Kaunas Zalgiris Thread

[Straight forward]

I always felt a lack of Zalgiris thread and since so many things going on, I think it will be handy to have it here.

FOA, Saras is close to sign with Fener, and I'm wondering how soon the club will collapse into mediocrity after Saras is left. IMO, it's super naive to think Saras set the tone and it will be good from now on even when he's left. IMO, it will be better than before Saras, but Zalgiris will collapse and soon. Unless some another huge coach as some Xavi Pascual will be hired, Zalgiris will collapse dramatically.

Blazevic seems to be a done deal. It's really strange move. That means Saras really sees Blazevic's IQ, fundamentals and good temper. To buy him out, 120k is a big money even for Zalgiris. That means Jasikevicius sees him balling in EL and soon if not instantly. Anyway, I wanted him in Rytas with huge role, now he will have more difficult path of developing, even if maybe even the better one in a long run.

[auris1]

I always felt a lack of Zalgiris thread and since so many things going on, I think it will be handy to have it here.

FOA, Saras is close to sign with Fener, and I'm wondering how soon the club will collapse into mediocrity after Saras is left. IMO, it's super naive to think Saras set the tone and it will be good from now on even when he's left. IMO, it will be better than before Saras, but Zalgiris will collapse and soon. Unless some another huge coach as some Xavi Pascual will be hired, Zalgiris will collapse dramatically.

Blazevic seems to be a done deal. It's really strange move. That means Saras really sees Blazevic's IQ, fundamentals and good temper. To buy him out, 120k is a big money even for Zalgiris. That means Jasikevicius sees him balling in EL and soon if not instantly. Anyway, I wanted him in Rytas with huge role, now he will have more difficult path of developing, even if maybe even the better one in a long run.

What type of collapse are we talking about? If team is careful regarding finances and manages right balance between keeping on "making boys men "and getting some victories ,than
be it so.
Result wise collapse? Zalgiris will be go from scraping for top 8 to not making it at all. This is reality that is harsh but you know, we have to accept it as a fact. Falling back to mediocrity is inevitable if Jasikevicius was to leave, because he was a sole reason who made as exceptional .
But i would rather him to leave on the high than to become a sort of overstayer for the sake of Zalgiris and himself personally.
Btw, since Barcelona lost , he might be for chance to take over Pesic ,right?

[Svajunas]

I have a feeling he will stay. He stated many times that this is the best place for him. Why would he leave for Fener now? Does money really matter to him now. Another thing to consider is that his kids are at 10+ years old now , so moving and leaving all their friends, schools etc will not be greeted with happiness.
I hope he stays here till his kids finish school.

[Straight forward]

So interesting how things will develop now. The new head coach will be Lithuanian it seems. I wonder now if such player as Lekavicius or even Grigonis have much of motivation to stay in Kaunas. Saras was a springboard for most young players, but now? And even Jokubaitis? He was actually kept under shorter leash, everyone knew it, he could go for some 28min in the mid section LKL club, but stayed in Zalgiris because of Saras. Now the "free market" can really open up and mess up things. If not this season then next one. From Lithuanian coaches left, I don't see anyone who would be special or interesting, I think after Saras, Kairys is most interesting young Lithuanian coach and Rytas already grabbed him. To me, it doesn't make sense not to go for foreigner, but we'll see. Also no idea how players like Vasturia, Dimsa will do now. Saras would surely find them proper niche and during the season would perfect their role, but under average coach...what exactly those average players will achieve in EL? My projection is that it's gonna be sudden and rough fall...Not only results wise, but the game it self in the first place. Like big time. I just hope somehow most key guys will stay and will get strong roles. Because for Lekavicius and Ulanovas to go to the stronger club and to play 10min per game doesn't really make sense and it won't help NT either. I think NT may be at risk now also. If all Lekavicius, Grigonis, Ulanovas would have messy seasons else where or would be demoralised with extremely crappy season with Zalgiris, they would come as worse players to the NT also. Saras in Zalgiris was not only Zalgiris' god, but he was an axle of all Lithuanian basketball: he prepared Grigonis, Lekavicius, Ulanovas for the highest level, for key roles of NT as well, also Jokubaitis has been growing massively under him. Now some mediocre dude will come and he gonna develop Jokubaitis? I don't know...

