2024 Lithuanian NT

[Straight forward]

Toruko, as I posted previously, there's very little to none 23yo PGs who would be main guys for elite teams. All these Papaloukas, Diamantidis, Jasikevicius and so on started to make more consistent numbers with bigger roles only at 24 at best. But most importantly the context of the team is the key. Jokubaitis to certain extent is hold back a little bit. If you would give him bigger role, he would provide. Actually he proved that even in his first season for Barca when Calathes was injured. Barca kept winning with Jokubaitis providing bigger numbers. It's a blessing in disguise while playing for top club. Jokubaitis could provide those numbers that I wrote already for Zalgiris. But sticking with Barca now at the highest level I think he still learns more and prepare himself for elite basketball better than he would playing for Zalgiris. That's debatable though. And, again, you have to follow Jokubaitis closely. At the start of the season it was felt he's in position to challenge Sato for the key role at 1. That confidence and cheekiness and solidity was at all time top. The season is not over. Again, to me, you can go one or another way, but I judge what's with you when you are 25-26yo. At that time you should be really delivering.

Shawshank, I didn't put Rokas to the same tier as Doncic or even Rubio. My point is, none other young players other than those 3 had so many clutch performances for top EL Spanish clubs and so important and consistent roles as youngsters. And you can't ask from Jokubaitis to be the key PG already. No matter his experience, Satoransky was legitimate NBA player, he's not like random piece out there. And why would 23yo Jokubaitis be better than prime Lapro who is playing his life time basketball now? He's not a back up for Argentina, he would be flat our second best guard after Campazzo, next him. Jokubaitis is till 23yo, however you look at it. He had a good WC performance and I have zero concerns about him. He's getting there and NT performance is the best proof. Even when he's not scoring, he facilitates the right way, he plays within the flow perfectly and so on. I'm more concerned with Brazdeikis. He needs to score, he's a scorer. If he doesn't score, you don't get anything else much from him.

ATM, NT is not in legitimate position to fight for medals. Not objectively. Not saying it's impossible, but today to win medals is much harder than in 10s and I think even harder than in 00s. But also you have to realize that Jasikevicius was playing in Olimpia before joining 2000 NT and braking out in the knock out stage. He wasn't even in EL yet.

[Shawshank]

I repeat by basketball experience Jokubaitis is not 23.Half of euro league 25 old players has less experience on highest quality than him.

Count euro league season experience too not just age.

Jasikevicius first season in euroleague was at 23 , Jokubaitis at 23 is already have 100 euroleague games under his belt.

Jokubaitis already now have more experience on highest levels than 24 old Jasikevicius had before 2000 Olympics.

those who started euroleague at 18 should show results earlier than who started at 23.

When Doncic destroyed ltu in 2021 nobody was saying Luka is just 22. Yeah sure mathematically is correct but that 22 old had already 6 seasons and 200+ games on very highest levels

All timers grabs spotlight fast or they won't be all timers just good players.

That's why knowing history I don't like it' that after 3 seasons Rokas still is 15 min role player and loses direct competion not even to elite fiba guards

FIba medal winners have clearly better guard leaders than 31 old Sato or Campazzo backup

Jokubaitis was good in world champ yes by weak ltu guard standarts, but compare his stats to best guards of 2023 tournament very average at best.

you comparing Jokubaitis to ltu standarts,I'm comparing to world standarts

[Straight forward]

It would be great if Jokubaitis steps up even more and brings NT to the next level, like medaling level. It's possible, but I don't see it like this. I think we will be slowly building as a NT, will be adding talent each year and only at the end of next Olympic cycle we'll get so good that we will be able to contend completely fairly and objectively. In other words, I think it will take for us to have a really GREAT team to win next medals. Not solid, not good, but great. That's my gut feeling. FIBA competition gotten all time most competitive, NBA MVP level players are around like Jokic, Giannis, Doncic, SGA, Embiid and Americans. Soon Wemby will be like that and so on. The times when luck was on our side ended. It's just my guess, but I think we will win something only when we will have potentially all time best NT and that might happen in 2028 or 2029 as I see it. It's way unfair to ask 23yo Jokubaitis to bring LTU NT on his shoulders to medals in this stage. It's not 2015 when you have to take down Serbia in the semis who's second best player is freakin' Raduljica...Current NT would love to be in 2013 and 2015 Eurobaskets...one of the least talented ever...

