Draw for the FIBA World Cup [Manila, Philippines, Apr 29]

[Serbian_Layup]

So you were saying about Serbia apriori the WC 2019. They went flat with all their talent.

How much SGA and Murray can dominate FIBA is very intriguing, but far from guaranteeing anything to Canada, specially in today's FIBA. They would match with some Rubio and L. Brown and those 2 would trick them big time IMO because of incomparably better understanding how to play in small FIBA courts. Micic and Bogdanovic would have an upper hand at this point likely too, or Germany with Schroder and F. Wagner.

Not saying that SGA, Murray wouldn't dominate and would go flat. I'm saying Canada not yet settled as a force. And we know what happened to USA last WC and so on. European top teams and Australia have advantage cause they are fixed and oiled teams.

To be fair, SGA against Argentina (at 1 midget Campazzo, and 2 Laprovitola as very soft and poor defender) was 8/19 from the field, 42%. Was good, but not overwhelming. Not what you would call "toying" against really poor perimeter D.

Love SGA specially, not so much Murray, but Canada has nothing except nice stuff on the paper. They have to come and do the shit. And that ain't happening for a decade now while Canada's talent goes over the board on the paper. FIBA now is crazy and ATM I have top Euro teams and Australia schooling them. Not even talking about well stacked USA (but well stacked...). Canada's potential should be taken easily until they step on the podium. I specially see this seeing how stacked and playing together forever Serbia can't do a thing in FIBA recently. Canada's best pieces have nearly zero experience playing together.

PS: What makes Greeks so optimistic about the match-up vs Lithuania? The fact that they managed to beat Italy? Lithuania was much closer to beat Germany anyway and went down against champs. I sincerely refuse to call Greeks clear favorites. Sure, there's Giannis, he'll dominate, but Lithuania has deeper scoring pallet. We were elite scoring team going against elite teams all Eurobasket long while Greeks went against scrubs as GB, Ukraine, Estonia (and even CR and Croatia with all respect...). It's a 50/50 game if Greeks are lucky cause Calathes, Sloukas, Papanikolou got older and nothing yet on horizon to replace them, while Jokubaitis, Brazdeikis feasting in EL playoffs as young up and coming studs.

Walcup would be pretty nice addition though...Dorsey and Walkup can play together or not?

If Canada is coming with both Murray and SGA or at least one of them, hard for anyone to beat them (assuming they will take this seriously and have better preparations). I doubt that Murray will come though, especially if Nuggets go deep in the playoffs, considering his woes with injuries the past couple of years. Nevertheless, with SGA (who is totally different player than who he was even last season or the last FIBA tournament) and even half of the players from the list above, Canada is to be taken seriously. Half of that talent pool is enough to beat anyone.

If Walkup and Dorsey can both play, it's great for Greece. If Itoudis has to pick one of them, tough decision for him. Dorsey is what they need on offense with Giannis, but Walkup is a great defender, so him and Giannis together could do anything defensively. Maybe Itoudis should give it all to defense and take whatever they can offensively, especially in transition. It feels to me that Greece has a higher ceiling as a defensive oriented team with Walkup and Giannis locking down perimeter. Building offense from defense seems like a reasonable choice for Giannis led Greece.

For Lithuania to be in medal contention their guards would have to add a few more levels to their game. Greece with Sloukas, Calathes, Walkup/Dorsey is still a better backcourt than Lithuanian. However, Liths will get to see what is Jokubaitis' upside when given a large role and bigger usage, because quite frankly it's hard to tell whether he improved or not this season because his usage is still low and it's uncertain whether he can be the lead guard of a winning team. Brazdeikis can be impactful, but he is a wild card a little bit, if his scoring is stopped (and Greece has the length and size to bother him) there is little he can offer in other aspects of the game. Still a great game for 1/4 if it comes to that.

As for Serbia, it will depend whether Jokić comes or not, but with Bogdan coming there is a guarantee that this team will be good. Jokić is the one who moves the needle for us from being competitive to medal contender. The worry is also whether Pešić can handle this level of competition considering his age and focus on details. Still, it will be interesting to see some new names and how they fit in with bigger roles - Pokuševski, Petrušev, Smailagić, which will be very important in case Jokić skips this year.

[Ridirkulous]

Hyperbole. Look it up. Thanks for the math lesson.
You’re an excitable little fella ain’t ya. I remember you from last year. A lot of insecurity. Explains the coming on strong trying to prove yourself regardless of the discussion. I don’t waste my time with those types. Enjoy.

