All time NT

[Shawshank]

I think u also underestimating Ulanovas at PF like in zalgiris lineups and Ulanovas words and didnt said im retired from NT in 2023 summer interview.

What tournament Ulanovas never played and was cut from in last minute? that tournament he will want to play.like 99% of world athletes.


Zalgiris played lineups Dimsa,Brazdeikis,Butkevicius,Ulanovas,Smit even in playooofs versus Barcelona with Mirotic

I dont mind seeing lineup Jokubaitis,Grigonis,Butkevicius,Ulanovas,Sabonis that feels like modern 2020s basketball lineup.


+ Jonas,Sedekerskis,Kuzminskas,Brazdeikis and we have our top 9 men that will plays most teams minutes.



Dimsa/Normantas/Giedraitis/Lekavicius will get 2 remaining guards spots. Btw i liked Dimsa/Normantas play in 2023 more than i did Lekavicius/Giedraitis in 2022



Bendzius/Dmo/Tubelis/Echodas one of them will get remaining 5th big place and 4minute role.

[Straight forward]

Ulanovas doesn't play in the NT since 2019 and he was "considering playing" all that time in 21, 22, 23. To trust his participation is complete gamble. It's not serious.

Ulanovas wouldn't be a big in the NT. He would never be taken as PF. Forget about it. Ulanovas is OK for short stretches at 4, but nothing else. In Zalgiris it was the same and NT is different animal. Even in Zalgiris he was used only in very short stretches, sometimes closing games. Yeah, it would be nice, I would like to see it, but we have no clue whenever Ulanovas will show and it's more like no.

Dimsa/Normantas better than Lekavicius in EB? To me no. Lekavicius dropped 15pts against Spain and was carrying us in the most important game. Margiris scored 8pts against Serbia, but very bad defense overall and Dimsa had a game off.

NT problems are obvious. Lack of creative players (guards) and defensive bigs. If NT want to move forward we have to work on these issues. That's why I'm pushing Tubelis in as he can add some defensive coherence playing mobile D at 5 for short stretches and Marciulionis (at 1) and Rubstavicius (at 2). I hope to see all 3 the camp as they are natural next steps improving NT and bringing what it lacks. Not saying they necessary have to make 2024, just saying they should be monitored closely.

BTW, Gecevicius was right on other thing too. He said, yeah, Grigonis would bring more than Dimsa/Normantas, but he is also not the piece that NT needs from guards today. Ability to brake the defense, play against switch all in ISO situations, create for others. Grigonis is primarily a shooter.

The way I see it even with 100% roster we have only better chances to win something, but we have no team that can match best NTs in the world ATM. Simply because we lack elite creative guards who can be game changers (Jokubaitis is the only ATM who is close to that) from perimeter and we are super vulnerable defensively because our bigs are slow as fuck or offensively minded. When we will solve these two issues then we will be contending and seriously fighting (and actually winning) medals again.

Yeah, the addition of Sabonis, Grigonis, Ulanovas would be very important, but it doesn't solve our essential problems. We would still be looking to over-achievement in Olympic context.

[LuDux]

Assuming my calculations are correct, if old FIBA ranking system was used, Lithuania would still be 10th.

[Shawshank]

Under new federation heads Lithuania basketball has fallen to lowest 10th position in fiba rankings ever

With such ranking position is not given to be in 2nd strongest pot before draws in upcomming tournaments

[Shawshank]

Yes in my eyes Dimsa/Normantas 2023 overall defence+offrence played better than Lekavicius/Giedraitis did in 2022


Im repeating here for long time NT is loosing games in 2017-2023 because of weak individual guards compared to top 8 NTs.


Unless NT with time will have more Euroleague/nba perimeter strong players i dont see anything changing drastically results wise


Its pipe dream imagine we can win medals having one of the weakest guards from all top 10 NTs in guard dominated era

[Straight forward]

Yes in my eyes Dimsa/Normantas 2023 overall defence+offrence played better than Lekavicius/Giedraitis did in 2022


Im repeating here for long time NT is loosing games in 2017-2023 because of weak individual guards compared to top 8 NTs.


Unless NT with time will have more Euroleague/nba perimeter strong players i dont see anything changing drastically results wise


Its pipe dream imagine we can win medals having one of the weakest guards from all top 10 NTs in guard dominated era

Finally you understood. You always had that idea that JV and 1992 guys will bring medals. I was telling you, it's ain't happening. It's an average guys basically (role players) and JV who is horrible fit fir modern ball. LTU sometimes delivered overachievements, but it won't happen all the time specially with FIBA on big rise of level if you ask me.

Unfortunately our coaches still don't understand that. They would invest into average players as more reliable option, but it doesn't lead to anything. No results no and no benefits later. If Marciulionis was back-up PG in WC the result would be the same, but it would be big step forward developing legit high level back up PG long term. If Tubelis was instead of Maldunas, we would have a beast for next tournaments. Now both Kariniauskas and Maldunas will be goners for good and we have nothing in our hands when it comes to WC. Basically same story in our basketball except when Kazlauskas and Sireika was coaching.

