2024 Lithuanian NT

[Hepcat]

In my opinion, maybe there have been too much negativity about NT recently and Kuz talked about it. This summer was different and NT fans gave a lot of positive feedback to the team. That's important, that's important to grow and value that growth of our own, cause the worst thing what can happen is linking NT with only stress and negativity. In tournaments when there's too much pressure and only negative feedback from society our results are bad, even worse than our status quo capabilities (2011). In my opinion NT received too much hate in 2016-2021 period. And here my attitude is changing.... I think this negativity and increased attention and following by media made more harm than good, now players feel those high demands and condemnations much more than previously, they use social media and all them read comments. I have no doubt that the record of absences have a lot to do with that. Why should I risk my body, emotions and time which I can dedicate to my family for just to receive a lot of hate and negativity?

Agggghhhh! But with respect to heaping abuse upon (certain) Lithuanian players you yourself have been the single worst offender on this forum for several years!

Now we have a coach who makes a joke of the NT with Cizauskases and Maldunases....

And you're still doing it! No better PF/C than Gabrielius Maldūnas was willing to compete for his slot at camp. And no, that youngster who limped into camp with two sprained ankles was most certainly not a better pick.

[Hepcat]

I think it's time to change approach to teams selection. It's better to take young and hungry studs rather old useless scrubs. Guys like Kariniauskas, Normantas, Žukauskas, Maldūnas or even Dimša and Bendžius should not be nowhere near NT. Coaches must take 7-8 proven players and add 4-5 young guys. This would make interesting combination of experience and youth.
For example our experienced core can be this:
PG Jokubaitis
SG Grigonis
SF Brazdeikis, Butkevičius
PF Sedekerskis, Kuzminskas
C Sabonis, Valančiūnas

Add young guys like those:
PG Marčiulionis
SG Rubštavičius, Sirvydis
C Tubelis

But there is one big problem. Next summer team will have so little time to prepare for qualifiers, so again there will be bunch of so called "experienced" shity LKL players in NT

I disagree. The national team is not a training exercise. The best available players regardless of age should be selected.

[Hepcat]

While Maksvytis missed or ignored tons of talents and he didn't care. He ignored Sirvydis in 2022, cut Sedekerskis, in 2023 cut Tubelis, D. Giedraitis, ignored Marciulionis and generally Rubstavicius (who could receive direct ticket to the camp basically).

With the exception of Tadas Sedekerskis not a single one of the players you mentioned above showed enough in 2022-23 to merit inclusion onto Team Lietuva in 2022-23. And Sedekerskis was a lot better in 2023 than he was in 2022. Moreover both Deividas Sirvydis and Dovydas Giedraitis have now stumbled out of the gate in the 2023-24 season. You might want to wait until these and other players put up some good numbers before touting them as bonafide candidates for the national team.

[Straight forward]

Agggghhhh! But with respect to heaping abuse upon (certain) Lithuanian players you yourself have been the single worst offender on this forum for several years!



And you're still doing it! No better PF/C than Gabrielius Maldūnas was willing to compete for his slot at camp. And no, that youngster who limped into camp with two sprained ankles was most certainly not a better pick.

This has nothing to do with offending. Who is Maldunas in NT context? Something really really bad, or trash as Americans say. That's true, that has nothing to do with being incorrect. Maldunas is useful player for such club as Liekabelis, but he shouldn't even be close NT. That's national team after all which should dictate certain level and Maksvytis doesn't understand that it seems. Did Maldunas help in WC? No, not even close. He had no chance against Serbia. Zero. My point about NT is that fans should avoid insulting, direct messaging to players (as in Kariniauskas case), to do not spit all the emotions on instagram pages of players and so on. I never do that. If I see Zemaitis in NT, I will say - this is a shitty move, but it will have zero to do with insulting players. I will say JV is horrible p'n'r defender and that has zero to do with anything cause JV knows is perfectly well himself.

[Shawshank]

Dinoosur expert


When im judging NT coach i judge how they worked with top 9 players from nba/euroleague

You judging caoch how they working with 11-18th spot players


Adomaitis lose to Greece in 2017 (who finished 8th) was way bigger collapse/failure than loosing to 2022 Eurobasket gold medal winners and loosing to 2023 Silver medal winners in playoofs.

