Lithuanian Point Guards

[Straight forward]

Marciulionis moves on his feet very well. Agile, nimble strong. He has that Lillard move, when he moves to the side before the shot, a bit of step back as well. His jimmy looks better and better. He'll be the best defender out of three PG studs. He will be the best player in his conference again. Will be fun to see how KJ, Jokubaitis and Augis will deal with the NT roles. All three are good.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C92tupuCEXT/?hl=en

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[Shawshank]

You can dislike Gedvilas, but he said the right thing about LTU basketball state now (NT). "We are struggling against aggressive defense, we can shoot only open, but now you should be able to shoot from 8 meters distance, contested shots, the defense should be aggressive. (...). Basketball should be aggressive and fast. Curry in the finals just made his shots without any set plays. You have to be able to shoot".

That's our problem.

and your fanboys favourites clumsy shooters Marciulionis or D.Giedraitis can do what Gedvilas saying?

Putting around Sabonis shaky shooting guards like Marciulionis,D.Giedraitis will work as well as putting shaky wing shooters ale Butkevicius,Sedekerskis,Ulanovas in 2024.


Worst what coaches can do for Sabonis near shaky shooting wings also put shaky shooting guards

NT sucked in shooting in Puerturcio game. Adding Marciulionis and D.Giedraitis its just fantastic mastermind and ignoring what happen in that puertucio game.


How opponnets double teamed Sabonis and Grigonis because they saw alot of clumsy shooters on the floor and wont punish such risky defence. Yeah lets add 2 more guards that is shaky shooters

Even puerturico coaching staff realised that. How do think good europe teams will figured out that ? or gonna defend our best players Sabonis and Grigonis 1 vs 1?

[Straight forward]

and your fanboys favourites clumsy shooters Marciulionis or D.Giedraitis can do what Gedvilas saying?

Slow down a little bit, dude

Why do you call me fanboy? To me a fan boy who sticks with favorism towards a player no matter what. I may like one players more than other, but I will always say Sabonis is trash defensively, Buzelis struggling with three and so on. If you referring to wrong projections on certain players (which happens to anybody) than it's not being fanboy.

Second, why do you exclude Marciulionis and D. Giedraitis. You think these are most ready to join NT 2025 I assume. Well, those 2 won't solve our problems, I agree. But nevertheless they can add something as a step forward to the NT. FOA, defense. One of our problem (eternal) is lazy perimeter defense. Such on ball lock down defenders as Augis and Dovis should be brilliant role players, each playing say some 15mpg and having those coming from the bench would really improve us. Not a game changer, but still very relevant step forward, IMO.

Putting around Sabonis shaky shooting guards like Marciulionis,D.Giedraitis will work as well as putting shaky wing shooters ale Butkevicius,Sedekerskis,Ulanovas in 2024.

I personally don't look at this Olympic Cycle as the one to "build around Sabonis". Domas should be among the keys, but he should be more of a glue guy, not a go to guy. I want perimeter pieces to be our main focus. In 2025 it should be Jokubaitis, Buzelis, Brazdeikis (Sirvydis, Marciulionis, D. Giedraitis, Rubstavicius), but in 2027 I already expect Jakucionis to make the team and make instant impact. He's the dynamic guard that can be a game changer. He can really SHOOT and PASS. He's different tier guard talent, world class material.

To me this cycle is: Jakucionis, Buzelis + Sabonis

That would be my vision. Those perimeter guys can bring what Gedvilas preached. They can beat aggressive defense and lead the team offensively.

Worst what coaches can do for Sabonis near shaky shooting wings also put shaky shooting guards

That's why our success will depend a lot on how such prospects as Buzelis, Murauskas will pan out in terms of shooting. If they will be shaky shooters it will reduce our upside, but if they will be shooting well, we can be scary good offensively. I believe I'm not exaggerating a bit. Scary good. But, again, it's not about Sabonis. We should be able to play flawless offense even with Tubelis at 5 and to certain degree maybe even faster and more simple basketball at times. Sabonis needs the ball moving around him all the time and that's much more difficult to do on FIBA court, but we should find some kind of balance with it.

