Grade your team (EL2022/23)

[Killer Bob]

Which Euro PGs went directly to NBA recently? Hayes, Maledon, Bolmaro (Argentinian though), Mannion (came back quickly). I think in terms of PG position NBA is pretty hesitant to absorb Euro talents. Usually it's draft and stash situation at worst (Jokubaitis). I think those quality EL PGs who may become elite material for this league one day are fringe NBA material at best. We do know Jasikevicius, Teo, Spanoulis choked in the NBA. So I think NBA is not a problem when it comes to PGs. Forwards, bigs yes...All elite goes directly to NBA...PGs....Nah...It's very hard to compete with more agile, athletic and more explosive Americans in colour in open NBA courts...Only outstanding PGs as Doncic, Dragic make it...

Things changed a lot from those Spanoulis times. Even old, big smoker Teo, had 1 solid year in Nba. He just went too late there. Problem now is that Europe is not producing real talent on Pg anymore. If you're not good enough to be starting Pg in Euroleague with 23 years, you for sure can't expect much in Nba with 19.

[Straight forward]

Things changed a lot from those Spanoulis times. Even old, big smoker Teo, had 1 solid year in Nba. He just went too late there. Problem now is that Europe is not producing real talent on Pg anymore. If you're not good enough to be starting Pg in Euroleague with 23 years, you for sure can't expect much in Nba with 19.

For NBA maybe yes...

For EL there's material coming...

[Killer Bob]

For NBA maybe yes...

For EL there's material coming...

I agree there, for this historical bad Euroleague, they will fit well. But don't be surprised if 3rd string Americans will run this Euroleague in the future.

[Jazz]

Which Euro PGs went directly to NBA recently? Hayes, Maledon, Bolmaro (Argentinian though), Mannion (came back quickly). I think in terms of PG position NBA is pretty hesitant to absorb Euro talents. Usually it's draft and stash situation at worst (Jokubaitis). I think those quality EL PGs who may become elite material for this league one day are fringe NBA material at best. We do know Jasikevicius, Teo, Spanoulis choked in the NBA. So I think NBA is not a problem when it comes to PGs. Forwards, bigs yes...All elite goes directly to NBA...PGs....Nah...It's very hard to compete with more agile, athletic and more explosive Americans in colour in open NBA courts...Only outstanding PGs as Doncic, Dragic make it...

I don't think Teodosic choked in the NBA at all. The Clippers were immeasurably better offensively when he was on the floor. We know his issues with defense that were always there but by the time he went to the NBA he was injury prone. He had been playing summer after summer with the Serbia NT so was pretty worn down physically by the time he was 30. And as we know, he was never the best conditioned athlete.
Plus the Clippers were in transition when he was there. The lob City era had ended and halfway through the regular season they traded Blake Griffin, who was supposed to be the cornerstone of the franchise. And because of the team having so many injuries, there were quite a few G League players (CJ Williams etc) playing major minutes that season, so difficult to really build proper chemistry.
It was tough to watch the following season when Doc Rivers was often playing Beverley and Bradley as a duo with Teodosic stuck on the bench.

I think it's harsh on Spanoulis too. He was playing for a coach who didn't trust young players and wasn't given significant minutes to prove himself.

I would be interested in reading more on your perspective of Saras' time in the NBA.

[Straight forward]

Yes, but that's a little bit of excuses. Good offensively, but super bad defensively and injury prone and old and so on. Jasikevicius also had some bright moments, specially in the first 3-4 months with the Indiana Pacers. L. Bird as GM at that time believed in him. Main issue was that he couldn't create for himself basically and Indiana at that time didn't play much p'n'r, there was no bigs who knows how to do it at that time. Only later pick and roll became big part of NBA. Saras was p'n'r master and that was his best trait offensively. Later he couldn't even brake GSW rotation so he came back to Europe.

[Killer Bob]

Yes, but that's a little bit of excuses. Good offensively, but super bad defensively and injury prone and old and so on. Jasikevicius also had some bright moments, specially in the first 3-4 months with the Indiana Pacers. L. Bird as GM at that time believed in him. Main issue was that he couldn't create for himself basically and Indiana at that time didn't play much p'n'r, there was no bigs who knows how to do it at that time. Only later pick and roll became big part of NBA. Saras was p'n'r master and that was his best trait offensively. Later he couldn't even brake GSW rotation so he came back to Europe.

Teo was averaging solid 9.5 points and 4.6 assists with 38% for 3 in first year. And he had positive +/- and on/off. He doesn't need any excuses for those numbers. Going in Nba with 30 years is too late of course.

