Kaunas Zalgiris Thread

[Straight forward]

not sure how jokubaitis coming back to zalgiris is a step back, his role on barca got smaller every single year, there is nothing that indicates he will suddenly start playing 25 minutes per game. coming back to zalgiris as a starting point guard and having a solid season would increase his stocks much more than another season in barcelona playing 15 minutes per game.

I believe you don't exactly evaluate the difference between Barca and Zalgiris. If you have a serious role in Barca, Real kinda team, you are already playing in elite environment. Any Barca's role player, like Smirts, is instantly one of the leader of Zalgiris. So Barca has like 12-13 players who would instantly become one of Zalgiris keys. Zalgiris is average, second rate EL team. Jokubaitis already had effective production and season playing here as freakin' baby. Why would he want to come back there? It's not like he's not playing in Barca. He has legitimate back-up role for elite club and he's still very young player. His scoring average is all time high in ACB. People don't get it in one kind of luxurious situation Jokubaitis is. So, imagine next season Jokubaitis minutes in Barca increases just 2 or 3 minutes and he's playing like 20mpg. Is that bad for 24yo guard who still is few years away from his prime? No, that's far from being in bad situation Macic as 24yo was playing for Zalgiris 22mpg and that team was Zalgiris, a good one, but still not on Barca's level. Before that, Micic was spending time in Bayern, Zvezda and so on while Jokubaitis snatching third season in elite environment. Jasikevicius made EL only being 24yo. People don't get in what kind of good situation Jokubaitis is. He has been in the best possible situation from all young EL players, consistently getting a role (+15) in EL for 4 seasons now and has 2302:31min. total in EL. No-one his age in EL played more, seen more, made clutch buckets more, is more ready for big things. He is working his way to be the starter of elite EL team. Going back to Zalgiris would mean he's failing in top clubs and aiming to get his identity back in the lower level and that's not the case. In upcoming two season Jokubaitis will work his way to become the starter for top EL club, not Zalgiris. If he will come back to Zalgiris, it will mean he's on slump career wise and I don't see it. Jokubaitis will have a better second half of the season with Barca just as he did it last season and in next two seasons he will become a starter for Barca/Real/Fener type of club, not Zalgiris.

I agree If after 3 years he still get first season minutes it means he is not improving what most fans expected from biggest ltu guard prospect of last 10 years

Looking from historical standpoint I don't remember top 10 ltu players of all time to be stuck as backup for 3 seasons in same place

Those Marcela,Jaskas,Macas, Siska,Karnisovas or Kleiza types they would win starters minutes mostly already in first year, worst case scenerio in 2nd year, but to be backup for 3 years it showing signs Jokubaitis is not that level of talent.

His trajectory looks to be going more to 12-20 best ltu players of all time like Kaukenas,Grigonis,Stombergas levels. They eventually was starters of top 8 foreign euroleague club but didn't came and took one of the main roles in good euroleague team by storm how top 10 ltu players of all time historically was doing

You don't remember such players cause no-one at the age of 21-22 played in elite clubs. Marciulionis was spending his time in Statyba till he got 24yo. Jasikevicius made debut in Barca only 24yo. Macijauskas made Tau being 23yo and he's the only proper example to support your false point, Siska ended up in elite PAO only being 28yo, Karnisovas made Barca being 24yo, Kleiza was a role player in Nuggets for years.

Also you totally screwed putting Stomba, Kaukenas and Grigonis into the same tier. Stombergas is from completely different, elite tier. Kaukenas and Grigonis were just role players for elite clubs at best.

To sum up, for both of you guys, I do expect and ask the leap from Jokubaitis next year. 24yo is proper time to aim for some bigger things. But mind that same Micic had a brake out season only being 25yo for Efes. Later he became MVP. At the worst case scenario, Jokubaitis minutes next season will increase 2-3 minutes, IMO, and that adds to his current 17mpg. You don't go back to Zalgiris to play 26-27mpg, when you play for Barca 20mpg and fighting for the chance to become the No.1 PG on elite stage of EL.

[Dreamcatcher]

Barca has like 12-13 players who would instantly become one of Zalgiris keys.

