The future of the Turkish NT

[Toruko]

You mean this team will have a chance to show up on the stage in two years, right?

Sure, there is no doubt.

Seriously, your optimism is always over the top and I like optimistic and passionate posters, but "able to beat anyone" is another exaggeration off course.

Just as you were too optimistic in 2019 saying that 2022 EB will be Turkey's tournament.

Nope, this is a very common expectation.

I was never optimistic in 2019 because the team was very limited. 2022 was clearly the wrong team but nevertheless the team showed it can keep up with any big team in the tournament. This team will be no comparison to the team in two years.

SOA, I'm not sure I see starting level 2. Korkmaz may be very close to that, and I think ATM he's either boderline or true starer. So maybe Korkmaz in an answer for this decade at 2. Bitim from what I've seen, and may seen too little, is a scorer, but not exactly complete piece at 2. To be a starter you have to be complete player at 2, IMO. Something like Siskauskas, De Colo, Navarro. To me Bitim seems like shooting first swingman.

OK, lets take a look at the competition in the best European teams at that time. Who will be there. Will it be Siskauskas, De Colo or Navarro? It will be guys like Grigonis, a 34 year old Sloukas, Bogdanovic who has knee problems all the time, Evan Fournier. Nothing to worry. In whole Europe there will be guy who can be seen better than Korkmaz or Bitim except Fournier or Bogdanovic.

FOA, there's no point guard. ATM your absolutely best shot is to go with foreigner once again, but that works rarely. Absolute majority NT which wins medals have their own studs at this position.

The Turkish NT is even without a Calathes, Micic level PG able to score and it will just get much better than 2022.

There's no staring 3. I could see Buyuktuncel becoming starting 4, but I don't think he's 3. Osman is a role player by all means. If you ask him to do too much, it will be a failure again.

What am I asking? Osman will be the fifth scoring option or lower in such a team and I dont see a better SF either in Europe. Dont give him the ball in decisive moments and thats it. Buyuktuncel can play in the perimeter as well as in the paint and he is right now able to defend most of his competitors in the BSL and he is right now able to score.

Both Sengun and specially Bona are centers. There's no doubt about it. Sengun may play some 4 too, but not a great fit.

You are thinking too much in templates. There is no reason of not being able to work to together and even if the team would need a true floor stretcher, the team will have more than enough from four position and five.

Generally speaking, there's no definite answers at 1-3. More like a bunch of role players. From your prospects there's no single 1-3 players drafted or having indisputable upside to be elite EL piece.

There are with Cedi Osman and Furkan Korkmaz two guys who could play for elite EL teams. Korkmaz will probably return by then to Europe and Bitim who I expect to become a very good EL level player too by then. Even now Bitim is the best two way forward/guard type player outside of EL and with a much better Buyuktuncel in two years its the complete package.

Aside frontline ( think Sengun, Bona, Buyuktuncel) are elite pieces and that should do it, there's no true studs in the backcourt and that's why there's no objective point to claim anything about future success. More like Turkey is not competition for such countries as Spain, France, Serbia (as always).

Sure, the accumulated states will be building the front line in the rankings and they always were able to be beaten a couple month ago and the Turkish team showed enough that it can compete with them. I think your way of thinking is that my claim is the Turkish team is in front of those teams. No, but there is no reason why the Turkish team cant beat them. Its a very deep and talented team which will be much stronger in two years.

The point of success is not the number of star power but a balanced team which can answer to every need and this team can give an answer to every need. Let me give an example. Sengun had a slow start but a good overall show up. The problems with him and with Sanli were that they cant guard guys like Nurkic, JV or Jokic. Sanli is too weak and too slow for fighting such guys under the rim and Sengun even if strong enough in two years is not tall and athletic enough and in addition to that there is no wingspan to help him out. A real problem and a point of attack which could be seen in the Qualification game against Serbia in Turkey.

An answer is a rim protector and a help defender which is Bona. He is a rim running big man without a main weapon in the offense but Seng?ns passing can utilize him well and Bona can clean up the mess Sengun is causing in the defense. Its surely not a perfect fit until Sengun can stretch the floor but it will work.

As in terms of perimeter defense and shot creation this team is also very capable. There will be no match in two years except the 3-4 countries you mentioned.

[Straight forward]

Oh I wouldn't take it like this. Not old Bogdanovic or Fournier will be best SGs in Europe in 2025. It will be positionless freaks, extremely long and skilled swingmen (if you like), like F. Wagner, Banchero, Pokusevski, (maybe even Buzelis already).

