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Maccabi Elektra Tel-Aviv - next season (10/11)

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  • Originally posted by Czarkazem13 View Post
    I see nothing has changed since I got back from vacation...
    That's your advantage on me this year Where have you been?

    @ maccabeo: Jasaitis has no ambitions to be the alpha dog like Walsh has and he play defense. Plus, he knows about winning traditions and how to be a role player. The other two guys never made it in the upper echelones of European basketball.

    So, which teams make Maccabi look mediocre? How do you define mediocrity and superiority? If other centers are quicker than Sofo, why can't he have an advantage in power? Besides, this season we have seen a Sofo with quick lateral movement. Just take a look at the last game vs. Zalgiris. And finally, when will come a time, when you say sth. positive about this team? Not that they surpise you, not that they are mediocre, not that they'll be shown their real worth in the next phase of competition but that they are good, that they are playing better and better, that their defense is superior, given all the physical shortcomings they have (no size, no big rotation), that they surprisingly are one of the best scoring and most effective teams in the league? This team surely isn't invincible and could use some upgrades but not every wish can be granted immediately and you fail to understand this.

    Just a theory as we have a long way to go: should MTA take the EL crown this year, you will either disappear again or write, how surprised you are because this team is so mediocre and there are many other teams that are better. You will not look back on their record and say: "Wow! They have marched through the season, getting better and better and finally got the job done, somewhat surprisingly, considering the early season estimations". You will say what you always say because you have no clue about team building and budget restrictions. What makes so many other EL teams so better than MTA? Well-known names on their rosters? Deepness? We see Barca mightily struggling without Navarro and now without Mickeal. We see Real being superbly inconsistent. CSKA and CLA are both on the verge of missing the Top 16. Olympiacos has shown vulnerability, while PAO barely won vs. an injury depleted CSKA. Olimpija is surprising everybody for sure but they hava a tough schedule for the rest of competition. Just Siena and FenerUlker look really good to me. The rest of the teams have problems. 24 teams in the EL. Mediocrity would place about 10 teams ahead of MTA. Just interesting, why none of them has shown better basketball than MTA since week two. Remember, every of those teams have a couple of super weak teams in their group, while MTA's group is very balanced.
    burnstein

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Czarkazem13 View Post
      I see nothing has changed since I got back from vacation...
      where did u spent your vacation?
      i envy u for this! a lot!
      well i could nt say nothing has changed
      comparing with the beginning of the season we can say blatt showed again what a great coach is.
      as u know i think he is guilty because didnt ask for a better roster,but the fact he is a great coach is something clear.
      so mta actually has something didnt have last years: has fire in eyes and that is great the roster is the same as the beginning so nothing as changed in my opinion about a roster that is mediocre. our group is weaker than we all tougth and didnt say much more about mta but the fire in our eyes and our great defensive organization
      i deeply hope that mangment, watching at the baltt's job , start thinking of a quarter final buying a couple of players: one shooter, one center. without them, top 16 is our best gol to get

      Comment


      • Originally posted by maccabeo View Post
        where did u spent your vacation?
        i envy u for this! a lot!
        well i could nt say nothing has changed
        comparing with the beginning of the season we can say blatt showed again what a great coach is.
        as u know i think he is guilty because didnt ask for a better roster,but the fact he is a great coach is something clear.
        so mta actually has something didnt have last years: has fire in eyes and that is great the roster is the same as the beginning so nothing as changed in my opinion about a roster that is mediocre. our group is weaker than we all tougth and didnt say much more about mta but the fire in our eyes and our great defensive organization
        i deeply hope that mangment, watching at the baltt's job , start thinking of a quarter final buying a couple of players: one shooter, one center. without them, top 16 is our best gol to get
        Czarkazem13 will excuse me for responding instead of him. He meant that your attitude hasn't changed not that Maccabi is playing different basketball.

