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  • Ignore Maccabi what other teams and players may have interesting seasons.

    The PL was a curiosity because you had four other teams Galil, Hapoel, Ironi and Bnei that weren't only competative but actually beaten Maccabi. There were several young players that had strong performances last year that are more experienced along with several interesting rookies. What teams and players do you think have potential.
    Alrighty then! Take care now, bye bye then.

  • #2
    You've got to read the news more properly. Ironi Nahariya has never beaten MTA this season. Maccabi had two one-point losses more or less at the buzzer on the road, which is actually not that bad, since Maccabi didn't go without losses throughout a season even with Parker, Saras, Solomon etc. on their roster, having lost heavily to Hapoel Jerusalem and Hapoel Tel-Aviv, for example. It also lost one game in the Cup.

    The PL is degressing from year to year, after having had its best season in 2003-2004, when MTA won the Euroleague, Hapoel Jerusalem won the ULEB Cup, HTA finished third in Fiba Euroleague, which was a strong league by then with several really good teams. If it wouldn't be for a total blackout in the second half of the semifinal, HTA would have had a good chance to take the cup. Also, Ironi Nahariya has ended its season of step before the Final Four. Israel has had four good representatives in Europe since then and a strong, a legendary MTA team used to be beaten by their opponents in the league in a great fashion.
    Right now, other teams were able to compete with MTA sometimes, because of a complete roster overhaul of MTA, which played without a real PG. Only Jerusalem has retained its strength of the previous years and might have gotten even stronger since then, albeit it didn't win the ULEB Cup this season. Otherwise, the league is not getting better. There are not more Israelis than before in key or important roles in their teams, although good Israeli players are now getting more playing time in better teams. Never before has Maccabi Tel-Aviv yielded as many Israelis on court and not on roster since European teams have started to sign more than two foreigners. Although we can see some solid young players, the league is still being dominated by foreign players, mostly Americans. The National Team can't get their act together and loses to clearly worse teams. Israeli players, who used to play quite good three-four years ago, have regressed in their game. Sasson used to be better but he lacks work ethic and can't succeed in big teams. Green cannot develop his offensive game and come off the bench. Yet I believe, he can still be a solid, productive player in lesser teams, while taking a starting role. He simply can't come off the bench. Halperin has had more chances this season than throughout his whole career in Israel but had just 3-4 really good games, Euroleague and Premier League combined. The rest was crap. To have minimal ratings in 25 minutes on court without losing the ball too much, while playing the point and thus dominating the ball, is just a sign of lack of effort. You always have somethign to do. But Halperin is just too timid. Yet, he could surely succeed in any other team not named Maccabi, a team, where his mistakes would not be judged so harshly by fans. I think, he could be quite a useful player in any mid-level Euroleague team. But not Maccabi.
    MTA is supposed to have theb est Israeli players on their roster that's why all the talking about them. Some other Israeli players, like Tapiro, Hagag, Markovitz, Kozikaro, Limonad, Ohayon, Casspi etc. have been solid or even becam better (the youngero nes) but they are still no top players. Eliyahu gained important experience but didn't improve much. He still has no mid-range shot we could talk about, he still doesn't dribble the ball well enough to cope with a bad shot while still being a good one-on-one player (like Chris Williams, formerly Frankfurt Skyliners). He also have to gain strength. Otherwise, he is young, big, athletic and can play aggressive at times, if he puts his head into it. As to the foreign born Israeli players, Derrick Sharp has played probably his best season in the Euroleague, being a key factor so many times. He plays a less important role in the PL, since sabres come to more playing time there. Jaime Arnold has been solid, although his midrange shot seems to have disappeared. He is on the downhill of his career, after having played better previously. We can only say, he became a better defender and could get big-time rebounds, if needed.

    Sorry, for trying to answer your anticipated remark to that. You won't find a single person, neither here nor in other Israeli basketball communities, who would tell you sth. else. We are all rooting for Israeli teams and players to succeed, but we also have to keep fan-glasses off our eyes and see the situation realistically.
    burnstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by goga78
      You've got to read the news more properly. Ironi Nahariya has never beaten MTA this season. Maccabi had two one-point losses more or less at the buzzer on the road, which is actually not that bad, since Maccabi didn't go without losses throughout a season even with Parker, Saras, Solomon etc. on their roster, having lost heavily to Hapoel Jerusalem and Hapoel Tel-Aviv, for example. It also lost one game in the Cup.