The problem with Turkey that there's no perimeter players who can build the identity for your NT. Turkey traditionally lacking traditional Euro PG, guys with tremendous IQ, facilitators. You usually have shooters, but lacking complete players. Hedo is the only exception in your BB history. The only elite, high IQ, complete perimeter player. So position 1 is your biggest problem. You don't have guys who would brake and make your one sided offensive identity. OK, I'm fine with Korkmaz at 2, but there's no game changer, no floor general.

Spain has Nunez, Lithuania has Jokubaitis and Buzelis, France has Killian Hayes (who's braking out ATM) and Maledon, Cissoko and so on and on and on, Serbia has Micic, Poku and Durisic, Slovenia has at least 3-4 elite perimeter prospects, Germany has Wagner, Italy has Banchero (even if that's not entirely fair, but at least he has some connections with the country). Turkey simply does not have game chancing ball handler/facilitator. There's no truly elite perimeter prospects in Turkey. Korkmaz and Cedi are nice, but not game changers. Buyuktuncel is not a perimeter player.

To be close and to win are 2 different things. Teams like Latvia, Turkey and even Lithuania are good examples recently. Better teams simply win close games. That's how it usually is. It's not like you create good team and sweep everything. You create the good team and you win close games and step on the podium with medal. Being close can be little flattering. You're on the losing side.

You think you can win without fundamentally sound ball handlers, facilitators, elite decision makers. I claim it's basically impossible. Even naturalized Americans with high IQ is very rare. Brown is an exemption and for him it took half a decade to crack EL/FIBA ball. I don't treat Larkin/Wilbekin as elite decision makers/facilitators, they are elite scorers, ISO guards. Turkey badly need former kind of players, not the latter. And locally there's no such material, at least not in the horizon now (unless there's still something in Akay).

With that said, Turkey will be better in 2025- 2030 than you have been 2017-2022. But I don't see pieces that you truly need to change your BB culture which starts with elite decision making and facilitating perimeter players.

[Toruko]

Spain has Nunez, Lithuania has Jokubaitis and Buzelis, France has Killian Hayes (who's braking out ATM) and Maledon, Cissoko and so on and on and on, Serbia has Micic, Poku and Durisic, Slovenia has at least 3-4 elite perimeter prospects, Germany has Wagner, Italy has Banchero (even if that's not entirely fair, but at least he has some connections with the country). Turkey simply does not have game chancing ball handler/facilitator. There's no truly elite perimeter prospects in Turkey. Korkmaz and Cedi are nice, but not game changers. Buyuktuncel is not a perimeter player.

First of all Buyuktuncel is both. He is being used as 3 and 4 and sometimes even as 5 but thats not the point. Nunez has shown nothing so far. Sure he is a talented passer but he is struggling scoring wise. To expect him to lead in 2024 is just a dream. Jokubaitis is a player that you are massively overestimating. As I told you before he is a fairly bad perimeter defender and offensively he has no extinct weapons. He is not carrying a team he wont do it in the future and he is not such a type of player. This Buzelis kid is playing in a very low level and you are calculating with a kid who has never come playing for any of your NTs. Let him show something in higher level games then we can talk about his impact.

Slovienia surely has some perimeter player that I like very much but in terms of bigs and 3-4 position players it is fairly blanc. This invincible Slovenian team was beaten by Poland and Bosnia.

Wagner is not a carrier either. Yeah he shot very well and he is really big and can move very well but he alone is not a factor. He is a very good wing defender and he can use his speed and good footwork to go to the rim but what you saw in Germany this summer was a fluke. The point is Germany is also very deep like the Turkish team and has various options. Very good perimeter and wing defenders and even a rim protector with Kleber, Bonga and Wagner, stretching and passing bigs, enough play making and self created shooting quality with Maodo Lo, and a elite slasher with Schr?der. Germany is surely dangerous but not better than the Turkish team in the future.

Banchero is truly different than the others, thats really true. I mean he is fucking huge, Lebron covers insanely much space but Banchero is also tall and he can move with the ball and can pass and he has also shooting upside. He has the whole package.

When we come to the Turkish 1-2 positions. Bitim is right now a far better player than Korkmaz. Writing Korkmaz is nice with letting Bitim aside shows that you dont know about the Turkish team right now. With the play making options you are definitely right. There is much hope with Akay. He hasnt shown anything so far and after two knee injuries we simply cant know his level but like I told you before too this gap can be filled by Larkin easily. He is more than enough making plays. He had more assists than Jokubaitis as I had proclaimed before the Eurobasket.

