Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Spanish NT 2019

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spanish NT 2019

    Originally posted by usagre View Post
    I agree about Spain. I was probably being generous. I don’t think they are that good anymore.
    I like how people on this board are always quick to disregard Spain as a contender, and announce their inevitable fall from grace. I remember most greek fans after 2006 championship game (that was 13 years ago, fellas) unanimously agreeing Greece was the better team with the brighter future and Spain had just lucked out and would get stomped next year. Not the best prophecy coming from the country of the Oracle, I guess.

    In all these years since 2006, Spain has been the only team playing on an almost equal foot to USA, year in and year out. Other NTs have been able to make USA sweat once or twice, but most of the time they just get run over. Specially Serbia. Not to take away anything from them, I agree they bring the best non-USA roster to this championship. But their record against Team USA is, well, not very good.

    Spain and USA will play a friendly game this weekend. I'm not expecting much, since both coaches won't want to show too much and will keep their best players' minutes to a minimum; but we'll have a glimpse of how this poor Spanish squad matchs up against the top contender.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
    I like how people on this board are always quick to disregard Spain as a contender, and announce their inevitable fall from grace. I remember most greek fans after 2006 championship game (that was 13 years ago, fellas) unanimously agreeing Greece was the better team with the brighter future and Spain had just lucked out and would get stomped next year. Not the best prophecy coming from the country of the Oracle, I guess.

    In all these years since 2006, Spain has been the only team playing on an almost equal foot to USA, year in and year out. Other NTs have been able to make USA sweat once or twice, but most of the time they just get run over. Specially Serbia. Not to take away anything from them, I agree they bring the best non-USA roster to this championship. But their record against Team USA is, well, not very good.

    Spain and USA will play a friendly game this weekend. I'm not expecting much, since both coaches won't want to show too much and will keep their best players' minutes to a minimum; but we'll have a glimpse of how this poor Spanish squad matchs up against the top contender.
    Well, as I argued, Spain is arguably the best team out there after the USA if they show up with a full roster. But some disagree. I don't know about this team. But my guess is that this Spanish team can not be underestimated.
    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
      I like how people on this board are always quick to disregard Spain as a contender, and announce their inevitable fall from grace. I remember most greek fans after 2006 championship game (that was 13 years ago, fellas) unanimously agreeing Greece was the better team with the brighter future and Spain had just lucked out and would get stomped next year. Not the best prophecy coming from the country of the Oracle, I guess.

      In all these years since 2006, Spain has been the only team playing on an almost equal foot to USA, year in and year out. Other NTs have been able to make USA sweat once or twice, but most of the time they just get run over. Specially Serbia. Not to take away anything from them, I agree they bring the best non-USA roster to this championship. But their record against Team USA is, well, not very good.

      Spain and USA will play a friendly game this weekend. I'm not expecting much, since both coaches won't want to show too much and will keep their best players' minutes to a minimum; but we'll have a glimpse of how this poor Spanish squad matchs up against the top contender.
      I don't see where you felt like someone underestimates Spain. The majority of the people here consider Spain as an equal medal contender, along side (imo) with serbia, France Lithuania.

      Now, if you mean that with the word "contender", you feel like there are chances for gold, that is an illusion for any team, not only this year, not only for Spain, but for everyone, for 12 years now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Valexander View Post
        I don't see where you felt like someone underestimates Spain. The majority of the people here consider Spain as an equal medal contender, along side (imo) with serbia, France Lithuania.

        Now, if you mean that with the word "contender", you feel like there are chances for gold, that is an illusion for any team, not only this year, not only for Spain, but for everyone, for 12 years now.
        Well, I was replying to a post where the case was made that Spain had no chances against USA. I'm not even saying that Spain is going to earn a medal this year. There are a lot of teams more than capable of taking us out even before the QFs. Just pointing out that Spain has been matching up pretty well against USA for a long time, and almost for that long, we had doomsayers on this board predicting Spain's failure. So let's see, a team on paper may not seem like much, but resilience, chemistry, coaching and peaking at the right moment are all factors much more important than just piling up talent from 1 to 12.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
          Well, I was replying to a post where the case was made that Spain had no chances against USA. I'm not even saying that Spain is going to earn a medal this year. There are a lot of teams more than capable of taking us out even before the QFs. Just pointing out that Spain has been matching up pretty well against USA for a long time, and almost for that long, we had doomsayers on this board predicting Spain's failure. So let's see, a team on paper may not seem like much, but resilience, chemistry, coaching and peaking at the right moment are all factors much more important than just piling up talent from 1 to 12.
          You need to see the brackets, or else i am afraid it's only you that underestimates Spain. The "more than capable teams" which can leave Spain out of the semis are: Italy, Argentina, Russia, Nigeria, Poland, China.

          On the other hand, losing to any US team, was never a failure for anybody. It is common sense in any given day, and that's beyond any team chemistry, coaching or individual form.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Valexander View Post
            You need to see the brackets, or else i am afraid it's only you that underestimates Spain. The "more than capable teams" which can leave Spain out of the semis are: Italy, Argentina, Russia, Nigeria, Poland, China.

