Kaunas Zalgiris Thread

[Dreamcatcher]

Yesterday’s loss by Zalgiris was tough to watch. I’m not a Zalgiris fan, but I have some concerns about how the Italian coach manages certain players. Why is Brazdeikis the 13th player and left out of the game entirely? It should have been Lekavicius or even Manek. Yet Trinch trusts Manek and puts him in the starting five again, while Brazdeikis doesn’t play at all.

Then there’s Giedraitis, who played the most minutes. He seems to be the coach’s favorite player in Zalgiris, but does it really make sense for him to get the most minutes? Dovis had a strong start to the season, but he overachieved back then. Now, his offensive contributions are closer to his real level. In the last five games, he’s averaged about 5 points with low percentages, leading to negative PIR.

Trinch seems to be a solid coach, but I often notice his obvious mistakes in Zalgiris’ losses.

[Toruko]

When Tukey club wins euroleague and turkish players combined scores like 2-4pts in final and semifinal,for me that not really turkish basketball won,but turkish money won.

What I wanted to convey was something different. Time can change everything. Italy was a very serious basketball country with tradition in the beginning of the century and then they couldnt qualify to big tournaments. If you do the right things success will come, if not youll fail.

But youre right. The success was based on foreigners and we don't have your basketball tradition but we have a very big country. We just have to make basketball more popular and the success will follow. Just based on basketball There are 5-6 serious EL player for at least Playoff teams even though some need more time.

If NT camps you can buy only 1 foreigner,not entire 9 men rotation.

One is more than enough.

My opinion problem is in players heads and character, not lack of basketball tallent or just being unlucky.

Your opinion is understandable because we show such a behavior between 2001 - 2022 too many times but there are some reasons behind. I can understand your point but I think the problem is somewhere else. Its pretty similar to the Lithuanian team actually. We dont have the guys in the back court to make the right decisions in the crunch time. I couldnt see any problem with the effort but a lack of quality the last 6-7 tournaments, actually since Eurobasket 2013 in Slovenia. But next year we will have a very promising team if everyone is ready at least. Youll see it in the power rankings before the tournament.

But enough off topic. Sorry for being disruptive.

[Shawshank]

When Tukey club wins euroleague and turkish players combined scores like 2-4pts in final and semifinal,for me that not really turkish basketball won,but turkish money won.

If NT camps you can buy only 1 foreigner,not entire 9 men rotation.

Yes history cant explain everything ,but when its repeating with multiple generations. Thats not just some accident that is repeating for multiple decades.


My opinion problem is in players heads and character, not lack of basketball tallent or just being unlucky.

Who is that new Turkish leader who will erase loosing mentality? Doncic erased loosing mentality from Slovenians.He just have crappy uleb tools to work to reach more.

[Toruko]

When same pattern repeating for 20-30 years you need special generation or super tallent to change that. Im talking about fiba tournaments outside Turkey teritory.


NTs needs other important ingredients to win multiple playoofs types games in same tournament and Turkey never show me they have them. Just basketball tallent wont do it. Unless its super overhelming compared to others.


Turkey maybe can win 1 playoofs game and in next games i expect from them total no fight and surrender by 20pts by 3 querter vs elite NTs.

Atleast i have such memories from Turkey NT in playoofs. Turkey for me looks like team who is emotional frontrunners,but if things goes badly dont expect they fight back and find a way to comeback,they just surrender in those moments and lose badly.


If that would happend in one generation ok.But when it happens for last 30 years.Something wrong with mentality that only insiders can understand details of the problem.

Yeah this is a fair obligation for an outsider. The team has to prove that it can win outside of Turkey. No problem with that but I have some problems with the projection of the future just by taking the past into consider. Judging by that Turkish teams would never win the Euroleague for example or who would have thought that Germany would develop a top BB NT?

But ok, lets wait and see.

[Shawshank]

When same pattern repeating for 20-30 years you need special generation or super tallent to change that. Im talking about fiba tournaments outside Turkey teritory.


NTs needs other important ingredients to win multiple playoofs types games in same tournament and Turkey never show me they have them. Just basketball tallent wont do it. Unless its super overhelming compared to others.


Turkey maybe can win 1 playoofs game and in next games i expect from them total no fight and surrender by 20pts by 3 querter vs elite NTs.

Atleast i have such memories from Turkey NT in playoofs. Turkey for me looks like team who is emotional frontrunners,but if things goes badly dont expect they fight back and find a way to comeback,they just surrender in those moments and lose badly.


If that would happend in one generation ok.But when it happens for last 30 years.Something wrong with mentality that only insiders can understand details of the problem.

[Toruko]

It depends on many many Variables. full strengthen roster, injuries of players, if you get everyone in time, if the player are in shape etc. In such short tournaments losing or winning depends on one ball often. You need quality players and a team with chemistry. Our problem was always that we couldnt summon everyone together.

2022 Eurobasket was such a case. In fact we beat France in the first knock out game and lost at last because Osman couldnt make even one of the two fts following from an unsportsmanlike foul, a TO followed.

What I am trying to say is every team is on a good day able to win a game. France, Serbia and Germany outstands a bit but tbh. France doesnt scare me at all. Serbia with a full roster is very difficult Germany is surely beatable on a good day.

[Shawshank]

Tukey NT only at home is dangerous.In away they dont have team chemistry and mentality to win big.

