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  • #31
    Originally posted by LuDux View Post
    So what? We need as many magic saviors as possible
    You would better care how to justify your goat Maksvytis. He is criticized all over for loose defense, no ideas how to end the game (pretty much "improvise") or inability to prepare the team against box and 1 defense.

    One thing that I learned from this tournament - liberal bb works, but only to certain extent. We needed more guidance and frame cause at times we looked like teams that I often mention in a negative context.

    Shawshank,

    Yes, shooting is a problem, but I think spacing with Sabonis/Tubelis would still be much different than with JV/Domas. Both guys can drive, pass and they are incomparably quicker decision makers. So our offensive dynamics and spacing would still be improved. When any of your big can feel comfortable in the middle or off short role and distribute the ball quickly or drive, you have offensive flexibility, plus Tubelis can make mid range jimmy. So is Sabonis in NBA, but in FIBA he doesn't take it. Maybe if he would camped at 5 for good, he would feel more comfortable with his shot as well. So offense will improve a bit, but I think the defense will improve a lot. Tubelis not only can cover 4 I think, but he can provide a lot of help defence to 5 as well. He can switch. So we could have mobile defence, collapsing on the right players - unit that could switch all and provide mobile help defence.

    I would see such picture: Domas playing the 5 (and only the 5) for 26min. JV 14min at 5. At 4 we have Kuzminskas for 16-18min. Tubelis for 16-18min (the rest for one of Sedekerskis, Bendzius, Zukauskas, Kulboka, Murauskas, Orelikas or who ever).

    So we have a little bit of both. Playing with the stretch 4 and Tubelis who could improve our defence, and athleticism and passing.

    To some extent we shouldn't overrate shooting. Germany didn't have great shooting bigs as well, but their D was good and their offense dynamic enough to win it all. Actually their bigs even lacked a bit of driving and scoring inside ability which Lithuania doesn't lack. VOIGTMANN theoretically is a good shooter, but he didn't shot much and not too well, except good game in small final.

    If can add defensively competitive big (Tubelis) and a guy who could bite some-one like Brown (next year it will be Rubio) for some 10-15min of super intense defence (D. Giedraitis or Marciulionis), we make certain improvement. It's not complete game changer, but it's a step forward.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

    Comment


    • #32
      Kuzminskas to me reminds D. Lavrinovic. At some point he was treated as irrelevant player who can't play in summers. Kuz also had disappointing campaigns in 2019, 2021, but then he delivered as a vet! Just as D. Lavrinovic did in 2013. Or say Songaila did it in 2012 when he was better than expected. Never underestimate vets in in their 32-34 stretch. Specially those who can shoot. Off course, our D with Kuzminskas is really really trashy. But well he shot threes 50% and delivered 18pts against Spain.

      The story is that Kuzminskas, Brazdeikis, Jokubaitis, Lekavicius, Sabonis delivered against Spain. What we missed was Valanciunas and Grigonis. The choke of 2 most reliable players "on the paper" was really painful.

      And we should part ways with R. Giedraitis already. The guy is horrible at both ends. He was hurting NT all tournament long basically and if after 3 horrible tournaments in a row we again will go for it, I won't understand that. For what kind of privileges he gets the green light while he gives ZERO to the NT?
      LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

      Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
      Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
      Buzelis, Lelevicius
      Murauskas, Sirvydis
      Tubelis, Krivas

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
        You would better care how to justify your goat Maksvytis. He is criticized all over for loose defense, no ideas how to end the game (pretty much "improvise") or inability to prepare the team against box and 1 defense.

        One thing that I learned from this tournament - liberal bb works, but only to certain extent. We needed more guidance and frame cause at times we looked like teams that I often mention in a negative context.
        You forgot to mention his ugly face
        The Moon Is A SCAM(http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)!

        Comment


        • #34
          dinosour expert once again you showing your clueslesness nobody will play nba starting 4 center for 14minutes and some ncaa kid for 16min

          Tubelis will get Zukaukas/Echodas place in 10-12 men rotation first 1-2 summers if he will make the team, but not Valanciunas minutes.

          There are matchups where Valanciunas will play atleast 25min.

          Valanciunas averages 32min and was clearly top 3 player in NT 2022 and he gonna average 14min next summer for same coach?

          common dude grow up and put atleats some objectivity or its useless to even argue with this nonsenses.


          LTU 2022 played 4 playoofs type games againts 4 semifinal level teams if u arent able to see thats your blidness of zero objectivity.