            On the other hand, losing to any US team, was never a failure for anybody. It is common sense in any given day, and that's beyond any team chemistry, coaching or individual form.
            Italy has the perfect recipe to beat Spain: lots of shooters and good team defence. Depending on other results, they may prevent us from advancing to the QFs. And in the QFs, unless we can beat Serbia we will be facing the best team from groups A and B. Russia can beat us if they catch fire. Argentina is always competitive and has good guards. Nigeria is a wild card, they surely have a lot of talent and athleticism and it's just a matter of playing under control and following the plan. Losing against any of them doesn't seem far-fetched to me. I mean, our 2014 squad was stacked and still lost to a less talented team, although better coached. I of course have faith we will at least reach semis. I'd rate us as the 2nd best team on our side of the bracket, behind Serbia. That doesn't mean we're a lock to make it. It would be very, very disappointing to see Serbia failing to make it to the medal round; but only mildly disappointing if Spain misses out.

            Anyway, I also do not consider it a failure to be beaten by Team USA. I'd like to see a close game, though. Make them earn it. I was just making a broad comment, since just before every tourney there's people predicting a bad result for Spain, and claim they're no longer as good as before. And they're usually proven wrong, so maybe after all these years Spain should be given a less hasty evaluation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
              since just before every tourney there's people predicting a bad result for Spain, and claim they're no longer as good as before. And they're usually proven wrong, so maybe after all these years Spain should be given a less hasty evaluation.
              Yeah and it's been Pau Gasol that has proved them wrong. This group is older and not as talented as previous teams. In general I don't think there are a lot of strong teams in the field so Spain will be grouped right there with them but they are not a serious threat in my opinion against the US and I would also bet a long shot to make the Final.
              Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by usagre View Post
                Yeah and it's been Pau Gasol that has proved them wrong. This group is older and not as talented as previous teams. In general I don't think there are a lot of strong teams in the field so Spain will be grouped right there with them but they are not a serious threat in my opinion against the US and I would also bet a long shot to make the Final.
                I can buy less talented. But older? Do you even know who is on the roster?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah I know who is on the roster that matters.
                  Marc Gasol, Rudy Fernandez, and Sergio Llull are three of your top 4 most important players and they are old. Rubio and the Hernangomez bros are prime. Even Claver is in his 30's.
                  You don't think that's an old nucleus ? What are you gonna give me an average age of the roster which is calculated by guys are gonna play little to no minutes ? What value does that have ?

                  Pau Gasol has been the most consistent best FIBA player probably ever.
                  If you think he won't be missed your nuts. When I think of a Pau-less Spain the underachieving
                  2010 Worlds team comes to mind. This team resembles that more than any Pau led teams.
                  Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by usagre View Post
                    Yeah I know who is on the roster that matters.
                    Marc Gasol, Rudy Fernandez, and Sergio Llull are three of your top 4 most important players and they are old. Rubio and the Hernangomez bros are prime. Even Claver is in his 30's.
                    You don't think that's an old nucleus ? What are you gonna give me an average age of the roster which is calculated by guys are gonna play little to no minutes ? What value does that have ?

                    Pau Gasol has been the most consistent best FIBA player probably ever.
                    If you think he won't be missed your nuts. When I think of a Pau-less Spain the underachieving
                    2010 Worlds team comes to mind. This team resembles that more than any Pau led teams.
                    No, you don't really know who is on the roster. For the 2016 Olympic Games we brought a team with Calderón, Navarro, Reyes and Pau Gasol, all 34 or older. This was one of the main problems of that squad, by the way. Only Pau deserved a spot, everyone else was just dragging the team down but still invited since there was an understanding between federation, coaches and players that the members of the Golden Generation would have a spot on the team until they retired. Now tell me how we can get older than that.

                    Then, Marc is 34 but still one of the top centers in the competition. He's backed up by young Willy Hernangómez so his minutes can be limited and I don't expect his age to be any kind of issue. Then you mention Rudy and Llull, who still have to make the team. They probably will due to lack of competition. I admit Rudy is showing his age, and is quite likely he would have had a very reduced role if Abrines was available. Llull, if fully recovered, would be the first guard off the bench. That's it.

                    Top 4 players for Spain are Marc, Rubio and the Hernangómez brothers. Yes, we have a bunch of players around the 30yo mark, but that's an improvement over previous tournaments. I'm not saying this squad is not old (although being born in the 80s I prefer the term mature :P), just not older.

                    Another clue: most of this year's subs are no spring chickens neither. So I was never going to bring up "average age" as a metric. The only young player other than the H brothers would be Jaime Fernández, who projects as the 5th guard. The core of the team going forward would be Rubio-Abrines-Juancho-Mirotic-Willy. This year Marc is still better, though, and Mirotic and Abrines are absent. So, not really worried about Rudy and the gang getting older.