I watched quite a lot of Barca's games in EL this season and i would emphasize a strong half of the roster: Vesely, Laprovittola, Hernangomez, Parker, Satoransky, Kalinic. I highly doubt that Parra (this one is somehow a crappy player), Abrines, Da Silva, Nnaji, Brizuela (even if i like this one) would instantly be among the best Zalgiris players. Don't pay attention only on name. Before Saras Barca wasn't f4 team for a while. In fact Zalgiris even was a stronger team sometimes.

Of course generally and most likely every season Barca is a better team. But it's a question if it wouldn't be better to come back to Zalgiris instead of having not impactful role in Barca again. Why are you so sure that his minutes will be increased? Anyway, it doesn't matter because i don't think he will go back to Kaunas.

Also, don't emphasize his unique role among young EL players. Nowadays all really good young players go to NBA. This situation is different from old times.

[Straight forward]

I watched quite a lot of Barca's games in EL this season and i would emphasize a strong half of the roster: Vesely, Laprovittola, Hernangomez, Parker, Satoransky, Kalinic. I highly doubt that Parra (this one is somehow a crappy player), Abrines, Da Silva, Nnaji, Brizuela (even if i like this one) would instantly be among the best Zalgiris players. Don't pay attention only on name. Before Saras Barca wasn't f4 team for a while. In fact Zalgiris even was a stronger team sometimes.

Of course generally and most likely every season Barca is a better team. But it's a question if it wouldn't be better to come back to Zalgiris instead of having not impactful role in Barca again. Why are you so sure that his minutes will be increased? Anyway, it doesn't matter because i don't think he will go back to Kaunas.

Also, don't emphasize his unique role among young EL players. Nowadays all really good young players go to NBA. This situation is different from old times.

I have no doubt Abrines would be huge for Zalgiris. He's ex NBA player, elite shooter and elite defender. One of rare true 3 and D players and in Zalgiris he would have much more freedom and much more shots. Da Silva was 9ppg in 18min. for Alba before Barca and he grew since then as a player, I think he would be very nice. Nnaji is ticking bomb, he can explode any moment. Drafted, athletic freal. So basically you surely have around 10 players who would be either key or super important role players for Zalgiris instantly. Barca still stands second in EL, bro Even with pretty crappy coaching.

Jokubaitis so far showed steady improvement and I think it's natural to expect that his role will increase. His age suggests that too and Sato won't be any better. Rokas showed obvious impovements via NT and you can easily guess his role will grow. On other hand, he might end up in some Fener. Jasikeviciaus may already want him to be the key PG for the team (there's Zagars though, so probably not). I just don't see Zalgiris case. EL GMs are not stupid, they realize that if you unleash Jokubaitis, he can bring things. Simply Barca now has Sato and Lapro who are a bit better ATM, so they play bigger roles, all reasonable.

Yeah, but I'm emphasizing EL young players. Jokubaitis got super a lot. He brakes playing minutes records of young age and so on. Jokubaitis is not a world class prospect, he's elite EL prospect.

[zalias]

i guess smits coming to zalgiris, becoming a solid starter, doubling his salary also means he's in a slump career wise . he probably prays everyday wishing he was still on barca playing 10 minutes per game.

its also funny how you mention micic as an example, a player who become a star only after leaving Saras. Jokubaitis going barca was and still is an objectively a bad move.

[Straight forward]

i guess smits coming to zalgiris, becoming a solid starter, doubling his salary also means he's in a slump career wise . he probably prays everyday wishing he was still on barca playing 10 minutes per game.

Smits left Barca exactly for the reason that he had no hope to play more there. He simply had no upside to become a starter for Barca. Jokubaitis has. He has all chances to play more for Barca in the future. It's like it would be a surprise if his role wouldn't increase, not vice versa.

BTW, Smits is not a solid starter, he's the second best player on the team after Evans. In Barca he was 4.4ppg, 14mpg kinda player.

I think your green glasses are a little too green.

[Shawshank]

Dinosour expert



all best europes young players is nba in 2020s .Who cares how much minutes he played in euroleague by 23 that not an achievement because his future main opponnets of 2020s fiba era is in nba not euroleague.

By 5th euroleague season all timer should make bigger steps and improve faster not still making baby steps that my point.Why i dislike Jokubaitis trajectory.