          Those 2 most reliable players was not on paper but on 5 of 6 eurobasket 2022 games ltu played.Well regarded sport person Vysniauskas ranked ltu players in this eurobasket 2022. Do you know who got biggest marks for entire tournament? Grigonis and Valanciunas.

          Because he gets what scariola defensive plan was and is not fooled just by one game .

          NT need shooting badly. We cant be bottom 5 in shooting again and again and imagine things will go diffrently.When even very average NT showed in last few tournaments good shooting always will give you a chance,doesnt matter what weak spots NT have

          For me shooting nr 1 problem our NT need to improve. This is fixable,weak defense in this roster not really, too many weak defenders in all positions.
          Last edited by Shawshank; 09-20-2022, 08:39 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Passport expert, It was my suggestion, the way I would do it. And it's pretty realistic. Do you still believe that playing with JV we can play winnable basketball? Which NT winning with defenseless old school lumberjack? There's no such team. Gebert is miles better than JV defensively. Willy is much more mobile at both ends. If Maksvytis won't make any changes, he will just be ruining his career. I have no doubt he'll make some adjustments and JV has been one of the worst defenders in the entire tournament, he was constantly attacked.

            My thesis is that if we don't improve the D, we can't win. No other way around. Because only 2 ways teams winning now. When Slovenia fucked up with the defence they went down on a ridiculous fashion. I don't remember when only offensive team won something. We have to have a team which plays defense and off course we have to make adjustments.

            Not shooting, but defense was our main problem, we could stop no body, specially down the stretch. Lithuania shot thees better than Spain in that game. 36%, 11 threes. That's solid. Spain only 22,6% and 7 threes. But we couldn't stop their p'n'r game, we barely could stop anything. 102 points for opponents is way too much. Our shooters provided, Kuz 4, Iggy 3, Lukas 3 threes.

            We desperately need to improve our defense, I don't know what you're watching. We were top 5 scoring team during the tournament and ended up as 6th team. And our opponents were champs Spain, Slovenia, France, Germany, Bosnia.

            Ulanovas, Tubelis, D. Giedraitis in can improve our defense in 2023 already (I do believe that Jokubaitis and Bazdeikis will be slightly better defender after another year).

            Now about important things. Maksvytis won't coach NT in windows now, it will be Kemzura. It's awkward, but I hope we'll get that spot, we need one one.

            Ulanovas says that he doesn't know about 2023 yet. He will make a decision at the end of the season. Something like that.

            Maksvytis believes D. Giedraitis can play in EL already and will get his chance. It will be very easy to monitor whenever D. Giedraitis can be NT role player for 2023 or not.

            Now Maksvytis will have a good defensive team with Zalgiris. Let's see if it's a roster's or coach's problem. I think the former. I see some upside in Maksvytis, but he has to show that he's learning and growing as a coach.
            Last edited by Straight forward; 09-20-2022, 03:13 PM.
            LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

            Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
            Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
            Buzelis, Lelevicius
            Murauskas, Sirvydis
            Tubelis, Krivas

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Shawshank View Post
              dinosour expert once again you showing your clueslesness nobody will play nba starting 4 center for 14minutes and some ncaa kid for 16min
              JESUS CHRIST be careful, or he will set the limit at 11 minutes!
              The Moon Is A SCAM(http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by LuDux View Post
                JESUS CHRIST be careful, or he will set the limit at 11 minutes!

                Honestly, if SF wasn't that dead serious with his posts, I'd imagine he was trolling us all with his JV hate or has some personal axe to grind with the guy lol

                Comment


                • #38
                  If hardcore Raptors fans could deal with reality despite JV's super cool personality, why can't you, guys? You should be ashamed. The basketball with JV is not a winning basketball. The only time Raptors did it, it was the season when they trade him for a guy who can play defense and read the offenses:

                  LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

                  Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
                  Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
                  Buzelis, Lelevicius
                  Murauskas, Sirvydis
                  Tubelis, Krivas

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
                    If hardcore Raptors fans could deal with reality despite JV's super cool personality, why can't you, guys? You should be ashamed. The basketball with JV is not a winning basketball. The only time Raptors did it, it was the season when they trade him for a guy who can play defense and read the offenses:

                    https://twitter.com/benmyers29/statu...84594348945411
                    Raptors won that chip because of Kawhi playing out of his mind during the playoffs, not because of the mystical Gasol lockdown defense when he barely even played in the playoffs in favour of much more mobile modern big Ibaka...but you already know that, but it interferes with your agenda to kick out JV of NT as soon as possible. It's still funny how our NT plays better defense overall when JV is on the floor though, if only because of his awesome rebounding lol