        Yes:

        Blatt is a great coach.
        The defensive organisation is top.
        Guys play with fire in their eyes, which is a beauty to watch. Even more: they play for one another. No egoistic basketball.
        Some positions could be strengthened, first and foremost backup center with offensive potential.

        No:

        Blatt could not have asked for a better roster. Maccabi has a budget and is operating with this budget. My guess is, Blatt had a word in the selection of players apart from those the management wanted to keep (Eidson) or whose contracts are still valid (Green).
        Guys like Hendrix and Pargo came in, when other options proved to be too expensive (Macvan, Raduljica, Jasikevicius). Hendrix was signed as a PF and was forced to play as a C. Not his guilt, not Maccabi's guilt that it was able to sign Eliyahu later on.

        Group A is the most balanced in the whole competition. It has no top names of recent years, apart from MTA and CLA but so do other groups. PAO & CSKA. Siena & FCB. Olympiacos & Real. Other than other groups, Group A has no weak teams such as Cibona and LR and to some extent Valencia, Bamberg, Charleroi, Cholet, Roma and CSKA. You could put Prokom and Partizan in that second category however. Rytas, Cibona and Cholet happen to play in one group with Barca, Fener and Siena, so you can be sure of their numbers of victories to be inflated.

        It's pretty poor of you not to recognize this team as a good one. You won't find any single person on this whole platform who would say that Maccabi is mediocre. Everybody considers MTA in the current shape to be one of the best teams in the competition, probably the best one. While I'm cautious of proclaiming it to be the best, it is surely one of the best. You claim that with the current roster, "the best goal to get is Top 16". Do you actually know that MTA is already in the Top 16 and it isnt a goal anymore? Moreover, MTA will qualify from the first place and probably be the best team after the regular season.

        Just because you don't know the names or game of Maccabi players, it doesn't make them bad. Just because you are prejuiced against a lot of MTA players, it doesn't make them bad either. You call it mediocre but it doesn't play like a mediocre team. It is one of a few teams in the whole EL with an identity, being able to force its game upon its opponent. As I already said, no one has a crystal ball and knows how far this team will go. Bu there is no reason to talk it bad like you do. BTW, I'm still waiting for that list of at least 10 EL teams that are supposedly making MTA be mediocre. Given that MTA has beaten out the crap of every opponent in the group after the first game, that would make other groups to have up to three teams on average to be better than MTA. Or does mediocre for you start after the three richest teams in the competition whose coaches can really demand a whole roster of certain players?
        burnstein

        Comment


        • Originally posted by goga78 View Post
          Czarkazem13 will excuse me for responding instead of him. He meant that your attitude hasn't changed not that Maccabi is playing different basketball.

          Yes:

          Blatt is a great coach.
          The defensive organisation is top.
          Guys play with fire in their eyes, which is a beauty to watch. Even more: they play for one another. No egoistic basketball.
          Some positions could be strengthened, first and foremost backup center with offensive potential.

          No:

          Blatt could not have asked for a better roster. Maccabi has a budget and is operating with this budget. My guess is, Blatt had a word in the selection of players apart from those the management wanted to keep (Eidson) or whose contracts are still valid (Green).
          Guys like Hendrix and Pargo came in, when other options proved to be too expensive (Macvan, Raduljica, Jasikevicius). Hendrix was signed as a PF and was forced to play as a C. Not his guilt, not Maccabi's guilt that it was able to sign Eliyahu later on.

          Group A is the most balanced in the whole competition. It has no top names of recent years, apart from MTA and CLA but so do other groups. PAO & CSKA. Siena & FCB. Olympiacos & Real. Other than other groups, Group A has no weak teams such as Cibona and LR and to some extent Valencia, Bamberg, Charleroi, Cholet, Roma and CSKA. You could put Prokom and Partizan in that second category however. Rytas, Cibona and Cholet happen to play in one group with Barca, Fener and Siena, so you can be sure of their numbers of victories to be inflated.

