Yogev Ohayon

[Czarkazem13]

I always liked and rooted for Ohayon. Of course his play is inconsistent and he hasn't really seemed to improve that much over the years (as something unfortunately to many young Israeli prospects tend to....).

There is still time and he has had some solid - even great - games this season, but it isn't to late for him yet.

Black Planet:

I'm not sure what it is with Bluthenthal, maybe he thinks he still has a shot with the U.S. team.

[ArnoldPettybone]

but you know,Serbians,Croatians and others have the same problem many years now

What are you talking about? what "problems"? with their record of players in the NBA,
Europe at foreign teams, national teams and success of local teams in European competitions over the years?? Give me their "problems" by all means. With our relative wealth and that talent we would easily be a powerhouse the likes of your country.

.Israely players were always known for great fighting spirit so I don't think you should accuse them for not working hard

And why are the two connected in any way? a team from some bullshit league could have great fighting spirit. That alone doesn't make it a much better team that it is, or have anything to do with the players work ethic

btw I have no clue why he never played for NT,what's wrong?

He just doesn't want to.

[Billy Bounce]

You're too harsh on Ohayon, guys

He's probably the contender for "The Most Improved Player" this season . I remember him having a problem just to cut aggressively to the basket : he was afraid to be fouled with 50% FT ( a disaster for a guard )

Now check his stats:

1) FT: 58% -> 68%
2) 3pts: 28% -> 40%
3) Assists/TOs: 3.9/2.3 -> 3.1/1.6

Take in mind that 2-3 Yogev's assists per game are wasted by Kukia & Pinkney : as u can see in ip84 video, sometimes these guys have a problem of making an easy lay-up

On the account of Ohayon tribute to NT , do we have a lot of creative PGs who can play defense ? Somehow Israeli guards are either scorers ( Halperin, Naimi, Roth, Mekel) or defensive stoppers ( Katz , Brener) , but not both

[ip84]

Forgot to put here the second summery:

[the_black_planet]

My friend ArnoldPettybone,sorry for the too late answer.Israeli's basketball is a really hard riddle for every basketball fan.You are one of the countries with great basketball trandition and I also guess(I'm not sure) that you are one of the very few countries where basketball is more popular than football(along with Lithuania).But unfortunately you have a really huge obstacle,the lack of talented big bodies.That's the main problem why you are not a powerhouse NT-wise(because club-wise I really don't think that Greek A1 is at the moment much stronger than Israeli league,only we have 2 Euroleague contenders and you have one).I can't guess an explanation about that,maybe you don't spend enough money in academies,I don't know.On the other hand in Israel always shows up some super talent.It was Odded Katash in the late 90's and now Caspi.Let me tell you that we Greeks had no talent like Kattash back then.He was probably the most gifted guard of his generation,a real joy to watch,the new Sasha Djorjevic.But unfortunately right after winning the EL and been voted MVP of the final-4,his career ended violently.If Odded was more lucky,probably the history of Israeli basketball would be much,much different...Also another 2 of your strongest players last decade had a bunch of injury problems,Sheffer and later Burnstein.I really hope Caspi would be more lucky than them,you should really look after him like "the iris of your eye" as we use to say in Greece.Apart from that the only thing your federation has to do is to take a big body and invest money to practice him and make something good of him

[ArnoldPettybone]

My friend ArnoldPettybone,sorry for the too late answer.Israeli's basketball is a really hard riddle for every basketball fan.You are one of the countries with great basketball trandition and I also guess(I'm not sure) that you are one of the very few countries where basketball is more popular than football(along with Lithuania).But unfortunately you have a really huge obstacle,the lack of talented big bodies.That's the main problem why you are not a powerhouse NT-wise

You are a hundred percent right on the last sentence, imo that exactly our main problem-all together with the fact that we have so few players in general, maybe the fewest of all countries with similar population and bball status. This cuased a somewhat chain reaction that destroys the entire construct of the national team over the years, with point guards guarding other guards and forwards, guards taking on forwards and forwards manhandled by inside players a head taller. They do that since they are youngest, from the youngest national teams possible, and it doesn't change when they grow older-they are playing bigger then their height, as the term suggest and it shows. A lot of fighting and team spirit, zero skills and potential for the next level
To think that Greece can manage without players the likes of koufos ( even semi retired Tsakalidis..), while he would be a starter for our national team for his entire career..not that mention other talents that didn't end up for their expectations (Diamantopoulos ,Glyniadakis,Pelekanos, Kommatos-Bluthenthal long lost twin..), and are not considered NT material nowadays at best and a joke amongst most Greek users i read here at the worst-and still will be a part of our NT for their entire career unless injured.