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by madmax View Post
                      Raptors won that chip because of Kawhi playing out of his mind during the playoffs, not because of the mystical Gasol lockdown defense when he barely even played in the playoffs in favour of much more mobile modern big Ibaka...but you already know that, but it interferes with your agenda to kick out JV of NT as soon as possible. It's still funny how our NT plays better defense overall when JV is on the floor though, if only because of his awesome rebounding lol
                      My idea is that we can't win with JV. Also the problem is that Sabonis is trashy defender too. He's not so horrid as JV, but nevertheless bad one too. Thus I really don't see how we can win things with them and specially JV. We need defensive bigs (at least one) who we could play at 5, or say 4 if he can provide good help defense. Our defense with him is not better. Teams closed the games on him literally in 2019, now he also let Brown get it going in the OT. It's not only on JV, but no-one winning with such dudes anymore. Scariola plays Garuba in the crunch time. Willy, pseudo MVP of Eurobasket chilling. We have to have unit who could make some stops down the stretch if we want to have a chance. With JV/Sabonis frontline we are butt naked and it's a mission impossible to win it basically even if we playing well offensively.

                      It's not about kicking some-one out, it's about how to make winning NT.

                      Thus, the addition of defensive big and defensive guard is a must.
                      LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

                      Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
                      Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
                      Buzelis, Lelevicius
                      Murauskas, Sirvydis
                      Tubelis, Krivas

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        NT is not clubs when you can buy tottaly new team in one summer,NT its what you have best at that time and NT plays accordingly.

                        We dont have elite playmakers or elite shooter or elite defenders all those dinosour experts imaginable playing style is just fantasies as always.

                        Only cluesless crazy fans can believe playing players from lkl or ncaa instead of nba starting 5 players will help our NT to win


                        Dinosour expert i have bad news for u can cry all you want here but next summer Jonas and Domas again gonna play 25min+

                        Because they are nr 1 and nr 2 ltu players at this moment in time.

                        Can coach find better defensive rotation according to opponents for last 5-6minutes sure,but first 33-34minutes nothing will drastically change.

                        NT was very close in 2022. With all 3 medalist teams we played till last seconds with 2 overtime games included.

                        Keep on building,stay the course,bring a 1-2 new littles pieces in 9-12 rotation players place with needed skillsets and go to war again in 2023 with hopefully one year smarter Jokubaitis/Brazdeikis/Grigonis desicions in game endings.
                        Last edited by Shawshank; 09-23-2022, 09:59 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          You have a sloppy mouth, calling this and that fantasies, but at the end of the day you feed what I preach. It's just that you're so slow that for you things must bump into your forehead. Your "passport" mind and lack of actual observation and interpretation of players don't allow you to see things. You're just watching at players age or whatever. I would suggest to seek actual scouting, direct observation. Not age, but actual level, IQ, decision making, offensive and defensive abilities matter. That's why you were completely lost with Iggy when you said he's 4 and I was repeating he can even play 2, he's a swingman. That's why I knew he will be one of the keys while you were mumbling "let's wait this and that" (many did, if it makes you feel better) and he won't even come cause everything federation does is fake (I won't even comment that...). That's why your mumbling about "how 21yo Jokubaitis will be lost in key games" was also trash cause you couldn't merit his actual level. He provided 13pts, 5as, 15ef in the key game.

                          Nor you could understand what I was preaching about D. Giedraitis. His IQ and defence and decision making until you and everyone else seen it before their nose in Lietkabelis. That's how it works with provincial folks as you, bro If shit doesn't exist in your yard, it doesn't exist

                          Now, if you think that Tubelis is another random LKL player, you are simply lost yet another time. That's your normal condition, bro Unfortunately. Even last year, Tubelis was top 5-7 NCAA player per production, per efficiency if to go deep into the stats. IMO, if current Tubelis would play for say Liekabelis, there's a good chance he would be MVP of LKL. He could easily snatch a role in Zalgiris in EL this season. Easily. F.e. Petrusev was really good in NCAA and he was ready for EL offensively, but the problem is that he's a nightmare defensively and he's soft. Tubelis is ready at both ends of the flour and he's tough, more athletic. He will more or less totally dominate NCAA this season and he will come to the NT likely as the 3rd best big in the NT. OK, that's only likely, cause he may struggle at first to some degree, but there's no reason why he couldn't establish a role for some 10min. I don't see better defensive bigs in the NT than Tubelis. He is more athletic, tougher than E. Zukauskas. He can chase guards and block their lay-ups, he can provide help defense cause he reads the defenses pretty nicely. You'll see as always. Just wait for your provincial cycle of acknowledging things. It's not very fast you know