You are too fixated on perimeter players. Greece had two of them with Calathes and Sloukas and probably the best player in the world with Giannis and got 107 points against Germany? According to your logic they must have won easily. In order to be successful you need every element. Lets take Spain. A very good general defender like Garuba, a specialized perimeter defender like Alberto Diaz a very solid low post scorer with Hernangomez and very good overall role players around who can go to the rim as well as shoot.

If Spain didnt have Alberto Diaz for example Spain wouldnt have won 3 games. He had 3 clear game finishing moves also against LTU.

To be close and to win are 2 different things. Teams like Latvia, Turkey and even Lithuania are good examples recently. Better teams simply win close games. That's how it usually is. It's not like you create good team and sweep everything. You create the good team and you win close games and step on the podium with medal. Being close can be little flattering. You're on the losing side.

This is surely correct but you dont get the reasons why this is so. Turkey and LTU are lacking elite defensive stoppers, experience and winner players who can finish the game. LTUs perimeter defense was horrible so ours. You on the other hand had very capable and ready bigs and our bigs looked not very ready and Sengun was too young. The problem is clear. LTU must always choose between offense and defense. If you put Sedekerskis, Ulanovas or even Butkevicius you lose critical offensive power. What you lack is beside a finisher a guy who can make an impact on both ends and for the Turkish side you cant expect a good defending team with Tuncer, Mahmutoglu and Korkmaz. This was an ok offensive team but the defense was more than shit. A better team we could see in the last window. Ataman is learning and this shitty defensive team wil change with the better versions of the current guys Buyuktuncel and Bona.

The Turkish team lacks a star. Thats a point but there are many teams with this disadvantage. We hope Sengun can get to a borderline allstar player with some defensive deficiencies like your Sabonis is but the weapon of the Turkish team will be the deep roster with various players. A balanced offense and defense with all needed elements to be successful.

You think you can win without fundamentally sound ball handlers, facilitators, elite decision makers. I claim it's basically impossible. Even naturalized Americans with high IQ is very rare. Brown is an exemption and for him it took half a decade to crack EL/FIBA ball. I don't treat Larkin/Wilbekin as elite decision makers/facilitators, they are elite scorers, ISO guards. Turkey badly need former kind of players, not the latter. And locally there's no such material, at least not in the horizon now (unless there's still something in Akay).

With that said, Turkey will be better in 2025- 2030 than you have been 2017-2022. But I don't see pieces that you truly need to change your BB culture which starts with elite decision making and facilitating perimeter players.

Like I said you are too fixated on one element of the game. If good decision makers would be enough Greece must have won everything so far. They have two guys better than Brown and the best player in the world right now and Greece couldnt even get a medal. Why so? Its easy. They have too few players who can play on both ends and they lack shooting.

Alberto Diaz and Garuba were much more impactful than Brown could have been in the decisive games.

[Straight forward]

First of all Buyuktuncel is both. He is being used as 3 and 4 and sometimes even as 5 but thats not the point. Nunez has shown nothing so far. Sure he is a talented passer but he is struggling scoring wise. To expect him to lead in 2024 is just a dream. Jokubaitis is a player that you are massively overestimating. As I told you before he is a fairly bad perimeter defender and offensively he has no extinct weapons. He is not carrying a team he wont do it in the future and he is not such a type of player. This Buzelis kid is playing in a very low level and you are calculating with a kid who has never come playing for any of your NTs. Let him show something in higher level games then we can talk about his impact.

Slovienia surely has some perimeter player that I like very much but in terms of bigs and 3-4 position players it is fairly blanc. This invincible Slovenian team was beaten by Poland and Bosnia.

Wagner is not a carrier either. Yeah he shot very well and he is really big and can move very well but he alone is not a factor. He is a very good wing defender and he can use his speed and good footwork to go to the rim but what you saw in Germany this summer was a fluke. The point is Germany is also very deep like the Turkish team and has various options. Very good perimeter and wing defenders and even a rim protector with Kleber, Bonga and Wagner, stretching and passing bigs, enough play making and self created shooting quality with Maodo Lo, and a elite slasher with Schr?der. Germany is surely dangerous but not better than the Turkish team in the future.

Banchero is truly different than the others, thats really true. I mean he is fucking huge, Lebron covers insanely much space but Banchero is also tall and he can move with the ball and can pass and he has also shooting upside. He has the whole package.

When we come to the Turkish 1-2 positions. Bitim is right now a far better player than Korkmaz. Writing Korkmaz is nice with letting Bitim aside shows that you dont know about the Turkish team right now. With the play making options you are definitely right. There is much hope with Akay. He hasnt shown anything so far and after two knee injuries we simply cant know his level but like I told you before too this gap can be filled by Larkin easily. He is more than enough making plays. He had more assists than Jokubaitis as I had proclaimed before the Eurobasket.

