All time NT

[Shawshank]

every team has 1-2 leaders that plays 30+min,back in 90s our Nt have 4 players who played 35min But it was not just minutes played ,but in points scored.

1995 semifinal boxscore from 90pts 88 pts was scored by 4 players

look on youtube 1992 versus nsv group game with garastas commenting and himself he admitting i was in some shock mood and didnt sub players .

Leading game +20 in first half NT lost eventually -12.Because as Garastas says Marciulionis got tired when nsv was putting diffrent guards on him all game long.

1992 used 5 starters Sabonis,Marciulionis,Karnisovas,Kurtinaitis,Chomic ius and 6th men from second german league Krapikas. Other was more like sparing partners not real contributers.

Game and skillset of players has went ahead since 90s,but we are only NT which players skillset went other way around?

If you think that Kurtinaitis scoring at age of 32-36 couldnt be done in those 35minutes by any other top 20 our guard and wing player that not real talk.

By average it looks that at veteran age Kurtinaitis was entire head better scorer than all players from 00 and 10s (except Macijauskas).I dont believe that.

Kurtinaitis at 36 average 12,1pts in Olympics (3rd in team). Our leading scorer in 2019 WC was Valanciunas with just 14pts.

If peak Kleiza didnt average 20pts per game in our NT in this new milenium.I doubt we ever see anybody averaging 20pts in our balanced NT.

in 1995 3 players Sabonis,Marciulionis,Karnisovas together averaged 64pts thats more than 20 each.

in 2021 our scoring point leader usually is not averaging even 15pts.

So going by numbers of last 30 years all our players since 2000 is very weak offensively right compared to 90s players ?

[Straight forward]

every team has 1-2 leaders that plays 30+min,back in 90s our Nt have 4 players who played 35min But it was not just minutes played ,but in points scored.

1995 semifinal boxscore from 90pts 88 pts was scored by 4 players

So what? They just did it. They were great. Are you now guilty because you are good? What are you talking about, man? That's by far individually superior generation we ever had. Stop undervaluing it, that's the best 4 players punch we ever had and probably will ever have.

You're so ridiculously got in love with the idea that it was a walk in the park and now basketball is some glorious idol that it's even funny It's still the same ball game, there studs and there's scrub and things are basically the same, just players have better shoes and drinking less, that's all. Human genes didn't change you know

You're just don't realize how good Kurtinaitis was and Chomicius in his prime. It's the guy who has been dropping 15ppg in 1986 WC. That's Soviet NT. He played for Real for a reason you know. He was great in Zalgiris as veteran taking down Stombergas, Ilgauskas Atletas in LKL finals and so on. You just stuck, bruh.

We don't have high scoring guys now because we don't have high scoring guys now. IDK what you don't get it now. Lumberjacks do not score in FIBA, it's not only JV, all them can't score. When we'll have elite guard or wing, they will drop +20, no problem.

Karnisovas scoring wise was better than Siskauskas, there's no question about it. Kurtinaitis was superb scorer as well. IDK where you getting the contradiction from.

[Hepcat]

second of all, modern players are all WAY more professional towards their approach to the game as compared to their lazy cigar smoking peers of the 90's (do I need to show those clips of Jordan smoking cigars and gambling non-stop after winning NBA titles?) Probably not, as all of the older NBA fans remember those days and the laid-back attitude of all players. No need to remind how our own Sabonis torn his achilles either, being a party animal himself and not finding the stairs when being intoxidated. Those were the days of amateur basketball and there's no need to paint different nostalgic picture now

There's no question that professional athletes these days are far more professional about keeping themselves in peak physical condition than they were in previous decades. The trend toward much increased fitness levels was already in full swing by the 1990's though. Fifty years ago most athletes still smoked and actually avoided gym work for fear of becoming "muscle bound".

That plus the complete lack of depth of the 1992 team is why I think present day Team Lietuvas could beat the 1992 version:

https://www.interbasket.net/forums/s...m-Lietuva-2012!