                          About winning...I didn't say we are going to freakin' win shit instantly with whatever we will add to the NT. Come on. Serbia, Slovenia, Greece are going down with superstars...We can lose even if Jokubaitis ill turn out to be at Saras' level in his prime and Buzelis as NBA superstar. We can see it with Micic and Jokic. Nothing is given. My point is that we need changes nevertheless. As Kleiza said, this shit with building around or playing together with 2 offensive bigs is not working, so why to continue of this? For how many tournaments more? We have failures in 2019, 2021, 2022. Shit's not working. So we need adjustments. You are correct on saying we have to keep on building. Be it slow steps or bigger than it may look, it has to be done. And no we don't have to play both JV and Domas for 26min. Not even Scariola played Willy so long as his biggest name internationally. He played 21mpg and there was no Sabonis around him. Whatever the minutes would be, I think Sabonis has to play more, and these 2 should mainly (or even entirely) share 5 spot. That's my recipe anyway.

                          My rotation for 2023 wold be like that:

                          4: Kuzminskas, Tubelis + someone depending on circumstances
                          5 Sabonis, Valanciunas

                          IMO, these 4 pieces are best for our 4-5 rotation.
                          LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

                          Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
                          Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
                          Buzelis, Lelevicius
                          Murauskas, Sirvydis
                          Tubelis, Krivas

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            my passport data is used because most NT coaches does that. Not just lithuanian coaches or its just my imagination.Thats data and facts.

                            I asked name me from best teams who used students u-22 in main rotation? you name like 3-4players in 6 best teams other main 30+ players in those 6 teams wasnt raw students. Winning teams coaches uses mature dudes to win.

                            Its not my problem if you cant see that.

                            D.Giedraitis did he played in NT at age of 20-22? No he didnt. Maybe just maybe he will make the team at 23 next summer like my formula showed ?

                            I dont get why you are dancing here about him if data formula was right and you were wrong again as always putting him way prematurely in Nt like at 21?

                            How manny points in eurobasket 2022 was scored by your projected kids from 2019/2020 D.Giedraitis,Velicka,Marciulionis,Tubelis.Sedekers kis,Kulboka,Sirvydis ?

                            thats some of them one day gonna make NT sure,but our conversation always was it will happen before 22 or after 23. So far you were wrong alot and historical data way more accurate.


                            Your Kleiza said about Tubelis in recent podcast: " can he shoot? if not he wont be productive in fiba at PF position" .There are reasons why fast big like Garuba with 2m03 dont play PF for Spain or Domas have struggles at PF too.Because they cant shoot !

                            In that podcast they decided maybe he can mobile C for defence ale Garuba,but not PF in 2 diffrent podcasts they had similiar opinion about Tubelis. You are putting one more non shooting big in PF just because you can see he wont get no minutes at C.

                            But writting that im sorry i dont see some ncaa kid or champion league players Kuzminskas/Bendzius type playing more minutes over good nba player Domas at PF. Thats makes no sense and 3 diffrent NT coaches 2019,2021,2022 agreed with that.

                            If NT would have Kleiza/Markannen/Fontechia/J.Hernangomez nba level shooting big type sure i could see what u talking,but with that average crap we have at PF in 2022 compared to Domas level unlikely to see big changes in PF position in 2023-2024.

                            Butautas said same thing according to what we have in PF/C right now 9 of 10 coaches would do same thing what 3 diffrent 2019-2021-2022 coaches choosen to do.From info i have now my prediction would be:


                            Failing in 2022 was result of super unlucky draw but not overall play of NT. When its like that NT dont neeed to do big changes,just make little changes at bench/role players.Needed level was there to beat anybody.
                            Last edited by Shawshank; 09-24-2022, 12:24 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              No. Kazlauskas himself said. I don't need players passports. I correctly remember this saying. Off course, in some other cases he emphasized experience and so on, but my and I think his point is that some players have the package early.

