Which teams do you want to see fail at WBC?

[Adon]

And you're right, there are crazy nationalistic people everywhere. I remember once I chatted with too greek guys that were trying to convince me that Nikos Gallis was better and more dominant than Pau Gasol will ever be.

"He averaged 33.0 points per game at the 1983 FIBA European Championship, 33.7 points per game at the 1986 FIBA World Championship, 37.0 points per game at the 1987 FIBA European Championship, 35.6 points per game at the 1989 FIBA European Championship, and 32.4 points per game at the 1991 FIBA European Championship. Galis was only a 1.85 m (6 ft 1 in) tall combo guard. In every one of the games that Galis played in these tournaments, the entire defense of every opposing team was focused on stopping his scoring outbursts."
In addition,he got medals for Greece,playing with an average NTeam.Pau got medals playing with superstars like him.

[sseppel]

"He averaged 33.0 points per game at the 1983 FIBA European Championship, 33.7 points per game at the 1986 FIBA World Championship, 37.0 points per game at the 1987 FIBA European Championship, 35.6 points per game at the 1989 FIBA European Championship, and 32.4 points per game at the 1991 FIBA European Championship. Galis was only a 1.85 m (6 ft 1 in) tall combo guard. In every one of the games that Galis played in these tournaments, the entire defense of every opposing team was focused on stopping his scoring outbursts."
In addition,he got medals for Greece,playing with an average NTeam.Pau got medals playing with superstars like him.

Hey, I never said Gallis wasn't a great, dominant player. I will not discuss that here since that's not the topic of the post. I'll just leave this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau_Gasol .

[Apollo64]

And you're right, there are crazy nationalistic people everywhere. I remember once I chatted with two greek guys that were trying to convince me that Nikos Gallis was better and more dominant than Pau Gasol will ever be.

...and that's not true?

[Adon]

Hey, I never said Gallis wasn't a great, dominant player. I will not discuss that here since that's not the topic of the post. I'll just leave this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau_Gasol .

We are very liberal here.Practically we discuss anything anywhere
Anyway,there is no safe way to evaluate who was "better" or more "dominant".Different positions,different teams,different eras,different "historical" occurrences.
Perhaps those two Greek guys were not "crazy nationalistic people" after all.

[sseppel]

We are very liberal here.Practically we discuss anything anywhere
Anyway,there is no safe way to evaluate who was "better" or more "dominant".Different positions,different teams,different eras,different "historical" occurrences.
Perhaps those two Greek guys were not "crazy nationalistic people" after all.

That's the issue, it's something very subjective, and that's the reason why a greek will take Galis 99% of the times. Same for a spanish and Gasol. The real trouble (for me) comes when someone doesn't even admit a discussion, for example:

...and that's not true?

And don't even take in consideration a guy who has always ruled in FIBA competitions, is a star in the best league in the world and has managed all this:

Career highlights and awards
2× NBA Champion (2009, 2010)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2002)
3× NBA All-Star (2006, 2009–2010)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2009–2010)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2002)
2006 FIBA World Championship MVP
2009 EuroBasket MVP
2001 Spanish King's Cup MVP
2001 Spanish League Finals MVP
2001 All-Euroleague Second Team
2× FIBA Europe Player of the Year (2008–2009)
2× Mister Europa Player of the Year (2004, 2009)
2× Euroscar Player of the Year (2008–2009)

Medal record

Silver 2008 Beijing
Gold 2006 Japan
Bronze 2001 Turkey
Silver 2003 Sweden
Silver 2007 Spain
Gold 2009 Poland

I think we'll see when Gasol's career is over. Both are european basketball legends, but Gasol is in the polls for the best european player ever, and that's not something only said in Spain. I wonder if someone not greek think Nikos Galis may be the greatest.

[Apollo64]

I was just kidding. This is not the thread to have this discussion, not to mention it's an awkward one, because as Adon said, it's a comparison of players of different eras, circumstances and positions. I personally don't see any value in that type of player comparisons.

[Adon]

And don't even take in consideration a guy who has always ruled in FIBA competitions, is a star in the best league in the world and has managed all this:....

I can assure you that no Greek fan underestimates Pau-on the contrary.The thing is that Galis was perhaps more important for Greek bb than Pau is for Spanish bb.

I think we'll see when Gasol's career is over. Both are european basketball legends, but Gasol is in the polls for the best european player ever, and that's not something only said in Spain. I wonder if someone not greek think Nikos Galis may be the greatest.

Perhaps most Europeans don't remember Galis anymore.How many do they remember Radivoj Korac,or krezimir Cosic,or even San Epifanio? I wonder if anyone thinks that Big Bill Russel is greater than Pau ! I think not!
Russel is forgotten,Pau is the present.

[Unimane]

And in the final against Argentina in 2002, too. There are a lot of examples, and not only with Serbia/Yugoslavia.

But all countries suffer bad refereeing sometimes (probably we should exclude the americans). Look the final in the Olympics, I could certainly tell that refs didn't go with us in that one.