You are too fixated on perimeter players. Greece had two of them with Calathes and Sloukas and probably the best player in the world with Giannis and got 107 points against Germany? According to your logic they must have won easily. In order to be successful you need every element. Lets take Spain. A very good general defender like Garuba, a specialized perimeter defender like Alberto Diaz a very solid low post scorer with Hernangomez and very good overall role players around who can go to the rim as well as shoot.

If Spain didnt have Alberto Diaz for example Spain wouldnt have won 3 games. He had 3 clear game finishing moves also against LTU.



This is surely correct but you dont get the reasons why this is so. Turkey and LTU are lacking elite defensive stoppers, experience and winner players who can finish the game. LTUs perimeter defense was horrible so ours. You on the other hand had very capable and ready bigs and our bigs looked not very ready and Sengun was too young. The problem is clear. LTU must always choose between offense and defense. If you put Sedekerskis, Ulanovas or even Butkevicius you lose critical offensive power. What you lack is beside a finisher a guy who can make an impact on both ends and for the Turkish side you cant expect a good defending team with Tuncer, Mahmutoglu and Korkmaz. This was an ok offensive team but the defense was more than shit. A better team we could see in the last window. Ataman is learning and this shitty defensive team wil change with the better versions of the current guys Buyuktuncel and Bona.

The Turkish team lacks a star. Thats a point but there are many teams with this disadvantage. We hope Sengun can get to a borderline allstar player with some defensive deficiencies like your Sabonis is but the weapon of the Turkish team will be the deep roster with various players. A balanced offense and defense with all needed elements to be successful.



Like I said you are too fixated on one element of the game. If good decision makers would be enough Greece must have won everything so far. They have two guys better than Brown and the best player in the world right now and Greece couldnt even get a medal. Why so? Its easy. They have too few players who can play on both ends and they lack shooting.

Alberto Diaz and Garuba were much more impactful than Brown could have been in the decisive games.

Dude, Jokuabitis is the best young PG in Euroleague. Has been for 3 years now. I mean what is his competition to begin to downgrade him? 2 years injured Akay? No-one is even close in EL from youngsters to Jokubaitis' readiness. No-one even close. All puppies compared to his readiness and decision making. Jokubaitis has been closing tons of Barca's game already. Some guys never will do it as much in their careers. It's not like he should be some sort of Manu or Parker. Totally taking over. I don't project him something like that. He is the guy who can be something like Jasikevicius (with better defence). Fundamentally sound, perfect decision making PG who establishes perfect team offense.

Nunez is huge. Nothing to take away from him. He was MVP of U20 being 2 years younger. He'll be a baller. Have in mind his age.

Who is carrier if Wagner is not? I mean the guy just scratching the surface. His numbers are nearly equal to Pau's as 21yo rookie in EB. Was Pau not a carrier too? Wagner will be tremendous and game changer for Germany as 2 ways freak. BTW, differently than you, I'm not sure Germany will have what it takes once Schroder will step down.

Buzelis has too many obvious eyes opening advantages to say that he's complete enigma ATM. There's all tools for him to be good. He is registered in FIBA as Lithuanian NT member officially. Off course, he may become some sort of B. Simmons who never comes, but I think he'll play for the NT many seasons.

Greece simply lacking more quality roster ATM and shooting. Sloukas to me is more of a COMBO than PG BTW. I wouldn't want to build around Sloukas as primarily PG. Not for LTU NT. He's more of a rhythm scorer than true facilitator.

Bitim is better than Korkmaz? Are you sure? A guy who scored 0 points in 11 minutes in Eurobasket? OK, he's progressing, but he didn't even played in EL yet. Your problem that you push too many of your favs without any emprical data. Like from Lithuanian section you nearly believed that Rubstavicius and Murauskas could help NT already. They wouldn't. The same way Buy wouldn't help current Turkish NT. IDK how much unleashed Bitim would help, but I really don't think he's better than Korkmaz. At least no single objective prove for that. Let him prove something in EL first.

An no, Diaz was not even close in terms of importance for Spain compared to Brown. Nor was Garuba. Brown was totally key for Spain without a question. If not his ability to run the team, to read mismatches and to make precise decisions, Spain wouldn't go anywhere. He totally closed 8finals against Lithuania, did the same in semis and so on...