When you look at historical players. When they were put in new situation how fast they would become main players.That shows players adaptability and tallents.

Take any top 10 ltu player all time . They need 1 max 2 years into new situation and becoming leaders in that situation (im talking about europe,nba is diffrent world)

If Jokubaitis would be some 4-5th NT guard sure this projection would look good.But we are talking about nr 1 lithuanian guard of 2020s decade here.


Judging age tottaly diffrent eras and players who started euroleague at 18 and who at 23 its only show lack historical knowledge about basketball.

Siskauskas was 22,Macijauskas 23,Jasikevicius 24 when they play key roles in medal winning teams outplaying euroleague players in fiba they were better than today Jokubaitis is at 23.

That they didnt play earlier in euroleague its not because of level its because it was tottaly diffrent times.



Grigonis this season is starting 5 player who plays 28min of top 8 euroleague team and he is still calling him role player.

Kaukenas was playing 25min for Montepaschi that was making final fours thats not a role player at all.

Role players is Jokubaitis and Brazdeikis this season. Get your facts right dude



After seeing 3 years stuck as backup my prediction Jokubaitis will reach Grigonis/Kaukenas levels he will be starter of top 8 euroleague team in his maturity years but will not reach big 4 ltu all time guards level.Top 10 of all time LTU players clearly was progressing faster put in new situations.

Marciulionis was Nr 1 guard of entire Ussr at of 23. Thats means he was best guard of 100million gigantic people country and he is writting he was playing in Statyba till 24 like he was some D.Giedraitis level


Yeah because Marciulionis had no choice,he couldnt even travel for holiday to Spain forget playing there. How cluesless historically person knowledge should be to compare like that my god. Thats why its useless to discuss with him he have no historical basketball knowledge and have no clue how to compare diffrent eras.

He compares 1980s bananas with 2020s apples and thinks its same

[Straight forward]

I'm not sure it's worth it to reply for low life as Shawshank, name giving, unable to stay in respectable debate, unable to read polemic opponent's points carefully before jumping to conclusions (missing tons of points) and getting too emotional during his own replies. Some personalities here obviously got spoiled.

But one of my rare replies for you and probably one of the last ones.

You missing the point that it's all about the level. I never said that Jokubaitis necessary better than Rooney, Saras, Siska, Macas (top tier of LTU guards) or even necessary on exact same tier, I said that at the age 21-22 Jokubaitis played at higher level. That's the difference. You can't ask 21-22yo to become one of the keys in Barca or Real and such. This is stupid. None of LTU guards ever did it and probably only Marciulionis (maybe Macijauskas too) could, but we don't know that for certain cause it never happened, they never had a chance to do that. Dig it? We can only say that Macijauskas was super impressive becoming one of Tau's leaders being 23yo, and Jokubaitis is not able to become such as 23yo of Barca. So that's a fact, but we don't know how Saras or Siska could deal with such situation cause being 23yo they played at lower level (whatever the reason). Claiming that they would had become they keys of Barca, Tau, PAO or other elite EL club at that time (being 23yo) is just speculation, we don't know that cause they never got the chance. Partially because of worse scouting, different times, but also because they may not be ready. Remember that Siska spent a lot of year in non elite Benneton till he got to PAO. Mesina said "Siska needed time to become elite player of Europe" something like that. It was more about Siska's mentality.

NT is a good platform to compare Jokubaitis to others, that's true. 22yo Jokubaitis was 12,6ppg, 5.8as, 15eff for a weaker team and Siska was 6.6ppg and 7,3eff for much stronger team. So it's hard to evaluate. Siska became one of true keys in 2001, being 23yo. Was Siska at 22 better than Jokubatis? It's hard to say. My gut feeling says he was a bit better, but we don't have the date that we could surely compare. They played for very different level NTs and clubs at this age. Saras at 22 was in Rytas, so it's not even debatable, and in the NT as 22yo Saras was 4.6ppg, 3.2eff. That 1998WC team was more or less on the same tier with 2023WC team, maybe slightly better, but more or less the same tier, IMO. So Jasikevicius wasn't a better player than Jokubaitis as 22yo. Macijauskas made NT only being 23yo so no comparison available. As 22yo he played for Rytas which is not even close Barca.

