All time greatest Lithuanian player?

[Straight forward]

I believe it's a controversy between Marčiulionis and Sabonis. I don't really like the dendency (will it be denied or approved here?) to rank Sabonis as a sure case all time greatest Lithuanian player. I think there should be a discussion.

We have to agree that titles should not be the only judge here while it would be an easy win by Sabonis. I think we know the reasons why Sabonis has so many European basketball related awards and Marčiulionis has not. Simply one was playing in Europe, other in NBA. Let's look at international carreer than:

- Marčiulionis is a bigger scorer (19,7 ppg) than Sabonis (18, 9 ppg) in the Lithuanian NT.
- Marčiulionis lead Soviet Union to the gold as a star in 1988 Olympics and not Sabonis. NBA commentators talked about Marčiulionis as "a baller" who is ready to play NBA and not Sabonis in this tournament (underating Sabonis, but it's not the point). Marčiulionis was averaging 18 ppg, while Sabonis 13 ppg.
- Marčiulionis was MVP of Eurobasket 1995 and Sabonis never was (?). That was second best record of Eurobasket's history of Lithuanian NT.

NBA career:

- 18,9 ppg as best season in NBA for Marčiulionis. 16 ppg for Sabonis.
- He was the runner-up for the NBA’s Sixth Man of the Year Award for the 1991-92 season in which he averaged 18.9 points and 3.4 assists while shooting 53.8 percent from the field.
- Sabonis was closer to win in all in NBA (championship), but Marčiulionis had 2 great NBA seasons with Worriors being an elite guard in NBA.

So as I see things, Marčiulionis while being at his peak was a superior player than Sabonis. One would say Sabonis had bigger impact with his all round game, but I saw Marčiulionis as a guy to go in 1988 and basically in all other tournaments with Lithianian NT till 1996 where Marčiulionis' career started to fall. The guy could take the ball in his hands and to get to the basket any time he wanted, he spread the defence when the team struggled, he was a motor rather than Sabonis.

Marčiulionis had more impressive individual NBA carreer even though people speculate that Sabonis could be better if ended up in NBA sooner (international carreer doesn't show that though). I think it's more about Sabonis' injuries controversy.

So I have an impression that Sabonis had longer career which was filled with different titles and awards while Marčiulionis had shorter, but more explosive carreer. In other words, Sabonis accomplished so much more, but if we would talk only about peaking Marčiulionis and Sabonis - I would go with Marčiulionis.

Yet, Sabonis is a hall of famer while Marčiulions barely will be. So, I have a feeling Marčiulionis is a little bit underrated and around Sabonis was build a lot of misticism and legends (speculation about how fantastic pre-injury Sabonis would be in NBA). Sure thing Sabonis deserves that, but it might be a little exaggeration. What if Sabonis wouldn't be better without these injuries? Maybe he wouldn't have these skills he had while being one step slower. I mean, Sabonis always had this "if" when we talk about his greatness and that "if" comes as a credit to his career, I'm not in love with that. It's the same as to judge Valančiūnas as the next Robert Parish/Hakeem Olajuwon while watching his performance like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCMXxQGhGzQ) and than when he'll fail to reach this to argement "there was reasons why he couldn't become so big while potential obviously was here".

For me there's no obvious answer, but I have a sure feeling, despite Sabonis being a phenominal player, Marčiulionis was the guy when both were young and 100% healthy.

[auris1]

Why?
What controversy?

Greatness doesn't come with numbers.
Greatness has more to do with impact for future generations and personality .Like in being an idol and role model.
Sabas is a living legend as well.
In and out of the court.
That's completely separate category for me.
I do get where are you coming from,but your arguments just doesn't cut for me.

[Straight forward]

Why?
What controversy?

Greatness doesn't come with numbers.
Greatness has more to do with impact for future generations and personality .Like in being an idol and role model.
Sabas is a living legend as well.
In and out of the court.
That's completely separate category for me.
I do get where are you coming from,but your arguments just doesn't cut for me.

Your language is just great, auris! Impact for future genrations and personality? How would you judge about it? Oh, maybe you meant literal impact - like Sabonis sons. Well, yeah, one of them seems like becoming a player Personality? Well, both of them are not sugar I would say Well, Marčiulionis is educated, that's probably the main difference.

However, I was refering to their actual game and the simple thing that Marčiulionis' greatness in the court is being overlooked when we talk about best Lithuanian player.

[auris1]

Your language is just great, auris! Impact for future genrations and personality? How would you judge about it? Oh, maybe you meant literal impact - like Sabonis sons. Well, yeah, one of them seems like becoming a player Personality? Well, both of them are not sugar I would say Well, Marčiulionis is educated, that's probably the main difference.

However, I was refering to their actual game and the simple thing that Marčiulionis' greatness in the court is being overlooked when we talk about best Lithuanian player.

Oh,don't you start with me ,my friend,nit picking my post.
You damn well know that I am drinking beers right now )
But I do admit,that maybe my answer wasn't that fluid and straight forward as I wished.
Let's talk about impact.
Kids play basketball because they want to become as Sabonis in Lithuania.
They play basketball because of Sabonis.
At least it used to be when I was young.
Every one wanted to have number 11 on their tshirts because of Sabonis .