[Dreamcatcher]

What's the reason of belittling 2013-15 NT all the time? Even when nobody mentions that team? What kind of complex do you have?

And by the way. That team wouldn't be swept by Serbia and Latvia so disgracefully. Period.

[Toruko]

From what you have written about Jokubaitis a random reader would have said he will be the next Vasilje Micic (at least). Now you are talking. Of course he can be a good piece in a good NT at least if you have a good all around guy and a killing scorer. A guy who can grab rebounds you have with Sabonis. What you need is a big who can protect the rim preferably a complete defender who can guard five positions who can nullify pick and roll action, protect the rim, switch etc.

From what I saw in the last U-EC competitions I liked these guys

Motiejus Krivas - very interesting and mobile offensive big
Paulius Murauskas - A hell of an ISO scorer who is too stiff on the defensive end but great body, should work on his shot from the range.
Liutauras Lelevicius - I always loved that guy - perfect size for a wing, has high energy, can score in multiple ways, very resilient driver who can absorb contact, dont like his defense but he is ok. Shows flashes of creating his own shot.

Kasparas Jakucionis - not a good play maker, plays too much with the ball but has good slashing abilities and can go to the rim very easily.

Shortly said the lithuanian U teams didnt show anything really promising in the guard positions

This kid from the States, Buzelis, looks really interesting and could really become a difference maker but his dedication to the NT is a question mark.

[Straight forward]

From what you have written about Jokubaitis a random reader would have said he will be the next Vasilje Micic (at least). Now you are talking. Of course he can be a good piece in a good NT at least if you have a good all around guy and a killing scorer. A guy who can grab rebounds you have with Sabonis. What you need is a big who can protect the rim preferably a complete defender who can guard five positions who can nullify pick and roll action, protect the rim, switch etc.

I wouldn't say Micic. I would like Jokubaitis to be like Jasikevicius was in 2003 EB. Scoring wise nothing spectacular, 14ppg, but 8.2asp and that's only partial reflection how much he controlled the tempo, how well he facilitated and so on. Jokubaitis shouldn't be some kind of hero, just great facilitator in the first place.

LTU virtually might have all possible pieces - traditional PG, "Curry/Lillard" type PG, defensively minded guards, versatile SGs, pure scoring SG, spot up wings, versatile offensive and defensive forwards, mobile bigs, traditional big, but there's no dominant rim protector, modern defensive 5 a la Bam or Green or Capella. Hard to find to find that breed among white dudes. Javtokas was close to this to certain extent and off course young Arvydas was prodigy at both ends of the floor. BTW, young and athletic Motiejunas was pretty damn good defender too. Tubelis is interesting, but his lateral quickness is not perfect and his motor is very inconsistent, moody fella

=
Shortly said the lithuanian U teams didnt show anything really promising in the guard positions

Depends what you call really promising. If you were looking for some-one like Topic, lottery pick material, or overall sure-fire NBA guard prospect then yes, but if the standards a little lower then Lelevicius, Jakucionis, Indrusaitis, Buika are all elite Euro guards.

[Toruko]

I wouldn't say Micic. I would like Jokubaitis to be like Jasikevicius was in 2003 EB. Scoring wise nothing spectacular, 14ppg, but 8.2asp and that's only partial reflection how much he controlled the tempo, how well he facilitated and so on. Jokubaitis shouldn't be some kind of hero, just great facilitator in the first place.

Todays BB is different. Guards decide the end of the game with ISO plays. You need a killer guard. Thats it and Jokubaitis is not the answer for that need.