My opinion Maksvytis > Adomaitis and its not even close



Kurtinaitis is like 63,he is already older now than Kazlauskas was in 2016 and he didnt work with high quality team for 3 years.He is name from past not real modern coach it would be clear downgrade

But yeah something like Zibenas,Kuritinaitis.Seskus lkl coaches will be choosen and they are clearly worse than todays euroleague coach who made top 8 with like 12-14th best euroleague roster.

Even our federation gets it and thats why they allowing euroleague coach not being part in window games .If they will start saying something they simply gonna lose euroleague coach and will get lkl coach instead in main fiba events too.


You simply ignoring reality of coaches levels only because your feeling is hurt because euroelague head coach chooses players that can help in next 2 weeks games more than go with your fantasy rebuilding 3-4 years plans in men NT with raw youngsters


Im told you 2 years ago here when Kazys was hired he is not knowns for using youngsters and happend exactly that

Same will happen in 2024 when there will be no real preparation time.He clearly will go with players from 2022/2023 NT

[Straight forward]

I'm not saying Adomaitis is better coach than Maksvytis. They are more or less on the same tier. But to me it's important NT culture. I don't even feel that we have a head coach. I feel like we are leasing the coach who coaches in big tournaments. To me head coach of NT absolutely must control and project whole LTU BB vision. If he doesn't do that, he's not the head coach. The head coaches were Garastas, Kazlauskas. I believe Saras would do that, he wouldn't ignore talent. Taking Jokubaitis to Barca and give him so much responsibility in year 1 requires guts. Maksvytis doesn't do that and he is not handling the whole process. He's too busy and that's not his style. And that's shitty situation. These 3-4 pieces is not just like what can be useful in this tournament, but it is also what will you have in next 2 tournaments as well. If you shit on your head in 2022, you better be know what's coming in 2023 and 2024 (and now 2025 cause Maksvytis shitted on his head in 2023 as well).

You also ignore 2 things. Maksvytis had much better team, specially 2022. And that Maksvytis lost to Slovenia in 2022 group stage. We had to take that game.

I personally don't understand why to celebrate the fact that slightly better coach as Maksvytis (slightly better than say Adomaitis, Kemzura, Kurtinaitis, Zibenas) coaches NT while we losing. We still losing. Where's the benefits? And the worst thing we have no vision and ignore talent that we could at least prepare for future big wins. But, no, we lose and waste time in terms of adding talent. I don't like this situation. I much rather take any young coach who wants to build long term, who dedicates himself 100% to the NT, who will lose just as Maksvytis did, but he will add pieces that have to be added and work with all the talent pool we have. You say Maksvytis chooses players that can help now, but that's not true. They can't help. Simply can't. I don't understand how people ignore this thing. They say - youngsters can't help. Yes, most likely not. But those who going instead of them definitely can't help and they didn't. It's funny how little people pay attention that those "experienced" scrubs never help with some super super rare exception as Juskevicius in 2014. They simply don't. And that's when coaches look silly with their arguments. It doesn't work. When you invest to talent, you at least really make an investment and soon it will be beneficial. When you take experienced scrubs, you have nothing now, and nothing in the nearest future. Simple logic.

[Straight forward]

Another big problem with Maksvytis and overlooked thing (from today's perspective) that he cut Sedekerskis in 2022. He was legitimate EL combo forward. There's little difference between 2022 and 2023 Sedekerskis. He had to be taken. Be he was benching him on the bench and played his loved Zukauskas in FIBA windows and took Zukauskas to Eurobasket. Good performance by Sedekerskis in 2023 is big rebuke to Maksvytis. We can see that Sedekerskis potentially could be different maker defensively in 2022, just as he was against Montenegro. He could slow down Cancar, or F. Wagner who dropped +30 against us, and specially he could be good fit against Garuba in most important game. When we look at the most important game of WC against Serbia, we have Sedekerskis as the best player with 21eff. He basically looked like the only one ready to match Serbians intensity at both ends. And Maksvytis cut that kind of piece from 2022 roster for scrubs. This is, IMO, intolerable and red flag mistake.

All this makes me think Maksvytis has been a mess with the NT so far. It's interesting that he not even considered retiring. Sabonis couldn't hold out Adomaitis from retiring in similar situation.