We need bold moves integrating needed pieces. Most talented players for they nominal positions absolutely must be integrated as soon as possible because we have been dragging behind, became sleeping, old school, out-dated, mediocre basketball province. Only Jokubaitis and Brazdeikis was a push forward, but that happened only because they were among the leaders instantly. There was no single push and credit for single talented new comer (Sederskis cut in 2021 and 2022 was the best example of our attitude) and that's insanity knowing for how long we are in the crisis and how much we need to update our talent level and have long term vision.

I was staring to talk that JV becoming a problem ever since 2016, 2017. But we didn't do anything. We missed what's happening in basketball, we didn't plan ahead, we failed to understand that building around JV will cause the longest NT crisis ever and the longest medals thirst ever, we continue to sleep even when we finally have talent (we pushed aside Tubelis, Marciulionis, Giedraitis, Jogela, Velicka didn't even talk over seriously with Rubstavicius and so on). The way I see it we will continue to be passive and not pro active in terms of fighting this crisis and solving the issues long term cause Maksvytis never showed any signs of caring about NT long term, even Olympic cycle term (differently than Kazlauskas). He again will make zero bold moves, will take all the locks and average players in the remaining spots and will do what he has been doing.

We specially screwed in the period 2020-2023. We already had some real talents as Sedekerskis, Marciulionis, Tubelis, D. Giedraitis and so on, but we kept them aside. We never been pro active to improve our backcourt and no long term vision what so ever. What if Marciulionis was sitting out in 2022 like Zemaitis did and playing in few games? What if 2023 was his second season? I bet we would have a guy who already has a swagger and understanding about this environment. We would have legitimate athletic defensive/facilitating PG. Our creation and ability to brake perimeter defense as well as to defend perimeter would be at another level in 2024 for example. Now we will have no D from a back up PG cause Lekavicius and Kariniauskas can't play D and team's as Serbia will make fun of us again. That's just an example. We never fought that crisis, never tried to solve our issues pro actively. When Maksvytis was hired he never talked about all Olympic cycle. Never. He was all occupied with one step ahead. That's what happens when you hire a guy who already coaches Zalgiris and he doesn't even have proper time for the NT. That's on federation obviously.

This Olympic cycle has been a failure. We didn't do anything. Just passively played outdated ball and didn't work on our issues. I will remember 2020-2024 stretch as passive reconciliation of remaining in the crisis. I can't blame Adomaitis, he didn't yet have pieces, but Maksvytis had and he simply never cared about testing and integrating all the best talent (starting with not inviting Sirvydis to the camp in 22, cutting Sedekerskis, not even taking good looking Marciulionis to the main camp of 23 and so on).

So this Olympic cycle was passive and chaotic as fuck and we badly needed long term vision at the start of it. Now it's too late, no moves have been made. No homework, so this Olympic cycle has been utilized something like 70%, that's how I take it.

The good news is that whoever will coach NT in the next cycle, NT will have strong pieces nevertheless. So even if passive coach as Maksvytis will continue, we just inevitably will have strong take in next cycle, specially when we speak about 2027 WC and 2028 Olympics, We will have stacked team, stacked in the fashion of 1992-2008 period standards. At least that's what I see looking at our upcoming talent.

[Shawshank]

U as always dreaming we having real perimeter tallents,but in reality that simply is not the case.

I dont see no strong lithuanian perimeter players in euroleague or nba that coaches could take like it used to be in 2000s or winning medals 2020s other NTs coaches have to choose from

Best what we had in 2020-2024 is Barcelona or Panathinaikos backup 15min guards like Grigonis or Jokubaitis


When last time any LTU perimeter player had 25-30pts type game in NT? 10 years ago Kleiza?

LTU NT used to have multiple such 25pts type games in every winning tournament from past NT leaders



When i see Doncic,Mills,Bogdanovich,Schroder,Fournier types putting 25pts+ performances and winning games for NT with individual masterclass

I think: damm our guards ale Jokubaitis,Grigonis with their best 15pts games is very average level

Dinosour expert see same thing and says: its Valanciunas fault

[Straight forward]

As always youre too limited to see whole picture. Zagars exploded coming from LKL. Jasikevicius was raised in NT coming from NCAA, as well as Karnisovas, Kleiza and so on. You don't wait till you have EL MVP to make a move, specially when you're in shit. But you are just another LTU provincial so you're ok with passiveness. Kazkauskas could handle this Olympic cycle so much better. There was options.

[Shawshank]

Could u tell me please when the last time any lithuanian perimeter player had 25pts game?


Individual perimeter ltu scoring tallent is joke compared to medal winning NT perimeter stars of last 6-8 years


We are seeing how long Jokubaitis need to get to that level and he had basketball proffesor teaching him 3-4 years and giving him minutes on eruoleague levels.


If player isnt battle tested on highest levels in euroleague/nba in club 9 months marathon no NT head coach will make miracles in one month with untested players in summer

[Straight forward]

Could u tell me please when the last time any lithuanian perimeter player had 25pts game?