          It's pretty poor of you not to recognize this team as a good one. You won't find any single person on this whole platform who would say that Maccabi is mediocre. Everybody considers MTA in the current shape to be one of the best teams in the competition, probably the best one. While I'm cautious of proclaiming it to be the best, it is surely one of the best. You claim that with the current roster, "the best goal to get is Top 16". Do you actually know that MTA is already in the Top 16 and it isnt a goal anymore? Moreover, MTA will qualify from the first place and probably be the best team after the regular season.

          Just because you don't know the names or game of Maccabi players, it doesn't make them bad. Just because you are prejuiced against a lot of MTA players, it doesn't make them bad either. You call it mediocre but it doesn't play like a mediocre team. It is one of a few teams in the whole EL with an identity, being able to force its game upon its opponent. As I already said, no one has a crystal ball and knows how far this team will go. Bu there is no reason to talk it bad like you do. BTW, I'm still waiting for that list of at least 10 EL teams that are supposedly making MTA be mediocre. Given that MTA has beaten out the crap of every opponent in the group after the first game, that would make other groups to have up to three teams on average to be better than MTA. Or does mediocre for you start after the three richest teams in the competition whose coaches can really demand a whole roster of certain players?
          goga , i m saying since weeks that there's something new in mta soul because of blatt job, and that is something allow us to dominate a group that i tought was stronger ,but i m surprised by the fact u don't see how other gruops are so stringer. in our group there s no team who can even dreaming to go to f4. every other gruop has at least two teams builted to go to f4. when we ll play vs barca real pana fener oly siena , we ll see. i don't think it will be enough our fighters soul. in that match it would be important having stronger players

          Comment


          • Originally posted by maccabeo View Post
            goga , i m saying since weeks that there's something new in mta soul because of blatt job, and that is something allow us to dominate a group that i tought was stronger ,but i m surprised by the fact u don't see how other gruops are so stringer. in our group there s no team who can even dreaming to go to f4. every other gruop has at least two teams builted to go to f4. when we ll play vs barca real pana fener oly siena , we ll see. i don't think it will be enough our fighters soul. in that match it would be important having stronger players
            Stronger players? Rather, additional players. Maccabi won't get anybody better then Perkins, Pargo, Eidson, Eliyahu and Sofo for sure. An additional player wouldn't hurt and possibly Macvan will be the one.
            I don't see the other groups being stronger. Too many weak teams there. Group A is very balanced and its teams are strong enough. ACB league leader, Russian League leader, VTB leader. I don't see, how Barca is stronger than CLA, especially in Barca's current shape. Fener has lost at Cholet and has barely won in Vilnius. The last four games of theirs, except vs. Cibona, have been shaky. One narrow win and two losses against teams Fener should have beaten. Siena is in a good shape but got four easy wins due to very weak opponents. Real is very shaky and is certainly no Final 4 material. Their coach can't reach his players and doesn't use them to their best.

            Maccabi can beat any of those teams. Might struggle due to lack of size against some but overall it is good enough to sustain. After all, Zalgiris, CLA, Prokom, Khimki and Partizan have size advantage under the basket, too. Maccabi has beatean all of them anyway. Maccabi has the best defense and the most universal players in its lineup.

            It's obvious that you go more by names than by actual play that is why you think MTA is mediocre. Judging from their play, they are not.
            burnstein

            Comment


            • Originally posted by goga78 View Post
              Stronger players? Rather, additional players. Maccabi won't get anybody better then Perkins, Pargo, Eidson, Eliyahu and Sofo for sure. An additional player wouldn't hurt and possibly Macvan will be the one.
              I don't see the other groups being stronger. Too many weak teams there. Group A is very balanced and its teams are strong enough. ACB league leader, Russian League leader, VTB leader. I don't see, how Barca is stronger than CLA, especially in Barca's current shape. Fener has lost at Cholet and has barely won in Vilnius. The last four games of theirs, except vs. Cibona, have been shaky. One narrow win and two losses against teams Fener should have beaten. Siena is in a good shape but got four easy wins due to very weak opponents. Real is very shaky and is certainly no Final 4 material. Their coach can't reach his players and doesn't use them to their best.