Depends what you call really promising. If you were looking for some-one like Topic, lottery pick material, or overall sure-fire NBA guard prospect then yes, but if the standards a little lower then Lelevicius, Jakucionis, Indrusaitis, Buika are all elite Euro guards.

Lelevicius is not a PG, Jakucionis is not a good guard, Indrusaitis is an interesting scorer. I dont remember Buika and labels like 'elite Euro guards' are again very misleading. They are guys with potential, loads of three star guys. LTU development lacks of creating four or five star guys for the guard position thats the main issue.

TU virtually might have all possible pieces - traditional PG, "Curry/Lillard" type PG, defensively minded guards, versatile SGs, pure scoring SG, spot up wings, versatile offensive and defensive forwards, mobile bigs, traditional big, but there's no dominant rim protector, modern defensive 5 a la Bam or Green or Capella. Hard to find to find that breed among white dudes. Javtokas was close to this to certain extent and off course young Arvydas was prodigy at both ends of the floor. BTW, young and athletic Motiejunas was pretty damn good defender too. Tubelis is interesting, but his lateral quickness is not perfect and his motor is very inconsistent, moody fella

The problem is the trade off you need to accept and which kills both BB countries in important games. I know what I am talking about because we have been facing the same problem to a deeper degree.

The best profiles of the game of basketball right now are. A defensive big with fast legs who can protect the rim the paint and also the perimeter. A stretch four who can put the ball on the floor and attack the rim and ideally grab some rebounds an all around SF who can do everything to a certain degree especially pick and roll initiation, an 3-level scoring who can at least stay in front of his opposing player and a guard who can create for others AND for himself.

You have many good but one sided guys, similar to us.

[Straight forward]

Todays BB is different. Guards decide the end of the game with ISO plays. You need a killer guard. Thats it and Jokubaitis is not the answer for that need.

Are Lorenzo Brown or Rubio exactly that kind of players? IMO, not. They are more like methodical, all around fundamentally sound PGs who exploit p'n'r opportunities and manipulate the defenses with it in the first place. If extreme ISO scorer would be a must, most European countries would be screwed cause they don't have such type of talent in majority of cases and second rate American naturalization also works rarely for them. Nevertheless such countries as Spain, France dominate because of other things, because of depth, chemistry, team culture. Also it shouldn't be guards necessary. Look at USA 2020 NT. It was Durant that led them (Tatum also was very impactful). So have versatile forwards (off course I'm referring to Buzelis who beat the buzzer beater tonight). And that team stands as the best FIBA team in last 4 years. If Buzelis shows up, NT most likely will have reliable true go-to option as he's world class (5 stars) talent.

Lelevicius is not a PG, Jakucionis is not a good guard, Indrusaitis is an interesting scorer. I dont remember Buika and labels like 'elite Euro guards' are again very misleading. They are guys with potential, loads of three star guys. LTU development lacks of creating four or five star guys for the guard position thats the main issue.

Nope, all 4 guys that I mentioned would be 4 stars guards in USA. Indrusaitis is, we now it for written fact. Others on the same tier, so it's definitely not a three stars prospects, no idea where you get that.

https://247sports.com/Article/four-star-shooting-guard-nojus-indrusaitis-breaks-down-iowa-state-commitment-201188873/

You have many good but one sided guys, similar to us.

Disagree. Not only we have 2 way players in generally 1-4 positions (with a little drag up here and there), but the key point is that Lithuania's prospect talent pool is way ahead Turkey ATM and it's not even close. Today France, Spain, Serbia, Lithuania are head and shoulders above any other country in terms of prospect power. When it comes to guards, I even think that Lithuania may be leading (Brazdeikis, Jokubaitis, Giedraitis, Rubstavicius, Marciulionis, Lelevicius, Jakucionis, Indrusaitis, Buika and wing Sirvydis, if you gonna mention Biberovic, are all 4 stars youngsters generally and EL material, and some guys might even have a shot in NBA in certain stretches of their careers). Turkey always was inferior to Lithuania in terms of talent. There was no stretch of modern history when Turkey had superior talent than Lithuania, only in 10's the gap was smaller, but soon it will be widened to more or less status quo which was in 90s and 00s. That's why Lithuania only once missed Olympics and Turkey never made it, and stands as second most consistent Olympic team after USA.