      The PL is degressing from year to year, after having had its best season in 2003-2004, when MTA won the Euroleague, Hapoel Jerusalem won the ULEB Cup, HTA finished third in Fiba Euroleague, which was a strong league by then with several really good teams. If it wouldn't be for a total blackout in the second half of the semifinal, HTA would have had a good chance to take the cup. Also, Ironi Nahariya has ended its season of step before the Final Four. Israel has had four good representatives in Europe since then and a strong, a legendary MTA team used to be beaten by their opponents in the league in a great fashion.
      Right now, other teams were able to compete with MTA sometimes, because of a complete roster overhaul of MTA, which played without a real PG. Only Jerusalem has retained its strength of the previous years and might have gotten even stronger since then, albeit it didn't win the ULEB Cup this season. Otherwise, the league is not getting better. There are not more Israelis than before in key or important roles in their teams, although good Israeli players are now getting more playing time in better teams. Never before has Maccabi Tel-Aviv yielded as many Israelis on court and not on roster since European teams have started to sign more than two foreigners. Although we can see some solid young players, the league is still being dominated by foreign players, mostly Americans. The National Team can't get their act together and loses to clearly worse teams. Israeli players, who used to play quite good three-four years ago, have regressed in their game. Sasson used to be better but he lacks work ethic and can't succeed in big teams. Green cannot develop his offensive game and come off the bench. Yet I believe, he can still be a solid, productive player in lesser teams, while taking a starting role. He simply can't come off the bench. Halperin has had more chances this season than throughout his whole career in Israel but had just 3-4 really good games, Euroleague and Premier League combined. The rest was crap. To have minimal ratings in 25 minutes on court without losing the ball too much, while playing the point and thus dominating the ball, is just a sign of lack of effort. You always have somethign to do. But Halperin is just too timid. Yet, he could surely succeed in any other team not named Maccabi, a team, where his mistakes would not be judged so harshly by fans. I think, he could be quite a useful player in any mid-level Euroleague team. But not Maccabi.
      MTA is supposed to have theb est Israeli players on their roster that's why all the talking about them. Some other Israeli players, like Tapiro, Hagag, Markovitz, Kozikaro, Limonad, Ohayon, Casspi etc. have been solid or even becam better (the youngero nes) but they are still no top players. Eliyahu gained important experience but didn't improve much. He still has no mid-range shot we could talk about, he still doesn't dribble the ball well enough to cope with a bad shot while still being a good one-on-one player (like Chris Williams, formerly Frankfurt Skyliners). He also have to gain strength. Otherwise, he is young, big, athletic and can play aggressive at times, if he puts his head into it. As to the foreign born Israeli players, Derrick Sharp has played probably his best season in the Euroleague, being a key factor so many times. He plays a less important role in the PL, since sabres come to more playing time there. Jaime Arnold has been solid, although his midrange shot seems to have disappeared. He is on the downhill of his career, after having played better previously. We can only say, he became a better defender and could get big-time rebounds, if needed.

      Sorry, for trying to answer your anticipated remark to that. You won't find a single person, neither here nor in other Israeli basketball communities, who would tell you sth. else. We are all rooting for Israeli teams and players to succeed, but we also have to keep fan-glasses off our eyes and see the situation realistically.
      Ironi beat Maccabi the second game of the cup and the U20 team dominated the competition in Douai. Halperin is still a 6-4 point guard with ability and Lior Eliyahu can still leap out of the gym. Stick to soccer and the Bundesliga.

      Last edited by Calvin; 06-16-2007, 11:34 AM.
      Alrighty then! Take care now, bye bye then.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Calvin
        Ironi beat Maccabi the second game of the cup and the U20 team dominated the competition in Douai. Halperin is still a 6-4 point guard with ability and Lior Eliyahu can still leap out of the gym. Stick to soccer and the Bundesliga.