(because club-wise I really don't think that Greek A1 is at the moment much stronger than Israeli league,only we have 2 Euroleague contenders and you have one).I can't guess an explanation about that,maybe you don't spend enough money in academies,I don't know.

Like Greece, Israel has a limited of potential top team powerhouses.
In here the situation is like that:"our" Olympiacos is in the 3rd division, the teams fans started a team from scratch and will merge with the original disbanded team taking its name and titled from next season at the 2nd division. Of course our SEF never materialized and built, our Papastrateio was recently demolished for no good reason adding to that never having our own Socratis Kokkalis to save both departments at the 90's. Ill always wondered what was olympiacos state before he came in terms of image at the public, fans share in Greece against other teams etc. AEK basketball was disbanded in the 80's after not being in the first division for more then a decade and wasn't revived. and PAOK are dominant in football over the last 20 years, but their bball section never made up its potential are are just now bouncing back, not posing a real challenge to the countries favorite team, who's football section sucks badly in the last ten years, humiliated time after time by the aforementioned OSFP. And who is the bball other title contender over the last 15 years that tries to dethrone PAO, with the rest looking from the side? Herakles...

On the other hand in Israel always shows up some super talent.It was Odded Katash in the late 90's and now Caspi.Let me tell you that we Greeks had no talent like Kattash back then.He was probably the most gifted guard of his generation,a real joy to watch,the new Sasha Djorjevic.But unfortunately right after winning the EL and been voted MVP of the final-4,his career ended violently.If Odded was more lucky,probably the history of Israeli basketball would be much,much different...Also another 2 of your strongest players last decade had a bunch of injury problems,Sheffer and later Burnstein.I really hope Caspi would be more lucky than them,you should really look after him like "the iris of your eye" as we use to say in Greece.Apart from that the only thing your federation has to do is to take a big body and invest money to practice him and make something good of him

One great talent that led his team and NT for basically nothing for a long period of time. On the other hand, the same Greeks that had no talent the likes of kattash were one of the dominant forces at the continent for virtually the entire 90's, undoubtedly the most dominant at the club scene. What do you reckon I should prefer?
BTW, this lack of players causes exactly that, summer after summer-it "grinds" our best players who career's are virtually over when they reach 30, plagued by injuries and no rest to their bodies

[the_black_planet]

all together with the fact that we have so few players in general, maybe the fewest of all countries with similar population and bball status.

Mate I didn't know about that and it's for sure a weird fact.What do you think caused this?I guess one main reason should be the big clubs not investing money in academies.It's really strange because you know tall people more than 2 meters height cannot follow another sport.It's more common guys around 1,90 meters prefer basketball to volleyball or being goalkeepers in football.So I wonder...Also some other fact that I've noticed some years ago was that there were Israely players that were considered great talents but were really weak physically so they never developed to what they should,the biggest example is the well-known Tamir Goodman who was named "Jordan of the Jews" when playing in High School in USA but didn't manage even to become a strarter in Isreali league!I don't know maybe he also had some injuries.Another example is Puppy Torgeman,he was considered a hero for Hapoel Jerusalem and he obviously got the game but he was like a feather in terms of strenght.About the big guys I remember Amit Tamir,he had a good season with Hapoel Jerusalem before going to play in NCAA,I watched him in a game against olympiakos and he looked quite capable to score inside.Then when I watched him again playing for paok after returning from USA,the only thing he did was shooting 3-pointers...He was doing it with amazing consistency back then,after that he didn't show even this and he got lost...Also if you don't mind I want to ask you about a couple of players that I've never watched but are having a very nice career and I wonder why they never played for the NT.The first one is Gil Mossinson,he always had very good numbers and judging by them I guess he is a good slasher and maybe he can score inside too,because he has very good percentage in 2-pointers.Can he play any 4?Also what about Afik Nissim?He has great numbers in Italian Legadue which is not a weak league at all,and I had really never heard of him,only this years I noticed him and when I read that he is Isreali I thought that is very weird not been quite known and not playing in NT...

To think that Greece can manage without players the likes of koufos ( even semi retired Tsakalidis..),

Yes you are right about that but only regarding the bodies,especially Koufos is a very good example that Greek players(even if he has grown up in America and that's the strange stuff) are not working enough and don't develop in what they could...

