathes is now. Even now Papaloukas is much better than Calathes is.

Which is why it's odd that Kazlauskas did not select a more experienced Greek guard like Papamakarios, Charlampidis, Batis, someone like that instead of Calathes that's really to young for a world championship at this point.

I understand the point about how good Papaloukas was then. But it does not change that the 2010 team should be much stronger than the 2006 team was. Besides, Spanoulis was always the offensive leader of Greece ever since 2006. Even then he was the leader on offense and not Papaloukas.

And even though Calathes has a lot of things he needs to improve it's not like he's bad or anything. He's an excellent ball handler, good defender, extremely smart and competitive. He just can't shoot, can't score, and has no athletic ability. But for purposes of a third string point guard, he would be one of the best probably 3 third string point guards in the whole tournament. And a third string point guard really isn't all that important.

Greece definitely should have a stronger team than they had in 2006, again provided the coach does not go crazy with player selections, as he has a tendency to do. But again, that's just based on paper. The 2006 team was much more experienced, so that might make a difference.

But in terms of the different players like Printezis, Kaimakoglou, Perperoglou, Bourousis and these new generation guys compared to Vasilopoulos, Papadopoulos, Dikoudis, Kakiouzis...............Greece has upped the talent level considerably as far as I am concerned.

[Genjuro]

So you say that the 2006 team was more experienced but not more talented, but then you base a big part of your opinion on the current superior experience of several players (Diamantidis, Spanoulis, Sofo, Fotsis). I don't buy it.

Firstable, I think Diamantidis is a very similar player now he was then. Same for Fotsis. And even Sofo was in a pretty decent shape back then.

Spanoulis is a better player, I have to agree. But that's worse for the team, because he has a bigger role now.

Then, I would take Kakiouzis then over Kaimakoglu now every single day.

For the rest of them, I don't see any great disadvantage. Only Bouroussis, who is a great improvement over Papadopoulos.

But anyway the absence of Papaloukas is far more important than everything else. He was THE MAN in Europe back then, the leader, the crunch-time player, the game changing factor, the team catalyst. And he has no replacement.

Just as example, think about how good was Sofo playing with Papaloukas back then. Do you really think he's going to play better this summer?

[FIBA Europe Basket]

Genjuro, it's obvious you only know players that play in the ACB. Either that or you just hate Greek players.

Seriously..............

Chatzivrettas was a good player. He was a very good shooter and a strong defender. Also quite athletic. However he's nothing compared to Vasileiadis. Not even close. Vasileiadis is way, I mean WAY more talented of a player. Vasileiadis isn;t some role player like Chatzivrettas. He's not a guy that struggles to create his own shot and just plays a bit part in a national team.

Vasileiadis is an amazing player that can beat teams all by himself and is practically unguardable when his game is on. MUCH scarier offensive threat than Papaloukas ever was also.

Vasilopoulos - OK the guy when healthy is hands down the best wing defender in Europe. He's also athletic and a good outside shooter. However, he has no offensive game. He can't score, he can't dribble, etc. He's the Euroleague version of Shane Battier. A nice championship role player for a finishing piece. But no complete player.

Perperoglou is way more skilled and talented than Vasilopoulos. Not even worth even debating. I mean it's laughable to discuss to me. Perperoglou is a complete player on offense that is universal and can do everything. He's definitely not Vasilopoulos on defense, but he's pretty damn good himself on D. Overall, not even close, Perp is clearly better.

Papadopoulos was a great low post scorer and a big body to defend the rim and a good rebounder, even great. But that's it. Slow, no athletic ability, beyond low post not much skill, etc......

Bourousis is highly skilled, a great rebounder, very athletic, a very good shooter. Can knock down the 3 and if you leave him open usually will hit the shot. Seriously.........this is not close at all. Bourousis is FAR more talented.

Kakiouzis - a great player in skill and smarts. Very good shooter, good scorer, good one on one skills, etc.

Kaimakoglou = virtually the same exact player as Kakiouzis skill wise and play style wise. However he is much stronger, much better body and physical attributes. FAR more athletic. Kaimakoglou is the new and improved and better version of Kakiouzis. Kaimakoglou is definitely a bigger talent than Kakiouzis. Period. Does he have the same cleverness, smarts, etc. as Kakiouzi? No. The "intangibles" and all that. But in terms of skills it is equal and in physical attributes and especially athleticism Kaimakoglou is a superior talent.