How opponnets double teamed Sabonis and Grigonis because they saw alot of clumsy shooters on the floor and wont punish such risky defence. Yeah lets add 2 more guards that is shaky shooters

Even puerturico coaching staff realised that. How do think good europe teams will figured out that ? or gonna defend our best players Sabonis and Grigonis 1 vs 1?

Again, you cherry picked 2 guards that no-one is saying will be game changers Those 2 are grindy quality role players for elite NT as LTU (well, we getting there at least ). What will be a game changer is when we will field (2028) guys like Jakucionis, Indrusaitis, Buzelis, Murauskas at 1-4. All can go ISO, all can shoot and all can pass. Tremendous versatility and talent. That will be a game changer. Having Sabonis in the middle who can feed these pieces constantly and KJ's and Domas pick and roll will be deadly potentially.

The difference is Grigonis always melts and chokes under tough defense. That's why I said we're fucked when I saw how the game plan is fixed. Grigonis could never and will never LEAD the team. He's a role player by all means and Jokubaitis already is way more better fit for LEAD role even now. And I see Jokubaitis as back-up for KJ long term. So our situation will be radically different this Olymic cycle.

That's off course with good development of our key prospects, and upcoming 2-3 years will give us an answer if we get the stars in KJ and Buzelis. If don't then, yes, the problem will remain more or less the same as Gedvilas now describes (but still not on the same level as previously cause even some Jokubaitis, Indrusaitis, Rubstavicius presense will be huge for LTU basketball). Still my ultimate wish is to see Jakucionis and Buzelis becoming legitimate FIBA stars. If that's happening, we will be daking down ANYBODY. On a better night we will be able to take down even USA, IMO, as we always have an edge to provide our 150% effort against them and historically contesting them the best in world.

Forget about Grigonis being the best player It's big travesty. He's just a role player. We will move forward when we will try to build our house with bricks and not with straw. Grigonis is the worst player ever given the leading role of the NT.

[Shawshank]

Sabonis is an all star that need to put around him shooters or himself near shaky shooters his offensive skillset become 12+8 fiba player in 28min

Choosing player looking do they fit with Domas or not its should real factor choosing players.

Im saying you cant sing Gedvilas songs and forget that your beloved guards cant shoot and punish double teams our leaders is getting .


Putting shaky shooting guards near Domas it will look same picture like putting near Giannis Calathes and Walcups

Giannis was leading scorer in Olympics and created open looks again and again after getting literally triple teamed and Greece still finished 1-3 record because their guards and wings is like lithuanians euroleague role players and clumsy shooters.


Without elite perimeter leader and also clumsy shooters is close to impossible to win anything in 2020s basketball. Even if you have top 5 world player in Greece example ... every team still need perimeter star and 2020s world class streaching the floor.


Its not 1990s or 2000s anymore were atleast 2 bad shooters was on the floor at all times

2020s best teams trying more and more to put 5 shooters on the floor or we adapting to that and goodluck fighting for 9-15th places next 10 years too with clumsy shooting lineups.



That Grigonis wont play anymore in 2025-2028 i can see that,but that he was best lithuanian perimeter player in 2021-2024 yes that correct.

Scoring 23 pts game in semifinal vs Italy and vs Puerturico vs double teams finished 8pts+7reb+6ass. 12eff. that how bad game of best our perimeter player looked.

Singing nonsenses how euroleague champion 1 million salary player with 2022 15pts average and 2024 17,5pts average ale can do nothing offensively is just blind hating

[Straight forward]

Im saying you cant sing Gedvilas songs and forget that your beloved guards cant shoot and punish double teams our leaders is getting .