I'm happy for Jasikevicius, but huuugeee, big time blow for Zalgiris and what's most pity, I think Lithuanian basketball over all. Mediocrity will come and will lay it's mediocre knowledge and abilities and the excuse will be "we need more time", "players too young" and and this and that and all that crap and bullshit that we never hear from Jasikevicius and he was just delivering every single year.

[Greed]

I was hoping for foreign coach too. I thought we learned many years ago, that hiring coach just because he is lithuanian, has 'green blood' or is a buddy of GM is a disaster waiting to happen.
Saras elevated Zalgiris into forgotten heights, so while we still have momentum we should get strong coach.

Some journos and commentators in LTU saying that Zalgiris as organisation will continue to grow and nothing will crumble, despite Saras' departure.
Welp... If there will be no victories, there won't be fans / money. In my eyes Motiejunas is stupid enough to risk everything and start saving money on coaches.

[Shawshank]

Zalgiris was lucky to have Saras for 7 years (1player,2asistant,4 head coach).That he gonna leave one day it was obviuos .

Zalgiris 2017-2020 those last 3 seasons was comparable to only Kazlauskas best 3 years in Zalgiris 1996-1999.Remarkable years no doubt for Zalgiris and most likely fans gonna feel this lose badly in upcomming years,but nobody could do nothing about that.Saras is just to big and great in basketball to fight with zalgiriukas for only 7-10th places every year in euroleague.Came time for him to go higher level team and fight not just too make top 8 playoofs,but win the title.

Jaska grow up Lukas for NT,put very nice basics in Jokubaitis as PG .Hopefully thought our NT trio Ulanovas,Grigonis,Lekavicius how to win on highest level.

I expect big contributions from that trio in upcomming 4years.

Best thing that can happen in Zalgiris next season ofr NT: Grigonis,Ulanovas plays 25+min , Lukas 20min+ and Jokubaitis 10min+ in euroleague.

I rank Kemzura,Maskvytis higher than Maskoliunas and Adomaitis.If Zalgiris hires somebody from first 2 i feel they will be atleast solid in euroleague,with Maskoliunas/Adomaitis i have no idea ,but somehow i trust those two way less than Kemzura/Maskvytis.

In Klaipeda recently we had both Maskvytis and Adomaitis,nobody in Klaipeda thinks that Adomaitis is better coach over Maskvytis nobody and Dainius won silver medal with Neptunas one season .Adomaitis was just good tactical coach,but team lost neptunas fighting indentity with him and loockeroom wasnt as close.Same in NT Adomaitis prepared tactically team really well,but was no that extra fighting juice we saw in Jasikevicius Zalgiris,in Maskvytis Neptunas or Kemzura NT 2010 team.To overcome more tallented teams you need more than just good tactical preparation.

Maskvytis was more then just a coach.In one year after Kazys left Neptunas totaly lost teams indentity,lost lockerooms togetherness and no stability in a team right now that what can happen when you lose your organisations leader .Just hope similiar things wont happen with Zalgiris after Sharas left in next few years.

[Straight forward]

Personally, I was a little bit shocked with P. Motiejunas press conference. Saras was talking about how Zalgiris organisation will remain strong even if he leaves and so on and so on, but to me this press conference was like instant sign that the organisation is collapsing instantly, falling down to Lithuanian provincial mediocrity and shallow thinking instantly. Particularly: 1. The head coach will be Lithuanian. 2. The vision will change, we will be signing older players. Damn, really? 1. Means you getting complete mediocrity, like complete. Let's face it, all Maskoliunas, Adomaitis, Kemzura, Maksvytis (you put them any order) are nothing, but mediocrities who wouldn't get EL club other than "Lithuanian wanted" Zalgiris. 2. Likely means that washouts like Maciulis may be heading back home, something what Saras never allowed and never lowered the bar (even when Maciulis was kneeing and begging for it in every damn interview) with sentimental decisions or whatever. He never went with questionable choices. Zalgiris could fill some holes with veterans, but Saras never signed someone like Maciulis in the off season and now it's very likely.