[ArnoldPettybone]

Mate I didn't know about that and it's for sure a weird fact.What do you think caused this?I guess one main reason should be the big clubs not investing money in academies.It's really strange because you know tall people more than 2 meters height cannot follow another sport.It's more common guys around 1,90 meters prefer basketball to volleyball or being goalkeepers in football

That's common knowledge. The typical Israeli youth team consists of a 6'7'' center (at best) 6'5'' forwards (again, at best) and 6 and change feet guards. Most of them don't even move up to the pro level, or usually get a semi-pro or de-facto amateur spot the 3rd division (below that is amateur. If you play there it probably means your a retired 30+ former player that plays for fun, or you should get another day job) or at best a spot at the 2nd league. Most youth stars of the last couple of years are exactly like that-
they play well (a league they should dominate) there but they get their chance at the super league it just looks like they hit a wall they cant pass. Anton Shutvin ( a 6'7'' with no small forward game) and Sean Daniel (6'6'' small forward who cant dribble) are the current examples of that.
Above that, the real stars of every generation are at best the start of a good euroleague team-depends on how good the foreign players are to determine how good the team is. Usually it just one, with his sidekicks on the national team also sidekicks in maccabi, hence-not good enough to lead a team to the Euroleague level as team leaders.
That's the Israeli bball player pyramid-short at all ends, base and top.

You are also wrong about preferring bball over other sport. There are ones does the opposite, there is a 6'11 center playing in the 2nd league who played volleyball and started with bball very late, I don't think hes the only one

the biggest example is the well-known Tamir Goodman who was named "Jordan of the Jews" when playing in High School in USA but didn't manage even to become a strarter in Isreali league!I don't know maybe he also had some injuries.Another example is Puppy Torgeman,he was considered a hero for Hapoel Jerusalem and he obviously got the game but he was like a feather in terms of strenght.About the big guys I remember Amit Tamir,he had a good season with Hapoel Jerusalem before going to play in NCAA,I watched him in a game against olympiakos and he looked quite capable to score inside.Then when I watched him again playing for paok after returning from USA,the only thing he did was shooting 3-pointers...He was doing it with amazing consistency back then,after that he didn't show even this and he got lost...Also if you don't mind I want to ask you about a couple of players that I've never watched but are having a very nice career and I wonder why they never played for the NT.The first one is Gil Mossinson,he always had very good numbers and judging by them I guess he is a good slasher and maybe he can score inside too,because he has very good percentage in 2-pointers.Can he play any 4?Also what about Afik Nissim?He has great numbers in Italian Legadue which is not a weak league at all,and I had really never heard of him,only this years I noticed him and when I read that he is Isreali I thought that is very weird not been quite known and not playing in NT...

1.First of all, the entire Jewish Jordan thing was a real bluff and anybody who understand bball and followed him at the time knew it. wasn't a surprise.
2.Amit Tamir never had a different game. All outside game and mid range/3pt shot, nothing more.
3.Gil Mossinson at best could have been a (very) poor man's Andrei Kirilenko. Which is not bad unless you've got your head wired wrong and FUBARD beyond all recognition. He sat out two years when he was young due to a dubious injury that would keep any other players out for maybe six months. That happens when you don't really care about your profession and start venturing for other directions at a young age.
4.Nissim never really took a team to the next level by himself.
I wanted him at my team when Dror Hajaj was already at his place at the time but I changed my mind very quickly when the first stayed put and the other skyrocketed from obscurity to the national team ranks in no time. Talent is not enough, as always.

[Czarkazem13]

Black Planet:

(echoing ArnoldPettybone)

Tamir Goodman: Was all hype because he was an Orthodox Jew. Sure he had a good shot, good handle and great hops, but he was rail-thin with no muscle. Not to mention basketball wasn’t his top priority. Between injuries and a coach throwing a chair at him at Towson, his career has definitely been a bust.

Gil Mozinson: He reminds of Izik Ohanon. So much potential, so many gifts…so many disappointment. Itai Lev…

Afik Nissim: Not sure what to make of him, not sure why (or if) he’s isn’t perused by Israel teams (like Dan Grunfeld) – if he even wants to play in Israel.

[the_black_planet]

Thank you aaaaaall guys for your nice info!Dan Grunfeld is Israeli too?Didn't know that.I haven't watched him but a player with good bio in the ACB league can't be bad for the Isreali NT don't you think???

[Czarkazem13]

Thank you aaaaaall guys for your nice info!Dan Grunfeld is Israeli too?Didn't know that.I haven't watched him but a player with good bio in the ACB league can't be bad for the Isreali NT don't you think???

Dan Grunfeld isn't Israel, but a U.S. Jew with the option of becoming an Israeli (like Scheyer and Landesberg), though I believe that he either got or was rumored to have gotten or getting a Romanian passport (his dad - Ernie - was from Romanian).