Wow wow...some nasty mind fuck here I simply quoted Gedvilas and agreed with his statement. Further conclusions is made by yourself as usually happens with you, not me

All your rant above is something that we agree on, there's nothing to discuss. We need perimeter studs.

That Grigonis wont play anymore in 2025-2028 i can see that,but that he was best lithuanian perimeter player in 2021-2024 yes that correct.

Scoring 23 pts game in semifinal vs Italy and vs Puerturico vs double teams finished 8pts+7reb+6ass. 12eff. that how bad game of best our perimeter player looked.

Singing nonsenses how euroleague champion 1 million salary player with 2022 15pts average and 2024 17,5pts average ale can do nothing offensively is just blind hating

Grigonis probably was the best guard in 2019-2024 stretch (even though I sincerely believe Maksvytis totally mishandled Jokubaitis in 2024, totally. Look even at his shots against PR, he was shooting flat out, but still didn't get more shots). But retrospectively it's the worst best guard we had. Or say perimeter leader. As I put before, it was Rooney, Karnisovas, Jasikevicius, Macijauskas, Siskauskas, Kleiza, Kalnietis and then...the worst ever lead guard Grigonis. That's also a simple fact.

Grigonis is a victim just as JV. The NT asked something that they couldn't provide. People asked JV to be special player, big time game changer, but he never turned to be even close. As one of keys, something what happened in 2015, he could be terrific, but later it got ugly. The same with Grigonis. He could be terrific role player, but was asked to be the leader and it got ugly. Like he choked in all key games in all tournaments. In 2022 he actually played as I wished till the knock out stage. He wasn't forcing anything, taking pretty quality shots, most of them open looks, and he's good with it. But then he choked in the knock out stage. That's the thing. Both are victims of situation. If JV had some Rooney or even prime Saras next him, we would have couple of medals more and JV would be constantly adding 18/10 being a great piece next the LEADING player. Grigonis would be super efficient 14ppg kinda shooter next the LEADING player. I understand that. But they were pushed to the fire and they burned. Just cold facts. Besides Grigonis choked as a role player in 2016, 2017 also when no-one ever cared about him, but he still couldn't get over his head.

[Straight forward]

Grigonis knock out stage career in NT:

2016 20min 0pts, -2eff
2017 20min 7pts, 7eff
2019 decisive game vs FRA 22min 10pts, 8eff
2022 29min, 8pts, 7eff
2024 26min, 8pts, 12eff

Grigonis knock out stage career stats in the NT:

23,4min, 6,6pts, 6,4eff

Grigonis has been a choker. Cold facts. I would love him as role player still though, but god forbid leader's role.

[Straight forward]

In 2025 Jokubaitis, Buzelis, Brazdeikis should be aggressors with the ball. Grigonis never was the player with the ball, never was the slasher and never WILL be. He's a shooter, that's it.

[Straight forward]

Grigonis knock out stage career in NT:

2016 20min 0pts, -2eff
2017 20min 7pts, 7eff
2019 decisive game vs FRA 22min 10pts, 8eff
2022 29min, 8pts, 7eff
2024 26min, 8pts, 12eff

Grigonis knock out stage career stats in the NT:

23,4min, 6,6pts, 6,4eff

Grigonis has been a choker. Cold facts. I would love him as role player still though, but god forbid leader's role.

Oh, and I forgot 2021 his another crappy campaign against Slovenia, when he unleashed his usual 3/11 shots. 10pts, 10eff in 34min. Not the numbers you want from the leader, not even close.

[Shawshank]

Sabonis fit with Marciulionis is just horrible. Literally like Greece GiannIs+Calathes tandem and only ltu players clearly levels is worse.

By end of the tournament Spanoulis started to put some no name for 20min at Sg just because he could make wide open 3 pointer. It was so bad offensively with opponents triple teaming Giannis and Greece euroleague defensive minded guards cant make wide open training shots.