Individual perimeter ltu scoring tallent is joke compared to medal winning NT perimeter stars of last 6-8 years


We are seeing how long Jokubaitis need to get to that level and he had basketball proffesor teaching him 3-4 years and giving him minutes on eruoleague levels.


If player isnt battle tested on highest levels in euroleague/nba in club 9 months marathon no NT head coach will make miracles in one month with untested players in summer

Zagars dropped 24pts against Germany in this Eurobasket. 21yo Kerr Kriisa dropped 20pts against Italy in EB 2022. One came from LKL, other from NCAA.

It's not about how to match SGA, Doncic, Bogdanovic, Schroder instantly, it's about how to raise material that will eventually allow you to win something. With Dimsa, Normantas we are going nowhere, let alone Kariniauskases. That's what NT coaches don't understand. Why to waist time with them if you know that you won't do it with them? Why not to give 11-12 spots for talents who might be legit in few years. NT experience is completely different world and animal. You have to go through it. Marciulionis will have a solid NCAA season, book it. If he now had 2 NT seasons or at least 1 under his belt, we would have legitimate force as a back up in 2024. Defensively definitely and offensively he wouldn't be worse than Kariniauskases. My point is very simple - make moves that makes your NT better. We didn't do that. We simply say - there's no bigs for contemporary basketball (and leaving Tubelis aside) and there's no high level back up PG (ignoring upcoming Marciulionis who showed obvious glimpses of what we need in reserve NT).

[Shawshank]

is Zagars or Krissa lithuanians?Btw Did they won medals or just had one good game? Fiba stars need to have multiple such scoring games to win medals.


Sometimes like Mills have to go deep in his tallent and give 42pts to get bronze medal for his country.Coaching in those cases had very little to do ,just elite perimeter player deciding im not allow my NT medal be taken again.

U think canadian coach did some special coaching ,rebuilding their NT program? or just Shai refused to let canadians to fail with not making olympics again? and beat Spain in last 5 minutes by himself.

When last time any NT won medal in fiba and didnt had atleast one guard playing on elite level ?


So u cant find a single lithuanian perimeter player with 25pts game since Kleiza in 2013 in NT and u blame coaches or Valanciunas for not winning medal in guards dominated era?


Ok what about finding last lithuanian perimeter player who had 25pts game in euroleague or nba arena? U are telling tales how much tallented ltu perimeter players we have right now.

[Straight forward]

How having or not having some cooking games by current players denies the fact that we have good guard prospects coming? It doesn't.

All this is about just to defend JV? Come on, man...JV played well against Spain 22? Where was he? JV played well in 2016? Your homersim is funny. You're a grown up man.

Iggy dropped 25 in EL last season. Lekavicius dropped 29 in 2017. Kalnietis dropped 26pts against CRO 2016. It's irrelevant though. We don't have the pieces that we need yet, but jokubaitis and Brazdeikis will be (at least Jokubaitis).

We simply need to push the integration of talents since we finally have them. It will take time, but the longer we hesitate the longer time it will take being without nothing.

[Straight forward]

Truth is that JV in 2016 Olympics gave 13pts as the best one and in Olympic qualification 2020 (2021) only 14pts against Slovenia (the only relevant game). And that's the guy we have been building around and pushing the ball inside for him all the time. However you watch JV's era was a disaster. When Kalnietis was cooking in 2016 he sucked. When Iggy, Lekavicius, Jokubaitis provided in 22 JV was dead against Spain. Maybe having some monster game in the knock out stage would help from the best player, no? This ended with 2015 when he had huge game against Italy in 4finals - 26pts, 15rbs. Ever since 2015 JV has been a trash as the best player against who NT tried to build the game.

[Shawshank]

Im talking about medal winning main thing i dont care who is center or who is 11-12th players on NTs they do not decide will NT win medal or not.


You know who decides? Do NT have elite perimeter scorer or not that will beat all those 2020s switch defences on his own individual greatness


Spain example with Brown in and out shown that

Good Mills and old Mills shown that.

Shai in his first tournament and first canadian medal since 1936

2021 Germany without Schroder and Germany 2022 and 2023 2 medals with Schroder

Serbia with Jokic (and no Bog) didnt win nothing,Serbia with killer Bogdanovich already played 4th final (2014,2016,2017,2023)



How manny more recent examples do we need, untill we start realising what is happening in those short 2 weeks fiba tournaments and what is deciding factor?


Without elite fiba perimeter player LTU or any other NTs is doomed for 5-15th place finishes how game is played now

[Straight forward]

That's why going with JV for a decade, playing old school ancient basketball and not making any realistic efforts to develop guards was insanity. It was stupid short minded attitude without long term thinking and realization what's happening in basketball. We became total basketball province while in 00s we were pioneers of fast, uptempo offensive basketball, often playing small ball as it was still revolutionary at that time. And then the radical decline...we see slow seven footer trying to slowly post up something with his 14ppg average while being No.1 focus in the offense...Dead end...

And, dude, don't pretend like you were not preaching that JV and 1992 generation will bring us medals. You were preaching and preaching this "how prime 1992 generation, grow up men" will do it I was telling you it ain't happening, forget it. Now you preaching how no-one understands that guards make difference, duh...good morning!