Lithuania not only lacking defence, but also perimeter guys who could truly lead like we had in the future with Marciulionis (90s), later Saras/Siska (00's), and even prime Kalnietis (10's). Jokubatis will get there in the future though. And Buzelis has the potential to be indisputable world class perimeter star. To be honest I'm leaning towards the idea to have good starting line-up and few spot on role players than 10-12 average/solid EL players (the team that would probably be considered deep). In other words, give me 3-5 elite pieces and I can live with few defensive mediocrities as my bench. That's how 2017 Slovenia won Eurobasket. That's how Lithuania in 90's had been top 3 NT in Olympics constantly.

[Toruko]

Dude, Jokuabitis is the best young PG in Euroleague. Has been for 3 years now. I mean what is his competition to begin to downgrade him? 2 years injured Akay? No-one is even close in EL from youngsters to Jokubaitis' readiness.

Did you read something like Akay > Jokubaitis? The generational compare doesnt say anything about the value of a player in the ocean of European players. The point is what do you expect from him and what can he deliver? He is a good piece of a bunch of players. He is someone who is needed but he is not a difference maker, at least not now. Lets say he is one of the best of 2000 born player. Does this make him a top player? Not a chance. Lets take Osman. He is piece in the NBA and was one of the best players of the 95 generation. What is his contribution? He is a good piece but the role he has filled out so far was wrong. You see in Jokubaitis a player who he simply isnt.

Nunez is huge. Nothing to take away from him. He was MVP of U20 being 2 years younger. He'll be a baller. Have in mind his age.

He can be huge but not in two years.

Who is carrier if Wagner is not? I mean the guy just scratching the surface. His numbers are nearly equal to Pau's as 21yo rookie in EB. Was Pau not a carrier too? Wagner will be tremendous and game changer for Germany as 2 ways freak. BTW, differently than you, I'm not sure Germany will have what it takes once Schroder will step down.

Germany has enough play making prospects coming. They wont be one of the best slashers in the World like Schr?der but they will survive with their politics of using local players. Germany is a respectable team but we have to wait if they can continue to bring what it takes to be successful outside of Germany. Franz is surely one of the best players in Europe but you cant expect from him shooting like he did in the last summer. You simply cant. He can reach that level but its not sure.

Buzelis has too many obvious eyes opening advantages to say that he's complete enigma ATM. There's all tools for him to be good. He is registered in FIBA as Lithuanian NT member officially. Off course, he may become some sort of B. Simmons who never comes, but I think he'll play for the NT many seasons.

Let him come, let him play and then I will gladly give my opinion about him and the LTU NT. We have a idiom that describes the situation with him very well. We say "what would I do if I had a son and he would die". Get the son first and lets check then again.

Greece simply lacking more quality roster ATM and shooting. Sloukas to me is more of a COMBO than PG BTW. I wouldn't want to build around Sloukas as primarily PG. Not for LTU NT. He's more of a rhythm scorer than true facilitator.

Combo is enough, more than enough and Greece is filled with EL level players. They have two guards who belong to the best in Europe and it is not enough so your thesis of needing a play maker doesnt work. You need one but it alone is not enough. I wrote what you need above.

Bitim is better than Korkmaz? Are you sure? A guy who scored 0 points in 11 minutes in Eurobasket?

The first tournament and a fitting role is very difficult. He was very anxious and not ready. Winning him in this tournament was my hope and it didnt happen. Ataman goes with readiness. He wants to know what he can get out of a player. He is not risking a player who hasnt shown much under him. We did it in the last FIBA window and he will grow steadily.

Korkmaz on the other side is sitting on the bench and waiting for being ditched. If you want success you need someone who has the ball in his hands again and again in crucial situations. Thats the reason why we fail in crucial game endings. The players are not ready for the pressure because they never felt it. And it really doesnt matter if it FCL level or EL or Eurocup. Of course we want him to be in this role one level higher and he will reach that level.

Like from Lithuanian section you nearly believed that Rubstavicius and Murauskas could help NT already. They wouldn't

My approach is to use a not ready guy who is talented over a guy you wont get something out of someone so Bitim over Mahmutoglu and Murauskas over lets say Ulanovas. With Rubstavicius you were right. I overestimated him heavily but it would have been better for you to fail with Murauskas.

An no, Diaz was not even close in terms of importance for Spain compared to Brown. Nor was Garuba. Brown was totally key for Spain without a question. If not his ability to run the team, to read mismatches and to make precise decisions, Spain wouldn't go anywhere. He totally closed 8finals against Lithuania, did the same in semis and so on...

You should really watch the game endings again. Of course Brown was the main decision maker so was Calathes. The main difference is Brown has the material to be successful and Calathes hasnt.