        Ironi beat MTA in a game, where it had to overcome a total 18-point deficite in just 10 minutes of the fourth quarter. I missed that loss, of course, but it didn't mean anything, since MTA has almost surely qualified for the next round after a combined 70 minutes of play. No pun to Nahariya, though. They won, so they deserved to win.

        It's interesting, how you point towards where I have to stick. Why don't you stick somewhere else or just leave this forum, ha? The fact that soccer is the most popular sport throughout the world and, of course, in Germany, doesn't make me a soccer expert automatically or an ignorant towards basketball.

        The Israeli team, which was older than the rest of the squads, won the tournament in Douai. It was a tournament, consisting of just six teams. While the win is certainly nice, it doesn't mean anything, talking of major wins in international competition. I hope, however, that Israel will be able to do some major noise at the upcoming Junior EBC.
        Besides, Israel has won two silver medals and missed the final by a single shot in the recent three Junior EBCs. But who is interested in these successes, when they don't pan out as successes at major leagues? These Israeli youngsters go out there and can't win anything at men's level. Seems like the losers of yesterday - the other teams - catch up and move ahead of their Israeli peers in a very short period of time.
        As you know, professional basketball doesn't consist of U-20 players only and somehow other nations are always able to yield more talent and production out of their basketball schools. ISrael is not to blame for it, being a small country with its citizens being interested in non-athletic-careers, but still, a fact is a fact.

        Halperin has talent and size, he just doesn't translate it into on-court success. Eliyahu is not that good an leaper as you are trying to suggest here, although he's above average in Israel (high reach due to long arms, not due to superb leaping ability). And this dunk of Halperin is veery nice. A pro player in his early twenties, who would not be able to dunk on a one-on-none fastbreak of a 30-point win, would be considered non-athletic at all. Surprise, surprise, but I have seen Halperin do a two-handed reverse dunk while warming up before the 2004 Euroleague final. A professional is never being judged by his sheer dunking ability, much less, if it is a PG and not a wing player. So, who cares?! Man, any half-way decent athlete starting with 180 cm and up should be able to dunk. Otherwise, he is not athletic enough. Please, excuse my unhumble statement here, but I'm speaking of personal non-professional experience, being on the better side of athletic equation
        burnstein

        Comment


        • #5
          Funny YouTube piece - actually voice is more interesting than video - commentators saying how bad Green (center of NT) is...
          And all this discussion is pointless :
          1. Because there are no teams who can compete to Maccabi in PL ,unfortunately...(Especially if Bluth doesn't leave to NBA and Gaidamak will not help J-m...) Maccabi will be better team this year for sure
          2. We having it in millionth time - saying that Pl is getting worse, that it is dominated by low level american players (who, despite someone's baseless conviction, are not struggling... ), not israelis ; that Halperin is talented but has no balls to talk about, that Eliyahu is athletic and talented too but has no defense and not middle-long range shot, that our youth NTs are good, but players because of lack of work and attitude disappear afterwards, etc. etc. etc.
          Oh I forgot Caspi, who might be good enough to heat some bench in NBA....
          Yalla Maccabi!!!

          Save English, ban macabeo....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Calvin
            Ironi beat Maccabi the second game of the cup and the U20 team dominated the competition in Douai. Halperin is still a 6-4 point guard with ability and Lior Eliyahu can still leap out of the gym. Stick to soccer and the Bundesliga.
            LOL, that's your response?

            Israel usually does good in youth tournaments but the players seem to regress as they get older (mayble military duty and/or bad coaching). While Halperin does have potential he is NOT living up to it and disapears in games (lack of confidence). Eliyahu (along with Casspi) is a better prospect IMHO, but as Goga stated he still has were to do to improve.

            BTW, so what if Eliyahu can jump out the gym (which in the NBA he would be maybe slightly-above-average athlete), what does that have to do with basketball skills. He's a good finisher, but still has to work on his...well what everyone else seems to repeatidly tell you.

            Now stick to baseball and the MLB.