Someone is still naive enough that with those 4 Zalgiris could still be OK. Not it won't, it's impossible. Maskoliunas NT campaign in the windows also clearly showed that he's galaxies away from Saras. The way he talks about basketball, the way he gives interviews, the way he prepares NT mentally before the game, the way he selects players ("Matkevicius made the list and I just gave the permission"), and everything...

The only fall which wouldn't remind instant apocalipse is to hire really solid/good foreign coach and not to save money here. It would still be a fall, even if Zalgiris would sign Obradovic (that would be the easiest, almost non existant fall), but it's the only way to more or less retain current level. Everything else is a disaster compared to the level Zalgiris has been last 4 years. My recipe: pay the damn coach, really good one if one is available (well, Obradovic is free...), or even to go baldly like hiring (buying out) someone like Alex Mumbru, a young coach who surprised ACB this season, played mobile, interesting contemporary basketball with unique and original defensive system decisions. Zalgiris should be looking for new Saras. That is young, talented, charismatic, open to contemporary basketball details, hungry.

[Shawshank]

Young Kazlauskas,young Saras such coaches in ltu shows up once per 20 years.Find next Jasikevicius is close to zero chances.

Zalgiris will return to their level 13-16th places in euroleague as was after Kazlauskas and before Saras was for 20 years (except 2 seasons).

i dont see Zalgiris having any chance fighting for top 8 in this stronger and stronger euroleague with every year.Even with Sharas it was very hard last 2 seasons to make top 8 . Zalgiris needed miracles like 6 wins to finish to just grab 8th spot.Its unreal to repeat that again any time soon with 10millions fighting against 30-40millions clubs.

So atleast i want to see our nT players in zalgiris playing alot against elite europe players.

Cinderella stories ended for Zalgiris in nearest future result wise.Kaunas team will return to his place like their budget is 13-16th in euroleague.

Until new young star coach will show up in Lithuanias horizonts around 10-15 years from now .


Obradovic ? why not Greg Popovich or Steve Kerr? if dream lets do it big. Obradovic will ask 2mln contract+ atleast 20millions contracts for star players he would coach.Very unlikely that any proven euroleague coach would coach team with 10mln budget.

Young ,unproven coach zalgiris should go for if go againts what Motiejunas said with lithuanian coach as main target.

[Straight forward]

Off course, I was more joking about ZOC, but Zalgiris has been paying Saras nearly a million. And it was soooo much worth it. Now they will sign some Lith for 150 - 200k and will pretend that they actually have a chance with this scenario, that would be so typical old school Zalgiris.

Anyway, the good thing is that Jasikevicius exists, because sometimes I used to get that feeling that we have zero PROs in Lithuania who would be really into BB and would understand it. Saras came and changed Lith basketball culture with a blink of an eye. Everyone suddenly appeared to be funny in comparison with him.

I don't really think Kazlauskas stands in Saras class. This is rather lame comparison. Kazlauskas was a solid coach in European perspective, but not elite. Saras is the guy who will never get anywhere lower than EL and I even think he will never step down from elite EL clubs from now on, unless he will do it by his own will. The way Saras handled Zalgiris...I never seen anything like that anywhere. Maybe best years of ZOC is very close to that, but Saras goes even deeper into adjustments, tiny spots and mismatches utilization, extreme spectrum of BB intangibles usage.

I bet he will have at least 1 EL title in three years with Barsa. If that would be NBA format, I would bet for three titles.

[auris1]

I see nothing wrong if we, Zalgiris fans ,will lower our expectations to the point where victory will be treated as a bonus.
Also , i understand desire to have Lithuanian coach at the helm as a club's policy. Thankfully , we have one or two who would be capable to carry on that duty.
I am not saying they will be successful ,but much better than a foreign one for the continuation . Let's not forget that Saras was allowed to grow at this club just for the same reason . This policy was implemented a while back and before Saras. IMO. Grow local young players for main team, sign unknown foreigners for sale .
Develop coaching staff from beginning.
For any foreign coach , they would have hard time at accepting these conditions . Some would have none of it.So why bother to start with?