Lithuania not only lacking defence, but also perimeter guys who could truly lead like we had in the future with Marciulionis (90s), later Saras/Siska (00's), and even prime Kalnietis (10's). Jokubatis will get there in the future though. And Buzelis has the potential to be indisputable world class perimeter star. To be honest I'm leaning towards the idea to have good starting line-up and few spot on role players than 10-12 average/solid EL players (the team that would probably be considered deep). In other words, give me 3-5 elite pieces and I can live with few defensive mediocrities as my bench. That's how 2017 Slovenia won Eurobasket. That's how Lithuania in 90's had been top 3 NT in Olympics constantly.

Yeah LTU lacks quality in the 2-3-4 positions and must decide between offense and defense and neither offense guys nor defense guys are difference makers. As I told you that your perimeter defense is bad you claimed that they are not that bad and it was. If you have someone who can create and score at will fine. I have to see it first.

[TurkfromGermany]

Generally speaking, there's no definite answers at 1-3. More like a bunch of role players. From your prospects there's no single 1-3 players drafted or having indisputable upside to be elite EL piece.

My opinion is closer to yours as to Torukos. But you have the general thinking that a Turk cant be a talented bb player. Turkish bb produced the best prospects at SG/SF with Cedi Osman(95), Okben Ulubay(96), Furkan Korkmaz(97), Onuralp Bitim(99)(we can even add Tolga Gecim to the list). But if you dont give any perspective to your young players, then you will lose those talents. My opinion is always the same, you can have 1 time success with luck but if you want be a serious nation then you need EL. Sehmus Hazer played a great championship but ataman gave the bad player Dogus Ozdemiroglu a bigger role in the Belgium game, even that shows we cant take turkish NT too serious. Hazer needs to be a member of your NT for the following years. If we have no studs at SG/SF then its because of our system not because of lack of turkish genes.

[Straight forward]

My opinion is closer to yours as to Torukos. But you have the general thinking that a Turk cant be a talented bb player. Turkish bb produced the best prospects at SG/SF with Cedi Osman(95), Okben Ulubay(96), Furkan Korkmaz(97), Onuralp Bitim(99)

Oh, no, far from that. Turkey has very talented and elite frontline prospects as Bona, Buyuktuncel and Sengun is already elite player. Yes, basically he's already elite and could be unleashed more, but Houston simply doesn't need to rush with it.

My point was that ATM there's no elite perimeter players. Cedi, Korkmaz are generally role players. I wish you would find one and have your national team, not international team as you have had recently.

Overall, we can conclude that NT competition is dead. It's international competition and free market of buying American players which makes whole thing rather pathetic. FIBA destroyed everything. The only ambivalently positive thing left that when national team will beat international teams and win it all, the joy will be even bigger.

[janketa]

I can't understand why morons like Melih and Tuncer have adventage in front of guys like Yiğit Arslan for instance. There are even more good players on that positions in BSL but we stucked with two idiots

[Toruko]

I can't understand why morons like Melih and Tuncer have adventage in front of guys like Yiğit Arslan for instance. There are even more good players on that positions in BSL but we stucked with two idiots

The Turkish coaches know what they can get from Mahmutoglu and trust his experience. If they would use Arslan and the team loses the Turkish press and especially the FB fans would ask immediately why "such a sharpshooter" like Mahmutoglu wasnt used.

Tuncer was simply a mistake thats all he wont be in front of guys like Sipahi or others.

[Toruko]

Sengun seems to have developed a very solid push shot from the mid range area. His fgp is amazing and Silas finally understood that he cant play over KPJ and Green and gave Sengun the ball again instead using him as a rolling big. Sengun is a very good rolling big btw. His elite touch and BBIQ make him really special. Also his timing in the blocks improved but there are also areas where he still needs to improve. One part is positioning. He causes too many fouls because he doesnt know very well how to guard without his hands and everytime he sticks his hands into man there is a danger of fouling and he still needs to get stronger.

One more advantage that I can see is Sengun doesnt need much space to operate. His body has a weird elasticity which makes him able to create shots in tight spaces which again he makes with high percentage. He has to develop an outside shot to become really unguardable but he is still 20 years old so it will come eventually. He has the mental strength and the motor to deliver every night. It is just a question of time that he reaches allstar level.

Nevertheless he is not able to guard top guys like Jokic. Giannis on FIBA courts might be possible because he has no post game and he cant guard post games very well but Jokic is too big and too skilled for him. Generally to get a team a well functioning team without significant weaknesses we need someone who can clean the mess Sengun causes in the defense. Bona is the almost perfect fit and thats why a reliable push shot is so important. Bona has not many weapons in the offense right now but he can position him well for passes and he is a very solid lob target and this is everything Sengun needs.

