All time NT

[LuDux]

Some random stat: Kalnietis now leads NT in minutes played
Kalnietis 1972
Saras 1945
Maciulis 1640
Stombergas 1532
Karnisovas 1507

Kleiza 1459
Siskauskas 1423
Jasaitis 1354
Einikis 1298
Valanciunas 1270

[Straight forward]

Here's another exercise. Which position is all time deepest and witch shallowest (well, we know that one, lol)? Since 1992.


PG: Jasikevicius, Kalnietis, Maskoliunas, Lekavicius (Ginevicius, Pacesas, Gustas)

SG: Marciulionis, Macijauskas, Kurtinaitis, Kaukenas, Seibutis, Grigonis (should I mention Lukminas, Vaisvila, Adomaitis, Slanina, Lukauskis, Jsukevicius, Delininkaitis? Nah, all below Seibutis and Grigonis. Oh, and Pocius)

SF: Karnisovas, Siskauskas, Stombergas, Maciulis, Kuzminskas, Timinskas, M.Zukauskas, S.Jasaitis (Sorry Salenga, R.Giedratis and Butkevicius)

PF: D. Sabonis, Kleiza, Songaila, K.Lavrinovic, Jankunas, T. Masiulis (Domas here to avoid JV vs Domas controversy, also Praskevicius)

C: A. Sabonis, Valanciunas, Ilgauskas, Einikis, Javtokas, D. Lavrinovic, E.Zukauskas, Gudaitis (Petravicius, Motiejunas)



SF position is (crazy) deepest along with C, PG is shallowest.

What did i miss?

PS: I missed Kaukenas, T. Masiulis, D. Lavrinovic, Pocius, got them only with additional research in my mind.

[Mindozas]

Obviously PG was the most problematic, we had only Saras, Kalnietis and then Chomicius in 1992, in 1995 he already wasn't that vital. Maybe we could add Marciulionis to some extent as PG too. All other were just position fillers. Not that they were bad or smth, but previously mentioned trio are just standouts out of crew

The least problems probably were with C, or maybe SF, but going down to even deeper history, I'd pick C, cause in 1937 and 1939 we had amazing Cs in Talzunas (1937) and Lubinas (1939)

[Straight forward]

yeah, I decided to exclude Chomicius basically because it's not fair to him, just as with Jovaisa and some others. Even in 1992, the last relevant tournament with NT basically, he wasn't much with 6.6pts and 2.2 assists. He was a great player, so I sort of leave him to 80's and not even include him here.

And Paulauskas was sort of SF, so SF and C positions are by far the best historically.

[Straight forward]

I realised I missed Ulanovas at SF.

[Mindozas]

yeah, I decided to exclude Chomicius basically because it's not fair to him, just as with Jovaisa and some others. Even in 1992, the last relevant tournament with NT basically, he wasn't much with 6.6pts and 2.2 assists. He was a great player, so I sort of leave him to 80's and not even include him here.

Hold on, hold on here don't put Chomicius and Jovaisa into the same sentence regarding 1992. Jovaisa, true, was there more out of respect and his huge input in Zalgiris and Lith bball all through the years. But Chomicius was far from done. He was non factor in 1995, but in 1992 he had very important role and was among key players in NT. Putting his stats as some criteria, thats what is really not fair to him Scoring was not his primary task there, we had 4 great scorers in that team, but nonetheless Chomicius contributed when it mattered the most - vs Australia, vs Brazil, vs CIS. I mean not just offense, but defense too, he was just great at it in most occasions

[Straight forward]

Hold on, hold on here don't put Chomicius and Jovaisa into the same sentence regarding 1992. Jovaisa, true, was there more out of respect and his huge input in Zalgiris and Lith bball all through the years. But Chomicius was far from done. He was non factor in 1995, but in 1992 he had very important role and was among key players in NT. Putting his stats as some criteria, thats what is really not fair to him Scoring was not his primary task there, we had 4 great scorers in that team, but nonetheless Chomicius contributed when it mattered the most - vs Australia, vs Brazil, vs CIS. I mean not just offense, but defense too, he was just great at it in most occasions

Indeed, going to deeper into it, I even remember now that he was still tough nose guard. So maybe he deserves to be included even more than some Maskoliunas or Lekavicius. My point however was that both already contributed very little (specially Jovaisa, just symbolically as you say) so it's not even fair to judge them in the perspective of 90's, it should be 80's. But, yeah, why not to include legendary Valdemaras Chomicius!