Well, at some point the systematic use of hyperbole (e.g. SGA best player in the tournament, assessment of Olynyk's FIBA skills, the post quoted below) to back up shaky opinions becomes a little tedious. I'll let you be the judge of that threshold yourself.. ;-)

I might be excitable, but you are also way too excitable (or rather, excited) about this Canadian team.

There’s a better chance of you and I making our respective National teams than Durant or Tatum participating just so you know.

I don't know what you are basing your opinion on. Let's just bookmark it. I think there is a fairly reasonable chance one of them shows up. But I guess you are using hyperbole again.

[Straight forward]

Serbian Layup,

They should absolutely be taken seriously, but all this about Canada is "on the paper". The fact is they have very very very little real FIBA experience, or none experience to be fair. OQT 2021 was the most serious test for them what they had. When the last time they played truly relevant game in FIBA (Sorry, Americup is not that)? 2000? They are the sum of unconnected/incoherent individuals who have zero or very little FIBA experience.

I would also go with Walkup, but we are talking not about 4finals, but second group and possible fight for second spot between Liths and Greeks. Both Calathes and Sloukas had fairly unimpressive EB 22, maybe now they will be better (I think Sloukas was bothered with injury or was coming back), but it's also not very likely as they get older. Specially Calathes already has passed his prime surely. Depending on what kind of tournaments there 2 ex stars have, Greece still has an edge, I agree, but Lithuania has more complete offensive roster. Like 6 players in double digits. While Greece relies on Giannis heavily and threre's Dorsey, Sloukas (only 3). Jokubaitis, Brazdeikis and Sabonis roles will be increasing. Jokubaitis improvements are certain in terms of facilitation and now he has been very good in playoffs. I don't see Greek players who are obviously growing players ATM among key players. Greeks better defensive team though. Lithuania might have some absences though. Even losing Grigonis is big hit. We'll see, but I tend to think it's 50/50.


I happened to see differently at Serbia now. Bog probably will be great, but he also was troubled by injuries and turning 31 this summer. Probably his last tournament when he can totally dominate with 22-25ppg kinda performances. But so he was there in 2019 as well. Serbia's worst enemy is Serbia. 22 EB wasn't positive. Serbia failed to establish dominance built around Jokic. Maybe Bog will work as glue guy, or maybe current Serbia lacking some-one like Teodosic. Micic somehow comes as unreliable and slightly unpredictable star guard. He doesn't have no IQ and decision making of TEO which made Serbia oiled machine. Both Micic and Bog can go for too open scoring feast which is not always beneficial (Micic poor shooting from the field against Italians...). Theoretically Serbia has everything and more. Practically it doesn't work recently. I feel like prime Teo >>> current Micic + Bog. Specially when you have Jokic. Those 2 would be messing around. Serbia may be missing pass first highest level PG as Teo. Micic is different breed. May be close, but different.

[Giannis34GOD]

If Canada is coming with both Murray and SGA or at least one of them, hard for anyone to beat them (assuming they will take this seriously and have better preparations). I doubt that Murray will come though, especially if Nuggets go deep in the playoffs, considering his woes with injuries the past couple of years. Nevertheless, with SGA (who is totally different player than who he was even last season or the last FIBA tournament) and even half of the players from the list above, Canada is to be taken seriously. Half of that talent pool is enough to beat anyone.

If Walkup and Dorsey can both play, it's great for Greece. If Itoudis has to pick one of them, tough decision for him. Dorsey is what they need on offense with Giannis, but Walkup is a great defender, so him and Giannis together could do anything defensively. Maybe Itoudis should give it all to defense and take whatever they can offensively, especially in transition. It feels to me that Greece has a higher ceiling as a defensive oriented team with Walkup and Giannis locking down perimeter. Building offense from defense seems like a reasonable choice for Giannis led Greece.

For Lithuania to be in medal contention their guards would have to add a few more levels to their game. Greece with Sloukas, Calathes, Walkup/Dorsey is still a better backcourt than Lithuanian. However, Liths will get to see what is Jokubaitis' upside when given a large role and bigger usage, because quite frankly it's hard to tell whether he improved or not this season because his usage is still low and it's uncertain whether he can be the lead guard of a winning team. Brazdeikis can be impactful, but he is a wild card a little bit, if his scoring is stopped (and Greece has the length and size to bother him) there is little he can offer in other aspects of the game. Still a great game for 1/4 if it comes to that.

As for Serbia, it will depend whether Jokić comes or not, but with Bogdan coming there is a guarantee that this team will be good. Jokić is the one who moves the needle for us from being competitive to medal contender. The worry is also whether Pešić can handle this level of competition considering his age and focus on details. Still, it will be interesting to see some new names and how they fit in with bigger roles - Pokuševski, Petrušev, Smailagić, which will be very important in case Jokić skips this year.