                              I don't care when D.Giedraitis, or Tubelis, or Marciulionis will make NT (if they make NT, but I say they will). My point was that they have IQ and skill to be treated as those who should attract attention early. I think NT coaches overlooked D. Giedraitis and didn't invite him to FIBA window camps, while they could do it 2 years ago generally. His D, IQ, decision making, solid shooting and calm nerves down the stretch were already there back then. But he played in ACB and our coaches didn't know him or just thought he's too young. What I was asking is to have him and test him in the camp. You can cut a player if he disappoints (Kulboka's case), but have him and test him. Have best prospects tested. That's why I think Maksvytis made a mistake not inviting Sirvydis. Just give him a chance to run up and down the court in the camp and see what is his level.

                              I never was claiming that these players should necessary MAKE NT this or that year. I'm asking for the best of them to have a chance to show up in the camp.

                              Besides, I think D. Giedraitis, if was healthy, could make NT this summer. He's better than Zemaitis. I think his performance would had been better than R. Giedraitis too. He was trash in Eurobasket. Not even talking about the fact that Iggy could easily make NT 2021 as 22yo.

                              So you're saying Garuba and Giannis are trash at 4 cause they can't shoot? I disagree. Obviously Tubelis is not as good as even Garuba, but you get the point. They can play D, they can pass, and they can penetrate and score (in Giannis and Tubelis case and not so much in Garuba's). What Kleiza and almost all bb community is missing that Tubelis is a good or very solid defensive player. People still can't get that. Similarly to how majority of LTU fans were not aware of the maturity level of 20yo D. Giedraitis. They simply didn't realize it.

                              Again, yes Tubelis is not ideal piece at 4 cause he lacks shooting, but under current circumstances I believe he would be very nice piece nevertheless. IMO, people underrate the offensive versatility that potentially Domas and Tubelis could provide playing together. Tubelis specially moves without the ball well. Nor Domas, nor Speically JV does that. Both can pass. Both can penetrate and have pretty quick step. Our transition basketball, which we lacked so much against Spain (no easy points), would surely be better. Maybe, I'm wrong, and he will be too raw, will turn the ball over, will look a bit lost mentally, but my projection is that he should be able to play at least solid 10minutes.

                              Yes, Butautas said that? So what? Is he a good coach? Hiring Mazutis and Jomantas at 1 in 2009? He's a horrible coach. That's reality. In 2007-2008 it was Jasikevicius' team. He simply run the team and that's the story. Once Jasikevicius was out, we seen the best of Butautas.His club coaching career was trash too. BTW, Adomaitis played JV for 22min. If he had benched him down the stretch it could be very close to how I imagine JV should be used in contemporary basketball, 14-18mpg.

                              So, you're saying we don't need adjustment? Let's do all the same and continue to try to brake the wall with our heads? That's your plan? Didn't you see that JV can guard zero the fuck of pick and roll and it's not getting any better in upcoming years? You don't think it's a problem? Brown definitely thinks it's not a problem, LOL. Plenty of solid guards will thrive against JV's defense. At least you agreed that he's unplayable down the stretch.

                              All this talk about super unlucky...We simply couldn't do it. We could easily beat some of these powerhouses in the group. But we didn't. The draw has little to do with it. We seen Poland taking down Slovenia...We simply couldn't get our shit together. And the very big reason why - our bigs are as trashy defenders as it gets and without defensive bigs we can barely dream about winning, IMO. Besides, we lack defensive guards too. No question.

                              The draw...You still having the wet dream how JV leads NT to glory...I would suggest to get it over already....
                              LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

                              Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
                              Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
                              Buzelis, Lelevicius
                              Murauskas, Sirvydis
                              Tubelis, Krivas

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Lithuania is down 2 pts 5 seconds to go in second overtime vs bronze medal winning team and Butkevicius had wide open look..

                                Lithuania is down to 2 pts again 5 seconds to go againts eventual champions and Jokubaitis have nice open look to win ...

                                If those 2 open good shots goes in we would have beat gold and bronze medal winners.

                                Only emotional brainless fans can shout we need to fire everybody,nothing was working and destroy entire team that was one open made shot to eliminate team that won gold.

                                Bring same main 9 players back, bring same coaching staff in 2023 .

                                Add needed type role players in last 3 places ( like Ulanovas) and keep on building chemistry between same core of players.

                                I'm all in continuation in such cases.

                                It's was painfull defeats, but to get such death group and after that gold medal winners in first playoffs game devil himself made this draw for our NT .

                                even with all that draw medalist/best teams needed overtime games to beat ltu NT with some luck on their side too that those 2 open shots didn't went in ...
                                Last edited by Shawshank; 09-25-2022, 03:40 PM.

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