[Straight forward]

It's enough to watch one Karnisovas' game highlights to understand that ATM we don't have anyone close in terms of pure scoring talent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5elRf5IG4M

[madmax]

Karnisovas was a one trick pony as well, not really a great player as you are painting him out to be
He's pretty much in the same class as Kleiza, who also could only score and do nothing else on the court really - he's nowhere near the level of guys like JV, Sabonis and his son, Marciulionis and I would even put Siskauskas, Jasikevicius and Macijauskas as definitely better all around players than him. Anyone who was old enough to watch him live would agree with me

[Straight forward]

As always delighted and honored to hear your expertise, madmax.

[Mindozas]

Karnisovas was a one trick pony as well, not really a great player as you are painting him out to be
He's pretty much in the same class as Kleiza, who also could only score and do nothing else on the court really - he's nowhere near the level of guys like JV, Sabonis and his son, Marciulionis and I would even put Siskauskas, Jasikevicius and Macijauskas as definitely better all around players than him. Anyone who was old enough to watch him live would agree with me

"Could only score"... Jeez, man, it's like we are talking about some freaking Gecevicius, who exactly could only score. But maybe there're different levels of scorers too? Macas also could mostly just score, but the way he did that was masterpiece on Euro scene, the same was Karnisovas. He could score in any way possible -drive, mid range jumper, fade away, three, draw fouls and etc. It all looked so elegant and easy for him, not cause of his physical skills only, but simple bball IQ too. He was a true leader, go-to guy. You could build all offensive game around him as he wasn't too selfish either, had good court vision, read the game, could pass the ball well. Some Kleiza could only envy his bball IQ. Exactly Kleiza was that pure scorer. Talking about versatility, Karnis could play PF and did that in NT quite frequently. Of course he is known for his offense the most, but thnx to long arms, the same IQ, he could steal the ball well and was far from useless defender.
No doubt great talent, one of the biggest in NT history. Sad that injuries ruined his career way too early. The same it did for mentioned Macas and Kleiza. None reached even 30yo during their last summer with NT

[Straight forward]

madmax just wanted to say that one sentence, that's all. That's all he ever says here - "he's nowhere near the level of guys like JV (...)" Till JV playing, no other guy from past, current or future stands a chance. Case closed.

Spot on points, Mindozas. When it comes to all time Lith players, to me Arvydas and Rooney stand in different category, IMO, no-one yet reached that level. After these GOATs and Hall of Famers, I think Karnisovas is the most complete player we ever had. Kleiza didn't have Arturas' IQ, passing ability, and was worse defensively (more athletic and better rebounder though, but that don't surpass Karsis' advantages, IMO). Macijauskas was worse defensively and his scoring profile was still a lot based on shooting while Karnisovas was doing absolutely everything, it's hard to even pick out his go to move, as he was doing everything at high level and at almost equal quantity: shooting, driving, mid-rage game; also I argue that Arturas was a bit better passer than Macijauskas. Siskauskas was super universal, but wasn't as explosive offensively, wasn't so terrific shooter and scorer as Karnisovas. Again, in 90's we had without a question best 3-4 players punch ever and honestly I don't think we'll ever have better. We might have much better teams in the future (maybe even had in 2003-2004), I have little doubt, but I doubt we'll have better bunch of supreme individuals. The bar at his point is at incredible height.

[LuDux]

Yesterday Rimantas Kaukenas was on radio telling about inspiration behind his charitable foundation https://kaukenoparama.lt/en/

https://www.lrt.lt/mediateka/irasas/2000154263/gyvenimo-citrinos-rimanto-kaukeno-istorija-kaip-nepaluzti-kai-onkologine-liga-serga-artimas-ir-mylimas-zmogus

[Straight forward]

Reinaldas Seibutis retires. Huge respect for his guy. Definitely one of the top 5 figures of 10's Lithuanian basketball (along with Kalnietis, Valanciunas, Kleiza, Maciulis). Great fighter and great personality. Hope he would become a good a coach.

[Straight forward]

Kalnietis and Jasikevicius will stay nr 1 and nr 2 in assists for very long time. Find another pg that will play with ltu jersey till 35 age and 30min a game in most tournaments thats hard to see anytime soon to have such skills and such dedication come every summer for like 15 years.

They will stay on that list like Stockton and Kidd stays in nba all time assist list.