Walkup and Dorsey can't play together since both were classified as Naturalized player under FIBA rules... So only one of them should play as per rules...

[Serbian_Layup]

Serbian Layup,

They should absolutely be taken seriously, but all this about Canada is "on the paper". The fact is they have very very very little real FIBA experience, or none experience to be fair. OQT 2021 was the most serious test for them what they had. When the last time they played truly relevant game in FIBA (Sorry, Americup is not that)? 2000? They are the sum of unconnected/incoherent individuals who have zero or very little FIBA experience.

I would also go with Walkup, but we are talking not about 4finals, but second group and possible fight for second spot between Liths and Greeks. Both Calathes and Sloukas had fairly unimpressive EB 22, maybe now they will be better (I think Sloukas was bothered with injury or was coming back), but it's also not very likely as they get older. Specially Calathes already has passed his prime surely. Depending on what kind of tournaments there 2 ex stars have, Greece still has an edge, I agree, but Lithuania has more complete offensive roster. Like 6 players in double digits. While Greece relies on Giannis heavily and threre's Dorsey, Sloukas (only 3). Jokubaitis, Brazdeikis and Sabonis roles will be increasing. Jokubaitis improvements are certain in terms of facilitation and now he has been very good in playoffs. I don't see Greek players who are obviously growing players ATM among key players. Greeks better defensive team though. Lithuania might have some absences though. Even losing Grigonis is big hit. We'll see, but I tend to think it's 50/50.


I happened to see differently at Serbia now. Bog probably will be great, but he also was troubled by injuries and turning 31 this summer. Probably his last tournament when he can totally dominate with 22-25ppg kinda performances. But so he was there in 2019 as well. Serbia's worst enemy is Serbia. 22 EB wasn't positive. Serbia failed to establish dominance built around Jokic. Maybe Bog will work as glue guy, or maybe current Serbia lacking some-one like Teodosic. Micic somehow comes as unreliable and slightly unpredictable star guard. He doesn't have no IQ and decision making of TEO which made Serbia oiled machine. Both Micic and Bog can go for too open scoring feast which is not always beneficial (Micic poor shooting from the field against Italians...). Theoretically Serbia has everything and more. Practically it doesn't work recently. I feel like prime Teo >>> current Micic + Bog. Specially when you have Jokic. Those 2 would be messing around. Serbia may be missing pass first highest level PG as Teo. Micic is different breed. May be close, but different.

Just because they were incoherent in the past doesn't mean things can't change. But they will have to be much more dedicated to be a winning team.

With improved Jokubaitis and Sabonis, Lithuania will be a serious threat. That remains to be seen though, because Jokubaitis played better last year than this season IMO and Sabonis, being very good, has some glaring weaknesses. Calathes is past his prime but still a useful player with much more experience compared to Jokubaitis. Sloukas is the lead guard of one of contenders to win Euroleague this season. With the help of Walkup, they become even more dangerous. But for sure, Greece also has weaknesses which Lithuania can exploit if Jokubaitis-Sabonis can make a real connection and improve rise their level.

Prime Teo over Micic for sure, especially in the context of how our NT is built. His game is much more suitable for us. However, to take Teo over Bogi or both Micic and Bogi, I wouldn't go that far. Micic has not been the best version of himself in NT, but I wouldn't call him unrelieable. His game is different and he had no troubles to lead Efes to titles but in Serbian NT he is shadowed by either Jokic or Bogi, it becomes difficult for him considering his game style and the need to have ball in his hands. That was possible in Efes, but becomes troublesome with Jokic and Bogdan at the helm. We had a great run 2014-2017, the last few years have been a little dissapointing but with a lot of objective reasons (like that OQT in Belgrade when half playerd were injured). Bogi and Jokic played together in 2019 with Jokić being totally misused. I'm pretty sure they could be the best 1-2 punch at the World Cup if Jokic shows up. If Serbia aims to go deep, then Bogi and Jokic are a must, everyone else is pretty much replaceable. Teo would still help, but his defense right now has come to the point where you can not hide him, so he would end up doing more harm than good. Right now, we just need Bogi and Jokic to pair up.

Bogi is 31 but I don't see how his level can drop significantly in one year. He is going to play for NT as long as he is healthy. Or at least long enough to win a few more medals with NT, hopefully.

[R1ou]

So you were saying about Serbia apriori the WC 2019. They went flat with all their talent.