                    I never said that Pau won't be missed. But you should consider 2014 Worlds, with Pau in great shape, we got exactly as far as 2010. Wish we could have him back, sure. But we have to move on, and most other teams are also missing some of their best players.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Semantics. Old, older. Just compare the ages of your key guys with that of Serbia, France, and the US. The other top contenders and tell me what you see.

                      Mentioning that Pau was 34 in 2016 as if it was some kind of negative is silly since that Pau would be the best player on your team in this years version. Reyes was a bench player in that tournament and was like 7th or 8th in minutes. I am talking about the top main 5 maybe 6 guys that will play the majority of the minutes and have the main role and say on what you will accomplish. Bringing up Calderon again shows me you are having difficulty with the concept. He was on the roster but barely played so he and his age are irrelevant.

                      The 2016 team is vastly superior to this one it's not even close.
                      Again compare the top 6 or so guys and see for yourself.
                      Marc Gasol is old and even at his best he has never been as good for Spain than in NBA, Rudy is old and half the player he used to be. Lull is not that far removed from that serious injury and he is in his early 30's.
                      Your nucleus is old or older than the other teams that are considered serious medal contenders.

                      Forgot to mention Greece with core of Giannis,
                      Calathes, Sloukas and Papanikolaou all 30 and under.
                      Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        @ Darrell Armstrong

                        Give me your to 8 or 9 Spain players,
                        Starters and rotation, maybe minute estimate.
                        Maybe I am missing something.
                        Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by usagre View Post
                          Semantics. Old, older. Just compare the ages of your key guys with that of Serbia, France, and the US. The other top contenders and tell me what you see.

                          Mentioning that Pau was 34 in 2016 as if it was some kind of negative is silly since that Pau would be the best player on your team in this years version. Reyes was a bench player in that tournament and was like 7th or 8th in minutes. I am talking about the top main 5 maybe 6 guys that will play the majority of the minutes and have the main role and say on what you will accomplish. Bringing up Calderon again shows me you are having difficulty with the concept. He was on the roster but barely played so he and his age are irrelevant.

                          The 2016 team is vastly superior to this one it's not even close.
                          Again compare the top 6 or so guys and see for yourself.
                          Marc Gasol is old and even at his best he has never been as good for Spain than in NBA, Rudy is old and half the player he used to be. Lull is not that far removed from that serious injury and he is in his early 30's.
                          Your nucleus is old or older than the other teams that are considered serious medal contenders.

                          Forgot to mention Greece with core of Giannis,
                          Calathes, Sloukas and Papanikolaou all 30 and under.
                          I'm sorry but if you claim that our 2019 team is "less talented and older" than 2016 or 2017 squads you cannot complain if I point out that those squads were, in fact, full of semiretired players. Also, please have in mind that age, in a vacuum, is a very poor indicator of success. So it's a bit of an empty exercise to compare the age of the core players from different contenders. Specially if you consider the very small number of games involved. Due to our light schedule we only need to go all out for 4 games: one in the 2nd phase to earn a QFs berth, and then the final three. Load management is also simpler this year as Marc has a very good backup in Willy Hernangómez. You can quote me on this: Willy will be the top scorer for this squad.

                          Again, I don't see why you fail to grasp that the core, or nucleus, of this team does not include Rudy or Llull. The latter may not even play, he's recovering from minor injuries and although expected to make the final 12, could likely experience a setback and be left out of the final roster. As I said before, the top 4 players this year are Rubio, Marc, and the Hernangómez brothers.

                          About this squad being less talented than previous encarnations: you are completely right. Team USA doesn't hold a candle to any of the Redeem Teams neither.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by usagre View Post
                            @ Darrell Armstrong

                            Give me your to 8 or 9 Spain players,
                            Starters and rotation, maybe minute estimate.
                            Maybe I am missing something.
                            Starters: Rubio - Rudy - Juancho - Claver - Gasol.
                            Subs: Colom / Jaime Fernández - Llull / Jaime Fernández - Beirán - Oriola - Willy
                            Towel boy: Pau Ribas.

                            Regarding minutes, I expect an even split between starters and substitutes for the first round. In closer games I think Rubio and Juancho will get almost 30 minutes of burn, as their replacements are the most suspect.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
                              Starters: Rubio - Rudy - Juancho - Claver - Gasol.
                              Subs: Colom / Jaime Fernández - Llull / Jaime Fernández - Beirán - Oriola - Willy
                              Towel boy: Pau Ribas.

                              Regarding minutes, I expect an even split between starters and substitutes for the first round. In closer games I think Rubio and Juancho will get almost 30 minutes of burn, as their replacements are the most suspect.
                              bro, barcelona, in general, has very good sports program. i can't imagine spanish basketball and its program without barcelona. look at this team, rubio, colom, oriola, ribas, rabaseda, and marc gasol.
                              Attack
                              defend
                              Unite

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X

                              Debug Information