              Maccabi can beat any of those teams. Might struggle due to lack of size against some but overall it is good enough to sustain. After all, Zalgiris, CLA, Prokom, Khimki and Partizan have size advantage under the basket, too. Maccabi has beatean all of them anyway. Maccabi has the best defense and the most universal players in its lineup.

              It's obvious that you go more by names than by actual play that is why you think MTA is mediocre. Judging from their play, they are not.
              if i just wonder big names, i talked about teodosic or ukic or ,or,or...u know i never talked about name like them. i just think that between teodoic and green there are many players could be right to grew up our value. when u talk of siena ,real, fener , it seems really u don t wanna see at the roster. soon or late ,they have to shine their roster's pontential. i strongly consider sofo a mediocre center, green a player cant play at this level.ely a discontinuos talent, tal an ex player, blu just a shooter, pnini a normal player. we just have two champs eidson and perkins . u cant get f4 with just two like them even if u have blatt

              Comment


              • Originally posted by maccabeo View Post
                i strongly consider sofo a mediocre center, green a player cant play at this level.ely a discontinuous talent, tal an ex player, blu just a shooter, pnini a normal player. we just have two champs eidson and perkins . u cant get f4 with just two like them even if u have blatt

                If Sofo is mediocre , who is good , Karl Malone ?

                Comment


                • Goga,
                  I really should join CZ13 (I took some time off from forum too, BTW) complimenting your patience
                  As for Maccabi, I don't think they are mediocre team, they are TEAM, which is much better than sum of its players, playing killer defense, very good transition game, solid standing game.
                  Blatt is very good coach, which made this team work, though I do hate his brought-from-the-home substitutions and that he's missing some good roster combinations. For instance - Hendrix was very good together with Green in league, and should have been playing with him a lot lot more as PF; Pnini should play more than Burstein. And why in hell, team with 3pt shooters like Blu and Pnini, does not run combinations for them??? another roster remark: Sharp and Burstein are obsolete (Derrik should be in coaching staff, Burstein is not good enough, sorry - he is smart, but his ball handling is not good enough, his 3pt shooting is down the sink, he doesn't move his legs fast enough in defense (see 4th quarter against Partizan).

                  Overall - Macabi is very good team, but it bores me... It reminds me (statistically at least) Rudi D'Amico's team which won everything, but was very boring... Can't say it doesn't have 5-15 minutes in every game of exciting plays, but again - look at 4th quarter of game against Partizan it was f...g insulting (as whole game against Bnei Hasharon).

                  As for roster policy - I still think that management (namely Federman, with "Israeli flavor" bullshit (this year)) is ruining good team for several years in the row, with endless butt-licking of leftie press, endless coach substitutions (seven coaches in 5 years...), endless direction search...
                  Sorry this is way I feel
                  Yalla Maccabi!!!

                  Save English, ban macabeo....

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MikeMaccabiFan View Post
                    Goga,
                    I really should join CZ13 (I took some time off from forum too, BTW) complimenting your patience
                    As for Maccabi, I don't think they are mediocre team, they are TEAM, which is much better than sum of its players, playing killer defense, very good transition game, solid standing game.
                    Blatt is very good coach, which made this team work, though I do hate his brought-from-the-home substitutions and that he's missing some good roster combinations. For instance - Hendrix was very good together with Green in league, and should have been playing with him a lot lot more as PF; Pnini should play more than Burstein. And why in hell, team with 3pt shooters like Blu and Pnini, does not run combinations for them??? another roster remark: Sharp and Burstein are obsolete (Derrik should be in coaching staff, Burstein is not good enough, sorry - he is smart, but his ball handling is not good enough, his 3pt shooting is down the sink, he doesn't move his legs fast enough in defense (see 4th quarter against Partizan).