[Shawshank]

One coach is top 8 euroleague coach,other is top 4 japan league coach. Tiers is not same

Rosters for both Maksvytis and Adomaitis was very similiar.One tournament had 95% of best players,in other tournament had around 50% of best players. Again Kazys not Adomaitis reached top 8 first time since Kazlauskas.

Head coach job is to coach 10 best men lithuanian players .Controling basketball piramid is federation job.

In 90s lithuanian basketball structure wise was in flinstone stage,stop comparing to 2020s times.


Jasikevicius isnt known for using youngsters in real euroleague battles either .Using generation tallent for 15min and using average young tallent is not the same.

Jasikevicius is known for signing 23-26 old not proven players and making from them high quality players,he wasnt using raw 19-22 youngsters in euroleague either like u suggesting always.



Kariniauskas helped more than raw Sirvydis did in 2023. Vysniauskas gave Kariniauskas 7 for the tournament from what was expected. Kariniauskas helped more than Zemaitis,Gustas,Mazutis,Vasiliauskas types of the past backups

You dont understand meaning of word helps for 10-12th players. For deep bench players help is if they manage to do that in atleast one game..Winning muist be done by top 9 players,10-12th must help in some games.Kariniauskas played well in Greece and Usa games.


Maksvytis was a mess? our NT was in games versus best teams and was eiliminated by 2 final teams.

Even with only 50% of best lithuanian players he broken 7 year spell of NT not making top 8. Let alone zalgiris 2023 run.

What Kazys is doing latety he building case for 4th best coach in Lithuania history. Its a mess hapenning in your head not seeing what Kazys did in last few years


He came to NT that missed olympics and couldnt even make top 8

He will leave with NT already made top 8 and maybe making olympics again.If that happens i will rank his job very highly seeing with what average talent he is forced to work on perimeter compared to opponnets coaches.

[Straight forward]

You can't follow this discussion because of 2 things: lacking of analytical skills and you bias, Maksvytis is your ex Neptunas hero.

FOA, again, what's the difference? Maksvytis is working well with Zalgiris, but NT is losing? Where's the benefits of having Maksvytis. Reaching top 8 means little when we had open path for it. He had to beat Montenegro and really really weak Greece who barely survived against NZ and so on. It was B level teams, like Hungary and Bosnia in 2022. That's not an achievement, that's nothing. On the paper 6th spot looks decent for some, but those who watched WC knows we had red carpet for that laid. The only thing that Maksvytis really did in these 2 years is beating USA. USA was not tanking, they played within their 100% capabilities, so that's a real win. Unfortunately it marked with controversy whenever we had to win or to intentionally lose, so even the only positive thing that Maksvytis provided is marked with controversy and disappointment.

Now how in the world you can compare the core of JV, Kuz, Kalnietis 2017 with JV, Sabonis, Grigonis 2022? 2017 was trash compared to 2022 literally. Their 4th best scorer was Adas Juskevicius with 7,2ppg. 2022 team's 4th best scorer was Brazdeikis with 10.7ppg. There's no doubt Maksvytis had absolutely better roster.

You wrong about Jasikevcius. He was always giving chances to youngsters. Like Arlauskas, Uleckas, Jokubaitis in Zalgiris. Then Jokubaitis, Nnaji, Caicedo. I'm not asking consistent playing time, I ask to draw best talent closer to the NT and get their feet wet. Jasikevicius would do that, IMO, and it would give benefits soon.

While when we speak about help it means helping to win NOW. You say that Maksvytis chooses players who he think can help now and that's true. He gave minutes to both Kariniauskas and Maldunas against Serbia and both sucked. Period. Facts. That's so much of helping to win now. It failed. When I speak about helping I look at the most important games and that's knock out stage in this case. He took 2 players who didn't help, that's fact, and we needed their help against Serbia badly. Basketball moving towards 10-11 men rotation in games. The game became so intense and athletic that players can't play 32-36mpg, more like a starter is playing 25-28mpg. Lithuania will benefit so much when we'll have legitimate all EL (at least) level roster of 12 men. Even federations are asking for 14 men rosters now knowing injuries and how intense the game became. So every piece is becoming more and more valuable. What we surely know that Maksvytis took 2 players who were complete zeros against Serbia and helped a shit. I give Kariniauskas credit because of USA, but it's more like USA showed how cocky and funny they are not even scouting their opponents. They would give Kariniauskas what he has the best - slashing to his left and posting up smaller players. But at the end of the day, when we speak about medals and achievements, Karinia and Maldunas were completely empty. Zero help. If we speak about random performances here and there, I don't see how talented youngsters can't provide that. I'm actually almost 100% sure that Tubelis could have showed some real sparkles here and there, and Maldunas was just random guy out there, useless.