How much SGA and Murray can dominate FIBA is very intriguing, but far from guaranteeing anything to Canada, specially in today's FIBA. They would match with some Rubio and L. Brown and those 2 would trick them big time IMO because of incomparably better understanding how to play in small FIBA courts. Micic and Bogdanovic would have an upper hand at this point likely too, or Germany with Schroder and F. Wagner.

Not saying that SGA, Murray wouldn't dominate and would go flat. I'm saying Canada not yet settled as a force. And we know what happened to USA last WC and so on. European top teams and Australia have advantage cause they are fixed and oiled teams.

To be fair, SGA against Argentina (at 1 midget Campazzo, and 2 Laprovitola as very soft and poor defender) was 8/19 from the field, 42%. Was good, but not overwhelming. Not what you would call "toying" against really poor perimeter D.

Love SGA specially, not so much Murray, but Canada has nothing except nice stuff on the paper. They have to come and do the shit. And that ain't happening for a decade now while Canada's talent goes over the board on the paper. FIBA now is crazy and ATM I have top Euro teams and Australia schooling them. Not even talking about well stacked USA (but well stacked...). Canada's potential should be taken easily until they step on the podium. I specially see this seeing how stacked and playing together forever Serbia can't do a thing in FIBA recently. Canada's best pieces have nearly zero experience playing together.

PS: What makes Greeks so optimistic about the match-up vs Lithuania? The fact that they managed to beat Italy? Lithuania was much closer to beat Germany anyway and went down against champs. I sincerely refuse to call Greeks clear favorites. Sure, there's Giannis, he'll dominate, but Lithuania has deeper scoring pallet. We were elite scoring team going against elite teams all Eurobasket long while Greeks went against scrubs as GB, Ukraine, Estonia (and even CR and Croatia with all respect...). It's a 50/50 game if Greeks are lucky cause Calathes, Sloukas, Papanikolou got older and nothing yet on horizon to replace them, while Jokubaitis, Brazdeikis feasting in EL playoffs as young up and coming studs.

Walcup would be pretty nice addition though...Dorsey and Walkup can play together or not?

Well Greece lost to Germany because they shoot lights out and had an awful defensive approach on the game. I respect LTU team and think they got a better future than those awful 10s sides post 2014, but this joke with Jokubaitis needs to stop. He's 23 and not a teen and it's already crystal clear that his ceiling is a back point guard at playoff teams which is certainly not bad but nowhere near you project him to be. He is not and will never be the leading point guard in any good team, that role should be great for him in teams like Bayern or Pao that fight to reach the playoffs. Not even bothering to comment about an NBA adventure.

[Toruko]

Well Greece lost to Germany because they shoot lights out and had an awful defensive approach on the game. I respect LTU team and think they got a better future than those awful 10s sides post 2014, but this joke with Jokubaitis needs to stop. He's 23 and not a teen and it's already crystal clear that his ceiling is a back point guard at playoff teams which is certainly not bad but nowhere near you project him to be. He is not and will never be the leading point guard in any good team, that role should be great for him in teams like Bayern or Pao that fight to reach the playoffs. Not even bothering to comment about an NBA adventure.

I have been trying to tell him this for a long time but I was never so merciless

[DenverJokic]

Just because they were incoherent in the past doesn't mean things can't change. But they will have to be much more dedicated to be a winning team.

With improved Jokubaitis and Sabonis, Lithuania will be a serious threat. That remains to be seen though, because Jokubaitis played better last year than this season IMO and Sabonis, being very good, has some glaring weaknesses. Calathes is past his prime but still a useful player with much more experience compared to Jokubaitis. Sloukas is the lead guard of one of contenders to win Euroleague this season. With the help of Walkup, they become even more dangerous. But for sure, Greece also has weaknesses which Lithuania can exploit if Jokubaitis-Sabonis can make a real connection and improve rise their level.

Prime Teo over Micic for sure, especially in the context of how our NT is built. His game is much more suitable for us. However, to take Teo over Bogi or both Micic and Bogi, I wouldn't go that far. Micic has not been the best version of himself in NT, but I wouldn't call him unrelieable. His game is different and he had no troubles to lead Efes to titles but in Serbian NT he is shadowed by either Jokic or Bogi, it becomes difficult for him considering his game style and the need to have ball in his hands. That was possible in Efes, but becomes troublesome with Jokic and Bogdan at the helm. We had a great run 2014-2017, the last few years have been a little dissapointing but with a lot of objective reasons (like that OQT in Belgrade when half playerd were injured). Bogi and Jokic played together in 2019 with Jokić being totally misused. I'm pretty sure they could be the best 1-2 punch at the World Cup if Jokic shows up. If Serbia aims to go deep, then Bogi and Jokic are a must, everyone else is pretty much replaceable. Teo would still help, but his defense right now has come to the point where you can not hide him, so he would end up doing more harm than good. Right now, we just need Bogi and Jokic to pair up.