                    Overall - Macabi is very good team, but it bores me... It reminds me (statistically at least) Rudi D'Amico's team which won everything, but was very boring... Can't say it doesn't have 5-15 minutes in every game of exciting plays, but again - look at 4th quarter of game against Partizan it was f...g insulting (as whole game against Bnei Hasharon).

                    As for roster policy - I still think that management (namely Federman, with "Israeli flavor" bullshit (this year)) is ruining good team for several years in the row, with endless butt-licking of leftie press, endless coach substitutions (seven coaches in 5 years...), endless direction search...
                    Sorry this is way I feel
                    That's what I say. There is no play for Blu running off the screen. Just the pick'n pop, where he is always about a meter behind the 3PT line and thus is missing his shot, even if he is free. He is not close enough to the basket and he doesn't take his time to concentrate. Pnini on the other hand is not a pure shooter, although he can shoot. He just has to wait for the ball to be kicked out during penetrations. Burstein is playing more because he is a ball handler. Pnini has no left hand and he is always bad defending smaller wing players.

                    It wouldn't hurt, if Blatt would let Henrix play a bit of PF, instead of bringing in Blu, who can't hit the ocean at the moment. On the other hand, it will make the game more stagnant but I think the experiment would be worth it.

                    I think that the "experiments" by the owners have ended now, when they got Blatt to build sth. lasting here.

                    But below the line, it's obvious. Like with Russian NT, Blatt manages to get the best out of his players and they play as a team being more successful that way than other teams with bigger names, like Efes or even Siena. Maccabi will always be able to defend players like Lavrinovic (either of the twins) successfully. Also, don't look at the fourth quarter. MTA players have totally lost their concentration in the last five minutes as the game was over. The game was never as close as it was at the end (16-point differential). I find this team quite exciting, as I like killer defense and team play on offense. They are also scoring a lot, so they don't grind out games. Of course, you can'T have such brilliant team play like in the middle of this decade but no team plays such bball at the moment. No high-flying alley-oops on the regular basis, no in-your-face dunks, no bigger sprays of three-pointers. But fire in the eyes of MTA's players and intensity of play make their game so exciting to watch imho.

                    @ Maccabeo: Do Teodosic and Green play the same position? Basketball is a team game and it is being defined by the ability of the whole team to perform. If Green has a role for ten minutes and plays it successfully, he is more useful than a "Teodosic", who is playing a lot of minutes and brings his stats on the table, while not helping the team much. Also, what's the point of talking about players who cost a fortune and are under contract anyway?
                    burnstein

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by goga78 View Post

                      @ Maccabeo: Do Teodosic and Green play the same position? Basketball is a team game and it is being defined by the ability of the whole team to perform. If Green has a role for ten minutes and plays it successfully, he is more useful than a "Teodosic", who is playing a lot of minutes and brings his stats on the table, while not helping the team much. Also, what's the point of talking about players who cost a fortune and are under contract anyway?
                      goga, my god, noe i should start thinking u are stupid. i didnt talk about teo and gren as two same players!! i juste take teo as an example of champion, and green as a mediocre player!! come on, be at least honest
                      about your last lines, i think is better for u nobody will read what u wrote. is better ,believe me

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by maccabeo View Post
                        goga, my god, noe i should start thinking u are stupid. i didnt talk about teo and gren as two same players!! i juste take teo as an example of champion, and green as a mediocre player!! come on, be at least honest
                        about your last lines, i think is better for u nobody will read what u wrote. is better ,believe me
                        Green is a role player, while Teodosic is a leader. He is not a champion however as he has not won anything on senior level yet.
                        A team cannot consist of expensive superstars only. Not the one in Tel-Aviv. The current group gets it done better than any group with bigger names so far. You fail to acknowledge and respect that.
                        burnstein