So far there's no evidence that Jokubaitis development is inferior compared to A tier LTU all time guards, except that Macijauskas exceeded him with that instant explosion in TAU being 23yo. Actually Jokubaitis so far exceeds Jasikevicius, IMO, but next season Jokubaitis needs to make very serious leap (like becoming one of keys of Barca and leading NT 2025 to big things, medals) if he wants to go the same trajectory as Saras did.

Jokubaitis really did a lot so far, but off course I'm also concerned that his role is not increasing and that we see big inconsistencies in his EL role and performance thus far. He needs to make that next step and show that he has elite EL's player's upside which I believe he has.

Another mistake you do, you miss the point that current PAU and Kaukenas' Siena were not elite EL teams. It may been borderline elite, but surely not elite. Elite teams are like recent Barca, Real or previously CSKA and Efes. They always are in the final 4, no matter what. Kaukenas played for true elite team and that was Real for one season and he did pretty well, was 8.1eff player, but he wasn't no-where close being among the keys and spent only one season there. Current PAO is also not an elite team. Grigonis only played for elite team CSKA and he also was far for being one of the leaders. Both Kaukenas and Grigonis were just solid, or some could argue borderline elite EL SGs, but surely not elite. If you don't see the differences between Siska/Macas and Kaukenas/Grigonis, not only god can help. Stombergas was elite cause he was one of the keys of championship Zalgiris and elite Tau which played in EL finals and so on.

Also, you make another false presumption that Jokubaitis is projected as the best LTU guard of 2020s. ATM it's surely not legitimate claim. Rubstavicius upside and profile is much better fit for NBA, most of scouts would back this up instantly. Jakucionis is more impressive as prospect being 16-17yo than Jokubaitis was and probably Indrusaitis and Buika are too. So this claim that Jokubaitis is no1 guard of 20s is way off. We don't know that and at least Jakucionis seems to be bigger prospect as guard for sure.

[Straight forward]

When Jarutis says that he hears that very interesting clubs are interested in Marciulionis, I think he means Zalgiris from LTU clubs. We do know that Rytas wants to get back Marciulionis and that's the best team after Zalgiris in LTU, so I think Jarutis was referring to Zalgiris, nothing else would be "interesting" or surprising., and I'm guessing some other EL clubs or strong Eurocup teams.

I agree with people who think that Zalgiris might make couple of smart long term moves in the off season getting players like Sirvydis, Marciulionis in the first place and maybe Tubelis too. Those, IMO, should be their long term priorities, as well maybe as Rubstavicius (even through I think he's all into NBA now). The smart move would be like that. Make a contract with Marciulionis and loan him to Rytas for a season. Maybe in this case, Rytas would even lower the buyout which shouldn't be out of this world anyway. Lekavicius days are kinda counted. Zalgiris needs to look for another long term back up PG and it would be the best if it's Lithuanian (they also have ties with Kriisa, but Augis is Lithuanian and they want to have Lithuanian core). Marciulionis is loyal to Vilnius, bet long term he would want to play in El anyway and Zalgiris for him is the best path most likely. Lekavicius, IMO, can bring 2 more seasons at best I think. Likely one. I don't know what is his contract.

Another smart proposal is to sign Sirvydis and to loan him to either Alba or other weaker EL club. That would be very smart. Zalgiris has to solve things with Dimsa and D. Giedraitis, Ulanovas in few years will probably be done, so hooking Sirvydis long term would be smart, but they shouldn't necessary bring him over instantly. Not because he's not ready, but because his position is crowded with Lithuanians ATM - Ule, Butke, Dimsa, Giedraitis.

Tubelis surely needs one season in Eurocup/CL first. Let him play a season with Rytas. Than grab him and he might be new "Smits" for Zalgiris long term, or faster Jankunas if you like.

If Zalgiris would lock all 4 these players long term (like having Rubsta draft and stashed) if would be out if this world success and master job. It they would sign 3 of those long term (Rubsta aside) ir would still be masterful. If 2 of them, very good job. If one of these, like Sirvydis, decent job. IMO, Zalgiris shouldn't sleep when so much talent on the table. But they also should be willing to loan at first and let Rytas to have a slack.