[tonia]

What actually makes a great European player excel (or not) in NBA? Is it all about skills or are there more factors (besides injury issues)?
For sure, it is best for a player to make the effort as soon as possible, but for example Arvydas Sabonis went to Blazers when he was 31.
I'm wondering how come De Colo didn't excel with the Spurs, playing with Diaw and Parker.

[Killer Bob]

What actually makes a great European player excel (or not) in NBA? Is it all about skills or are there more factors (besides injury issues)?
For sure, it is best for a player to make the effort as soon as possible, but for example Arvydas Sabonis went to Blazers when he was 31.
I'm wondering how come De Colo didn't excel with the Spurs, playing with Diaw and Parker.

Sabonis in prime was on Jokic level. Bigger, better athlete, but not similarly good passer. Jokic better in offense, but Sabonis was pretty good too. Sabonis better defender. That's why he could play in Nba without knees.

[paspalj]

My two cents:

Unless you are a magician like Luka or Jokic, you need supreme athletic ability to thrive and survive in the NBA. You can be a good basketball player but the season is grueling. You can’t afford not to be in great condition, you’ll just break down.

[Killer Bob]

My two cents:

Unless you are a magician like Luka or Jokic, you need supreme athletic ability to thrive and survive in the NBA. You can be a good basketball player but the season is grueling. You can’t afford not to be in great condition, you’ll just break down.

...and have at least one exceptional skill, if you want to be a starter. Nba is not looking for players like Micic, they want superstars or players that can complement those stars, mainly in D and shooting. With new CBA, teams with multiple max. players, like Warriors, will be almost impossible to build. Future is 1 or 2 stars, surrounded with not too expensive 3&D players. Europe don't have that profile of players.

[paspalj]

...and have at least one exceptional skill, if you want to be a starter. Nba is not looking for players like Micic, they want superstars or players that can complement those stars, mainly in D and shooting. With new CBA, teams with multiple max. players, like Warriors, will be almost impossible to build. Future is 1 or 2 stars, surrounded with not too expensive 3&D players. Europe don't have that profile of players.

I agree. Exceptional shooters or exceptional defenders (or both in the optimal case) will always find a spot surrounding the superstars of each team. Superstars are usually ball dominant inside scorers so they need a team around them will help them with spacing. A guy like Stojakovic would still be a significant contributor in the NBA imo.

[Straight forward]

...and have at least one exceptional skill, if you want to be a starter. Nba is not looking for players like Micic, they want superstars or players that can complement those stars, mainly in D and shooting. With new CBA, teams with multiple max. players, like Warriors, will be almost impossible to build. Future is 1 or 2 stars, surrounded with not too expensive 3&D players. Europe don't have that profile of players.

Which profiles? Superstars or 3 and D? Recently superstars in NBA are Europeans - Jokic, Doncic, Giannis. There's a good chance, basically inevitable that Wemby will be another one. Close to that may be Franz Wagner, Banchero and Matas Buzelis (latter 2 grew up in the states though). So that breed is visible and possible.

3 and D? Defense side may be a bit more complicated for Europeans somehow. Plenty of guys who are versatile forwards or bigs offensively.

[Killer Bob]

Which profiles? Superstars or 3 and D? Recently superstars in NBA are Europeans - Jokic, Doncic, Giannis. There's a good chance, basically inevitable that Wemby will be another one. Close to that may be Franz Wagner, Banchero and Matas Buzelis (latter 2 grew up in the states though). So that breed is visible and possible.

3 and D? Defense side may be a bit more complicated for Europeans somehow. Plenty of guys who are versatile forwards or bigs offensively.

3&D, with emphasis on D.

Wembanyama can be one of best ever or just a little better KP, depends how his body will hold. Normally that big and stretched players don't have long and healthy careers.

[Killer Bob]

I agree. Exceptional shooters or exceptional defenders (or both in the optimal case) will always find a spot surrounding the superstars of each team. Superstars are usually ball dominant inside scorers so they need a team around them will help them with spacing. A guy like Stojakovic would still be a significant contributor in the NBA imo.

It looks to me that main target nowadays, for teams that already have 1 or 2 superstars are exceptional defenders, who can hit open shots.

[Killer Bob]

Itoudis was well aware of Calathes' limitations before he signed him but they are having a very solid season with him as their PG. Have you checked the result of the Fener - Efes game played last night?

Have you checked result of the series and how Calathes played?