Dikoudis back in the day was an athletic freak and he was a beast in scoring attacking the rim and in rebounding. He also had a decent low post game. A 4 that could handle some 5.

OK well Printezis is also an athletic freak (more so than Dikoudis was), he's also a good rebounder. Printezis is more versatile. Printezis is probably a better shooter. Printezis has a better low post game. He's a better ball handler. He's better at creating his own shot. He's a better one to one player. Printezis is a FAR better one to one and team defender. Not even close on the defense end.

The only thing in truth that Dikoudis was better at was the face up game on offense. I would certainly give that to Dikoudis, but even then Printezis is decent at that. Dikoudis was a guy that really was not a good defense fit at 4 or 5. Printezis can guard any 2,3,4 there is. Printezis is a much bigger talent overall.


I mean these are not even debatable. Like I said, only an ACB only fan could argue this. Or someone that hates or is afraid if the Greek team and players.


Now where you might have a point is Calathes - Papaloukas and Tsartaris - Vougioukas.

Papaloukas was way more talented than Calathes is. True. Calathes will be a very good player one day but never as good as Papaloukas IMO.

Tsartaris was more talented than Vougioukas also. However, that's misleading because Tsartaris was always an underachiever, never lived up to his ability, never produced that much, etc. The guy could have been a starter in the NBA easy with his talent, but he just never did much with it.

Vougioukas, while not as talented, is a more productive player than Tsartaris really ever was. So actually it does not mean much there.

Now if you are really trying to argue that having Papaloukas or not having Papaloukas is such a huge factor for Greece.......then I don't know where to begin. It's not even a big deal. I can't honestly say any Greeks are worried about it at all.

And of course Papaloukas was great back in 2006. However, yes, back then Spanoulis was the leader on offense. His role is no bigger now. It's the same as it was. And if you are arguing Greece cannot make up for Papaloukas on offense then I suggest you watch Vasileiadis a little more carefully next year in your precious ACB. Vasileiadis is a better offensive player than Papaloukas ever was, even in his prime.

Whether you like it or not, as long as Kazluaskas picks a reasonable selection for the tournament, Greece will be stronger than they were in 2006 in terms of "talent". That is just a clear fact, no matter how much the idea bothers you.

[Genjuro]

I find pretty surprising that you point at me for only knowing players in the ACB League just to glorify Vasileiadis. I mean, HE PLAYS IN THE ACB LEAGUE.

Anyway, it's again pretty surprising that you forget Vasileiadis' display with Unicaja or Olympiakos (role player) and the player Chatzivrettas was when he used to top the Greek league in scoring in a smaller team (lead player). An interesting situation, to say the least (and I don't mean he's better).

As for Spanoulis, I didn't explain myself properly. I don't have any problem with him being the main scorer off the ball. But without Papaloukas it's highly possible that he will handle the ball (and the PG position) more than it would be desirable for the team success.

And finally, I find just shocking that you don't consider cleverness or smartness as part of a player's talent.

Now I do understand why you consider this team more talented than the 2006 version. And under those parameters, I do agree with you.

[jdh008]

There is an interesting interview up on FIBA's website with Team Canada head coach Leo Rautins. It's mostly a fluff piece discussing what Rautins saw in the U-17 Canadian team, but they did bring up the senior national team roster and who would be playing.

When asked if his roster was set, Rautins said all his players are on board and that the most famous Canadian player (Steve Nash) "didn't say no." I doubt Nash plays for Canada, but it was interesting that it wasn't a definite no.

[pablonis]

Darjus Lavrinovic is likely out of the World championship as well.

Can't say i'm sad about that really. The federation is unable to understand the importance of starting rebuilding the team this year already, so refusal of many veterans is doing that for them. I just hope Kemzura wont take a bunch of 27-28 year old average players, but will opt for much younger ones. Imho, with Lavrinovic out, Motiejunas is now almost certainly in.

[Franz]

WC is officially destroyed.

In an interview with AOL Fanhouse on Monday, USA Basketball chairman Jerry Colangelo said Bryant, as well as every other player on the 2008 Olympic team except for Deron Williams and Chris Paul, will not compete in the FIBA World Championships in Turkey.

"It's a combination of three things: free agency, injuries and having gone hard for a long time,'' Colangelo said. "And I'm OK with that."

Link

Not that I'm rooting for the USA team but this recent news certainly lowers the level of the tournament.

So what's next for the international community?