2 wasted tournaments, zero credit to the talent which we finally have, no appearance in FIBA window, cut of Sedekerskis in 2022, plenty of lost close games, 1 achievement against USA. That's what I have with Maksvytis. It's been a rough period again and what's the worst we didn't do our home work trying to get out of the hole. That's the saddest part. How federation, BTW, should develop youngsters? They organized reserve NT camp, Marciulionis was clearly the best PG (the most needed position), and Maksvytis didn't even invite him to the camp? Balciunas had to order Maksvytis to invite him? It's on the head coach. He takes responsibility and makes decisions. Maksvytis did it and it ended with being completely toothless against Serbia which was the key game.

[Dreamcatcher]

All this makes me think Maksvytis has been a mess with the NT so far. It's interesting that he not even considered retiring. Sabonis couldn't hold out Adomaitis from retiring in similar situation.

Adomaitis got big irrational hate in Lithuania including you here. After a while you began to speak about him in a way better way.

During the tournament you wrote yourself that Maksvytis took Karianiauskas for a reason and that you had been wrong about that (probably it was after USA game). And now you changed your mind only because of the game against Serbia where almost everybody sucked? And overall do you often see 11th-12th players delivering in play off games?

And why are you writing about Tubelis at all if he anyway wasn't ready and in spite of that he was kept until the end?

[Straight forward]

Adomaitis got big irrational hate in Lithuania including you here. After a while you began to speak about him in a way better way.

During the tournament you wrote yourself that Maksvytis took Karianiauskas for a reason and that you had been wrong about that (probably it was after USA game). And now you changed your mind only because of the game against Serbia where almost everybody sucked? And overall do you often see 11th-12th players delivering in play off games?

And why are you writing about Tubelis at all if he anyway wasn't ready and in spite of that he was kept until the end?

Fair questions.

I never hated Adomaitis. I criticized some of his movies like playing JV in the key possessions (2019) which hurt us directly or making some bad choices (taking both non defensive shooters as Gecevicius, Milaknis into one team). I never was Rytas' hater, so that irrational hate has little to do with me.

As for Kariniauskas as I said I give him credit for USA game, but at the end we got nothing and we have nothing for 2024 PG back-ups. We gonna strike it again with Kariniauskas against Serbia, Spain and all great disciplined teams. It's dead end. Kariniauskas, BTW, was legitimate rotation player in terms of playing time. He was no 11-12th player. It was Sirvydis and Maldunas. Kariniauskas was getting 14,5mpg, just as much as D-Mo and only slightly less than Bendzius and Kuz. Against Greece Karinia played badly, against Serbia as well. That was 2 key games. Against Greece he actually played 18 minutes, that's hell of a lot. Where we are heading with Maksvytis as a head coach? What will he have as a PG back-up? Lekavicius so far looks bad and even if he still has it (which is a question), he doesn't provide D, just as Kariniauskas. I hate Kariniauskas move cause it leaves us flat for 2024. Assume Marciulionis having good NCAA season, coming a strong player, makes the team - it's still his first season and he will struggle, it takes time to make it in the NT. While we sincerely wasted 4 spots like it nothing. And didn't fill a single hole that we have. Maciulionis could easily ride the fucking bench both 2022, 2023 instead of those dead end scrubs. It potentially could be so beneficial that it's hard to measure. Hell, we could even do that with D. Giedraitis or Velicka, it still would be more beneficial, cause even Velicka can play D when he wants to. You simply won't make Kariniauskas and Lekavicius to play D that it's needed. I hate how we tolerate simple waste of spots and time, it's like everything would be perfect with NT and we wouldn't need to move a finger.