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by goga78 View Post
                          Green is a role player, while Teodosic is a leader. He is not a champion however as he has not won anything on senior level yet.
                          A team cannot consist of expensive superstars only. Not the one in Tel-Aviv. The current group gets it done better than any group with bigger names so far. You fail to acknowledge and respect that.
                          regular season is something different than top 16 ,altought obviously nobody can say mta is nothing. yes,this group is perfectly mixed up by blatt, but the coach can't do miracles. mta do go to quarter final , need two more players: not expensive star, not medicore pleayers, but simply goodf players

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by goga78 View Post
                            That's your advantage on me this year Where have you been?
                            Originally posted by maccabeo View Post
                            where did u spent your vacation?
                            i envy u for this! a lot!
                            Don't envy me too much, it's not like I did anything that great - it was just nice being away from my job for almost two weeks. I just drove through Florida - lot's of bar hopping.


                            Originally posted by goga78 View Post
                            well i could nt say nothing has changed
                            comparing with the beginning of the season we can say blatt showed again what a great coach is.
                            as u know i think he is guilty because didnt ask for a better roster,but the fact he is a great coach is something clear.
                            Actually, I don't hate the roster. Didn't know much about Hendrix and wasn't totally sold on Sofo, but I like Perkins, Eidson (he's grown on me) and I liked the signing of Pargo (which I seemed to be in the minority on). I obviously like Burstein better then you and felt there was no shot at Halperin so I don't hold that against Blatt. I only wish they were able to get Scheyer, but Blatt had done a good job.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by maccabeo View Post
                              regular season is something different than top 16 ,altought obviously nobody can say mta is nothing. yes,this group is perfectly mixed up by blatt, but the coach can't do miracles. mta do go to quarter final , need two more players: not expensive star, not medicore pleayers, but simply goodf players
                              In what way is the Top 16 different? Will MTA face three serious opponents or what? Did it have just crap teams in its group?
                              A miracle concerning the pre-season expectations would be going to the Final 4. Top 16 is a must and already accomplished. Playoffs is the next goal.
                              MTA is looking for another big man. Mcvan is in talks? Who do you, maccabeo, know, who could help MTA under the basket? Who should be that second player? Remember, this team play from defense, so there is no place for guys like Penney.
                              burnstein

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MikeMaccabiFan View Post
                                ...
                                Blatt is very good coach, which made this team work, though I do hate his brought-from-the-home substitutions and that he's missing some good roster combinations.
                                Well , the positive side of brought-from-the-home substitutions is healthy hierarchy. Everybody is aware of his role : no tensions within the team , better chemistry.

                                For instance - Hendrix was very good together with Green in league, and should have been playing with him a lot lot more as PF
                                The way I understand Blatt's intentions, the team has Eliyahu, Bluth, Pnini for PF spot, so if Hendrix can't contribute playing C , there is no need in him. It's rather sad, cause Hendrix seems to be good personality and all ...

                                Pnini should play more than Burstein. And why in hell, team with 3pt shooters like Blu and Pnini, does not run combinations for them???
                                Both Blu and Pnini has enough "chutzpah" to shoot 3-4 3pts per game without any combination , just when they got open look. Running some plays for them would increase their 3pts shots attempts to 7-8 and I don't think it's a good idea for the team to depend so much on their shooting .

                                another roster remark: Sharp and Burstein are obsolete (Derrik should be in coaching staff, Burstein is not good enough, sorry - he is smart, but his ball handling is not good enough, his 3pt shooting is down the sink, he doesn't move his legs fast enough in defense (see 4th quarter against Partizan).
                                Agree on that, MTA needs to sign another guard . Burstein can be OK back-up for Eidson.


                                Overall - Macabi is very good team, but it bores me... It reminds me (statistically at least) Rudi D'Amico's team which won everything, but was very boring... Can't say it doesn't have 5-15 minutes in every game of exciting plays, but again - look at 4th quarter of game against Partizan it was f...g insulting (as whole game against Bnei Hasharon).
                                Khimki-MTA & Zalgiris-MTA was anything but boring , but I have to admit I've fallen asleep yesterday while watching second half of MTA- Maccabi Haifa. I guess it's a price to pay for having very good team

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