Anyways .For me , Kemzura is the one who at the moment is the best option for us. He ,at 50 , is at the peak . More importantly , aside from his success as a coach , he had some failures. Whether it was his fault or just some bad circumstances , or both, it don't matter. All this at the highest level and it will become handy.I know he lacks recent prominence , but he got all credentials for me to be a right man for the moment. 1+1 , or even 2 year contract , but no more.

[auris1]

Off course, I was more joking about ZOC, but Zalgiris has been paying Saras nearly a million. And it was soooo much worth it. Now they will sign some Lith for 150 - 200k and will pretend that they actually have a chance with this scenario, that would be so typical old school Zalgiris.

Anyway, the good thing is that Jasikevicius exists, because sometimes I used to get that feeling that we have zero PROs in Lithuania who would be really into BB and would understand it. Saras came and changed Lith basketball culture with a blink of an eye. Everyone suddenly appeared to be funny in comparison with him.

I don't really think Kazlauskas stands in Saras class. This is rather lame comparison. Kazlauskas was a solid coach in European perspective, but not elite. Saras is the guy who will never get anywhere lower than EL and I even think he will never step down from elite EL clubs from now on, unless he will do it by his own will. The way Saras handled Zalgiris...I never seen anything like that anywhere. Maybe best years of ZOC is very close to that, but Saras goes even deeper into adjustments, tiny spots and mismatches utilization, extreme spectrum of BB intangibles usage.

I bet he will have at least 1 EL title in three years with Barsa. If that would be NBA format, I would bet for three titles.

Jesus Christ man, did you just commit a sacrilege? Why? What exactly triggered you to compare Kazlauskas to Jaska this way? This was really uncalled for. Not cool at all.
Imagine we have a pantheon of our basketball gods for coaches.For some reason you are trying to displace someone instead of just placing that person alongside.
Actually ,right at the bottom .
Also, you are telling that the guy who got third is better than a guy who got the title in euroleauge? And you predict only one title in 3 years for the richest team in europe? Let alone national team ?

[CoachZ]

I think that Saras leaving is a big deal for Zalgiris, but I don't necessarily think it is the end of the world. Yes, he was able to get to F4, another Top 8 participation but he didn't really come into a blank slate and have to do everything from scratch. You already had a club management and strategy in place, a large percentage of the roster was already there, he didn't have to go mercenary hunting etc. I think he did a fantastic job, and a very rare feat. for a young coach to do it at such a high level. When you make changes from coaches that made a huge impact, the ones that come after try to do one of the things:

- Erase everything connected to the previous coach, and start something completely new.
- Try to copy and emulate what the previous coach did.

I think both are the wrong way to go. Regardless of the coach, a solid stable club with ambition should always have a foundation that is there. Coach is very important, but he is not a superman. What I think you should try to retain from Saras is the scouting/video/match preparation approach and staff if possible. This would be of huge value to the next coach. Also, the next coach has to be open and love to utilize that as tools to coach. The replacement might not be as good as Saras in player management or in game adjustments, but at least he should be as well prepared for the games, have solid gameplan and a number of options for different situations. This would minimize the oscilations in the performance of the team.

In my opinion, when I think of Zalgiris and what you guys should stand for is:

- The best Lithuanians not playing in the NBA should play for Zalgiris. Unless there is a guy not in NBA and getting a 1.5 mil contract, he should be in Zalgiris. Those guys have to be followed, recruited and signed on multi-year contracts.
- Upcoming Lithuanian prospects should have a roster spot or two every year and get minutes in LKL and at least something in EL.
- Transfer targets should be a mix of Eurocup/BCL high performers, who are about to explode and reach prime. Give them an EL chance, cash in on them if possible and let them go for that fat contract.
- Development transfers should be G league guys and younger players with upside (Landale, etc.). Not to be given main roles, but solid minutes as role players and backups, with a chance to next season step in and have a smooth transition.
- Have 1 or 2 players that are experienced in EL and stable performers there (they could be one of the Lith guys I spoke in the first point, or the main transfer target for that season).
- Play a hard-nosed style of basketball that puts emphasis on guard-wing centric offense that delivers and where there is much more talent to sign and replenish when they leave. Going for a big-centric offense is quite risky and difficult to replicate. Most of quality and talented bigs are quick goners and much more difficult to replace.
- If you have guys who are talented but stuck in transition between junior basketball and high level senior basketball like EL, then rather then keep them on the bench and roster, send them on loans to lesser clubs that will guarantee the role. Let them jam in the EC or BCL plus domestic championships wherever. Some guys might pop at 23 or so, then that would be a cheap alternative that will perform well on a pure per-dollar basis.

I think that in general, teams like Zalgiris, my Zvezda, will always have a huge mountain in front of them to be able to win something in this EL format etc. The budget constraints and attracting free agents is quite tough. Still, I think that compared to 5 years ago, budget wise situation is much better now. Zalgiris is a 10-mil range, Zvezda is around 7-8 mil range and that is already allowing more flexibility in roster creation. There is more hope that we could put it together one year and make a run at it. Yes, the format is more difficult for sure, but we do compensate a lot with homecourt advantage and team spirit compared to some merc teams. In order to keep going for it, we have to be stable and systemic, otherwise we will just have huge crashes which suck. Loosing a top coach is hard, but it should not be the end of competitive basketball.
-

[Shawshank]

Off course, I was more joking about ZOC, but Zalgiris has been paying Saras nearly a million. And it was soooo much worth it. Now they will sign some Lith for 150 - 200k and will pretend that they actually have a chance with this scenario, that would be so typical old school Zalgiris.

Anyway, the good thing is that Jasikevicius exists, because sometimes I used to get that feeling that we have zero PROs in Lithuania who would be really into BB and would understand it. Saras came and changed Lith basketball culture with a blink of an eye. Everyone suddenly appeared to be funny in comparison with him.

I don't really think Kazlauskas stands in Saras class. This is rather lame comparison. Kazlauskas was a solid coach in European perspective, but not elite. Saras is the guy who will never get anywhere lower than EL and I even think he will never step down from elite EL clubs from now on, unless he will do it by his own will. The way Saras handled Zalgiris...I never seen anything like that anywhere. Maybe best years of ZOC is very close to that, but Saras goes even deeper into adjustments, tiny spots and mismatches utilization, extreme spectrum of BB intangibles usage.

I bet he will have at least 1 EL title in three years with Barsa. If that would be NBA format, I would bet for three titles.

Sharas is lithuanian product and was tottally new coach that agree to coach upcomming uleb material players until himself he was learning how to coach it was win win situation for both him and club.Same story was with Kazlauskas in 90s in zalgiris

You can offer coach even 2million contract ,but if you dont offer seriuos players to compete in euroleague the best you would it get is plaza,repesa some old jugos coach from coaches that had seriuos euroleague cv.It doesnt work like that just money for coach contract when we talking about seriuos,proven coaches.

Kazlauskas won uleb cup,won euroleague,was last coach win olympic medal with ltu NT,won 2 silver medal in eurobasket,won last medal for greece NT. One missed free throws by siskaukas twice was from becoming first coach beating nba players and win second euroleague with cska.Was choosen and paid millions to coach one milijard people country and lead them to top 8 .

literally the players Kazlauskas coached 1997-2000 in zalgiris and rytas 2001-2004 won gold for sireika in 2003.

To this day Lithuania NT,Greece NT,China NT last best result was with Kazlauskas coaching them.In last 2 cases its already 10+ years have passed...I know i know you will say all those Kazlauskas teams were lucky right?

No Kazlauskas achievements dont lie.He was elite europe coach.Sharas still needs alot to win to overcome that.Not other way around.But when your memory is short you are not able to judge objectively.

Atleast its obvious where Sharas got those ideas and basketball understanding he had best coaches,teachers in entire Europe basketball obradovic,blatt,pesic,kazlauskas,pasqual in his playing career.From where Kazlauskas got all that basketball mind it's unclear to me.