Off course, it would be interesting to see how Rytas' fans would take it, if Marciulionis or Tubelis would be long term Zalgiris property while at the moment balling for Rytas. That probably might be an issue to certain extent

My gut feeling says that Rubsta will go straight to NBA. Sirvydis will sign with Baskonia or something similar. Tubelis may provide a shocker and sign long term with one of Baskonia, PAO, OLY. And Marciulionis will stick with Rytas because of loyalty for some time.

I mean those gems can be fished by bigger markets easily. If Zalgiris will act strongly in this situation, it will show that Jankunas is worth something.

[zalias]

not sure marciulionis has done anything to get a long term contract by zalgiris, his ncaa career doesnt look inspiring, wolves is probably more likely. Sirvydis is the only player they should try to sign. loan giedraits, slide ulanovas to pf if thats what it takes.they cant pass up on a 23 year old eurocup scoring leader. tubelis is also tricky because of that buyout and of course his controversial zalgiris logo stomp.

[Straight forward]

IDK, I think Lekavicius is not exactly competitive anymore in EL. He can't deliver. In 2021-22 he still was legit back-up with 10.2ppg and 10,9eff which is very nice, but he can't deliver anymore, his efficiency now is only 3.8. I think Lukas career was really great in EL, but it's almost over. He can't deal with EL physicality anymore basically. He lost is stint of athleticism and that's it, he's nearly done. He always had to work 110% to overcome his lack of size, but he can't go like this forever.

I also think Zalgiris has too much too mediocre Lithuanians ATM. I would say good-buy to Lavrinovic, Birutis, Lekavicius, Dimsa. Even the same Butkevicius is not exactly shinning compared to previous season. ATM, Lithuanian core is bleak. The best player Ulanovas is also worse than last season. Only positive that slowly Giedraitis talent prevailing. It's a process and Zalgiris has to be patient with it, but he will get there eventually.

Current LTU core is getting old or not competitive enough. Lekavicius, Ulanovas, Butkevicius, Dimsa will all have to be cleared soon, IMO, if Zalgiris wants to be more competitive. This off season I would be looking at Sirvydis, Rubstavicius, Marciulionis, Tubelis. They have to get more talent to stay competitive. If next season Zalgiris will run with the same Liths, the picture will probably be even worse. Hope Zalgiris won't be stupid enough to bring 32yo Giedraitis.

The way I see it, next season will be bleak again. Zalgiris has to spurt new integration of talented Liths, either loan them or throw them into fire. With current core they are not going anywhere anymore. Ulanovas kinda sucks defensively already. Too slow and sleepy.

[zalias]

ricky rubio might join barcelona, things are looking good for jokubaitis

[Straight forward]

ricky rubio might join barcelona, things are looking good for jokubaitis

Having a training college Rubio sounds good. He can learn few things from him. Rubio just wants to be in practices. And it's good for Jakcionis too. I take it as another benefit being in Barca system.

[Shawshank]

Its fantastic for Rokas if Rubio would be just sparing partner. He could learn alot from him,just watching Rubio how he reads the the situations.

But logically looking what would be next step for Rubio if he feel he is ready to play again?

signed team friendly contract for remaining of the season to prepare his body for olympics. Jokubaitis,Satoransky minutes would decrease in such case.


Players who are done playing they arent searching for way to play again. If player shows signs of that its good indicitacion where his brain is leaning towards


Such highest quality player if again will feel joy of playing basketball can become very seriuos weapon. Good shape Rubio can make similiar effect to Barcelona what Campazzo did to Madrid this year.

[Dreamcatcher]

Birutis looks like a very solid EL center under Trinchieri. And overall players are used better. Italian seems to be a higher level coach than Maksvytis. I didn't expect that it was going to be seen so soon.

Zalgiris players (locals probably) screwed so much by postponing changes for 2 weeks.

[Shawshank]

Trinchieri first games was letting Lukas play and it looked ok.

But after few weeks having a chance to see all players abilities it seems even Trinchieri realised two way Dimsa and Giedraitis is simply better basketball players than very one sided Lekavicius

I like Dimsa and Giedraitis hiqh iq play with real defence way more than Lekavicius and Sumners chaotic play