Franz Wagner Thread

[Toruko]

Most of the top rookies teams are trash teams That's why they have top picks. Only Cavaliers is surprise standing 5th in East, but that's more like RS thing I think.

We'll see, either super role player, or even something more. I think he has an upside of a star in the league.

There's no one obvious best rookie this season, but I bunch of really good rookies. I like Wagner, Mobley, Giddey, Sengun the most. And Giddey is my favorite from the bunch, most fun to watch and in a long run may be most impactful as tall PG prodigy.

His ball handling skills are more than crappy. He is fast but he doesnt have to deal with defenses, I dont buy his shots. They are mostly uncontested and totally free and look very awkward.

The good is he had a growing push with 20 years old which is really surprising. He looks around 6'11 and has a great feel for team defenses, his pick and roll defense as well as help defenses look awesome but offense is still more than questionable. Scottie Barnes as a two way wing is very special and Mobley

Giddey and Sengün seem ok.

Green has been underperforming but he takes also stupidly tough shots but still has the tools for being the best scorer in the league but he also could end up like the next Westbrook.

Suggs sucks.

No need to get overhyped because of Franz. His playing time will decrease and usage too if Fultz and the others come back.

[Straight forward]

His ball handling skills are more than crappy. He is fast but he doesnt have to deal with defenses, I dont buy his shots. They are mostly uncontested and totally free and look very awkward.

The good is he had a growing push with 20 years old which is really surprising. He looks around 6'11 and has a great feel for team defenses, his pick and roll defense as well as help defenses look awesome but offense is still more than questionable. Scottie Barnes as a two way wing is very special and Mobley

Giddey and Sengün seem ok.

Green has been underperforming but he takes also stupidly tough shots but still has the tools for being the best scorer in the league but he also could end up like the next Westbrook.

Suggs sucks.

No need to get overhyped because of Franz. His playing time will decrease and usage too if Fultz and the others come back.

Crappy is surely exaggeration. Not super smooth, but it works. He gets were he wants and he can still improve it. Shot, yeah, it's not pretty, but it goes down, 37% is really good and he's a good FT shooter. So if it works, it works. Won't be a good shooter, but solid seems like written into a stone. Lately he has been making a huge strides froward, he was getting more ISO action, more facilitating and ect.

Franz is one of the best European prospects nevertheless. That's the fact. As well as Sengun.

How would you rank best European prospects overall? Both EL and NBA or else.

[Toruko]

Crappy is surely exaggeration. Not super smooth, but it works. He gets were he wants and he can still improve it. Shot, yeah, it's not pretty, but it goes down, 37% is really good and he's a good FT shooter. So if it works, it works. Won't be a good shooter, but solid seems like written into a stone. Lately he has been making a huge strides froward, he was getting more ISO action, more facilitating and ect.

Franz is one of the best European prospects nevertheless. That's the fact. As well as Sengun.

How would you rank best European prospects overall? Both EL and NBA or else.

He uses just his strong hand and this makes him very predictable but due to his speed and ok footwork he kinda creates his shots but I dont see anything special on offense. The shot percentage will decrease in FIBA games for sure, a little bit more contest and they wont fall but he is a great cutter that must be said.

Petrusev cant even dream of playing in the NBA. His defense is total trash, it is really and his offense wont work in the NBA to survive there. Actually I am even not sure about EL for a contesting team.

Garuba doesnt look very happy about his role in Houston. Will need some time but has too good tools on the defensive end. If his shot comes around somewhere he will be a good poor mans Dreymond Green (in the best case).

My thoughts about Jokubaitis changed positively. I think that in some years he can be a play maker for a playoff team or a starter with a rebuilding team but it would be better for him to stay in Europe and have a good career.

Sengün and Franz are the most ready and the best player in this draft class among europeans. Franz is even more ready right now. Sengün has clearly the higher ceiling but his body is not ready at all right now and he must learn to defend and get used to the speed.

So I would say ceilingwise:

Sengün
Wagner
Jokubaitis / Garuba
Yurtseven
Petrusev

Overall not the strongest European draft.

[Straight forward]

He uses just his strong hand and this makes him very predictable but due to his speed and ok footwork he kinda creates his shots but I dont see anything special on offense. The shot percentage will decrease in FIBA games for sure, a little bit more contest and they wont fall but he is a great cutter that must be said.