Bona additionally shows some new upside as a very solid pick and roll defender. His positioning between the guard and the rolling big is still bad but he is getting better and better. Sengun and Bona could be the best fitting big rotation in Europe and I truly believe they will fit very well.

Backups would be in a perfect world Yurtseven, Sanli, Haltali and Yigitoglu so there are many options. I expect greatness of Sadik Emir Kabaca too. He really has everything what a stretch four in the NBA needs to have. He is much more consistent this season and considering the mess GS is having right now he will leave GS at the end of the season. To become a real asset he needs to be better on defense, if he can achieve a level of being a sufficient defender at the top level my god this team will be a hell of a modern team. Ercan Osmani is right now the readier one for sure but he has his mistakes too.

If we consider which is coming from the youth this is really an amazing luxury problem. Buyuktuncel, Yigit Hamza Mestoglu (who shows glimpses of a very solid defender) and my favorite player Kerem Kuthan Konan.

The big rotation is really in very good hands.

For the backcourt there is not much new to say. Onuralp Bitim has been getting more and more experienced and is really good at creating for his mates. Of course not a main decision maker material but he will help a lot coming from the bench. ?mercan Ilyasoglu would be a big surprise if he could make a jump to the NT. Right now he is unusable just a taller Tuncer and nothing more.

I am still very high on the TED guard Omer Yasir Kucuk. Still difficult to say if he is ready for the BSL but he is the best PG in Turkey right now ceiling wise I mean. 2024 he should be an option for the NT. Mert Akay hasnt returned yet and we cant say anything about him right now but if he clicks there is nothing to fear and the team is ready. Up to that date our main guy is Kenan Sipahi and I am sure Ataman learned his lesson. Skill wise he doesnt deserve to be on this skilled team but he is the most ready and the best what we have right now.

Another possible, important piece is the sharp shooter Sarper David Mutaf. Sure is not in the main rotation this season but unlike last season he is getting minutes and is on the verge of getting in the rotation. He made a big jump becoming a pro player. Defense doesnt look that bad either. Not a prospect anymore.

It might still be not enough for the top european teams 2024 (France and Serbia) but for all the other teams there is no reason to be afraid of. I personally think that Italy will be very strong in the future.

[Straight forward]

Bona and Sengun is not a good fit. Both are centers. It's the same situation as with JV, Sabonis essentially, it's just that Bona doesn't have offense at all basically. Bona would be very good fit next Markkanen, not Sengun who can't shoot from three and is best at 5. And it's not like Sengun can really guard mobile 4s.

20yo is still a prospect very much.

It will be very hard to sneak into Olympics. You already lost the chance to sneak through WC and in qualification Turkey won't be favorites.

I understand why you like Italy. Rather similar playing style.

[Toruko]

Bona and Sengun is not a good fit. Both are centers. It's the same situation as with JV, Sabonis essentially, it's just that Bona doesn't have offense at all basically. Bona would be very good fit next Markkanen, not Sengun who can't shoot from three and is best at 5. And it's not like Sengun can really guard mobile 4s.

20yo is still a prospect very much.

It will be very hard to sneak into Olympics. You already lost the chance to sneak through WC and in qualification Turkey won't be favorites.

I understand why you like Italy. Rather similar playing style.

No, its not the same like JV and Sabonis. JV and Sabonis are both bad defenders and non shooters in a team without any floor stretching at least not reliable. The Turkish NT is full of very good shooters and a defensive anchor like Bona is the solution. Bona is also a huge lob target who will be used very well with a passer like Sengun.

Senguns mid range threat is enough to give Bona space to operate but a three point threat would complete everything. Senguns weaknesses on the defensive end with playing four will be diminished by Bona who is one of the best help defenders that I saw. It will work almost perfect.

About the Olympics "you can fail while trying but you have already failed when you dont try". The first qualification group will be easy the second is with solid teams but like I wrote there is nothing to fear.

[Straight forward]

Same thing offensively - clogged paint.

It's not like Sengun is a perimeter, long mid-range PF as some Aldridge. Sengun is highly expressed post player, inside player. From time to time, sure, he can make a jimmy, but it's not like he will be spending his days in the perimeter lobbing offensively skil-less Bona. Offensively there's no solution to play them together except short stretches. You'll have to build around Sengun and get the best from his as he is by far the biggest gem of your bb. Pushing Sengun to 4 just to have Bona at 5, it would be even more idiotic move than to sacrifice Sabonis and push to the 4 position just because there a role player JV.

