All time NT

[LithuanianCramWatch]

Follow-up on Big Z

[QUOTE=Mindozas;937516]It's neverending discussion about Ilgauskas. Some calls him traitor, some understands his decisions. I'm with latter. Probably cause I had a chance to know about his condition quite a lot from very reliable sources and I understand his decisions perfectly. Believe me, it's unenviable situation. And afterall really sad case for both NT and Ilgauskas himself. Maybe exactly that was the reason why I still put him in my list, he still played couple of games and was 2nd best center after Sabas we ever had. But I do understand why you didn't pick him, it's just different views on this situation

Could you possibly elaborate more on this? I'm pretty ignorant on the whole matter of what happened. Or is there a good source I might read? Maybe this is taking things off-topic, in which case I apologize.

[Mindozas]

Could you possibly elaborate more on this? I'm pretty ignorant on the whole matter of what happened. Or is there a good source I might read? Maybe this is taking things off-topic, in which case I apologize.

It's NT matter. Ilgauskas never represented NT in any official tournament, just played few qualifying games before he got injured and moved to USA where underwent series of feet surgeries and started to play for Cavs. Before moving he was accused by his coach (later federation president) for faking injury, but actually as time showed, it was much more serious than anyone could've thought. Well as it turned out, Ilgauskas never played for NT again. In 2008 Ilgauskas wanted to play, but back injury occured and last hope was gone. So some people called him traitor through-out all his career, who doesn't give a f*ck about his country, some said that he is mad on federation president cause of that accusations and etc, so that's the reason he doesn't want to represent NT anymore. I was this the latter at first. But I wasn't aware how complicated situation actually was until I get to know about it all from some sources close to situation. Ilgauskas wasn't mad, he did give a f*ck about his country and wanted to represent it badly, but he had very serious health issues, which didn't allow him. Basically every summer it was dilemma for him: either rest his body (feets) during NBA off-season as every doc, club insisted him to do so; either play for NT, but there's very high risk that his body woudn't take it and next injury would most probably be career ending (similar case happened to Yao, he kept playin' for NT summer or few and it was all over for him). So the situation was unenviable, stakes/risk were very high, so he decided to rest during off season and only in 2008 finally wanted to take a risk, but I guess smth is never meant to be. After I get to know it all, I stopped blaming him for anything. Even I'm patriot of my country and love NT, if I'd be in Ilgauskas shoes, I don't know if I would take such risk at young age and put my bball career in jeopardy, so who am I to blame other person for taking such decision. For me was enough to know that Ilgauskas wasn't faking anything and it was big loss for him not to play for NT, just like for NT not to have him in it. Sad circumstances, sad story

[auris1]

It's NT matter. Ilgauskas never represented NT in any official tournament, just played few qualifying games before he got injured and moved to USA where underwent series of feet surgeries and started to play for Cavs. Before moving he was accused by his coach (later federation president) for faking injury, but actually as time showed, it was much more serious than anyone could've thought. Well as it turned out, Ilgauskas never played for NT again. In 2008 Ilgauskas wanted to play, but back injury occured and last hope was gone. So some people called him traitor through-out all his career, who doesn't give a f*ck about his country, some said that he is mad on federation president cause of that accusations and etc, so that's the reason he doesn't want to represent NT anymore. I was this the latter at first. But I wasn't aware how complicated situation actually was until I get to know about it all from some sources close to situation. Ilgauskas wasn't mad, he did give a f*ck about his country and wanted to represent it badly, but he had very serious health issues, which didn't allow him. Basically every summer it was dilemma for him: either rest his body (feets) during NBA off-season as every doc, club insisted him to do so; either play for NT, but there's very high risk that his body woudn't take it and next injury would most probably be career ending (similar case happened to Yao, he kept playin' for NT summer or few and it was all over for him). So the situation was unenviable, stakes/risk were very high, so he decided to rest during off season and only in 2008 finally wanted to take a risk, but I guess smth is never meant to be. After I get to know it all, I stopped blaming him for anything. Even I'm patriot of my country and love NT, if I'd be in Ilgauskas shoes, I don't know if I would take such risk at young age and put my bball career in jeopardy, so who am I to blame other person for taking such decision. For me was enough to know that Ilgauskas wasn't faking anything and it was big loss for him not to play for NT, just like for NT not to have him in it. Sad circumstances, sad story

Wasn't 2011 though, the year of his "comeback" ? And his back injury that ended it?
Plus, I always felt that Cavs maintained the faith in him regardless of his injuries by not abandoning him and such,so that it was impossible for Z to deny their request to take time off during summers for recuperation purposes.
In the end of the day,I can even accept the fact that perhaps he did not want to play for NT,ever .
He is still great player and a person to me,person who made a lot of Lithuanians proud of what he had achieved in life ,and...There is more than one way to represented our country ,which he did pretty well during his career in NBA.