The only advantages that Turkey will have in comparison to LTU will be Sengun who potentially will be better player than Sabonis and Bona as modern defensive 5. But generally ATM I don't see how Turkey could compete with LTU heading forward. Not the same tier teams.

[Toruko]

Yeah thats why you lose most of the U Tournaments against Turkey

[Straight forward]

Yeah thats why you lose most of the U Tournaments against Turkey

Not the ones with stud guards as 2002 Rubstavicius, Marciulionis or 2006 Jakucionis, Indrusaitis But wins or loses mean little in U-level. Ultimate goal is the success of senior NT.

[Toruko]

Not the ones with stud guards as 2002 Rubstavicius, Marciulionis or 2006 Jakucionis, Indrusaitis But wins or loses mean little in U-level. Ultimate goal is the success of senior NT.

When you talk about guards you need to consider their capacities to give the ball a direction. Marciulionis is a joke as a guard. I dont even consider him as a serious player.
Rubstavicius is a good defender with good shot creation potential FOR HIMSELF

The last two are also not play makers and 3 guys are really good euro guys but no studs.

Its all about finding 4 or 5 star guys.

Turkey found

2002 Sengun (five stars)
2003 Bona (five stars)
2004 Buyuktuncel (four stars)
2006 Dogan even though a long term prospect (at least four stars

LTU found
2004 Buzelis (five stars) even though dedication is more than questionable Krivas (four stars) Murauskas (four stars)

In comparison to guards
If Marciulionis is a stud. 2007 born Derin Can Ustun is the next Diamantidis and 2005 born Tunca is the next Papaloukas. I am not even talking about Saran etc.

[Straight forward]

When you talk about guards you need to consider their capacities to give the ball a direction. Marciulionis is a joke as a guard. I dont even consider him as a serious player.
Rubstavicius is a good defender with good shot creation potential FOR HIMSELF

The last two are also not play makers and 3 guys are really good euro guys but no studs.

Its all about finding 4 or 5 star guys.

Turkey found

2002 Sengun (five stars)
2003 Bona (five stars)
2004 Buyuktuncel (four stars)
2006 Dogan even though a long term prospect (at least four stars

LTU found
2004 Buzelis (five stars) even though dedication is more than questionable Krivas (four stars) Murauskas (four stars)

In comparison to guards
If Marciulionis is a stud. 2007 born Derin Can Ustun is the next Diamantidis and 2005 born Tunca is the next Papaloukas. I am not even talking about Saran etc.

I can only say that there's no ground to even compare current and upcoming young Turkey's talent with current and upcoming young LTU's talent, specially when it comes to 1-4 position. Only 5 position of Turkey is truly world class with Sengun/Bona. Not saying that Turkey can't be competitive, but that's two different weight classes of basketball and in the second half of 20s it will be more than evident. Lithuania has several times deeper talent depth. It's not even a discussion.

[Toruko]

I can only say that there's no ground to even compare current and upcoming young Turkey's talent with current and upcoming young LTU's talent, specially when it comes to 1-4 position. Only 5 position of Turkey is truly world class with Sengun/Bona. Not saying that Turkey can't be competitive, but that's two different weight classes of basketball and in the second half of 20s it will be more than evident. Lithuania has several times deeper talent depth. It's not even a discussion.

Change LTU and Turkey in your sentences and its correct

[Straight forward]

Change LTU and Turkey in your sentences and its correct

Let's just enjoy the vacation, shall we

[Toruko]

Let's just enjoy the vacation, shall we

Of course!