Thats what will see with your fantasy 2020s Sabonis+Marciulionis+D.Giedraitis lineup if you will add Sedekerskis to them then opoonnets all 5 can play 1970s old school zone defence when there were no 3 point line


Not maybe in 2019-2024 Grigonis was best lithuanian perimeter player. By any measure salary earned,scored pts or leading scorer in NT. or to whom opponnets coaches was putting their best defenders on.


Jokubaitis had by far worst season, last 4 months of the season was playing 5 minutes per game. or DNP.

Grigonis played 20min for euroleague champions,by far best season since zalgiris 2018 year.

Looking at their club season its not supising that Grigonis averaged 17,5pts per game and Jokubaitis 8,8pts per game in 2024 olympic summer.


Rokas was out of any playing shape. 2 weeks to prepare is not enough to get to playing shape after barely playing last 4 months.



One Grigonis can do same what Jasikevicius,Siskauskas,Macijauskas could do together in clearly weaker fiba competion in 2000s


Not Grigonis didnt match those legends Grigonis+Jokiubaitis+Brazdeikis didnt match what 2000s guards did.



All 4 of them Valanciunas,Sabonis,Grigonis,Jokubaitis failed to match what winning medal winning team leaders did and LTU lost all important games in 2019-2024.


You can say look Jokubaitis played good game 16pts vs Puerturico and how much scored puerturico leaders ? 23pts and 21pts and played in same Jokubaitis positions.

Even in his best summer game Jokubaitis still lost his own PG battle

[Straight forward]

FOA, it's unclear whenever both of these guards will have meaningful roles long term in the NT. The way the talent panning out, both may be left aside essentially. But you underrate their offensive abilities. Marciulionis offense is shaping nicely, he will be a force at both ends. Yeah, maybe certain limitations, but he won't be Wallcup. He'll have more offense and much more reliable jump shot. Watch and realize that. You can trust my BB eye as you know. D. Giedraitis is undersized 2 and lacks athleticism, but he shot 42.6% and with time his crafty driving game, hesitation and midrange will emerge. He's the guy who dropped 40pts or so at lower Spanish Leagues and was pretty dynamic at U19 with his scoring flashes. Again, it remains unclear if Marciulionis can prevail against Jokubaitis for back-up PG position (more like no probably, but to me it's nearly 100% open question, cause Marciulionis is way better defender), and Giedraitis will have to compete with Brazdeikis, Sirvydis, Rubstavicius, Indrusaitis, Lelavicius for SG position, so what's the odds? The only good news for him that he's the best defender of all the bunch.

Grigonis chocked in the knock out stage, that's the key. That's the tragedy of LTU basketball. But again we were in shitty situation so bad when we speak that Grigonis is our best player.

[Straight forward]

You can say look Jokubaitis played good game 16pts vs Puerturico and how much scored puerturico leaders ? 23pts and 21pts and played in same Jokubaitis positions.

Even in his best summer game Jokubaitis still lost his own PG battle

It's hard to drop tons of buckets with 7 shots you know Dude was 5/7 from the field and yet Maksvytis still didn't give him any fucking shots Ask your scrubby fatass why. Alvarado unleashed 14 shots and Waters 17. You can do the math, I believe.

While our "star" unleashed 11 and made 3...

[Shawshank]

Nobody who watched final game would say oh yeah Jokubaitis was best guard on the floor. Its clearly was Alvarado two way game


We all knew before tournament there will be 2 playoofs games: italy and Puerturico

In semiifnal vs Italy Jokubaitis peformance: 22min 5pts 1/8 shooting 3 asist 4 reb 7eff


So when you put blame on Grigonis 12 eff game vs double teams and ignore his very good first 3games

so please put blame on Jokubaitis for very bad first 3 games and semifinal very meh game


I get that you are cluesless very biased fan,but trying to picture

That Grigonis with 17,5pts didnt deliver but Jokubaitis with way worse shooting % and 8,8 pts average delvered in Olympic summer its special expert opinion even for your standarts

[Straight forward]

We all knew before tournament there were be 2 playoofs games: italy and Puerturico

In semiifnal vs Italy Jokubaitis peformance: 22min 5pts 1/8 shooting 3 asist 4 reb 7eff


So when you put blame on Grigonis 12 eff game so please put blame on Jokubaitis very bad first 3 games and semifinal just very bad

But that's the thing. Grigonsi delivers when there's less pressure. That game was a sweep. Lithuania comfortably controlled it. I didn't say Grigonis was bad overall, but he doesn't deliver when it matters the most. That's the tragedy of his NT career.