[Mindozas]

Wasn't 2011 though, the year of his "comeback" ? And his back injury that ended it?

No, it was 2008 Olympics. Ilgauskas was 33yo, not so young for a pro player, but still really good, so decided to take a risk and to fullfil his dream, whatever happens, happens. Some federation members even traveled to USA and gave him NT jerseys, but all that season he had troubles with his back and the situation wasn't any better when NT camps was about to start, so he was forced to withdraw.

[Shawshank]

I understand he has seriuos injury history and playing in summer would be a big risk and so on.But common there is no escuses if Ilgauskas didnt find atleast ONE SUMMER!! in 14 years (1998-2011) to play for Lietuva thats just showed that men just didnt care at all about lithuania and their basketball end of discusion.Nobody asked him to play every summer,but he could have played atleast in most important tournaments like 2000 2004 2008 olimpic games one time in 4 years,but no he didnt find a free time even for one 1 summer in 14 years.I cant called him a traitor or something no its was his desicions and his risks but...National team is for true lithuanian players who cares,but not to money slaves like Ilgauskas.Everybody remembers sabonis,marciulionis,kurtinaitis and so on who played before ilgauskas,because our nation people respect those mens even when their playing days is over a while already,ilgauskas finished career only 3 years ,but in Lithuania he is almost forgotten totally already...I believe money cant buy that feeling when entire nation do not respect you and some of them even hate you.Shame on those fans who put ilgauskas on our all time national team roster,that men do not belong to be there period.If he really wanted to play and help our national team he would have found time and risk atleast couple times in 14years.He didnt play at all how does he could knew that playing 7-8 games in a summer gonna brake him him,if 82 games in nba didnt ?

[Darknemo2000]

G: Jasikevičius, Kalnietis
G: Marčiulionis, Macijauskas, Kurtinaitis
F: Štombergas, Šiškauskas
F: Karnišovas, Kleiza
C: Sabonis, Ilgauskas, Valančiūnas

I do not understood people who put Einikis. He drink and abuses his wife, drinking before practicing and doing cocaine. I think he do bettr if not drugs and alcohol.

Chomičius sadly did not play good, he ,33 year old in Barcelona olympics, was episodal player. This is why I put not him. Songaila played averagely. Paulauskas ,Lubinas did not count, they played before year 1992..

Einikis was really good. His drinking and other problems became clear only when he ended his career. If he didnt have to play under Sabonis shadow most of the time he could have been even bigger. His hooks were pretty much unstoppable.

[auris1]

I understand he has seriuos injury history and playing in summer would be a big risk and so on.

You don't.

Shame on those fans who put ilgauskas on our all time national team roster,that men do not belong to be there period.

Walking proudly on a high ground here ,aren't you? Imagine living with this burden ,it must be hard.
What a prick .

And lets say,had he played in one tournament,that would not had been enough for you and people alike ,would it ?
Or you would just whine about him being slow and out of pace , and really bad at rebounding ,or maybe not scoring enough points.And in the end ,people like you would come to conclusion that we never needed a player like him in a first place...

[Shawshank]

You don't.


Walking proudly on a high ground here ,aren't you? Imagine living with this burden ,it must be hard.
What a prick .

And lets say,had he played in one tournament,that would not had been enough for you and people alike ,would it ?
Or you would just whine about him being slow and out of pace , and really bad at rebounding ,or maybe not scoring enough points.And in the end ,people like you would come to conclusion that we never needed a player like him in a first place...

whats your problem? I said fact men didnt play for his national team 8 games atleast once for 14 years because it was a risk..and played 10 season 80games and there is no risk cha cha Men Ilgauskas isnt the only basketball player in the world that got seriuos injury or something.Sabonis too got 2 achilies brakes in 1986-1987 so he should said i cant play for my country,its a risk i can get injury...If you are involved in sport THERE IS ALWAYS RISK YOU GONNA GET INJURED.Im reapeting NOBODY IN LITHUANIA RESPECT ILGAUSKAS and thats kind words how to say it , it was his desicions and he will have to live with the fact that his own country people doesnt respect him ... HE never was and will be loved by fans like those true Lithuania basketball legends.I wasnt suprised like 2 years ago he said he will go for Usa citizenship,He always acted he was more american than lithuanian when he left Lithuania in 1996.

In conversations about our national team all time best,player that havent played a game shouldnt be even mentioned,he is lithuanian by blood,but by heart always was american.Do to respect such money slaves thats all.