Petrusev cant even dream of playing in the NBA. His defense is total trash, it is really and his offense wont work in the NBA to survive there. Actually I am even not sure about EL for a contesting team.

Garuba doesnt look very happy about his role in Houston. Will need some time but has too good tools on the defensive end. If his shot comes around somewhere he will be a good poor mans Dreymond Green (in the best case).

My thoughts about Jokubaitis changed positively. I think that in some years he can be a play maker for a playoff team or a starter with a rebuilding team but it would be better for him to stay in Europe and have a good career.

Sengün and Franz are the most ready and the best player in this draft class among europeans. Franz is even more ready right now. Sengün has clearly the higher ceiling but his body is not ready at all right now and he must learn to defend and get used to the speed.

So I would say ceilingwise:

Sengün
Wagner
Jokubaitis / Garuba
Yurtseven
Petrusev

Overall not the strongest European draft.

Well I agree about many things. And, yeah, Franz might be much less effective in FIBA than NBA, but If he can knock down shots from three it will be different story than with Giannis (at least thus far). Also Sengun as well most likely be much worse in FIBA than in NBA (we already discussed), but we'll see. Actually from the bunch, Jokubaitis might be the most impactful piece in FIBA as FIBA is ultimate guards competition. Players as Patty Mills (solid NBA player at best) is superstar in FIBA.

Including Yurtseven is funny though IMO, Petrusev has way higher upside and I would even think Santi Aldama, J. Begarin and Kalaitzakis have bigger upside than traditional limited lad Yurtseven.

I was actually asking much more difficult question. Like what are fundamentally best European prospects overall? From what I've seen I would make such shot (under 22, so leaving obvious king Luka aside). In the perspective of NBA lets say:

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Paolo Banchero
3. Matas Buzelis
4. Nikola Jovic
5. Alperen Sengun
5. Franz Wagner
6. Rokas Jokubaitis
7. Aleksej Pokusevski

(...)

Difficult task, but something like that, IMO...

[Toruko]

Well I agree about many things. And, yeah, Franz might be much less effective in FIBA than NBA, but If he can knock down shots from three it will be different story than with Giannis (at least thus far). Also Sengun as well most likely be much worse in FIBA than in NBA (we already discussed), but we'll see. Actually from the bunch, Jokubaitis might be the most impactful piece in FIBA as FIBA is ultimate guards competition. Players as Patty Mills (solid NBA player at best) is superstar in FIBA.

Including Yurtseven is funny though IMO, Petrusev has way higher upside and I would even think Santi Aldama, J. Begarin and Kalaitzakis have bigger upside than traditional limited lad Yurtseven.

I was actually asking much more difficult question. Like what are fundamentally best European prospects overall? From what I've seen I would make such shot (under 22, so leaving obvious king Luka aside). In the perspective of NBA lets say:

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Paolo Banchero
3. Matas Buzelis
4. Nikola Jovic
5. Alperen Sengun
5. Franz Wagner
6. Rokas Jokubaitis
7. Aleksej Pokusevski

(...)

Difficult task, but something like that, IMO...

Oh you meant all the European prospects also from the future? I just took the 2021 rookies into account.

Kalaitzakis showed nowhere nothing and he doesnt have any game that could be taken seriously. Being 22 he is anxious, he cant see much and overexcited in all his doings and I forgot about Aldama, yeah you are right. He hasnt shown much so far but he is definitely more versatile than Yurt but Yurt was not meant to be taking part in the NBA in any way so he is slow and has some deficiencies but he is using his chances in a very difficult position fully and he is developing greatly. I remember our discussion and that you wrote he showed less than some Lithuanians and I am surprised about his season by myself. Working with Udonis Haslem lead to a great outcome. I dont see him in front of Dedmon but he is doing fine.

[Straight forward]

Oh you meant all the European prospects also from the future? I just took the 2021 rookies into account.

Kalaitzakis showed nowhere nothing and he doesnt have any game that could be taken seriously. Being 22 he is anxious, he cant see much and overexcited in all his doings and I forgot about Aldama, yeah you are right. He hasnt shown much so far but he is definitely more versatile than Yurt but Yurt was not meant to be taking part in the NBA in any way so he is slow and has some deficiencies but he is using his chances in a very difficult position fully and he is developing greatly. I remember our discussion and that you wrote he showed less than some Lithuanians and I am surprised about his season by myself. Working with Udonis Haslem lead to a great outcome. I dont see him in front of Dedmon but he is doing fine.