            Comment


            • #7
              BTW, does anyone know what's up with Gaidamak, is he going to buy or fund another team (an maybe put half as much effort in it as he does Beitar in football)?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Czarkazem13
                BTW, does anyone know what's up with Gaidamak, is he going to buy or fund another team (an maybe put half as much effort in it as he does Beitar in football)?
                IMHO he'll continue to support Beitar and Hapoel at least till the elections of Jerusalem's mayor (more than one year from now).
                MACCABI TEL AVIV
                Belgrade 1977 Strasbourg 1981 Paris 2001 Tel Aviv 2004 Moscow 2005

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm excluding Arik but you guy crack me up. You're posting the it's irrelevent the the U20 team dominated the U19 teams. I got news for you there are players on the french team that are lying about their age. It happens all the time look at the South Korean little league world series baseball team. You criticize Caspi's and Eliyahu's defense as not being nba ready. The nba doesn't even play defense in the regular season. Hell, the so called rookie-of-the-year Brandon Roy is ten times worse the defender of either Caspi, Halperin or Eliyahu. Roy's a fraud the real rookie-of-the-year was Andrea Bargnani the league wanted to give the award to an american.
                  Alrighty then! Take care now, bye bye then.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Calvin
                    I'm excluding Arik but you guy crack me up. You're posting the it's irrelevent the the U20 team dominated the U19 teams. I got news for you there are players on the french team that are lying about their age. It happens all the time look at the South Korean little league world series baseball team. You criticize Caspi's and Eliyahu's defense as not being nba ready. The nba doesn't even play defense in the regular season. Hell, the so called rookie-of-the-year Brandon Roy is ten times worse the defender of either Caspi, Halperin or Eliyahu. Roy's a fraud the real rookie-of-the-year was Andrea Bargnani the league wanted to give the award to an american.
                    As always... look at Roy's stats and at Bargnani's stats. Bargnani was just a complementary player for Toronto, whereas Roy was a leading player for the Blazers. Of course, someone, who averages 11 ppg, 4 rpg with bad shooting percentage as a seven-footer is worth to be named ROY over an even better shooting baccourt player, who has shown complete game with 17/4/4. The league wants to keep the league American and doesn't hand out MVPs to foreign-born players on the regular basis. Now, if there are some coaches, who prefer American players to international ones, the lion share of league officials, journalists etc. don't follow this mattern.
                    Caspi's defense is non-existant, Eliyahu's not strong enough to play defense at "4", Halperin is way too slow to catch up even with quicker Euroleague guards. While it's true, that there is a lot of disorganised play withing the lower-part NBA teams, these players are still better one on one defenders than their European counterparts, since they are mostly quicker, stronger and more athletic.

                    For the last time, the win at Douai is nice but doesn't bring you any medal. Neither at men's sport nor at junior championships. I genuinely hope, Israel is going to the podium at the next JEBC, but right now we don't know. And why should French players lie about their age? Where is your proof? Why not German, Lithuanian, US or Australian players? Why not Israeli players?

                    You remind me of that sort of guys, who used to be claiming that Craig Ehlo was a better team player than Jordan and a more complete player than Jordan. You simply fell in love with a specific player or players of a specific natgionality and you are blind to any fact of life. If you haven't noticed before, no one has ever agreed with you on player evaluation. No one. Zero. Zilch. No basketball fan from any country in the world. Isn't it strange? Nono of them does know the level of play in the PL, none of them has ever been to a pro basketball game in their country or abroad?

                    Your only success here is that some people keep on responding to your postings instead of simply banning you or neglecting your throw-ins. I guess, it would help, since you wouldn't want to lead soliloquies. But in your case, one never knows...
                    burnstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by goga78
                      As always... look at Roy's stats and at Bargnani's stats. Bargnani was just a complementary player for Toronto, whereas Roy was a leading player for the Blazers. Of course, someone, who averages 11 ppg, 4 rpg with bad shooting percentage as a seven-footer is worth to be named ROY over an even better shooting baccourt player, who has shown complete game with 17/4/4. The league wants to keep the league American and doesn't hand out MVPs to foreign-born players on the regular basis. Now, if there are some coaches, who prefer American players to international ones, the lion share of league officials, journalists etc. don't follow this mattern.
                      Caspi's defense is non-existant, Eliyahu's not strong enough to play defense at "4", Halperin is way too slow to catch up even with quicker Euroleague guards. While it's true, that there is a lot of disorganised play withing the lower-part NBA teams, these players are still better one on one defenders than their European counterparts, since they are mostly quicker, stronger and more athletic.