How about if I use the word legacy instead?

You are fighting a loosing battle here,no matter how many times you Say earth is flat
And I even do not get your reasons of why would you go and write such a long post with so little arguments on your side.Your facts were very selective too,just to prove the point you were making.

[Hepcat]

I voted for Marčiulionis just to even things up a bit. Also to encourage him to sire more future PGs for Team Lietuva.

[Shawshank]

Marciulionis is my favourite player of all time.But to compare him with Sabonis is very dificult,Arvydas was 2m20 who could do everything.In the last 50 years in europe i didnt see player better than sabonis.If i have to start my team today and i would let choose any player i would choose 20 years old Sabonis as my franchise player for 15 years in future....He would make big impact just standing in middle.
Marciulionis in 1988-1993 (before injuries) was something to watch,till now i didnt see guard who has strenght as power forward and speed like pointguard.And Sarunas had that srenght and speed 20 years ago ! Sarunas was one the first white men who were competing against afroamericans in strenght and speed game in nba.In early 90s Petrovic were doing it with shooting,marciulionis were doing it in american way against afroamericans !

ON the other hand tell me better tandem in european history than Sabonis+Marciulionis in 1992-1996 ? For me it was best one two punch in eurobasket.

[Hepcat]

Marciulionis in 1988-1993 (before injuries) was something to watch,till now i didnt see guard who has strenght as power forward and speed like pointguard. And Sarunas had that srenght and speed 20 years ago ! Sarunas was one the first white men who were competing against afroamericans in strenght and speed game in nba.

Coach Nelson said that Marčiulionis was a monster in the gym and that you couldn't keep him away from the weights.

[Straight forward]

I see foreign posters (in this board) not even thinking to give up with Sabonis' uniqueness. Fair enough!

Marčiulionis on the other hand was innovator in NBA as well. He brought Euro step to the NBA.

Take a look at this video to have an image how explosive he was in his best years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSxhGLpoZVo

[macleopard13]

Marciulionis was our Derrick Rose. His drives were deadly. There's a video of some Afroamerican just pounding the floor in frustration after he got called for a foul against Marchelo (in a 2+1 situation).

Sabas was one of the most well-rounded centers ever. He owned David Robinson in the 80s, and always gave a good fight to the dominating Shaq in the 90s when he was already past his prime.

Still, I think Sabas wins. He averaged 19.0 PPG, 11.4 RPG and 2.2 APG for Lithuania. Marciulionis averaged 19.0 PPG, 4.1 RPG and 6.4 APG for Lithuania. I think Sabas' well-roundedness is what tips my decision in favor of Sabas. I mean, the guy could play any position if he wanted.

[Khalid80]

I'm sure I don't know about Sabonis and Marčiulionis as you guys do but imo what was so special about Sabonis is that it was very rare to see a 7'3 (221 cm) center being so agile on court and managing to dish out crazy assists that showed how amazing his court vision was... He was an accurate shooter and could score from 3 point range... He had amazing ball handling skills, and great footwork as well.
And this is why we viewed him as such an amazing player as what he did at his height was indeed phenomenal...

[Illegal2k10]

I'm sure I don't know about Sabonis and Marčiulionis as you guys do but imo what was so special about Sabonis is that it was very rare to see a 7'3 (221 cm) center being so agile on court and managing to dish out crazy assists that showed how amazing his court vision was... He was an accurate shooter and could score from 3 point range... He had amazing ball handling skills, and great footwork as well.
And this is why we viewed him as such an amazing player as what he did at his height was indeed phenomenal...

to add he had amazing arsenal of post up moves and was god like shot blocker before the injuries.

[auris1]

As another argument for Sabonis I can mention his longevity.
He became World champion at the grand age of 17 (Columbia if I recall correctly ).
He finished his playing days at even grander age of 39 by becoming MVP in Euroleague.

[cwilson13]

I liked both players very much. Marčiulionis was in his prime (although injured a lot) in the NBA while Sabonis was not anywhere near his prime with Portland. The NBA numbers aren't really the best way to compare the two players. In my opinion, Sabonis would have averaged about 22-24 points and 12-13 rebounds per game if he would have played in the NBA during the 1980s. I say Marčiulionis/Sabonis primes in the NBA would be similar to Ginobili/Duncan primes in the NBA. Two different players but both very important to their teams. I believe Marčiulionis and Sabonis were better than Ginobili/Duncan, just comparing them as teammates.


Marčiulionis was incredible in 1988, but Sabonis was coming off a serious injury and wasn't even expected to play at all.

"- Marčiulionis was MVP of Eurobasket 1995 and Sabonis never was (?)."
Sabonis was MVP of Eurobasket 85.

So maybe Marčiulionis was the best player of the two actually playing for the Lithuanian National Team 1992-, but my vote is for Sabonis as the greatest Lithuanian player of all time.

[Test]

After reading the name of this thread, first thing comes to mind - Sabonis. And the second thing - Who else could it be? Seriously I think this is easiest poll.