Were the optimism may come for Turkey is that Sengun-Buyuktuncel and Bona-Buyuktuncel may work a bit better if Buyuktuncel will develop his shot and he can do it to decent extent I think. Then Buyuktuncel may camp at the perimeter providing threes and drives from outside, leaving Sengan dominating the paint.

Again, the luxury of having such players as prime Dirk, Markkanen, Porzingis or even Kleiza, Ilyasova can't be overrated. All these talks how you can integrate 2 huge dudes in the paint, or mid-range area is always doomed to bigger or lesser fail. Specially now-days.

Something like prime Ilyasova next to Sengun would be brilliant. Just as Sabonis would thrive with such player. Those hand offs and instant catch and shoot threes. Deadly.

[Toruko]

Same thing offensively - clogged paint.

Thats why I wrote "almost perfect" and not "perfect".

It's not like Sengun is a perimeter, long mid-range PF as some Aldridge. Sengun is highly expressed post player, inside player.

Basically, this is correct but watch his last 3-4 games and even Eurobasket. He knows that he hasnt the strength to push NBA bigs or beat them with athleticism etc. thats why he plays with a mid range shot and he is very efficient with it. Its like a bucket for him and this helps a lot when it comes to being combined with Bona. Bona will be used as a transition guy. He is like an arrow when you get the defensive rebound and he is a hustler under the rim. His fakes are also very effective to create for himself just it is not translatable for FIBA right now.

From time to time, sure, he can make a jimmy, but it's not like he will be spending his days in the perimeter lobbing offensively skil-less Bona.

Sure, he wont be playing 4 at the whole time but 15-20 minutes with Bona sure. To be more effective Sengun needs an outside shot but he has the rest of the season and a whole summer for it.

Offensively there's no solution to play them together except short stretches.

This is simply not right.

Pushing Sengun to 4 just to have Bona at 5, it would be even more idiotic move than to sacrifice Sabonis and push to the 4 position just because there a role player JV.

Sabonis main problem is he has everything on the offensive end except a mid range or a long range jumper and this is the main problem in the LTU NT. With Sengun it is different in terms of shooting from the mid range and hopefully also from the long range.

Were the optimism may come for Turkey is that Sengun-Buyuktuncel and Bona-Buyuktuncel may work a bit better if Buyuktuncel will develop his shot and he can do it to decent extent I think.

Surely and option, just we dont know how he will develop just in 1,5 years but one thing is clear the Turkish team can score but it cant defend any high pick and roll action, thats why Bona is crucial for this team. He is just as important as Sengun because you play 50% offense and 50% defense. I dont count on him right now. I mean Berke...

Then Buyuktuncel may camp at the perimeter providing threes and drives from outside, leaving Sengan dominating the paint.

Sengun will have his time on five just not the whole time.

Again, the luxury of having such players as prime Dirk, Markkanen, Porzingis or even Kleiza, Ilyasova can't be overrated. All these talks how you can integrate 2 huge dudes in the paint, or mid-range area is always doomed to bigger or lesser fail. Specially now-days.

These guys dont grow on threes and again I have no worries about scoring I want the team to be able to defend and the Turkish team has the material for it.

Something like prime Ilyasova next to Sengun would be brilliant. Just as Sabonis would thrive with such player. Those hand offs and instant catch and shoot threes. Deadly.

Sure but you cant have someone who isnt available. Thats why the whole basketball community expecting him to grow.

[Camoka]

I want to write season evaluation from my point of view before Olympic Qualification 2023.

Şeng?n: Almost a star, we do not have this type of player for a long time.

Osman: Average season

Korkmaz: Too bad, he needs to be traded.

Yurtseven: Injuried, but there is room in Miami for him. Expect good season end.

Şanlı: Average season

Larkin: Injured but he seems good physically. I think will be ready for summer after the third Euroleague championship.

Bitim: Good season, Eurocup MVP caliber.

Kabaca: Good season

Saybir: Good season

Osmani: Average season

?zdemiroğlu: Good season

Uğurlu: Average season

Sipahi: Average season

Birsen: Good season

Hazer: Too bad, coaches continue to use him at Pg.

I do not watch enough Ulubay, Yılmaz and Arslan but statistically good season.

It is enough for Tuncer and Mahmutoğlu. I believe Ataman does not give any minute for Tuncer, Mahmutoğlu can be still in rotation.

Prospects:

Bona: Average season, I expect more from him. Still will be drafted.

B?y?ktuncel: Good for beginning, bad after injury. If he could be consistent, he would be drafted but at the moment, he is losing his minutes in even this bad Tofaş.

Demir: Seems good, he can be average player.

Mutaf: Expected him being role player, but he is like garbage time player.

B?y?kcangaz: He can not get enough minutes. Bad season.