Do not see Kazlauskas achievements its just ignorance or youngster type mindset that thinks that basketball started in 2010s

[Straight forward]

Auris, I assume you got angry or emotional, or maybe even got couple of beers (why not), but I bet you may have different attitude today or month. It sounded like typical Lithuanian sacred cow protection. You surely seen Kazkauslas coaching. You surely seen Jasikevicius coaching. Now tell me that you still think Kazlauskas was ever coaching any team better, than Jasikevicius coached Zalgiris last 4 years?


CoachZ, it's hard to disagree with any spots you wrote. Other than that this analysing, preparing, scouting moment will be so much less effective and spot on, whatever the effort. It's not about the hours and effort, it's about who utilizes those hours. If not Saras we would be sinking in the marsh of very artificial understanding about basketball and would continue to pretend that's it's an OK or even good understanding. Our coaching and scouting is weak link of Lithuanian basketball. Also, I think even bigger part is, Saras was able to drag the demon out any player and to change him radically. You can't simulate that. But, yeah, the effort should be there. And I think Zalgiris has been doing the most things that you explicitly named, and I agree with those.

Shaw, your point is shallow to me. For example, Jasikevicius is 4 time EL champ, ect and ect, while 21yo Doncic has only one title. Would you now treat Jasikevicius as the better, or equal, or more or less similar than Doncic as a player? No, it's not even close Doncic is absolute superstar, prodigy and ect. The same story with Kazlauskas having more titles. The titles alone is never a final criterion. Also elite coaches do not transit from EL to Eurocup, to China, here and there...Kazkauslas was never anything more than solid or boderline elite European coach.
And, no, Saras do not only learn from his ex coaches, he learns from everywhere, like watching everything, studying everything. You guys are always too sentimental and too hero thirsty. If Saras will start sucking at coaching I will be the first one to notice and to say this, but he has been great thus far, and it's rather easy to see that he controls the team in a good way and influences results to much broader extent than such coach as Kazlauskas could ever do it (and he was a solid/good coach) and I think even a bit more than ZOC has been influencing (and he's elite coach).

Again, titles are not the only criteria. In Saras case I think it's only a matter of time and it's not fair to wave your guns when the separation between the comparisons is 21 years. How many people here believe that at the end of Saras' career he won't be much more bigger coach than Kazlauskas title wise? We could go to absolute nonsenses if we will value people by this only criteria. There's tons of cash are thrown in the NBA for scouting and projecting. For ability to project things, evaluate circumstances, all the data. You can't go straight lame: "hey, look, he got more titles". There are reasons why NBA teams want "unproven" Jasikevicius for the head coach position in the NBA.

[Shawshank]

fantastic 3 -4 years of Doncic do not make him better player overall than 15+fantastic years of Nowitzky or P.Gasol in all time europe players rankings.Doncic to overtake those 2 legends will take atleast 8 more of such fantastic years and then we have a conversation.Now there is no conversation at all.

Good 3-4 years of Jasikevicius do not make him better than 15+ years run by a coach that won olympic medals,european medals,eurolegue and so on.After 10 years we can discuss, now its not even a seriuos conversation.But Saras started very strong and one day can have a case.

answer to your question did Kazlauskas coached any team better than Jasikevicius.Why dont you ask did Gomelskis with 80s info coached better than coaches that has 2020s info does today? Einstein knew way less in 50s about his own made theory than todays any psysics students know.You cant compare like that diffrent eras and make judgements.

Who had better start to his coaching career Kazlauskas in 1996-2000 or Jasikevicius 2016-2020 ? Judging by titles,achievements its not even close.But how they were/is ahead of their time yes that is a discusion.

Titles and achievements and gap between your generation other people that knew same things as you did ,that what separates great ones from good ones.

Everybody now knows more and plays basketball better tactically than 20 years ago .


I also looking how N.Nurse is coaching in nba and i never seen P.Jackson coaching his teams like that ever.Nurse is way better with tactics,so by STF logic he already better coach than Phil.He dont need win more or achieve anything he already better )