Even I don't justify it, I can understand more easily that a ref may tend to favor the local team because of the pressure of the audience. Being a greek fan, I'm sure you will agree

I want Spain to lose because of these attitudes. I'm tired of the Spanish crying about the refs in the Olympic Final and how they would've won "if the rules had been enforced".

[sseppel]

I want Spain to lose because of these attitudes. I'm tired of the Spanish crying about the refs in the Olympic Final and how they would've won "if the rules had been enforced".

Whoa, it must be true that you are tired of it, because you are putting words in my mouth that i didn't say. At the moment, I had a lot of discussions about this matter. I just was saying that the refs don't always benefit Spain. You'll give that to me, won't you?

I never thought that we lost because of the referees. In fact I was kind of surprised when everybody here were blaming them for the defeat. Everybody knew they were not going to call the travelings. It would have been a different game if they had handled it as any other game, and maybe we would have had more chances of winning. But the true is that they were better, that's it. I was proud of how we played and we almost won all the NBA superstars, we had cought the americans by the balls untill the (4th?) minute of the last quarter.

I'd ask you to understand the frustration of having a real posibility of wining the "redeem team" and watching it slip it out your hands even when our guys did the best they could.

[msfn]

I think we'll see when Gasol's career is over. Both are european basketball legends, but Gasol is in the polls for the best european player ever, and that's not something only said in Spain. I wonder if someone not greek think Nikos Galis may be the greatest.

I know I might considered trolling but I couldn't resist :P

Some things about Galis from non-greeks...

Celtics legend Red Auerbach said that the single biggest mistake he ever made in his career was not keeping Galis.

Galis' coach at Seton Hall (College), Billy Raftery, stated that Galis was the best player he ever coached.

Drazen Petrovic: I’d love to play with Galis in the same team I would assist him the ball and he would put it in the basket.

Sergey Belov: I admire him. When he plays one against one there is no way to stop him. I never thought that could be a player who could on his own beat the Soviet Union.

Alexander Gomelski: player of the 21st century.

Arvydas Sabonis: I feel that if Galis wants to make a basket, he will do it no matter who his opponent is.

When Marciulionis later in his carreer, was asked who was the best player he ever faced, he said Nick Galis.

As college basketball player (US) Gallis in his senior year was leading nation's scoring along with Larry Bird.

Michael Jordan has guarded Galis in a game between Greek national team against the North Carolina Tar Heels. Galis scored 50 points during the game.

Galis was a mediocre 3p shooter. The average career of 32.8p per game (753 games) consisted of almost no 3p shots at all. A FG percentage of 70% was like mediocre to him! Think about it

IMO the only reason for Galis not to be at the status of jordan, magic, bird etc. is because he played in a small country long time ago. He could not go back to NBA (Boston Celtics and New jersey Nets offered him contracts) later on because if he was, he would not be able to play with Greek NT (FIBA rules at that time).

Search more about galis he might be more than you think

I agree tho, we'll see when Gasol's career is over.

[sseppel]

It was a close call between US and Spain, but US had rondo and spain had gasol, so definitely spain.

And that's also for the 300 years of you know what.

So you feel bitter with a basketball team because of things that happened even before basketball was basketball? I mean, It's not Calderón fault (for example) that Philippines was a colony :S

[Levenspiel]

sseppel, welcome on board first.

I dislike Spanish team and support the opponent in every game, not because of jealousy. Why should be jealous of Spain only? do you think you're only successful basketball country in the world?

It's not the referees, either. As examples given above, Yugoslavia was infamous for it (the 2002 WBC final... i'll keep saying this).

Hell, it's not even flopping. Ginobili does it on a master level, but people admire him still and his country's basketball team. Argentina is one of the most beloved teams actually.

It's the attitude. it's constant whining and those unbearable sight of crying faces of world's top class players. Man, it's disgusting.

This is the only reason I want to see Spain fail.

[Red 7]

France : Because I don't like their style of play.

Greece : Because of their loby in FIBA

USA : Because they are the strongest

Man, if we had a lobby in FIBA we would have won much more than one Eurobasket, a silver in WC and bronze in Eurobasket. The definition of a lobby was under Stankovic.

[Fedfan]

Man, if we had a lobby in FIBA we would have won much more than one Eurobasket, a silver in WC and bronze in Eurobasket. The definition of a lobby was under Stankovic.

First rule of GL,there is no GL. well done comrade!

So you feel bitter with a basketball team because of things that happened even before basketball was basketball? I mean, It's not Calderón fault (for example) that Philippines was a colony :S

yeah I don't find anything so peculiar about this.It's normal for many people's national likes and dislikes to come from such "silly" things as 300 year old history,religion or how good the players look shirtless.
To each their own I say!

and Y'all free to dislike greece because Socrates was gay or coz Span doesn't have much hair on his head,I don't mind!

[Perseus]

i sure you like Serbs too.