[Mindozas]

whats your problem? I said fact men didnt play for his national team 8 games atleast once for 14 years because it was a risk..and played 10 season 80games and there is no risk cha cha Men Ilgauskas isnt the only basketball player in the world that got seriuos injury or something.Sabonis too got 2 achilies brakes in 1986-1987 so he should said i cant play for my country,its a risk i can get injury...If you are involved in sport THERE IS ALWAYS RISK YOU GONNA GET INJURED.Im reapeting NOBODY IN LITHUANIA RESPECT ILGAUSKAS and thats kind words how to say it , it was his desicions and he will have to live with the fact that his own country people doesnt respect him ... HE never was and will be loved by fans like those true Lithuania basketball legends.I wasnt suprised like 2 years ago he said he will go for Usa citizenship,He always acted he was more american than lithuanian when he left Lithuania in 1996.

In conversations about our national team all time best,player that havent played a game shouldnt be even mentioned,he is lithuanian by blood,but by heart always was american.Do to respect such money slaves thats all.

How much you must hate a person to write so much nonsenses and imaginary stuff in just 2 posts, is just beyond me

[LithuanianCramWatch]

It's NT matter. Ilgauskas never represented NT in any official tournament, just played few qualifying games before he got injured and moved to USA where underwent series of feet surgeries and started to play for Cavs. Before moving he was accused by his coach (later federation president) for faking injury, but actually as time showed, it was much more serious than anyone could've thought. Well as it turned out, Ilgauskas never played for NT again. In 2008 Ilgauskas wanted to play, but back injury occured and last hope was gone. So some people called him traitor through-out all his career, who doesn't give a f*ck about his country, some said that he is mad on federation president cause of that accusations and etc, so that's the reason he doesn't want to represent NT anymore. I was this the latter at first. But I wasn't aware how complicated situation actually was until I get to know about it all from some sources close to situation. Ilgauskas wasn't mad, he did give a f*ck about his country and wanted to represent it badly, but he had very serious health issues, which didn't allow him. Basically every summer it was dilemma for him: either rest his body (feets) during NBA off-season as every doc, club insisted him to do so; either play for NT, but there's very high risk that his body woudn't take it and next injury would most probably be career ending (similar case happened to Yao, he kept playin' for NT summer or few and it was all over for him). So the situation was unenviable, stakes/risk were very high, so he decided to rest during off season and only in 2008 finally wanted to take a risk, but I guess smth is never meant to be. After I get to know it all, I stopped blaming him for anything. Even I'm patriot of my country and love NT, if I'd be in Ilgauskas shoes, I don't know if I would take such risk at young age and put my bball career in jeopardy, so who am I to blame other person for taking such decision. For me was enough to know that Ilgauskas wasn't faking anything and it was big loss for him not to play for NT, just like for NT not to have him in it. Sad circumstances, sad story

Thank you for this helpful information. I have big gaps in my knowledge of Lithuanian basketball history and your post helps fill one. I have to apologize a little for bringing this topic up though, seeing now the conflict it brought to the page - I was just hoping to learn a bit more but maybe I stumbled onto a sore point for people.

[Darknemo2000]

Well Lithuanian government took away Lithuanian citizenship from Ilgauskas (as double citizenship is not allowed by the current laws) so Ilgauskas isnt even a Lithuanian anymore. Does that mean we should stop including him to all time lithuanian 12?

[Mindozas]

Well Lithuanian government took away Lithuanian citizenship from Ilgauskas (as double citizenship is not allowed by the current laws) so Ilgauskas isnt even a Lithuanian anymore. Does that mean we should stop including him to all time lithuanian 12?

Yes. He also shouldn't be allowed to visit Lithuania anymore, strictly prohibited to speak Lith language and eat cepelinai (or how it's called in English) On a serious note, he was and he is Lithuanian by birth, he was raised here, he learned to play bball here and while playin' he was "Lithuanian", so laws are laws, no matter how ridiculous it is sometimes, but it didn't change anything in this case, atleast for me

[Straight forward]

Yeah, there's like million people in the USA that has some sort of Lithuanian roots. Our government trying to cut all this

[macleopard13]

Yeah, there's like million people in the USA that has some sort of Lithuanian roots. Our government trying to cut all this

Well, can you blame them? If the people feel more American or Canadian than Lithuanian then what's the point of them having Lithuanian citizenship? Only those who speak and feel Lithuanian I consider as citizens.

In my view, Ilgauskas is a citizen (he speaks Lithuanian and, judging from the tears he shed when he lost his citizenship and his adoption of the two Lithuanian kids, he feels Lithuanian) and should be allowed to retain his Lithuanian passport. But laws are laws...

[Hepcat]

This is an unfortunate, messy, touchy situation. There were reasons behind the passage of the law. Should it be repealed? I don't know. I haven't studied the rationale behind the law.

Being that such a law exists though, is it right for exceptions to be made for sports celebrities? Maybe the Lithuanian state can confer "honorary citizenship" on those who have done a lot for the country? I believe Ilgauskas has been contributing financially and otherwise to the development of Lithuanian basketball, has he not? He's also been involved with Lithuanian charities of some sort as well, has he not? But then again, should "foreigners" be allowed to just buy Lithuanian citizenship?

This is not an easy question.