I didn't see Yurt much, so what the hell.

So how would you rank best Euro prospects overall?

[Toruko]

So how would you rank best Euro prospects overall?

You are asking questions. This is an impossible job. Where should I start and where should I end. I could write some names who will probably land in the NBA but thats all.

So lets collect some names.

Serbia:
2003
Vukcevic (dont see much NBA upside but hell get drafted)
Jovic (solid first round pick, shot is a question mark)
2004
Djurisic (solid first round pick, great shot creating abilities but too early)

Lithuania
2002
Azuolas Tubelis (early to mid second round guy, looks like a good bench piece to me)
2004
maybe Murauskas in the second round but doesnt have fire in him and gets injured too often

Spain
2004
Juan Nunez (second round guy, too early)
I dont have a clue about later guys

France just too many potential guys but
2002
Dieng
Diabatte
2004
Wembanyama

Germany
2002
Hukporti (in fact a very interesting guy, versatile but an injury prone and TO prone, steal potential)
2007
Declan Duru

Russia
2000
NIKITA MIKHAILOVSKY?
2006
Egor Demin (next high prospect from russia)

Greece
2003
Elefteros Mantzoukas (maybe)

Turkey
2003
Adem Bona (solid first round pick, capable defender, limited offense)
2004
Berke Buyuktuncel (multiple position defender, great shooter, swing factor ability to create shots) Has no explosiveness or athleticism most likely a second round guy but should stay in Europe
2006
Demir Dogan (Shooting and awareness is a question mark right now but he is made for the NBA and will be a solid first rounder)

Italy
2002
Paolo Banchero (star potential)
2003
Matteo Spagnolo


The guys I like the most and trust them to have a good NBA carrier are
Paolo Banchero
Demir Dogan
Egor Demin
Declan Duru
Ousmane Dieng
Adem Bona
Ariel Hukporti

[Straight forward]

Huge European talent, IMO, and will leave a mark into FIBA Euro ball history as well

I've seen it coming. Franz already out there making a name for himself.

[Nemanja95]

One of rare players,whom I enjoy to watch. I remember him from Alba's season final of Eurocup, he was 17-18 years old, he looked talented player who has long road in the frount of himself. When he went on colelge, many thought including me it's not really good decision. From this point of view, probably was good. He now in 21, leads the his nt until medal or even to gold medal. Beside so much popularized by media Antetokounmpo, Jokic and Doncic, he came from second level nut nothing worse didn't play.

[govew10879]

These Dramas are very enjoyable to watch. They offer a lot of action and drama, which makes them extremely exciting. The plots are also very well written, so you can't help but get involved in the storyline. Please continue watching https://doramasmp4.me/ and enjoy them as much as I do!

[Ridirkulous]

His ball handling skills are more than crappy. He is fast but he doesnt have to deal with defenses, I dont buy his shots. They are mostly uncontested and totally free and look very awkward.

The good is he had a growing push with 20 years old which is really surprising. He looks around 6'11 and has a great feel for team defenses, his pick and roll defense as well as help defenses look awesome but offense is still more than questionable. Scottie Barnes as a two way wing is very special and Mobley

Giddey and Sengün seem ok.

Green has been underperforming but he takes also stupidly tough shots but still has the tools for being the best scorer in the league but he also could end up like the next Westbrook.

Suggs sucks.

No need to get overhyped because of Franz. His playing time will decrease and usage too if Fultz and the others come back.

Boy did this age badly.

[Straight forward]

The precious part of handling the ball is either creating for yourself or for others in the set offense. Is he that good. Not in 1000 years.

This one too

[Toruko]

I gladly admit that he over exceeded my expectations by far but this was what he had shown and my points were correct but you can never know how a guy develops. I dont buy his shots fully even right now but he will be in the big three of Orlando for sure. He even grew a bit more.

[RobertoEithan]

Great information, keep sharing such post, I will share this on bras with wide shoulder straps website wall.

[Straight forward]

Franz balling. Takes down Lakers with a big game-winner:

https://x.com/AhaanRungta/status/1859841247059566911