[madmax]

The only thing I remember from the early and mid 90's Fiba basketball was a walking pace at which all teams played and the scores like 50-48 being a common occurence back then. And yeah, our NT with broken down Sabonis and Marciulionis were no exception - both of them basically scored all of the points and the others just hit an occasional three pointer if opportunity presented itself. That was not a pretty basketball to watch to say the least

[Mindozas]

Indeed, going to deeper into it, I even remember now that he was still tough nose guard. So maybe he deserves to be included even more than some Maskoliunas or Lekavicius. My point however was that both already contributed very little (specially Jovaisa, just symbolically as you say) so it's not even fair to judge them in the perspective of 90's, it should be 80's. But, yeah, why not to include legendary Valdemaras Chomicius!

Sure, Chomicius peak was 80s, but if to talk about some list since 1992, then he must be included even if was for one tournament, his contribution was big

The only thing I remember from the early and mid 90's Fiba basketball was a walking pace at which all teams played and the scores like 50-48 being a common occurence back then. And yeah, our NT with broken down Sabonis and Marciulionis were no exception - both of them basically scored all of the points and the others just hit an occasional three pointer if opportunity presented itself. That was not a pretty basketball to watch to say the least

You are right about a thing that lot of NTs were guided by megastars and deep bench was barely used, but that slow bball was more common to clubs. NTs bball was different, more lively, faster, higher scoring. Our NT, let's say in the same 1992 was surely far from slow paced team, we used to score a lot, against the same Brazil in quarterfinal we scored 114, against CIS is that very tough bronze medal game over 80. In 1995 picture was the same. It was decent bball to watch. Only in 1996 it changed, Sabas looked slower, Kurtinaitis got older, Karnisovas was slowed down by ankle injury in that classic opener vs Croatia, and most importantly Marciulionis was plagued by knee injuries big time before the Olympics, he was urged not to play at all in Atlanta'96, as a result he was a shadow of himself and finally we simply got no one to run the game, then yeah, our pace dropped down and it was not much of joy to watch our team playing, maybe with exception of that 1/4 vs Greece, that was great game, good that at least we grabbed bronze at the end

[Straight forward]

Good point, mindozas. Those games were not as boring as it may seem, Marciulionis could push it in the open court like none guard can these days in our, or even others elite NTs. The same Sabonis was very quick decision maker, he wasn't bruising all night long, few quick moves, boom boom that's it. The ball moved perfectly, they knew how to improvise in half court offence. The difference was that in some possessions they simply walked if decided so, they had thirty seconds so who cares, let's save some energy. The game between Serbia and Lithuania in 1995 was pretty slow, huge bodies, Sabonis, Divac, Rebraca. But look at these hightlights 1992 LT vs CRO, the game was dynamic and nice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8P_J9yQAJA

PS: One thing that is needed to say, these days defence is so much more organised and superior in terms of scouting, tactics so on. Back in the day we played zone with Sabonis standing in the paint, that's all, pretty much all time. Even in 00's we didn't play all that much D with Sireika We were outscoring opponents. The game was surely much more nicer than we saw in 10's.

[madmax]

it's ok SF, you can say it out loud - the game was amateurish back then, especially defensively. FIBA was still very far removed from american and NBA level back then and that's why every single game against NBA professionals ended in a 50 point embarrassing blowout...

[Straight forward]

it's ok SF, you can say it out loud - the game was amateurish back then, especially defensively. FIBA was still very far removed from american and NBA level back then and that's why every single game against NBA professionals ended in a 50 point embarrassing blowout...

Not amateurish, but surely not as developed at some points, like defence. But it's hard to say it was amateurish when Marciulionis, Sabonis, karnisovas, Kurtinaitis running around, and these days Lekavicius is basically our top scorer. I mean offensive talent back then compared to what we have now was magical, nothing less than that.

[Shawshank]

1995 team have fantastic top 3 in Sabonis,Marciulionis,Karnisovas best big 3 in world not including USA no doubt in my mind at that time.It obviuos better than todays our big 3 Valanciunas,Sabonis,Grigonis.Also 95 big trio was perfect match playing together,when todays big 3 is not perfect.