                      For the last time, the win at Douai is nice but doesn't bring you any medal. Neither at men's sport nor at junior championships. I genuinely hope, Israel is going to the podium at the next JEBC, but right now we don't know. And why should French players lie about their age? Where is your proof? Why not German, Lithuanian, US or Australian players? Why not Israeli players?

                      You remind me of that sort of guys, who used to be claiming that Craig Ehlo was a better team player than Jordan and a more complete player than Jordan. You simply fell in love with a specific player or players of a specific natgionality and you are blind to any fact of life. If you haven't noticed before, no one has ever agreed with you on player evaluation. No one. Zero. Zilch. No basketball fan from any country in the world. Isn't it strange? Nono of them does know the level of play in the PL, none of them has ever been to a pro basketball game in their country or abroad?

                      Your only success here is that some people keep on responding to your postings instead of simply banning you or neglecting your throw-ins. I guess, it would help, since you wouldn't want to lead soliloquies. But in your case, one never knows...
                      This forum was about other teams in the PL. If you want to censor someone who posts the reality that there is discrimination against israeli players in the nba or the israeli players have improved and are improving email Stuart.
                      Alrighty then! Take care now, bye bye then.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Calvin
                        This forum was about other teams in the PL. If you want to censor someone who posts the reality that there is discrimination against israeli players in the nba or the israeli players have improved and are improving email Stuart.
                        It's not about censoring oponions, it's just about not letting through spam. Discrimination against Israli players could happen, if there would be any Israeli playersin the league. Since no Israeli players are even being considered, they are not good enough at NBA-tailored game. It does not make them bad players, they simply don't fit NBA style in order to crack the rotation and play an important role. Israeli players aren't particularly tall, fast or athletic, while playing with heart, if needed. But that alone isn't enough for the NBA. It's still too early for Eliyahu, Halperin and Casspi. Other players wouldn't play any important roles. Of course, Green could be like the 12th player of his team, but he isn't tall enough to play 5 and not fast enough to play 4.

                        As to non-MTA Israeli teams, there is not much to say. Jerusalem has had a good season, but it will be tough for them to keep up with this year's space. Other teams don't have any money and won't be good anytime soon. Of course, they can be decent in the PL but not outside of it. Not, because the're Israeli, Calvin, but because they lack money.
                        burnstein

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by goga78
                          It's not about censoring oponions, it's just about not letting through spam. Discrimination against Israli players could happen, if there would be any Israeli playersin the league. Since no Israeli players are even being considered, they are not good enough at NBA-tailored game. It does not make them bad players, they simply don't fit NBA style in order to crack the rotation and play an important role. Israeli players aren't particularly tall, fast or athletic, while playing with heart, if needed. But that alone isn't enough for the NBA. It's still too early for Eliyahu, Halperin and Casspi. Other players wouldn't play any important roles. Of course, Green could be like the 12th player of his team, but he isn't tall enough to play 5 and not fast enough to play 4.

                          As to non-MTA Israeli teams, there is not much to say. Jerusalem has had a good season, but it will be tough for them to keep up with this year's space. Other teams don't have any money and won't be good anytime soon. Of course, they can be decent in the PL but not outside of it. Not, because the're Israeli, Calvin, but because they lack money.
                          I can't take you seriously when you imply the nba is more physical than the PL or israelies aren't tall, fast or athletic.
                          Alrighty then! Take care now, bye bye then.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Lee Nailon has left Bnei but bnei signed two new American players that I never heard off. I think Bnei may be headed to relegation.
                            Alrighty then! Take care now, bye bye then.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Calvin
                              I can't take you seriously when you imply the nba is more physical than the PL or israelies aren't tall, fast or athletic.
                              Sure. That's why you can find lots of 6'10'' Israelis and why US players succeed in the PL (as well as in other leagues around the world) because of their superb bball IQ and not because of speed, strenght and athleticism.
                              You're a joke.
                              burnstein

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