You got a wrong impression about Tubelis I believe. Maksvytis admitted that Tubelis eventually shaped up and looked good in the camp. I doubt he said that purposely just to greet Tubelis for loyalty, even though possible. We'll never know how good Tubelis was at the end of the camp cause we didn't see practices, but the reason why he was cut is that he didn't go through whole preparation, doesn't know all sets well and so on. That's what Maksvytis said. I get the impression that it was the same case as with Kariniauskas generally. He made a decision early and didn't even want anyone to stand in his way. I'm less pissed about Tubelis cause more or less Sabonis covers what Tubelis can bring and more off course (even though Tubelis eventually should be better defensively and more agile, faster offensively). But I really hate how we just pushed aside Marciulionis like we would have zero interest about PG position...Intolerable, IMO. Another red flag, just like with the cut of Sedekerskis in 2022. When one of the reserve NT coaches says "I would had taken Marciulionis to the main camp" it says a lot...But, no, Maksvytis has his own world class studs that he locks without any competition and he doesn't even see a need to look at least a bit to the future...all good

I'll quote what Mindaugas Noreika said:

Gal galėtumėte išskirti žaidėjus, kurie verti atskiro paminėjimo ir galbūt negavo tokio dėmesio, kurio nusipelno?

Kaip ir visada, nesinori kažko išskirti iš komandos, bet aš asmeniškai labai džiaugiuosi už Augustą Marčiulionį. Jis tikrai atvažiavo būdamas kitame lygyje, atrodė solidžiai ir rungtynėse visi tą matė. Tai tik mano asmeninė nuomonė, bet, man atrodo, kad Augustą galėjome bent porai savaičių pajungti ir prie pagrindinės rinktinės. Ne dėl to, kad jis patektų į galutinį dvyliktuką, bet tam, kad kažkiek paaugintume tuos tikrus savo įžaidėjus.

Visi kalbame, kad įžaidėjo pozicija yra probleminė. Ir ne tik Lietuvoje. Ispanai pernai Europos čempionatui natūralizavo Lorenzo Browną, nes patys neturėjo įžaidėjo. Atrodytų, duodami galimybę pasportuoti papildomai su pagrindine rinktine, sužaisti dar 1–2 kontrolines rungtynes, Marčiulioniui ir visam Lietuvos krepšiniui padarytume naudos ateityje. Toks būtų mano pamąstymas ir vizija.

Mums labai padėjo Einaras Tubutis. Jis traktuojamas kaip vėlyvos brandos žaidėjas, bet tikrai turi duomenis, ilgas rankas, gerą metimą iš perimetro. Tas pats Laurynas Beliauskas, Ignas Sargiūnas. Praktiškai visi neiškrito iš konteksto ir buvo verti dalyvauti pirmojo etapo Lietuvos rinktinės stovykloje.

https://sportas24.lt/krepsinis/rezervines-rinktines-treneriu-stabo-narys-apie-lietuvos-talentu-tobulejima-ir-atsaukta-krepsininko-medaus-menesi/

[Shawshank]

From 4 Zalgiris lithuanians Ulanovas,Butkevicius,Dimsa,Lekavicius

Lukas is 2nd most paid but he is clearly 4th best in Maksvytis eyes and its already big streach over a year to judge from



Ulanovas is selfish towards NTs,but damm on the court having Ulanovas+Butkevicius is a joy to watch : smart,tough,strong,will defend anybody

Two captain type characters that never loosing their minds and all game long giving suggestion to teammates,knows how to communicate with refs.

Simply winning players


what zalgiris trio Smit,ule,arnas doing physicality wise in last 6-7 minutes to even euroleague teams wow.

Zalgiris was behind in score like 70min of 80min played in first 2games and is 2-0

[Straight forward]

Maksvytis' kick to Sedekerskis' butt looks more and more impressive with each day. Rebounding champ in EL so far and cooking around 20eff per game. Red carpet to stud Zukauskas. Maksvytis is a stud in the NT.

[Hepcat]

First of all I'd like to say that I have no dog in this disagreement as to whether Dainius Adomaitis or Kazys Maksvytis has been the better Team Lietuva coach. I've not been a critic of either. Nonetheless, I can't allow some of the statements that have been made about Coach Maksvytis to stand unchallenged.

Did Maldunas help in WC? No, not even close.

He was the twelfth man. Their contribution is usually marginal. That's no surprise.

Moreover, Coach Maksvytis had no better choice for a fifth big. Artūras Gudaitis and Laurynas Birutis both declined the invitation to compete for a spot on the team and Gabrielius Maldūnas ended up outcompeting Donatas Tarolis for the final spot. Ąžuolas Tubelis might have been competitive but he limped into camp with two sprained ankles that he'd hurt dicking around in some summer circus. I would have simply told Tubelis to go home but I guess Maksvytis kept him around hoping that Tubelis might learn something for next year.