But when we talk about other players 4-12th its not even close.Todays our other 9 players would beat by 20 those other 9players from 95 team.

Kurtinaitis was 35 and 36 in 95 and 96 as sniper(perfect match to big 3 btw) he still looked good offensively (ofcourse it helped that game was slower),but defensively was just bad.Similiar to Milaknis as 34 today he still looks good even as euroleague player because he shoots very well ,but on other side total hole.For pure treepoint shooters age gets up slower.Chomicius at 36 was shadow of himself in 95.No wonder didnt even made team one year later over Vaisvila.Einikis and Stombergas was just making first stronger steps in those years.

That 90s big 3 would be awesome in any decade,but their supporting cast was poland level at best solid.Our todays others 4-12th players would easily beat Poland and did that.

Ofcourse saying that Slovenia prove is enough to win it all with 3 big dogs and bunch of supporting cast even today.You dont need to have 6-7 world class level.Its enough to have 3-4 world class players and others who sacrifise and will do all dirty work and you have a chance.But those 1-2 leaders must be game changers,not just very good players.

[Straight forward]

It's really shaky comparison. Einikis, Kurtinaitis, Stombergas, Lukminas are worse than Maciulis, Lekavicius, Kalnietis, Ulanovas? I would have doubts, dude. Than Kuzminskas (completely out of shape), Seibutis, Butkevicius are better than Chomicius, Krapikas, Markevicius? A bit better I guess, but nothing to brag about. You are again missing the point that there was no scrubs in 90's as you wrongly imagine. The floor was elite LKL players, just as it is today. And, IMO, in 1995 NT overdid with grandpa's, Visockas shouldn have been a cut already. Timinskas could play more. You overlook how talented Timinskas was, and he didn't receive more playing time because a star Karnisovas played in his position, and also Stombergas, Krapikas, Kurtinaitis could play there. Timinskas, even tough young, was not some one trick pony as R.Giedraitis or Butkevicius. Dude, this narrative how every one was a scrub aside three stars is way out of hand.

[Mindozas]

That big three was that good that it simply made others look that they were somekind of amateurs, which they weren't. That trio was scoring and had all eyes on them, others took what's left and that wasn't much, more like hard work, some random shots, some defense. Maybe it's not fair to some Kurtinaitis, to put him into this wagon, but in 1995 he had not the best tournament. Then, let's say some Einikis was already really good in 1995, not just a beginner like in 1992. But what can you expect playing beside Sabas and being in his shadow? Not much. He was peaking, he had lot of offers from abroad, bad that he had poor attitude and wrong priorities, but that's another story. Lukminas was decent shooter, scorer, good passer when needed, but again, what you can show when you are getting 2-3 shots per game? I'm not saying it was wrong tactics or so, but that's how it was. I remember him in 1997 EB qualies, which started in the same 1995, where he was constantly scoring 20ppg or so. Bad that he moved to Avtodor later, with Einikis, it didn't help much in any way. Overall, his case in NT always reminded me a bit of such Slanina story, 20ppg player in Spanish ACB, who was deep bench player in 2003-2004 NT with amazing backcourt. Talking about talent alone, both would be in current NT, such shooters/scorers are badly missed. Then Stombergas. He was just rising to his fame, but he was already good. His bball IQ, physical presence allowed him to contribute at that level. If I'm not wrong he started his NT career already in 1993, bein' 19yo. I remember him from LKL games vs Zalgiris in mid 90s, he was awesome in many ways, especially those finals when he took Atletas to 2-0 lead and got injured early in 3rd game, which lead to Zalgiris winning series 3-2. He already was like higher IQ, bigger guts version of nowadays Kuzminskas. In current bball world he would be stolen by some foreign big club right away and never play for Zalgiris again, or next step would be NBA. But all these foreigner limits in all the leagues, big talent pool still holding on in Europe, limited scouting helped us to keep him longer. Except that funny trip to China he had, to make some money. Overall, all of them could play in current NT judging on talent alone. Others a bit hard to say. Timinskas was good as newbie from NCAA, talented guy, but still a bit raw. Visockas was not old, 30 or so, but I have very few memories about him, don't know why. He looked really good in early 90s, was among leaders in Zalgiris when key players left, but then declined so fast, don't remember was it injury or smth.