LTU NT simply have worst perimeter guards than anybody from top 10 even some top 20 Nt have better guards. Thats main reason why LTU NT is just average last decade.


If being honest neither LTU,neither Turkey will win anything in 2020s decade. There is way more impressive looking teams now and going further

[Toruko]

turkey, despite the roster, has always disappointed even with american players

Lithuania has disappointed since Eurobasket 2015 too. Its just a quality thing.

[zalias]

speaking of zalgiris.. if lonnie walker stays here the enitre season its a top 8 team that will give a hell of a time to whoever they play against in the playoffs, walker is just that good of a player. zalgiris just beat the reigning, mostly healthy, euroleague champions and it kind of felt like just another win. best defense in euroleague with now a player who can give you 20 points with ease.

[zalias]

My vision for the future is that we are going to be better than you in the future.

turkey, despite the roster, has always disappointed even with american players

[Straight forward]

Jakucionis stands out with his rebounding ability and he shows that he can make plays for others but I need to see that his shot comes around and the most crucial part will be his development in the decision making. To me he looks like a first round between 20-30 player. More of a near 20 guy.

He'll be a triple double threat in the NBA one day. Those are well drafted. I think his facilitation is special. It's not like he can make plays for others, he finds angles that other PGs don't find, and he makes some silly no look passes. I don't mind his wild creativity. Some people being grumpy on his turnovers, but KJ's facilitation style is nasty aggressive, he will make some TOs, but he also will have some 20 assists games in his career. So, yeah, you can have some scrub who would just bounce the ball and never be creative, but I go with Nash who had 3.5tos in his MVP season, or Jasikevicius averaging 4tos when Maccabi was unbeatable and they played out of this world basketball offensively. The only question is his shooting actually. Form is great and he will head to the line a lot for 3 free throws, but accuracy is not exactly there yet. To develop steady super confident three is the key for him. That's contemporary ball. If he will shoot the shit out of opposition, he can even be a star in the NBA.

[Toruko]

Actually it's started with you defending Poku in comparison with Avdija. When I said what Advija doesn't have what Poku has? And you said length, handles and so on. And yet you underrated Avdija. He can pass, he can handle, very universal. Later I just was surprised that Poku got released from OKC, think he has upside, but it's not like ever treated him as talented as Buzelis. Nope, it's not same tier projects.

Kasparas will be drafted top 10, IMO. His upside is literally ridiculous. So far he is not unleashing deadly scoring, just sticking to being floor general, but will unleash the hell in scoring as well when will fully adjust to NCAA BB and it should happen in two months. Now he's filling every category of the game, rbs, steals, assists. His feel for the game is special.

And who Garuba supposed to be? He always was one dimensional hustle player. Nothing happened with him. He never was special.

Jakucionis stands out with his rebounding ability and he shows that he can make plays for others but I need to see that his shot comes around and the most crucial part will be his development in the decision making. To me he looks like a first round between 20-30 player. More of a near 20 guy.

[Straight forward]

You praised him a lot. And the way you think is wrong imo.

Buzelis and Jakucionis are solid player material, they will land in the Euroleague in the worst case (premised they stay healthy) but your claim that they will become superstars is way too soon.

The second point is you dont know much about our situation and I am not going to argue with you about who will be better in the future. I want to see the guys. Kasparas wont be drafted higher than Pokusevski for example. And you should also stop thinking about extreme cases like Jokic. There are tons of guys who were invisible at the start turned out to be great and there are guys who disappeared after a skyscraper start.

Where is Garuba rn? My vision for the future is that we are going to be better than you in the future.

Actually it's started with you defending Poku in comparison with Avdija. When I said what Advija doesn't have what Poku has? And you said length, handles and so on. And yet you underrated Avdija. He can pass, he can handle, very universal. Later I just was surprised that Poku got released from OKC, think he has upside, but it's not like ever treated him as talented as Buzelis. Nope, it's not same tier projects.

Kasparas will be drafted top 10, IMO. His upside is literally ridiculous. So far he is not unleashing deadly scoring, just sticking to being floor general, but will unleash the hell in scoring as well when will fully adjust to NCAA BB and it should happen in two months. Now he's filling every category of the game, rbs, steals, assists. His feel for the game is special.

And who Garuba supposed to be? He always was one dimensional hustle player. Nothing happened with him. He never was special.

[Toruko]

I never hyped Pokusevski, I didn't know much about him. Never felt he's some kind of big player, nothing even close to some Buzelis upside.

My point is, you are basing your hopes on the empty space. In today's game you won't win without world class material and it won't come from no-where. Such cases as Jokic happens very very rarely.

You praised him a lot. And the way you think is wrong imo.

Buzelis and Jakucionis are solid player material, they will land in the Euroleague in the worst case (premised they stay healthy) but your claim that they will become superstars is way too soon.

The second point is you dont know much about our situation and I am not going to argue with you about who will be better in the future. I want to see the guys. Kasparas wont be drafted higher than Pokusevski for example. And you should also stop thinking about extreme cases like Jokic. There are tons of guys who were invisible at the start turned out to be great and there are guys who disappeared after a skyscraper start.

Where is Garuba rn? My vision for the future is that we are going to be better than you in the future.

[Straight forward]

I never hyped Pokusevski, I didn't know much about him. Never felt he's some kind of big player, nothing even close to some Buzelis upside.

My point is, you are basing your hopes on the empty space. In today's game you won't win without world class material and it won't come from no-where. Such cases as Jokic happens very very rarely.