But you already know this so why are you still kvetching?

IIt's funny how little people pay attention that those "experienced" scrubs never help with some super super rare exception as Juskevicius in 2014. They simply don't.

1. You make it sound like Adas Juškevičius was a grizzled veteran of 35 when he was taken in 2014. He was not. He was 25.

2. He wasn't a scrub. He proved that very decisively with his play. Though taken as the thirteenth man still standing, he quickly emerged as Team Lietuva's starting PG in the tournament.

When you invest to talent, you at least really make an investment and soon it will be beneficial. When you take experienced scrubs, you have nothing now, and nothing in the nearest future. Simple logic.

Coach Maksvytis has invested in talent. He's taken the best available for the team. Your complaint is that he hasn't taken certain of your young favorites for the very good reason that they've not demonstrated that they belong with the other players taken. Diversity hires may be in vogue elsewhere (you might though ask Budweiser how that's worked out for the company recently), but they certainly don't work in basketball.

And you might perhaps explain the mechanism by which an unqualified player with potential (at least in your eyes) will after being locked on the bench for five games somehow acquire the skills to be a contributor in twelve months time. Playing dozens of games over the course of a season is rather the route to skills development.

Let me repeat, national teams don't compete in a developmental league. Get good elsewhere; then apply.

Another big problem with Maksvytis and overlooked thing (from today's perspective) that he cut Sedekerskis in 2022. He was legitimate EL combo forward. There's little difference between 2022 and 2023 Sedekerskis. He had to be taken.

Absolute nonsense! Tadas Sedekerskis was a much better player in the summer of 2023 than he was in the summer of 2022. The facts speak for themselves:

Year & League	Games	Minutes	EFF
2021-22 ACB	35	14:42	6.4
2022-23 ACB	24	20:40	11.9
2021-22 Euroleague	29	16:22	7.7
2022-23 Euroleague	23	18:15	9.7

Sedekerskis was still tentative and afraid of making mistakes in the summer of 2022. Moreover he had trouble adapting to different team defensive concepts than he was used to at Vitoria.

I just don't understand why the obvious needs to be repeated to you over and over again.

They organized reserve NT camp, Marciulionis was clearly the best PG (the most needed position), and Maksvytis didn't even invite him to the camp?

Nonsense. Coach Maksvytis did invite the best PG from the reserve team to the main camp. And that was Matas Jogėla who was being tried out in the PG slot during those games. Jogėla had noticeably better numbers than did Augustas Marčiulionis.

Assume Marciulionis having good NCAA season, coming a strong player....

That though would be a big jump for Marčiulionis because he's not even been mediocre in his first two NCAA seasons. And that's the main reason why Coach Maksvytis didn't invite him to the main camp.

As for Kariniauskas as I said I give him credit for USA game, but at the end we got nothing and we have nothing for 2024 PG back-ups. We gonna strike it again with Kariniauskas against Serbia, Spain and all great disciplined teams. It's dead end.... I hate Kariniauskas move cause it leaves us flat for 2024.

I don't believe in cherry picking games. I look at averages. But if you're going to cherry pick, the game that Lithuanian basketball fans will remember in 25 years time will be the victory against the United States in which Kariniauskas starred. Winning against the United States is tough and is therefore a rare thing. But Lithuania has had several big victories (and of course losses) against Serbia.

Overall though, Kariniauskas was the second best guard after Rokas Jokubaitis on Lithuania's 2023 roster. (Ignas Brazdeikis played exclusively at SF.) Be nice if you just admitted it and moved on.

Secondly on the basis of very preliminary early results from the 2023-24 season, Kariniauskas is off to an excellent start and still looks like the leading candidate for the backup PG position next summer.

Adomaitis got big irrational hate in Lithuania including you here. After a while you began to speak about him in a way better way.

During the tournament you wrote yourself that Maksvytis took Karianiauskas for a reason and that you had been wrong about that (probably it was after USA game). And now you changed your mind only because of the game against Serbia where almost everybody sucked?

And why are you writing about Tubelis at all if he anyway wasn't ready and in spite of that he was kept until the end?

Precisely!

[Straight forward]

Hepcat, just stop it, bro. Just don't do it.