Jokubaitis off course wasn't on his best, but at least so far he provides in the crucial games. The key was to take down Puerto Rico who beat Italy previously. We all knew already PR is the team to beat.

Rokas

2022 vs Spain 13pts, 15eff
2023 vs Srb 13pts, 15eff
2024 vs PR 16pts, 20eff

He's delivering in the knock out stage. 14ppg, 16,6eff.

Compare that with Grigonis knock out stage...his 7pts, 7eff kinda performances...And Jokubaitis just scratching the surface yet. Lithuania will never ever come down lower as it was under Grigonis as the beast leading perimeter player. It's impossible. We will never ever have trashier knock out stage leader than him. I won't quote Kalnietis numbers in the knock out stage. In 2013 he was averaging 18ppg vs Italy, Croatia, France.

It's a nightmare stretch for Lithuania, but the good news we won't ever again be that low. Already next summer we will be much better than that with Jokubaitis, Buzelis (if comes) and Iggy taking matters into their hands. And in 2027 it will be whole another ball game with Jakucionis, Buzelis and prime Jokubaitis (and others).

I have no idea how we end up with random EL role player being our best perimeter player, but that's just sad. It's not gonna repeat ever, IMO. I mean Kalnietis with NT jerseys was completely on different tier. Sepcially when it comes to mentality for the key games. Whole another level. Completely different leadership. Grigonis is galaxies away.

[Straight forward]

What it should be said, Italians had no defense. I said before this game - there's no way we loose. Impossible. Italy had zero pressure defensively, they were small and soft. Lithuania just had to crash them. In such games Grigonis can score. But when he has legit defense in front of him, he chokes. That's always the case. Be it Spain, 2021 Slovenia, or PR, if there;s agile, tough, pesky defense against him...game over, he's not gonna deliver.

[Straight forward]

I get that you are cluesless very biased fan,but trying to picture

That Grigonis with 17,5pts didnt deliver but Jokubaitis with way worse shooting % and 8,8 pts average delvered in Olympic summer its special expert opinion even for your standarts

No, you don't get it that it's actually you who is a fanboy when you try to defend JV and Grigonis (or any other of your favs) by any cost. And you usually gatekeeping when I simply speak objectively.

It's not about Grigonis and Jokubaitis comparison. It's about the fact Grigonis doesn't deliver when it matters. Knock out stage, playoffs is where medals are being snatched. Maybe you care about averages in the group stage, good for you then, you can celebrate JV's group numbers in 2022, and Grigonis averages in qualification, but I care about games which matters. That's why to me Macas is the goat when he was carrying NT with 27,3ppg in the PO of 2024. Siska and Saras are great and they carried NT in many tournaments, but they choked in 2004, when both were not in good shape in the playoffs. Group doesn't matter much if you want to win big things. NT struggled in the group both 2013 and 2015, but won big things when it clicked in the PO. Kleiza wasn't the best player yet of NT when he was leading in scoring after group stage in 2008. Others carried NT in playoffs. Those players shape medals. Spain with Pau never cared about the group stage, were always resting and waiting for playoffs and then turned on to next level. That's how they remain extremely successful and likely there won't be such dominant NT again (aside USA).

So go celebrate your Grigonis averages. In knock out stage he sucked. Live with that. I want knock out stage wins. If you want to discuss group stage scoring averages, I have no time for that shit, bro.