Bogi is 31 but I don't see how his level can drop significantly in one year. He is going to play for NT as long as he is healthy. Or at least long enough to win a few more medals with NT, hopefully.

I really don’t know what to expect from Serbia. Jokic and Bogdanovic 2 man game should be good enough to get them to the quarterfinals. Have concerns about coaching, as Pesic really mismanaged their loss against Italy at Eurobasket. I wonder if the game has passed Pesic by.

[Straight forward]

but this joke with Jokubaitis needs to stop. He's 23 and not a teen and it's already crystal clear that his ceiling is a back point guard at playoff teams which is certainly not bad but nowhere near you project him to be. He is not and will never be the leading point guard in any good team, that role should be great for him in teams like Bayern or Pao that fight to reach the playoffs. Not even bothering to comment about an NBA adventure.

What are you talking about? Jokubaitis is only 22yo. No players of his age are even playing in EL, didn't even start yet, let alone about deciding their upside. Jokubaitis has 4-5 year left till his prime Let's not even discuss his upside and who was (will be) right cause you unleashed a hate that has zero rational value. Dude, literally there's no guards of this age among any more serous teams playing, like probably not even in entire league, maybe few. How is 22yo is finished product? I mean, you don't want to look completely stupid right? But unfortunately you made completely stupid post. Jokubaitis may become a solid back-up or whatever, but we'll see that in 4-5 years when he will be 26-27.

It's like saying that Kalaitzakis bros will be complete trash in their career, cause they at 24 barely play in EL and don't show anything generally. But that's not true. In 3 years they may be among top wings in EL. Let alone 22yo Jokubaitis...who is the MVP of Barca's perimeter at the moment in the playoffs.

[Serbian_Layup]

I really don’t know what to expect from Serbia. Jokic and Bogdanovic 2 man game should be good enough to get them to the quarterfinals. Have concerns about coaching, as Pesic really mismanaged their loss against Italy at Eurobasket. I wonder if the game has passed Pesic by.

Bogi and Jokić at their top level would help Pešić a lot and minimize his potentially slow reactions in game management. If there is only Bogi, then it could be problematic for Pešić to handle all the details and lineups to our favor.

[R1ou]

Major blow if it's true that Ulanovas, Grigonis, Giedraitis and Lekavicius are not going to show up for LTU. That's 4 straight absenses from main rotation.

[usagre]

Here’s a possible somewhat realistic team USA roster:

D. Fox, J. Brunson, T. Halliburton
A. Edwards, D. Bane
M. Bridges
B. Ingram , J. Randle, S. Barnes
J. Jackson Jr., E. Mobley, J. Allen

[Giannis34GOD]

Here’s a possible somewhat realistic team USA roster:

D. Fox, J. Brunson, T. Halliburton
A. Edwards, D. Bane
M. Bridges
B. Ingram , J. Randle, S. Barnes
J. Jackson Jr., E. Mobley, J. Allen

I think this is better than 2019 group... The 2019 USA team has only 1 All star member (Walker) plus bunch of rookies and sophomores such as Tatum, Brown, Kuzma and Mitchelle... But that line up i think will not win the Gold... They need atleast 1 or 2 veteran to guide those young guns.... I guess 1 or 2 former winners of Olympics or WC before will join the squad... Even coach Kerr knows that....

[usagre]

Historically winners of Olympics don’t play in the Worlds. It’s looked upon as an inferior competition and a step down. The nature of these tournaments being what they are with the one and done I definitely can see this type of roster coming up short, but then again they would still undoubtedly be the favorite and would be expected to win the competition more than any other team. I agree about the ‘19 team. That roster was probably the worst ever for USA/NBA and was poorly coached as well.

[mojo13]

Historically winners of Olympics don’t play in the Worlds. It’s looked upon as an inferior competition and a step down. The nature of these tournaments being what they are with the one and done I definitely can see this type of roster coming up short, but then again they would still undoubtedly be the favorite and would be expected to win the competition more than any other team. I agree about the ‘19 team. That roster was probably the worst ever for USA/NBA and was poorly coached as well.

What do you think about Olympic hosts?
Any thoughts that since France will be hosting the Olympics they send a somewhat lesser team to the WC. Perhaps purposely to get some of the younger players experience?
Or some of the stars/vets just don't think it is worth the effort when they know they will have the Olympics the following year? Gobert would be the prime candidate for this.

I still have a hard time thinking Wembayama will play as the the Home overall draft pick. And NBA club is going to push really hard against that (his agent too).