I disagree. I believe Jokubaitis has perfect chance to become No.1 after his career. I assume all official NT games are counted (even of only main tournaments as Eurobasket, WC, Jokubaitis still will have perfect chances) and if so he already has like 18 assists in his bag. Off course, FIBA system is different now and Eurobasket are rarer, but there's more qualification games where maybe Jokubaitis will appear here and there. Never the less, have in mind that Kalnietis made debut in as 20, but then he got a serious role only as 24yo. Jokubaitis started at 20 also, but since now there's no doubt he'll be in the NT every summer (if healthy) and will play important role. Saras started only as 22yo. IMO, Jokubaitis has good chances to be even No.1 maybe, specially that assists are counted a little bit more liberal now than in Saras' days. Anyway, that's only stats, but Jokubaitis has all and more to be better than Kalnietis and he may be in the territory of Saras talent.

[Straight forward]

Marciulionis balling in NBA play offs. When NBA still was real contact league. Imagine such elite slasher, arguably toughest guard ever, in today's NBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xtzd2gj2RA

[Shawshank]

LTU NT by positions over years that made the diffrence and had starters role for multiple years:


PG Marciulionis--> Jasikevicius --> Kalnietis --> Jokubaitis

SG Kurtinaitis --> Macijauskas--> Kaukenas --> Seibutis --> Grigonis

SF Karnisovas --> Stombergas --> Siskauskas --> Maciulis--> ???

PF Einikis --> Songaila/K.Lavrinovic --> Kleiza --> Jankunas --> D.Sabonis

C A.Sabonis --> Einikis/Zukauskas --> R.Javtokas --> J.Valanciunas



i think thats the best of the best lithuanians players who ever weared ltu jersey.

This names takes all first top 20 places in scored pts in NT history 1992-2021.

Only Jokubaitis,Grigonis and D.Sabonis is not there yet but its just question of time.

[Straight forward]

PG Marciulionis--> Jasikevicius --> Kalnietis

SG Kurtinaitis --> Macijauskas--> Kaukenas --> Seibutis

SF Karnisovas --> Stombergas --> Siskauskas --> Maciulis

PF Einikis --> Songaila/K.Lavrinovic --> Kleiza --> Jankunas

It's unbelievable how badly Lithuanian basketball declined after 90's and 00's.

I'm almost certain that we will never again have stronger 4 stars punch in Sabonis, Marciulionis, Karnisovas, Kurtinaitis and it will be extremely difficult to ever field more capable line-up than Jasikevicius, Macijauskas, Siskauskas, Songaila, Javtokas

[Shawshank]

its more unbelievable how badly our 2020s NT underperform with obviuos more tallent compared to 2010s.

2020s NT is not about lack of tallent is about lack of character and toughness. Those internet grown kids are very soft in all areas on basketball court compared even to 2010s generation.

Its getting to a point in our NT is not about just basketbal skillset,but do our internet kids have men balls and can use some dirty shit from time to time to flip the game when it goes badly ? Or they gonna stand still like good kids and let opponents do what ever they like ?

I miss Maciulis,Kleiza,Jankunas elbows and other dirty shit they were doing to win at any cost.

Watched how our 2020s softies is pushed around was painfull experience last 5 years.

When i heard Maciulis and Kleiza how they talk about todays kids that you cant say a harsh word or they wont talk to you for a week thats weak ass attitude goes directly to basketball couart.


Put today 2010 peak years NT and 2020s peak years players i have no doubt that 2010 outhustles,outpush and outmen with bigger balls more basketball tallent 2020s NT like they did multiple times in playoofs to other better teams 2010s.


2020s NT too kind players need general type like Kazlauskas or Jasikevicius that will demand f***ing make it a street fight for every centimeter near the basket.

When Sharas was demanding luptis in zalgiris there were results. It possible to make fight even those internet boys,but we need a coach to force them do that or no wins in playoofs.

We need fighters with men balls more and less a lovers ale Kuzminskas,Lekavicius,Bendzius,Masiulis,Giedraitis ,Sirvydis,Kulbokas types to win playoofs games.

From younger generation Sedekerskis,Velicka,Jokubaitis,Brazdeikis,Blazevic looks more to fighter type.

When NT will need put more fresh blood im eyeing that group first,but not those softies shooters.